Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=MasterKade;46635691]I actually hadn't heard of Stardock before this thread Thanks MJ, I guess[/QUOTE] Galactic Civ and Sins of a Solar Empire are some p good games if you like 4x and RTS.

Okay, so I've posted a few times in here, and now I need to vent. My girlfriend and I both went to college to study game design and worked in the industry a while (a few AAA projects in minor programming positions, nothing to write home about) before switching to very different industries for different reasons. I've been watching this controversy from outside the industry, but a lot of the descriptions I've seen of cliquishness really ring true with my experiences. Since Gamergate started I've been reserved, because I think a lot of the anti-SJW bent to GG is damaging to its core message, and some of the reactions I've seen strike me as overly extreme. I'm no radical SJW by any means; in the past I've had some heated arguments with Alex Lifschitz through my alma mater's game design community (he's a real prick IRL too, in case you were wondering), and I have a serious problem with social justice activists defending a sexual abuser and smearing her victim. At the same time, I still think the apparent consensus on the previous page regarding Sterling's tweet is unnecessarily harsh, and I don't think a woman being concerned about being trapped with a man in a secluded place is prejudice or sexism, but it's clear that you all disagree (and that's okay). It's not directly relevant to GG, I just want you to understand where I'm coming from. So while I care strongly about the games industry, and I've argued publicly that Gamergate is not about harassment and deserves to be taken seriously as a consumer movement (for which I've received death threats from anti-GGers, which is cool), I haven't really considered myself pro-Gamergate as much as anti-anti-Gamergate. I think the movement has done some good things, but the core call for ethics reform didn't seem very well focused, so when I've defended GG it's mostly been because the popular narrative is grossly inaccurate. But after watching Zoe Quinn call for blacklisting of Brad Wardell, actually calling for a developer to be harassed out of the industry over false accusations without the slightest bit of self-awareness as to how ironic that is, after seeing Kotaku and other publications supporting Target's ban on GTA, and noticing the total lack of press reporting of the recent FTC success, I've been starting to think that whatever misgivings I have about some of the social aspects of GG, you guys are not the ones I need to worry about censoring opinions. I'd rather give developers the freedom to make whatever they want than be beholden to the social views of reviewers, and that's leaving aside the clear ethical violations that have been going on. My last straw came from a message I got from my girlfriend last night explaining something that had happened yesterday, which she [url=http://np.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2o8k8g/i_thought_i_had_isolated_myself_from_thisguess_i/]posted to KiA[/url]. Long story short, she had a discussion with a friend about misogynistic harassment in the industry and said she had never been harassed or belittled for her gender, and defended Gamergate as a legitimate consumer movement. He told her that Facebook is not the appropriate venue for a discussion on GG, so they let it drop and she even apologized, but then she found that he posted this passive-aggressive, really fucking condescending message on Twitter: [quote]Being told by a woman that GamerGate isn't about the harassment of women is one of the saddest things.[/quote] Holy shit, really? She has gone to great lengths not to involve herself in the controversy, I don't try to convince her of my point of view nor drag her into my online arguments, and yet she [i]still[/i] ends up getting belitted for her gender- and it's by anti-Gamergate. Absolutely unreal. I feel like I'm too involved not to take a firm stance, and this kind of holier-than-thou, mother-knows-best hypocrisy really needs to stop. With the significant industry successes GG has had (the FTC thing is HUGE), and the increasing public support from game developers, I don't have a problem calling myself pro-GG. If you'd asked me back in September whether I thought it'd still be around by Christmas, I'd have been skeptical, but now I have no doubt that this is going to continue at least into next year, and the substantial impact GG has had on the industry has already validated it. So I'll end with this: The holiday season means a lot for publishers. How games sell around Christmas can make or break a company, especially a struggling one. Recent events have shown that the gaming community can buoy up a pro-GG developer, and that may encourage others to speak up to maximize sales for the holiday season. Know that the industry is not firmly one way or another, there are a lot of devs who are pro-GG but there are also a lot who are anti-GG, what matters to us as activists is how they express it publicly. So be careful about what you buy- Steam sales are always tempting, but it's important to send a clear message about who you're willing to support. If you like strategy games, consider Sins of a Solar Empire or Galactic Civilizations, as not only are they great games, but Stardock is pretty prominent in the controversy right now and would be a great leader for the rest of the industry to take a stand. Game studios follow the money, so if you show them that you're the ones with the power they'll side with you.

