Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

It certainly would help if there was like a single pastebin/image that would contain all our arguments and proof why we are right in a single form, that could help us convince anti-gg people because honestly, after reading that cracked article part of me feels almost convinced that Zoe Quinn is right. I mean, I've been following this thread since page one of the SH version, and while I do [i]know[/i] that we are right, I feel like all arguments as to [i]why[/i] we are right have almost completely vanished of my head through the course of the last weeks Look, I'm not naive enough to change my mind by 180' after reading a single piece of text, especially a one where you can see inconsistencies with a naked eye. It's just that if I suddenly found out that one of my friends/collegues/familly supports Zoe, I know for a fact that I would not be able to convince him to our side, nor even win an argument with him

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45995740]It certainly would help if there was like a single pastebin/image that would contain all our arguments and proof why we are right in a single form, that could help us convince anti-gg people because honestly, after reading that cracked article part of me feels almost convinced that Zoe Quinn is right. I mean, I've been following this thread since page one of the SH version, and while I do [i]know[/i] that we are right, I feel like all arguments as to [i]why[/i] we are right have almost completely vanished of my head through the course of the last weeks Look, I'm not naive enough to change my mind by 180' after reading a single piece of text, especially a one where you can see inconsistencies with a naked eye. It's just that if I suddenly found out that one of my friends/collegues/familly supports Zoe, I know for a fact that I would not be able to convince him to our side, nor even win an argument with him[/QUOTE] I talked about that last week, I mentioned an argument I had with a friend and how they pretty much waved around that IRC log as irrefutable proof that this whole thing was just "a witch hunt against a woman" and every argument I had against it just escaped my head because there's just so much shit going on that I couldn't remember the specifics on why the pro-gamergate side is the good one. A single web-page with links to all the evidence for gamergate would go a long way towards keeping that from happening again. Or, just refuse to talk about it in front of friends who think differently. "Friends who want to stay friends don't discuss religion or politics", right?

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45995740]It certainly would help if there was like a single pastebin/image that would contain all our arguments and proof why we are right in a single form, that could help us convince anti-gg people because honestly, after reading that cracked article part of me feels almost convinced that Zoe Quinn is right. I mean, I've been following this thread since page one of the SH version, and while I do [i]know[/i] that we are right, I feel like all arguments as to [i]why[/i] we are right have almost completely vanished of my head through the course of the last weeks Look, I'm not naive enough to change my mind by 180' after reading a single piece of text, especially a one where you can see inconsistencies with a naked eye. It's just that if I suddenly found out that one of my friends/collegues/familly supports Zoe, I know for a fact that I would not be able to convince him to our side, nor even win an argument with him[/QUOTE] We have a have one, we've been saying it. But there are multiple points of tension and we can't just focus on a singular one. We have the harder fight because we need to go up against people who agree on an ideological level, where as we're spread out and have many reasons for doing it. I say harder instead of impossible because these same people who are united pulled the dumbest move possible and have been trying to unite us. You can't unite a mob's thinking, you cannot unite a public out cry. Our decentralization is our saving grace and our curse.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;45994835]Seems Zoe has taken her lies to Cracked. [URL="http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-i-learned-as-internets-most-hated-person/"]http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-i-learned-as-internets-most-hated-person/[/URL][/QUOTE] That was the whiniest article I've ever read. I could go on and on about all the contradictions, cherry-picking, misinterpreting blah blah blah etc., but yeah I guess this could pass as a joke article.

Take the harrasment for example, we had assholes who did pull of harrasement and then the united side together outcried, generalized and insulted gamers are being white male basement dwellers. Not your Shield slapped them so hard in the face they have whiplash. They tried to use IRC logs, and were then slapped again for using a chat service that's completely user based. They tried pin holing the [B]whole of 4chan.[/B] Like, they keep trying to unite us under one banner but I know from FP, we're just sick and tired of the shit articles and a few of us are more pissed off because of the manipulative nature of these so called 'feminists' who throw feminism under a bus once its useless. You go in with your own reasons and if you can explain calmly without insult, your reasoning, you should be fine. If they can't say, "I don't agree but I can see where you're coming from", they're not worth the effort.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45919294]I thought Tim Schaefer wasn't wrapped up in this mess. I thought he just really really liked Anita. Please don't break my heart Tim. We've been through so much already. :'([/QUOTE] Just as much as correlation doesn't mean causation, correlation also doesn't mean knowledge. It's entirely possible he's unaware of anything in that direction happening. (The people involved wouldn't have gone around telling everyone they know, after all.) [editline]edit[/editline] I'm catching up on about a week of stuff, so it's possible I'll reply to some really old things if I think it's important.

