You know what would be wonderful? If when this is all over, most, if not all of the people involved [I]learn their bloody lesson[/I]. I don't want these people to go to prison and go even further off the deep end, I just want the gaming industry to be better for everybody. I'm happy for games like Depression Quest to exist- and in fact, I welcome them- but I think that demanding that all of a certain type of art conform to your own personal standards of what is 'right' is utterly ridiculous.
Games [I]are[/I] art because they are a way of expression, just like films or books. They can be almost anything imaginable, they can have a deep message or they might not, they can be about the causes of institutionalised racism or they can be about a chubby Italian plumber jumping on the heads of turtles. I enjoy the fact that people push the boundaries of what a game truly is, because the broader the scope of an art form, the more people will enjoy it.
But we don't need to censor them. Censoring art is bad- criticising, good, but censorship is most certainly bad. Anybody who makes a truly disagreeable game will be laughed- or kicked- out of the industry. I envisage a brighter future- not a perfect one, obviously, but a brighter one- where critics are just that, critics, not the voice to whom one must always listen. Roger Ebert was respected but he liked many shit films and despised many cult classics.
I'm glad that things [I]like[/I] Feminist Frequency exist because it's okay to ask questions about why exactly something is there- that's what people spend their English classes doing, after all. But again, what I'm not happy about is the fact that Feminist Frequency is poorly researched and pseudoscientific to the point of being almost, if not entirely, non-credible. But what I can do is imagine a future where people make the games they want, and the reviewers give those games the scores they want to give, and the customers buy the games because they [I]want to[/I]. That's what gaming has always been about, and that's what I want it to be about.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46565303][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2nb3hw/important_update_the_ftc_heard_our_complaints/[/url][/QUOTE]
Love that bit about gg being the worst hate group in history.
[QUOTE=V12US;46565193]Gamergate will eventually be successful, simply because it's opponents do nothing but attack strawmen and vilify the movement, while the issue that caused Gamergate to happen in the first place remains.
Considering Gamergate is a massive group of people, vilification has no effect whatsoever. No gamer is going to be truly upset when some twittertwat calls for gamergaters to be thrown into a volcano. It only serves to underline the hypocrisy of their "we're against harassment" narrative.
Basically all Gamergate has to do is repeat its messages to anyone willing to listen. "Anti-gamergate" pretty much defeats itself.[/QUOTE]
I would like to add how different the two camps react if their side pulls some shady stuff.
Remember how people on the gamergate side denounce any sort of doxxing at all? Main example was when some unknown people started a board to spread doxxes of anti-GG people. The GG side then spent the next few hours spamming that board under, and thereby removing the doxxing information before the board got nuked altogether. In short, pretty much everyone on the GG side agrees on that doxxing is pretty much criminal, and should be always denounced. The actions of a nameless Anon should not sully the entire movement.
And then we have the Anti-GG side. Randi Harper, known for that blacklist from yesterday, leaked someone's private e-mail from that list. It was pretty much doxxing. What does the Anti-GG side do? [I]They applauded it for standing up to the evil misogynerd who obliviously had it coming. [/I] What the absolute fuck is wrong with these people? If the roles were reserved, they would cry against the media again about harassment. They are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.
Although I am glad that people are taking note of Anti-GG's misbehavior over the last few weeks. That IGDA blacklist surely got us more attention from people, especially how badly IGDA handled it.
I hope that people are going to start asking questions on why none of those gaming/tech sites are picking up on this scandal, given the public outrage it has caused.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;46564420]So this is all awesome to know and stuff, but exactly how long would it take for this to actually happen?[/QUOTE]
I think we're slowly seeing the beginning of it, but it's probably going to be very slow and gradual.
A lot of people seem to be quite fed up with the more extreme aspects of political correctness/feminism already, but I assume this could be a filter bubble for me.
It has gotten to the point where the constant vilification directed towards the people of gamergate only strenghten their resolve.
I know they won't ever stop, and that's why, in the end, we are going to prevail.