[QUOTE=catbarf;46636393]Okay, so I've posted a few times in here, and now I need to vent. My girlfriend and I both went to college to study game design and worked in the industry a while (a few AAA projects in minor programming positions, nothing to write home about) before switching to very different industries for different reasons. I've been watching this controversy from outside the industry, but a lot of the descriptions I've seen of cliquishness really ring true with my experiences. Since Gamergate started I've been reserved, because I think a lot of the anti-SJW bent to GG is damaging to its core message, and some of the reactions I've seen strike me as overly extreme. I'm no radical SJW by any means; in the past I've had some heated arguments with Alex Lifschitz through my alma mater's game design community (he's a real prick IRL too, in case you were wondering), and I have a serious problem with social justice activists defending a sexual abuser and smearing her victim. At the same time, I still think the apparent consensus on the previous page regarding Sterling's tweet is unnecessarily harsh, and I don't think a woman being concerned about being trapped with a man in a secluded place is prejudice or sexism, but it's clear that you all disagree (and that's okay). It's not directly relevant to GG, I just want you to understand where I'm coming from. So while I care strongly about the games industry, and I've argued publicly that Gamergate is not about harassment and deserves to be taken seriously as a consumer movement (for which I've received death threats from anti-GGers, which is cool), I haven't really considered myself pro-Gamergate as much as anti-anti-Gamergate. I think the movement has done some good things, but the core call for ethics reform didn't seem very well focused, so when I've defended GG it's mostly been because the popular narrative is grossly inaccurate. But after watching Zoe Quinn call for blacklisting of Brad Wardell, actually calling for a developer to be harassed out of the industry over false accusations without the slightest bit of self-awareness as to how ironic that is, after seeing Kotaku and other publications supporting Target's ban on GTA, and noticing the total lack of press reporting of the recent FTC success, I've been starting to think that whatever misgivings I have about some of the social aspects of GG, you guys are not the ones I need to worry about censoring opinions. I'd rather give developers the freedom to make whatever they want than be beholden to the social views of reviewers, and that's leaving aside the clear ethical violations that have been going on. My last straw came from a message I got from my girlfriend last night explaining something that had happened yesterday, which she [URL="http://np.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2o8k8g/i_thought_i_had_isolated_myself_from_thisguess_i/"]posted to KiA[/URL]. Long story short, she had a discussion with a friend about misogynistic harassment in the industry and said she had never been harassed or belittled for her gender, and defended Gamergate as a legitimate consumer movement. He told her that Facebook is not the appropriate venue for a discussion on GG, so they let it drop and she even apologized, but then she found that he posted this passive-aggressive, really fucking condescending message on Twitter: Holy shit, really? She has gone to great lengths not to involve herself in the controversy, I don't try to convince her of my point of view nor drag her into my online arguments, and yet she [I]still[/I] ends up getting belitted for her gender- and it's by anti-Gamergate. Absolutely unreal. I feel like I'm too involved not to take a firm stance, and this kind of holier-than-thou, mother-knows-best hypocrisy really needs to stop. With the significant industry successes GG has had (the FTC thing is HUGE), and the increasing public support from game developers, I don't have a problem calling myself pro-GG. If you'd asked me back in September whether I thought it'd still be around by Christmas, I'd have been skeptical, but now I have no doubt that this is going to continue at least into next year, and the substantial impact GG has had on the industry has already validated it. So I'll end with this: The holiday season means a lot for publishers. How games sell around Christmas can make or break a company, especially a struggling one. Recent events have shown that the gaming community can buoy up a pro-GG developer, and that may encourage others to speak up to maximize sales for the holiday season. Know that the industry is not firmly one way or another, there are a lot of devs who are pro-GG but there are also a lot who are anti-GG, what matters to us as activists is how they express it publicly. So be careful about what you buy- Steam sales are always tempting, but it's important to send a clear message about who you're willing to support. If you like strategy games, consider Sins of a Solar Empire or Galactic Civilizations, as not only are they great games, but Stardock is pretty prominent in the controversy right now and would be a great leader for the rest of the industry to take a stand. Game studios follow the money, so if you show them that you're the ones with the power they'll side with you.[/QUOTE] TBH I think the GTA thing was the act that is pushing a lot of people over the edge, especially when they were going "Were not going to take away your videogames" and then... [URL]http://i.imgur.com/TjrPOQ7.png[/URL] Jim Sterling earlier : [quote]“Anita Sarkeesian is not Magneto. And when people say she needs to be stopped, I think that’s what people say about Magneto. She is not that. She does not have a Sisterhood of Evil Mutants. She ain’t gonna take your games away.[/quote] (P.S, quoted so it'll be on the top of the page.) [editline]4th December 2014[/editline] Totalbiscut on Gamesmedia's reaction to the ban : [quote]When you see games media sites celebrating the censorship of a videogame, you know they've forgotten what it means to be proconsumer.[/quote]

