Is the general Dislike of Anime unwarranted? - General

To be honest judging any form of media due to a stereotype is ridiculous and sadly it's very widespread way of judging media. I feel a lot of stereotypical anime fans give other a bad rap and bad animes give other anime a bad rap as well. It's like how a lot of people feel about heavy metal music. The stereotype is loud angry people recklessly beating their instruments shouting generic lyrics of death, war, satanism, and pain. This may be just where I live (I live in a very backwards-ass state) but a lot of people I've met actually believe in said stereotype. All the anime hate is just uneducated hate towards it as a whole. Even if all anime is stereotypical just don't watch it.

People saying Anime sucks, might not realize that they know what it meant. I had someone telling me anime was for "gay nerds". Ofcourse, He loved pokemon... Hating Anime is too mainstream, and many people hate it because [B]it's Anime[/B] It's different to people, then it's not normal. It's like saying gay people are the anime and the people against is afraid of it. If people hates something, why don't they argue with better opinions then the guy I talked to? I just doesn't make any sense...

There are valid reasons to dislike anime. It's just most people are stupid and dislike it because [B]they can[/B]. My argument against [I]most[/I] anime was pretty solid. I don't deny there are good anime shows out there. They're just a pain in the ass to come by. Of course, my reasoning was pretty opinionated, but that goes with everybody. The people who just hate anime to hate anime are just ridiculous, though. If you have a good reason, let it be known. Don't just say "lol anime iz gay".

Is there any real debate to be had here beyond 'I think x anime is good/bad' at this point?

[QUOTE=Kaze;34677673]Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Soul Eater [/quote] [QUOTE=Kaze;34677673]short animes.[/QUOTE] no

[QUOTE=Megafan;34809608]Is there any real debate to be had here beyond 'I think x anime is good/bad' at this point?[/QUOTE] Yes. For whatever reason, the people who are drawn into liking anime to begin with are also the same people who have a tendency to get completely absorbed into the fictional universes that the anime's create.

i only like anime is it has a original concept, or if its oriented around drifting and cars, i'm typically cynical towards it, but if it falls under those categories i'm open to it

[QUOTE=q0q;34810170]Yes. For whatever reason, the people who are drawn into liking anime to begin with are also the same people who have a tendency to get completely absorbed into the fictional universes that the anime's create.[/QUOTE] Evidence of this?

[QUOTE=q0q;34810170]Yes. For whatever reason, the people who are drawn into liking anime to begin with are also the same people who have a tendency to get completely absorbed into the fictional universes that the anime's create.[/QUOTE] That's like saying any drawn media concepts do this.

fear of something that is not understood, fear someone will like something not accepted by others. it's just media that does no harm, no reason to "hate" it. [editline]21st February 2012[/editline] really no different than most niche forms of media, you just see a lot more hate of it because the culture has a large internet presence

[QUOTE=q0q;34810170]Yes. For whatever reason, the people who are drawn into liking anime to begin with are also the same people who have a tendency to get completely absorbed into the fictional universes that the anime's create.[/QUOTE] Saying something like this and not providing evidence should really be bannable in mass debate.

[QUOTE=Crimor;34833957]Saying something like this and not providing evidence should really be bannable in mass debate.[/QUOTE] As I've said before, you (not specifically 'you') need to provide evidence when stating things as fact. If you're challenged and still do not, you will be banned.

[QUOTE=Mr.Ken;34480185]In other words you aren't familiar with American TV.[/QUOTE] Most of the American TV stories go round in a circle e.g Simpsons, Family Guy and South Park. Their only redeeming feature is to make people laugh.

[QUOTE=Megafan;34836539]As I've said before, you (not specifically 'you') need to provide evidence when stating things as fact. If you're challenged and still do not, you will be banned.[/QUOTE] What he said doesn't even directly relate to the point of the thread. The topic is anime, not the type of people who enjoy it. That's like saying you hate sports because some fans are obnoxious. It's perfectly acceptable to not watch the sport, but why would you express your dislike of it whenever you see anything or anyone that has something to do with it.

[video=youtube;7b0oQkjup4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0oQkjup4Q[/video] all anime ever

I associate anime with stupid entertainment and I do judge people by their hobbies.

[QUOTE=kaskade700;34838214]I associate anime with stupid entertainment and I do judge people by their hobbies.[/QUOTE] Well wouldnt that make you a pretty short sighted guy? I would hardly consider some of the best anime stupid. But that's ok, its easier to generalize to make a point, huh?

I think that the majority of anime is and will indefinitely be retarded, but that doesn't mean it's all bad. I've watched and enjoyed many good shows from that crowd, but there are so many unusual and idiotic specimens. It's unfair to hate [I]all[/I] anime, but I sympathise with those who do. They just haven't seen the good side yet.