It always baffles me when reddit uses the excuse of not finding content on reddit 'organically' to justify brigade bans. Like, I think that finding internet content by having it linked to me by somebody else is a hell of a lot more 'organic' than finding it by sitting on a subreddit and having said content approved by the reddit community and moderation.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;45996102]Just as much as correlation doesn't mean causation, correlation also doesn't mean knowledge. It's entirely possible he's unaware of anything in that direction happening. (The people involved wouldn't have gone around telling everyone they know, after all.)[/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fact he's acting like a dork.

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;45995370]As with every insult ever.[/QUOTE] It was just supposed to be a more efficient way to refer to people who aren't trans but a lot of people got offended that they may a word for them and defied their normativity. Then really extreme tumblr people started saying it with contempt

Look, you guys have misunderstood me. The problem doesn't really lay in the fact that I would potentially have a hard time trying to convert a ZQ supporter to "our" side. The problem is that I currently have a hard time trying to convince [i]myself[/i] that we are right. I don't want to be a part of a "mob", or a "decentralized movement", or anything that would require me to rely purely on "faith" that we are right and they are wrong. Two weeks ago I knew that Zoe Quinn is a manipulative sociopath and that gaming journalism is spread with corruption. Right now I'm not sure of anything. Now that I come to think of it, 90% of screencaps in this thread is just tweets of angry SJW's insulting/ harassing people on twitter. I mean, stuff is pretty bad, but aren't there quite a lot of GG supporters doing the same thing? It doesn't prove that we are any more "right" then they are, it just proves that they are about as bad as we are in terms of nutjobs percentage. Do we even have anything that proves that there is something going on that doesn't rely on "he said she said"? [sp]look, I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, it's quite the opposite actually - I'm trying to provoke you into convincing me that you are right because I just can't do this myself[/sp]

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45996323]Look, you guys have misunderstood me. The problem doesn't really lay in the fact that I would potentially have a hard time trying to convert a ZQ supporter to "our" side. The problem is that I currently have a hard time trying to convince [i]myself[/i] that we are right. I don't want to be a part of a "mob", or a "decentralized movement", or anything that would require me to rely purely on "faith" that we are right and they are wrong. Two weeks ago I knew that Zoe Quinn is a manipulative sociopath and that gaming journalism is spread with corruption. Right now I'm not sure of anything. Now that I come to think of it, 90% of screencaps in this thread is just tweets of angry SJW's insulting/ harassing people on twitter. I mean, stuff is pretty bad, but aren't there quite a lot of GG supporters doing the same thing? It doesn't prove that we are any more "right" then they are, it just proves that they are about as bad as we are in terms of nutjobs percentage. Do we even have anything that proves that there is something going on that doesn't rely on "he said she said"? [sp]look, I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, it's quite the opposite actually - I'm trying to provoke you into convincing me that you are right because I just can't do this myself[/sp][/QUOTE] Remiu's Interviews are probably the best source for information about Maya Kramer and Zoe Quinn. The interview with the Professor is another great source compared to the found evidence of room mates, pateron support and even relationships. If you wanna look at journalistic integrity. The next point would be the edited IRC logs that were taken with one-hundred percent fact when they were released but were verified to be completely false. After that, its the slow going investigations like the FBI and Indiecade Corruption. Whether Zoe and Anita were run out of their homes are in question as well, if the San Francisco Police Statement is correct. There's also a bunch of things that need verification, and haven't been verified so they need to be tossed aside. As for corruption in games Journalism, you just have to look at Dorito Pope, the Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco, journos being given free gear like Xboxes and iPads. [editline]16th September 2014[/editline] I want to see the harassment coming from GamerGate. I want to know about it so I can rip it apart as well. I want to see the stupid shit we're doing.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45996323]Look, you guys have misunderstood me. The problem doesn't really lay in the fact that I would potentially have a hard time trying to convert a ZQ supporter to "our" side. The problem is that I currently have a hard time trying to convince [i]myself[/i] that we are right. I don't want to be a part of a "mob", or a "decentralized movement", or anything that would require me to rely purely on "faith" that we are right and they are wrong. Two weeks ago I knew that Zoe Quinn is a manipulative sociopath and that gaming journalism is spread with corruption. Right now I'm not sure of anything. Now that I come to think of it, 90% of screencaps in this thread is just tweets of angry SJW's insulting/ harassing people on twitter. I mean, stuff is pretty bad, but aren't there quite a lot of GG supporters doing the same thing? It doesn't prove that we are any more "right" then they are, it just proves that they are about as bad as we are in terms of nutjobs percentage. Do we even have anything that proves that there is something going on that doesn't rely on "he said she said"? [sp]look, I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, it's quite the opposite actually - I'm trying to provoke you into convincing me that you are right because I just can't do this myself[/sp][/QUOTE] The SJW screencaps are easy stuff. The real solid proof lies in the fuckhuge text screencaps from Reimu among others, as well as the hour long videos made on the subject. Acknowleding proof for something like this require a little bit of dedication.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;45994497]To quote Babylon 5. "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side and the truth" Hell, the whole scene in that episode is pretty applicable to the extremists on either side (Although I hate to say that because the extremists really aren't interested in the side any more than what they can get out of being in it and being inflamatory towards the other)[/QUOTE] Babylon 5 still holds up to this day I find, also I watched the episode Infection the other night. I can't find the quote on youtube but it's the only quote on wikipedia. [i]"You forgot the first rule of a fanatic: when you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy"[/i]- Jeffrey Sinclair Even though the episode is about an alien race that created a weapon to kill the invaders only to kill the entire race themselves because it was programmed to kill off anything that wasn't genetically pure and that purity was tied to ideology and no one is 100 pure. The episode's morals can apply to this current event to people we've seen be or become zealots. also this little gem which shows how crazy people get without thinking what they are doing is wrong: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyDWIn-D7xY[/url] (only link to save space and not seqway from topic)