[QUOTE=catbarf;46636393]If you like strategy games, consider Sins of a Solar Empire or Galactic Civilizations, as not only are they great games, but Stardock is pretty prominent in the controversy right now and would be a great leader for the rest of the industry to take a stand.[/quote] You don't have to be pro-GG if you don't want to, just call out harrassment and ethical issues when you see them. And yes, these games are excellent and I will have to buy them for friends or something because I've already owned them for years. [QUOTE=TheJoey;46635996]the GTA ban is celebrated by Kotaku Australia. [URL]https://archive.today/t1cpP[/URL][/QUOTE] [quote]Firstly, [I]Grand Theft Auto[/I]‘s depiction of women is [B]problematic[/B].[/quote] FFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK

[QUOTE=catbarf;46636393] So I'll end with this: The holiday season means a lot for publishers. How games sell around Christmas can make or break a company, especially a struggling one. Recent events have shown that the gaming community can buoy up a pro-GG developer, and that may encourage others to speak up to maximize sales for the holiday season. Know that the industry is not firmly one way or another, there are a lot of devs who are pro-GG but there are also a lot who are anti-GG, what matters to us as activists is how they express it publicly. So be careful about what you buy- Steam sales are always tempting, but it's important to send a clear message about who you're willing to support. If you like strategy games, consider Sins of a Solar Empire or Galactic Civilizations, as not only are they great games, but Stardock is pretty prominent in the controversy right now and would be a great leader for the rest of the industry to take a stand. Game studios follow the money, so if you show them that you're the ones with the power they'll side with you.[/QUOTE] And so Gamergate misogynists continue to bully brave womyn and womyn's allies out of the industry by not buying their shitty games. You know Kotaku would happily write that. In all seriousness, I'd much rather devs willingly support GG because of, well, it's the right thing to do, but... yeah.

It's starting to look like gamergate is about harassment after all... The harassment of gamers and developers by twitter crusaders, specifically. I guess attacking gamers alone wasn't enough for them.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;46637076] FFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK[/QUOTE] It's satire at best, unimaginative at worst. And it's anything but problematic.

we're not going to take your video games away, that's preposterous. we just want them to not be sold any more

from 2013 [video=youtube;Lje1viM_djY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lje1viM_djY[/video]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46637571]from 2013 [video=youtube;Lje1viM_djY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lje1viM_djY[/video][/QUOTE] Couldn't he just have stopped at "I have every right to call you a fucking asshole"?

