Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=JesseR92;46001218]I have been away from FP for some time TH89 went on a spree?[/QUOTE] Honestly his spree was well deserved :v: Ah, good times when the ticker was blown up. Good times. edit: I miss pr3dator [editline]17th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Venezuelan;46002942]^ this is what I'm talking about, describing people as "compromised" for interacting with sjw or having similar opinions makes all of this look like a witch hunt and you'd do well to stop it for your credibility. The reason people on the outside are laughing this off is because this is what they see. I only started paying attention because of the igf thing[/QUOTE] clearly sjw is an incurable disease, which is why we describe it as 'compromised' rip in pieces moot

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46002942]^ this is what I'm talking about, describing people as "compromised" for interacting with sjw or having similar opinions makes all of this look like a witch hunt and you'd do well to stop it for your credibility. The reason people on the outside are laughing this off is because this is what they see. I only started paying attention because of the igf thing[/QUOTE] He attends that conference and no less than 3 days later anything to do with GamerGate (which had been confirmed by mods to be perfectly fine just a week or two ago) gets deleted, the OPs banned (for 3 entire days), and they delete/ban even on /b/ and /pol/. They even ban posters, not just OPs. How the hell do you not connect the dots? As for "compromised", just exchange it for whatever you want. Compromised sounds pretty good for becoming a censoring, corrupt scum like the ones over at Reddit or NeoGaf.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46002942]^ this is what I'm talking about, describing people as "compromised" for interacting with sjw or having similar opinions makes all of this look like a witch hunt and you'd do well to stop it for your credibility. The reason people on the outside are laughing this off is because this is what they see. I only started paying attention because of the igf thing[/QUOTE] The problem is that people believing these things can completely rational and completely serious at the same time. [quote=New York Times][I]But according to recent scientific research on the matter, it most likely only serves to make theories more convincing to the public. What’s even more surprising is that this sort of theorizing isn’t limited to those on the margins. Perfectly sane minds possess an incredible capacity for developing narratives, and even some of the wildest conspiracy theories can be grounded in rational thinking, which makes them that much more pernicious.[/I] -- 63 percent of registered American voters believe in at least one political conspiracy theory, according to a recent poll conducted by Fairleigh Dickinson University.[/quote] We can have completely rational people, and you can laugh at them but there's a bigger danger in not engaging them and trying to calm them down. They actually get in the way of actual discussion. [editline]17th September 2014[/editline] [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0"]Sauce[/URL]

[QUOTE=acds;46002888]-image snipped- Moot may be compromised. Attended a Sarkeesian panel 3 days ago about harassment, now this happens. Quite the timing.[/QUOTE] that tweet is from april 21st, which is months before even burgers and fries was a thing. what the heck does it have to do with him attending xoxofest within the past few days?

The idea that these people are laughable about this is not good because both sides are functioning under a paranoid delusion of correctness. Both world views are going to collapse but until then, its like the story line of Fringe. One's gonna get wrecked. For instance, the images above, its just as likely that the mod banning and closing every thread on /v/ was there at Anita's talk and got picked up by what has been described to me as a cultish fervor. [editline]17th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;46001320]But doesn´t Anita sometimes shows her points quite well, but she wraps em in a big feministic wrap? That´s just my impression.[/QUOTE] Actually, she doesn't show her points well. And she tends to speak from a knowing perspective to someone of a knowing perspective which is the complete miss of what she aimed her goal to be which is to be used in an educational setting, like high school where none of the students have any idea what the fuck she's talking about when it comes to Patriarchy. She's a PowerPoint Feminist, losing all of the important context and details of her examples which can used as a way to disprove her argument by simply removing all of her examples leaving the base argument empty and filled with assumptions.