It will take time, but we will keep going no matter what.
Developers who feared the consequences are starting to speak up in our support, and the neutrals and moderates are finally seeing the true colors of the opposition. It's only a matter of time now.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46564684]roberto rosario (IDGA dude that threatened to resign) talks about the IDGA's "Imperfect tools" and makes a harassment reporter app in the process.
[URL]http://blog.robertorosario.com/imperfect-tools/[/URL]
you can see his app here:
[url]https://github.com/Cleisthenes/cleisthenes[/url][/QUOTE]
From what he writes and the comments he upvoted I'm fairly confident he'll manage to create something good.
The main issue with things like this is filtering out disagreement, but if he can prominently show the attached evidence then I think it may be mitigated.
Unfortunately, the ideal form for a tool like this also would turn it into a public dictionary of dirty laundry. Maybe there's a way to make it [I]not quite[/I] searchable so it only shows the information when needed, but that's not necessarily a good thing either.
Making it not browseable is probably a very good idea though.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46565303][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2nb3hw/important_update_the_ftc_heard_our_complaints/[/url][/QUOTE]
Update from the Ralph Retort: [URL="http://theralphretort.com/reports-gamergate-helps-achieve-historic-win-internet-ethics/"]The FTC Email has been confirmed legit.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jordax;46565715][...]
And then we have the Anti-GG side. Randi Harper, known for that blacklist from yesterday, leaked someone's private e-mail from that list. It was pretty much doxxing. What does the Anti-GG side do? [I]They applauded it for standing up to the evil misogynerd who obliviously had it coming. [/I] What the absolute fuck is wrong with these people? If the roles were reserved, they would cry against the media again about harassment. They are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.
[...][/QUOTE]
Something to note: Quinn actually opposes this kind of stuff fairly consistently.
I'm not too sure about her reasons but I've seen her ask others to not post doxx on a few occasions now.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46564472]Its interesting that both Wikileaks and OWS support GG. Both are largely leftist bodies, with room for and appeal to extreme leftists, including many who AGG would ostensibly consider on their side.[/QUOTE]
Occupy and Wikileaks are pure leftist, AGG is just made up of social conservatives.
People seem to forget that social conservatives are a thing in this country because they tend to think of typical Republicans when you use the word 'conservative'.
[editline]24th November 2014[/editline]
Most people don't realize exactly how red our country really is. The Democratic party of the US is almost entirely composed of social conservatives, with a few prominent liberals in between. They're more leftist than Republicans, sure, but they're certainly no liberals.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;46567033]Something to note: Quinn actually opposes this kind of stuff fairly consistently.
I'm not too sure about her reasons but I've seen her ask others to not post doxx on a few occasions now.[/QUOTE]
Allegedly she's an fbi informant at this point and may want to keep a leash on the others.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46567303][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3QU7eFIIAErTw4.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry for this, but does anyone have an actual solid link to someone saying no video games allowed for women?
I'm honestly confused as to where so much of these assumptions are coming from...
[QUOTE=01271;46567336]Allegedly she's an fbi informant at this point and may want to keep a leash on the others.[/QUOTE]
on what grounds would she ever be an fbi informant, even if its "alleged"
[QUOTE=MasterKade;46567397]I'm honestly confused as to where so much of these assumptions are coming from...[/QUOTE]
Their asses.
[QUOTE=MasterKade;46567397]I'm sorry for this, but does anyone have an actual solid link to someone saying no video games allowed for women?
I'm honestly confused as to where so much of these assumptions are coming from...[/QUOTE]
No you're not, these people don't believe this anymore than you do, it's bait, pure and simple for alexander and kuchera and the like to compile boohoo reports for MSNBC to file.