[QUOTE=megafat;45921961]Thanks for making me regret buying Broken Age.[/QUOTE] I don't, because it's a good game. I won't fund any of his future project though (but possibly things others in the company are leading).

[QUOTE=WhyNott;45996323]Look, you guys have misunderstood me. The problem doesn't really lay in the fact that I would potentially have a hard time trying to convert a ZQ supporter to "our" side. The problem is that I currently have a hard time trying to convince [i]myself[/i] that we are right. I don't want to be a part of a "mob", or a "decentralized movement", or anything that would require me to rely purely on "faith" that we are right and they are wrong. Two weeks ago I knew that Zoe Quinn is a manipulative sociopath and that gaming journalism is spread with corruption. Right now I'm not sure of anything. Now that I come to think of it, 90% of screencaps in this thread is just tweets of angry SJW's insulting/ harassing people on twitter. I mean, stuff is pretty bad, but aren't there quite a lot of GG supporters doing the same thing? It doesn't prove that we are any more "right" then they are, it just proves that they are about as bad as we are in terms of nutjobs percentage. Do we even have anything that proves that there is something going on that doesn't rely on "he said she said"? [sp]look, I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, it's quite the opposite actually - I'm trying to provoke you into convincing me that you are right because I just can't do this myself[/sp][/QUOTE] Basically what you want is a constructive, high quality in-depth explanation as unbiased as possible but at the same time critical about the whole deal, the GG and the anti-GG points of view and all that. I'd also love something like that. I mean, there are the IA videos but while I generally like him, there's no denying he isn't the most objective man in the world. He doesn't pretend to be either, as he said on his stream, he's basically a guy upset about the corruption who makes youtube videos about it for the sake of it, for his own enjoyment.

[QUOTE=Ithon;45996615]Babylon 5 still holds up to this day I find, also I watched the episode Infection the other night. I can't find the quote on youtube but it's the only quote on wikipedia. [i]"You forgot the first rule of a fanatic: when you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy"[/i]- Jeffrey Sinclair Even though the episode is about an alien race that created a weapon to kill the invaders only to kill the entire race themselves because it was programmed to kill off anything that wasn't genetically pure and that purity was tied to ideology and no one is 100 pure. The episode's morals can apply to this current event to people we've seen be or become zealots. also this little gem which shows how crazy people get without thinking what they are doing is wrong: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyDWIn-D7xY[/url] (only link to save space and not seqway from topic)[/QUOTE] SJW's and that side confirmed to be Shadows, GG side is the ISA, sure, there may be some shits in it (Like the Drazi and Centauri) but overall, a positive group. The problem is, while the GG side does have proof or arguments based on the connections found and behaviour of the people involved, the SJW don't really have any arguments or rebuttals other than "Misogyny, harassment, neckbeards, nerds"