Moot is away and doesn't really care about 4chan as much these days. Either way, its pretty clear 4chan has some lone wolf mods that are acting like fucking pricks, which is much more likely. Everyone has to be really, really careful with the SJW narrative. People are jumping the gun like crazy on it, and it ends up making GamerGate look impulsive and reactionary to outsiders. Most people are missing the point, and are quick to challenge leftist politics - NOT opportunistic ladder climbing Personally, I think it's very likely that Silverstring is building connections in order to promote their own work. I think people are confusing THAT with a desire to SJW-ify gaming. Silverstring is trying to gain influence in order to benefit itself, and its willing to do that in the name of leftist politics if it wants to. But all of that is a charade. Many of these people on board are willing to throw off the robe when it personally suits them, and the radical quality of their politics will EASILY fade once the company becomes kingmakers. Remember how ZQ isolated Eron from his feminist friends, because she simply didnt like them? Or how Maya fucked over her entire store in my call out, just to get her way? THAT is the real problem here. Most of these people don't give two legitimate shits about fixing the industry, they just want to use leftists as a springboard to their own ladder climbing ends. We're dealing with career opportunists here, that's why these people are so dangerous. Please, don't assume they actually care about social justice. If they did, they would have stopped Deep Silver, IGN's, and every other publisher's sexually exploitive press parties YEARS ago. They aren't in it for cultural Marxism, they're in it for power. And we need to target that hypocrisy and opportunistic drive, while keeping our hands out of the whole SJW Wars. The latter is a narrative they want us to play, because they know they'll win big with their base and connections. But the former is one that will draw devs to our side, once other powerful players (ie Alexander) leave or shut down

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;46002942]^ this is what I'm talking about, describing people as "compromised" for interacting with sjw or having similar opinions makes all of this look like a witch hunt and you'd do well to stop it for your credibility. The reason people on the outside are laughing this off is because this is what they see. I only started paying attention because of the igf thing[/QUOTE] It feels like people are trying to make links from the weakest connection. Two people talking over lunch now means they're conspiring a racketeering ring or something. Or two unrelated co-workers are funneling money into their company. It's getting a little ridiculous.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46003527]It feels like people are trying to make links from the weakest connection. Two people talking over lunch now means they're conspiring a racketeering ring or something. Or two unrelated co-workers are funneling money into their company. It's getting a little ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I did complain about that earlier, but lets elaborate. That big fucking network graph someone is working on? That's one of the problems with this movement. How many people on that graph do you actually think are 100% complicit with the problems in the industry? It's probably only a small subset of the people on the graph that are actual problem causers, others are probably just people who support their friends and are unaware, or are aware but don't give a shit anyway because it doesn't impact them. Weird grasping at straws like that just makes this whole thing look fucking dumb really. And that's all external eyes are seeing, a bunch of guys grasping at straws to find connections that aren't there. If you want to actually do something useful for the movement, that is not what you need to be doing. As Reimu said, focus on the abuses of power that we know of and can confirm, stop trying to drag others into the web unless they give themselves away or you have proper evidence of their involvement.

Both of you hit the nail on the head. People build connections ALL the time to colleagues that are doing nefarious things. That doesn't mean the former is supporting the latter; it means networks often have bad apples across the entire web. There are a lot of bad apples here who are getting free passes because, say, people are jumping the gun and yelling at Tim. Don't focus on Tim. Focus on people like Leigh Alexander and Maya Kramer, who a.) have a lot of connections to the point of others relying on them, and b.) have really shady and fucked up pasts that involve hurting others and demolishing their careers for personal benefit. People keep getting distracted by Sarkeesian, Zoe, and things like xoxo. Those aren't important. We need to get back on track and hone in on the confirmed abuses of power. The real web will reveal itself from there.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46003560]I did complain about that earlier, but lets elaborate. That big fucking network graph someone is working on? That's one of the problems with this movement. How many people on that graph do you actually think are 100% complicit with the problems in the industry? It's probably only a small subset of the people on the graph that are actual problem causers, others are probably just people who support their friends and are unaware, or are aware but don't give a shit anyway because it doesn't impact them. Weird grasping at straws like that just makes this whole thing look fucking dumb really. And that's all external eyes are seeing, a bunch of guys grasping at straws to find connections that aren't there. If you want to actually do something useful for the movement, that is not what you need to be doing. As Reimu said, focus on the abuses of power that we know of and can confirm, stop trying to drag others into the web unless they give themselves away or you have proper evidence of their involvement.[/QUOTE] I remember you making that comment, but I didn't think much of it until now when moot became "compromised" for attending a conference by Anita, which it made me realize how grasping for straws it is. And it makes me wonder how much else is trying to find things that aren't there. It's getting into conspiracy theory territory like 9/11 truthers are in.