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46637758]Couldn't he just have stopped at "I have every right to call you a fucking asshole"?[/QUOTE] But the question was, would it bring him the same amount of pussy as what he actually said? Spoiler: spoiler: the correct answer is [sp]yes, it would have[/sp]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46637571]from 2013 [video=youtube;Lje1viM_djY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lje1viM_djY[/video][/QUOTE] You have every right to find my address for what purpose, Mr. Sessler? Incite your internet minions to come over to my house and kill me? Didn't I hear that one before?

[QUOTE=gudman;46637823]But the question was, would it bring him the same amount of pussy as what he actually said? Spoiler: spoiler: the correct answer is [sp]yes, it would have[/sp][/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he more motivated by nose candy, rather than sex.

[QUOTE=Morphology53;46638251]I'm pretty sure he more motivated by nose candy, rather than sex.[/QUOTE] And I'm sure he wasn't motivated in any way at all. He just couldn't help himself. It ain't much of a labor to enact, not to add that you support doxxing. He's gone out of his way to say that. He probably thought that it would score him some points, defending shit behavior of certain individuals he has no substantial interest in defending. It's analogous to doing it for sex in a way that it's so misguided and a poor decision. The fact that he had to scream that last part to be heard over the people just confirms it. Adam, people already support what you've said. Shut up. You don't have to add anything.

[QUOTE=TB]When you see games media sites celebrating the censorship of a videogame, you know they've forgotten what it means to be proconsumer.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2o9u2r/kmart_target_and_the_warehouse_pull_games_from/[/url] [QUOTE]But of course, as we have seen for months, TB (and GG as a whole) will use one site or one instance of something and hold it up as an 'industry wide' held belief and proof that the Games Media is corrupt or wholly biased or whatever. [/QUOTE] Oh, you mean like GamerGhazi uses mob mentality to do the exact same thing? You do realise that a lot of people who are participating in this discussion are simply in it because they've been alienated and villainised? And you're continuing to do the exact_same_thing.

[QUOTE=uber.;46638422][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2o9u2r/kmart_target_and_the_warehouse_pull_games_from/[/url] Oh, you mean like GamerGhazi uses mob mentality to do the exact same thing? You do realise that a lot of people who are participating in this discussion are simply in it because they've been alienated and villainised? And you're continuing to do the exact_same_thing.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=lawrencethomas3]Its obvious that's what his entire "ethics in games journalism" stance has been about from the very start. He has a very me vs. them mentality when it comes to people who do gaming stuff at actual websites and he has for years. [/QUOTE] It's like I'm in bizzarro world these people cannot be this blind to their own actions. [QUOTE=lawrencethomas3]But of course, as we have seen for months, TB (and GG as a whole) will use one site or one instance of something and hold it up as an 'industry wide' held belief and proof that the Games Media is [B]corrupt or wholly biased or whatever[/B]. [/QUOTE] replace Games Media, with the Games industry, and, corrupt and wholly biased, with sexist and racist.

[QUOTE=uber.;46638422][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2o9u2r/kmart_target_and_the_warehouse_pull_games_from/[/url] Oh, you mean like GamerGhazi uses mob mentality to do the exact same thing? You do realise that a lot of people who are participating in this discussion are simply in it because they've been alienated and villainised? And you're continuing to do the exact_same_thing.[/QUOTE] GamerGhazi shows spectacular lack of self-awareness yet again. Not a particular surprise considering it's unofficial satellite sub of SRS.