[editline]25th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=LeonS;46567426]on what grounds would she ever be an fbi informant, even if its "alleged"[/QUOTE]
Internet hate crimes are a federal offense, so is racketeering.
wouldnt that make her an fbi suspect then, or has she convinced them shes innocent in all this
[QUOTE=LeonS;46567481]wouldnt that make her an fbi suspect then, or has she convinced them shes innocent in all this[/QUOTE]
She has connections in the indie scene. It's possible she sent one of the threats to herself and the FBI know and are holding it over her. Could've offered her a deal for more info on stuff. Such as the IGF award rigging stuff.
That's all speculation though. Nothing much more came from that supposed leak even though several people said they verified the credentials.
[QUOTE=LeonS;46567426]on what grounds would she ever be an fbi informant, even if its "alleged"[/QUOTE]
I think it was either Cernavich or Campbell that posted that the FBI was somehow involved and had turned some people into informants. He also suggested that FOIA requests be sent in, but those take forever because regular gubermant bureaucracy.
Zoe seems like the type that would do anything to save her skin if push came to shove. I wouldn't be surprised if she was an FBI informant.
I really really doubt that she's an fbi informant lol
[QUOTE=Ziron;46567656]Zoe seems like the type that would do anything to save her skin if push came to shove. I wouldn't be surprised if she was an FBI informant.[/QUOTE]
If true, nothing more need be said about the character of a rather large chunk if AGG... hopefully those with legit grievances have been scrupulously honest.
[QUOTE=Jordax;46565715]I would like to add how different the two camps react if their side pulls some shady stuff.
Remember how people on the gamergate side denounce any sort of doxxing at all? Main example was when some unknown people started a board to spread doxxes of anti-GG people. The GG side then spent the next few hours spamming that board under, and thereby removing the doxxing information before the board got nuked altogether. In short, pretty much everyone on the GG side agrees on that doxxing is pretty much criminal, and should be always denounced. The actions of a nameless Anon should not sully the entire movement.
And then we have the Anti-GG side. Randi Harper, known for that blacklist from yesterday, leaked someone's private e-mail from that list. It was pretty much doxxing. What does the Anti-GG side do? [I]They applauded it for standing up to the evil misogynerd who obliviously had it coming. [/I] What the absolute fuck is wrong with these people? If the roles were reserved, they would cry against the media again about harassment. They are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.
Although I am glad that people are taking note of Anti-GG's misbehavior over the last few weeks. That IGDA blacklist surely got us more attention from people, especially how badly IGDA handled it.
I hope that people are going to start asking questions on why none of those gaming/tech sites are picking up on this scandal, given the public outrage it has caused.[/QUOTE]
When KoP posted the Nick Denton stuff and GG supporters found out it was fake the shitstorm was unlike anything I've ever seen. What he did was completely unacceptable and the people clearly were not OK with it.
Meanwhile Brianna Wu fakes her doxxing and people celebrate her as a hero for making fools of everyone, including MSM and even themselves.
As usual when it comes to GG/AGG it boils down to Facts vs. Feelz.
[QUOTE=27X;46567692]If true, nothing more need be said about the character of a rather large chunk if AGG... hopefully with legit grievances have been scrupulously honest.[/QUOTE]
They are all informants, all calling eachother out but to many government agencies not talking to one another.
Or she has just realized that doxing people left and right isn't actually helping and just getting them deeper into shit.
[QUOTE=T-hunter;46567903]Or she has just realized that doxing people left and right isn't actually helping and just getting them deeper into shit.[/QUOTE]
I think she realizes that if she gets caught once again with doxxing (as she was complicit in the TYFC dox shit), then shit will really go down.
[QUOTE=DuCT;46567969]I think she realizes that if she gets caught once again with doxxing (as she was complicit in the TYFC dox shit), then shit will really go down.[/QUOTE]
Pending civil suits have a way of doing that. *mysterious finger wiggling*
[QUOTE=Ithon;46567812]They are all informants, all calling eachother out but to many government agencies not talking to one another.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/aN2V6.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=MasterKade;46567397]I'm sorry for this, but does anyone have an actual solid link to someone saying no video games allowed for women?
I'm honestly confused as to where so much of these assumptions are coming from...[/QUOTE]
Echochambers.