It was exactly those 'look, two people met each other that one time somehow!' that led to uncovering the IGF stuff though.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46003704]I remember you making that comment, but I didn't think much of it until now when moot became "compromised" for attending a conference by Anita, which it made me realize how grasping for straws it is. And it makes me wonder how much else is trying to find things that aren't there. It's getting into conspiracy theory territory like 9/11 truthers are in.[/QUOTE] This weird behaviour is one of the reasons I'm still super sceptical of the "GamerGate" thing as a whole. Sure, the ends sound great, an end to corruption and abuses of power in gaming media. But the methods, and the supporters make it quite hard to actually go along with the main bulk of the movement. The means to this end are confusing and largely useless. Huh...sounds almost word for word how people love to describe modern feminist movements.

I once lived in one room with a 4chan moderator for two weeks he was the biggest fucking asshole I've ever met in my life, I swear. He would non stop play songs about raping dead fetuses at 100% volume, use skyrim memes every two sentences, and also watched anime without headphones (also at 100% volume) when I was trying to sleep. I once made a pun about his name publicly and he almost punched me we were both 15 at the time, but still I don't think that he had rights to moderate /v/, but if this guy is any representative of what 4chan mods are like, then I would say that moot doesn't need to be involved at all

[QUOTE=gudman;46003754]It was exactly those 'look, two people met each other that one time somehow!' that led to uncovering the IGF stuff though.[/QUOTE] That would have come up sooner or later I'm sure. The actual reasoning of "hey...these two indies guys both took part in this, it must be involved!" is pretty janky. You got lucky that there was actually a connection there.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46003767]This weird behaviour is one of the reasons I'm still super sceptical of the "GamerGate" thing as a whole. Sure, the ends sound great, an end to corruption and abuses of power in gaming media. But the methods, and the supporters make it quite hard to actually go along with the main bulk of the movement. The means to this end are confusing and largely useless. Huh...sounds almost word for word how people love to describe modern feminist movements.[/QUOTE] "You become what you hate," applies for both sides

[QUOTE=WhyNott;46003774]he was the biggest fucking asshole I've ever met in my life, I swear. He would non stop play songs about raping dead fetuses at 100% volume, use skyrim memes every two sentences, and also watched anime without headphones (also at 100% volume) when I was trying to sleep.[/QUOTE] Hahaha holy shit, he's basically everything the Internet claims to hate rolled into one awful bag of flesh.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46003775]That would have come up sooner or later I'm sure. The actual reasoning of "hey...these two indies guys both took part in this, it must be involved!" is pretty janky. You got lucky that there was actually a connection there.[/QUOTE] There's no other way for regular crowd to conduct this sort of "investigation" without pointing fingers at things of interest that may or may not turn out to be important. If the connection proves to be there - great, that was fruitful. If it isn't there - move on. If everyone just stopped because "well we don't have enough evidence at this moment", nothing would've come out of it at all. In this particular case being a conspiratard is bound to be more effective than being realistically skeptical.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46003775]That would have come up sooner or later I'm sure. The actual reasoning of "hey...these two indies guys both took part in this, it must be involved!" is pretty janky. You got lucky that there was actually a connection there.[/QUOTE] Having the whole picture can still help identify actual connections. I doubt the guy doing that map claims everybody on it is dishonest. There's nothing wrong with collecting as much information as possible. The problem lies in its interpretation.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;46003774]I once lived in one room with a 4chan moderator for two weeks he was the biggest fucking asshole I've ever met in my life, I swear. He would non stop play songs about raping dead fetuses at 100% volume, use skyrim memes every two sentences, and also watched anime without headphones (also at 100% volume) when I was trying to sleep. I once made a pun about his name publicly and he almost punched me we were both 15 at the time, but still I don't think that he had rights to moderate /v/, but if this guy is any representative of what 4chan mods are like, then I would say that moot doesn't need to be involved at all[/QUOTE] anecdotal etc etc etc I'm friends with two mods and they both hate memes to death. Hell, I know most of the people from the Dota 2 /vg/ general and they're polar opposites of that. [editline]17th September 2014[/editline] but holy shit is it a sarcastic hell hole. literally every word out of their mouths are fake