[QUOTE=uber.;46638422][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2o9u2r/kmart_target_and_the_warehouse_pull_games_from/[/url] Oh, you mean like GamerGhazi uses mob mentality to do the exact same thing? You do realise that a lot of people who are participating in this discussion are simply in it because they've been alienated and villainised? And you're continuing to do the exact_same_thing.[/QUOTE] [quote=http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1siuhck]I used to say I wasnt a journalist because I didnt live up to journalistic standards. Now I say it because it's embarassing to be associated with them.[/quote]

tb already admitted that he was wrong to generalize all journalists like that on his twitter. i think thats more than gamerghazi can say about admitting their own faults.

Welcome to le reddit.

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46638521][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dvirYja.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [quote]It's an incredibly unsafe place for discussion...[/quote] Are these people on easily offended life support?

gamerghazi is like encyclopedia dramatica without the self awareness of being a parody

Unsafe discussion sounds more like possibility for opposing views (no shit, huh). Its not healthy to be that isolated from other viewpoints. That's what gets you right and left wing nutters. The language may be different but I'll be damned if it doesn't read like my extreme right wing nutter "friends" on facebook. [editline]4th December 2014[/editline] I saw that thing with IGN Australia praising the GTA V ban earlier, IGN US was not even slightly pleased whatsoever.

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4ByneVCcAEkEVu.jpg:large[/img] you can actually read this online too. [url]http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9376232/free-speech-is-so-last-century-todays-students-want-the-right-to-be-comfortable/[/url] very related to gamergate, specifically anti-gamergate.

[URL]http://www.techinsider.net/twitter-inc-twtr-could-use-gamergate-autoblocker-model-to-block-millions-of-fake-accounts/1120221.html[/URL] [quote]The source also mentioned about an engineer, Randi Harper, who managed to craft an auto blocker for blocking thousands of accounts that were sending tweets full of hatred and anti-women speech. This auto blocker was called Gamergate autoblocker. This model worked well. But Twitter Inc (NYSE:TWTR) will need to devise a sophisticated plan to deal with billions of tweets that are inappropriate for the society.[/quote] [quote]This model worked well.[/quote] :downs: (this is probably fake or twitter lost his goddamn mind)

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46638521][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dvirYja.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] "Try stating some criticism about X in the most neutral tone you can and I can guarantee you'll still get downvoted" is something that can be said about basically every fucking subreddit, unless X happens to be something that is universally disliked on that subreddit, because then people will downvote you for not hating it into oblivion and beyond.

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;46638724][url]http://www.techinsider.net/twitter-inc-twtr-could-use-gamergate-autoblocker-model-to-block-millions-of-fake-accounts/1120221.html[/url] :downs:[/QUOTE] I love how they overtly glorify a bully. Seriously do these people actually see what goes on, or do they just lie for a living. Plus the damned thing barely worked. But yeah that's what we need for sure, even more division and blind hate between people, in the name of equality.

[QUOTE=N-12_Aden;46638573] Its not healthy to be that isolated from other viewpoints. That's what gets you right and left wing nutters. The language may be different but I'll be damned if it doesn't read like my extreme right wing nutter "friends" on facebook. [/QUOTE] Which is why horseshoe theory is a thing. The more extreme a person gets, the more likely they are to surround themselves by like-minded individuals and shelter from outside points of view. And since 'extreme' in any direction leads to totalitarian mindset... the ideas will mostly just be the same, silence all opposition by any means necessary, everything else just follows.

[QUOTE=gudman;46638763]Which is why horseshoe theory is a thing. The more extreme a person gets, the more likely they are to surround themselves by like-minded individuals and shelter from outside points of view. And since 'extreme' in any direction leads to totalitarian mindset... the ideas will mostly just be the same, silence all opposition by any means necessary, everything else just follows.[/QUOTE] I heard about horseshoe theory in a different name I think, in my first college political science class. I didn't give it too much thought outside of dictatorships and oppressive regimes, and I never thought "normal" people could get caught in it.

I almost hope twitter will implement her blocklist as-is Imagine ten thousand people, including huge corporations like kfc flipping their shit at the same time. It would be glorious.