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;45996748]SJW's and that side confirmed to be Shadows, GG side is the ISA, sure, there may be some shits in it (Like the Drazi and Centauri) but overall, a positive group. The problem is, while the GG side does have proof or arguments based on the connections found and behaviour of the people involved, the SJW don't really have any arguments or rebuttals other than "Misogyny, harassment, neckbeards, nerds"[/QUOTE] Their main tool is guilt, which is a very very powerful tool.

I know that mentioning max now is frowned upon but he's gone ahead and [URL="http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/97558398777"]made his own strawman comic[/URL]. Getting banned from this discussion hit him really hard. :V If you don't want to click (and I can't blame you): [IMG]http://33.media.tumblr.com/fa5104e0f55e6f33b96ba728fba7e17d/tumblr_nbxx0qkMEQ1r42s8uo1_500.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Wii60;45922293][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cCFQv7O.png[/IMG] fuck you tim[/QUOTE] Sources please! I'm archiving all the images but I'd still like to archive.today the original tweet and doing that without a link is not something I can keep up with with the amount of information posted. Besides that, it would only be good debate manners since those images can be so easily forged.

[QUOTE=Doritos-pope;45996795]I know that mentioning max now is frowned upon but he's gone ahead and [URL="http://tumblr.maxofs2d.net/post/97558398777"]made his own strawman comic[/URL]. Getting banned from this discussion hit him really hard. :V If you don't want to click (and I can't blame you): [IMG]http://33.media.tumblr.com/fa5104e0f55e6f33b96ba728fba7e17d/tumblr_nbxx0qkMEQ1r42s8uo1_500.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Seriously? Seriously?! After all that, after all the crap he's done he still doesn't even wanna look at it.

fyi that text is clearly doctored on [editline]16th September 2014[/editline] as in he didn't make that picture

Like I don't understand, he was clearly shitposting, how can he get so mad.

I like tha Zoe Quinn has spent this whole movement going "IT'S ABOUT ME EVERYONE'S TARGETING ME" when in reality the only reason people mention her is because she keeps bringing her self up into everything

[QUOTE=Reimu;45924905]My op-ed version of my first twitlong is now published and in print for the rest of the day! Check it below, [B]I used a shortener to make it easy to navigate and etc[/B] [url]http://goo.gl/9T8kWj[/url][/QUOTE] [emphasis mine] Does that etc by chance mean "to see how many people click your link"? :wink: Long urls are appreciated, at least by me. [editline]addendum[/editline] "To reduce reverse searchability" would be a good reason though, I suppose that's a more likely possibility in your case.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45996961]Like I don't understand, he was clearly shitposting, how can he get so mad.[/QUOTE] Just SJW things, I guess.

[QUOTE=Jordax;45997090]Just SJW things, I guess.[/QUOTE] Nah, nah. This is like, even beyond him. For someone who can read out a post that actually burned him to the point of hospitalization and a hit TV show, he still doing this.

[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;45926184]I'm not sure how this helps though. Maybe I'm too sleepy but it just looks like she's copy and pasting stuff[/QUOTE] If someone's copy-pasting, attaching a conflicting point of view to the post itself is often enough to reduce the speed it spreads further, if anything. In the best case it's enough to make them reconsider.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;45996748]SJW's and that side confirmed to be Shadows, GG side is the ISA, sure, there may be some shits in it (Like the Drazi and Centauri) but overall, a positive group. The problem is, while the GG side does have proof or arguments based on the connections found and behaviour of the people involved, the SJW don't really have any arguments or rebuttals other than "Misogyny, harassment, neckbeards, nerds"[/QUOTE] you forgot rape culture, it's not up front in dialog but it's there. I would say some people are president Clark and the psi-corps not just shadows.

Rape Culture is a thing, however its something that can only be challenged in education circles and family settings. You can't stop it in cultural settings because once the culture starts to mirror that shit, its even harder.

Also, why is this thread, despite being super active, under ones without posts for days? [IMG]http://puu.sh/bBLTi.png[/IMG]