[QUOTE=gudman;46003845]There's no other way for regular crowd to conduct this sort of "investigation" without pointing fingers at things of interest that may or may not turn out to be important. If the connection proves to be there - great, that was fruitful. If it isn't there - move on. If everyone just stopped because "well we don't have enough evidence at this moment", nothing would've come out of it at all. In this particular case being a conspiratard is bound to be more effective than being realistically skeptical.[/QUOTE] Hell, police investigations are all about following leads that may or may not go anywhere. [editline]17th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;46003767]This weird behaviour is one of the reasons I'm still super sceptical of the "GamerGate" thing as a whole. Sure, the ends sound great, an end to corruption and abuses of power in gaming media. But the methods, and the supporters make it quite hard to actually go along with the main bulk of the movement. The means to this end are confusing and largely useless. Huh...sounds almost word for word how people love to describe modern feminist movements.[/QUOTE] Its why I left Feminism to begin with. Add on the fact that third wave tries to tackle all forms of oppression and you can already see the issue. They can't dive into the details, they can't debate because they're focus is way to broad in scope. Combine with the rift that occurred in the 1980's and further factionalism in the 90's and now you have hundreds of little feminist groups fighting for the same thing or all sorts of different things, hating on each other and everything around them. Combine with the vitriolic loud speaker, naked, spray white shit in people's faces radical feminism and you can literally see the issue. Feminism has failed to inspire understanding, its started to lock people into corners, its shoving and insulting with words that no one outside of the academic world even understands and then they get even more mad when we say, "What?" You don't fight hate with vitriol and hate, you fight it with compassion and understanding. But everyone is so gunho like a bunch ramboing women that they never actually stop to see the world around them.

[QUOTE=gudman;46003845]There's no other way for regular crowd to conduct this sort of "investigation" without pointing fingers at things of interest that may or may not turn out to be important. If the connection proves to be there - great, that was fruitful. [B]If it isn't there - move on[/B]. If everyone just stopped because "well we don't have enough evidence at this moment", nothing would've come out of it at all. In this particular case being a conspiratard is bound to be more effective than being realistically skeptical.[/QUOTE] Yeah who cares about possibly ruining the reputation of someone innocent over something that didn't happen right?

[QUOTE=Manibogi;46004772]Yeah who cares about possibly ruining the reputation of someone innocent over something that didn't happen right?[/QUOTE] Because so many reputations were unjustly ruined so far, considering dozens of possible and impossible connections being discovered and made up every day by the Gamergate. This didn't start yesterday. Drawing connection is one thing. Announcing it is another, and so far GG manages to verify plausible connections and drop implausible ones.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46004132]Hell, police investigations are all about following leads that may or may not go anywhere.[/QUOTE] The difference is that police investigations don't have a mob following every lead.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46004924]The difference is that police investigations don't have a mob following every lead.[/QUOTE] Yeah, instead you have one or two people following only their personal experiences and judgments. Neither way of investigating is ideal because one leaves it to the personal bias of a few to follow through, the other is at the whims of a mob mentality but is brought to a wider base of knowledge and perspective.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46004963]Yeah, instead you have one or two people following only their personal experiences and judgments. Neither way of investigating is ideal because one leaves it to the personal bias of a few to follow through, the other is at the whims of a mob mentality but is brought to a wider base of knowledge and perspective.[/QUOTE] I trust an experienced detective or two much, much more than an internet "investigation" mob.

jesus christ, there's a thread up on /v/ right now about that breaking news story of the MLG gamer who was killed in a robbery trying to sell his PS4 over craigslist. the title of the thread in the OP is "Niggers kill white guy for his Ps4", the thread has hundreds of posts with a huge chunk of them being "nigger" this, "nigger" that, a bunch of racist MSpaint comics about black people... it's been up for over a half hour, it's still going strong and consistently getting bumped to the first page and the mods have yet to bat a fucking eyelash at it but they sure are working hard at making sure no gamergate thread stays up for more than 60 seconds

[QUOTE=acds;46002888][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HgHgtJK.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE] He can't be serious. "Boo hoo! I'm getting threatening emails!" He's been using the internet since the Clinton administration. He should know better than to bow to this level of shit.

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;46005135]He can't be serious. "Boo hoo! I'm getting threatening emails!" He's been using the internet since the Clinton administration. He should know better than to bow to this level of shit.[/QUOTE] he's sharing it because it's funny and he's mocking the guy not complaining you really think fucking moot hasn't gotten worse shit

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;46005135]He can't be serious. "Boo hoo! I'm getting threatening emails!" He's been using the internet since the Clinton administration. He should know better than to bow to this level of shit.[/QUOTE] i think he posted it more for the humour aspect due to how nonsensically obscene the message was i'm sure he gets much more insidious and well-worded threats every day

i think moot posts crap like that all the time imo