Listen, from now on, no more "x is y" posts in this thread. If you have something to add to the debate then post about it but provide substance. There seems to just be a stream of 'anime is x and that's what I think' posts without any thought put into them. To quote the sticky: [quote]Start 'effort' posting, especially here, because this is definitely the worst place to shitpost. That means no low-content threads or posts.[/quote] [editline]23rd February 2012[/editline] Anyone continuing to post in this manner will receive a ban. You've been warned.

The local anime club was selling cupcakes and I asked them if they came with tentacles. The only guy there said "I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going." And it was hilarious. Long story short, I don't care, it's just fun to poke fun at. The general dislike is probably unwarranted to some degree but most of it is pretty bad and the crowd associated with it is generally unfavourable.

Since so much so the debate seems to centre around dislike of the fanbase, I'd like to ask how bad you think the anime/manga fanbase is and why it should have any bearing you how you view the medium. To use an example, how many of us dislike Star Wars because of the fanbase? Even the dislike of the fanbase, even the most obsessive (weeaboos/otaku) seems unwarranted. They're generally harmless people who are a bit too into their hobbies. For reasons why you might dislike anime that are more unique to anime; culture shock, generally cheaper budgets (evident in animation), bizarre pacing and writing and catering to a niche of a niche - many of these made worse by economic instability. Of course, with the large variation on the genre, between all to none of these things can be present in any one show. However, pick a particular show randomly and more often than not you'll find these problems. Backing up these statements with examples/evidence is difficult without watching a large enough sample of anime and even if I did I am not a particularly good judge of things like writing and pacing. However, I have read reviews and critiques of anime shows by people I believe to be good judges and that is where my above points stem from.

Its simple. The personalities, characteristics, gestures, and the overall tone of anime is unattractive at every level. It doesn't translate well to the western culture. On average, anime tries too be way to exaggerated in its scenes, like when characters express emotion and anime never finds a middle ground. Its either takes itself too seriously or tries to be too cute or is just plain weird. When you grow up, only funny cartoons are worth watching anyway. The worst thing about anime is the quality of the production. Animation is often as low quality as it gets and the story telling is always sub-par. Even if the concept is cool, its usually poorly executed, you're never really surprised and the characters are often setup so poorly you really don't care about what happens next. It seems the only successful anime series in the history of time was dragon ball z for some reason. I loved it and everyone else did. Probably because it didn't suck and was awesome and they shot lasers out of their hands, and fly, and beat the crap out of each other. The story telling in that was pretty awesome too although dragged out. The reason people who like anime get criticized is because these people are often obsessed with the stuff. Anyone who is obsessed with anything gets picked on and its probably for the best because obsessions are generally unhealthy. Plus the average anime goer usually falls under the anti social category or socially odd category.

[QUOTE=Slight;34845619]Its simple. The personalities, characteristics, gestures, and the overall tone of anime is unattractive at every level. It doesn't translate well to the western culture. On average, anime tries too be way to exaggerated in its scenes, like when characters express emotion and anime never finds a middle ground. Its either takes itself too seriously or tries to be too cute or is just plain weird. [/quote] This is a matter of opinion. Simply because you think it's exaggerated or unattractive at every level does not make it so. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]When you grow up, only funny cartoons are worth watching anyway.[/quote] What makes you think so? [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]The worst thing about anime is the quality of the production. Animation is often as low quality as it gets and the story telling is always sub-par.[/quote] I have to disagree. Every show has moments with low-quality animation, but that is a budget issue. You can't expect everything to look like Redline or a Disney movie. The majority of western live-action TV has terrible acting and production values. Yet most people appear enjoy them. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]Even if the concept is cool, its usually poorly executed, you're never really surprised and the characters are often setup so poorly you really don't care about what happens next. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]It seems the only successful anime series in the history of time was dragon ball z for some reason. I loved it and everyone else did. Probably because it didn't suck and was awesome and they shot lasers out of their hands, and fly, and beat the crap out of each other. The story telling in that was pretty awesome too although dragged out.[/quote] On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]The reason people who like anime get criticized is because these people are often obsessed with the stuff. Anyone who is obsessed with anything gets picked on and its probably for the best because obsessions are generally unhealthy. Plus the average anime goer usually falls under the anti social category or socially odd category.[/QUOTE] Do you have anything to back this up with? You're just making assumptions.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845735] On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though.[/QUOTE] I agree. While I loved Dragonball Z as a kid (and I'd probably still enjoy it if I were to watch it today), it's not really all that special. The story is enjoyable, but it's pretty basic. It has an underlying idea of good vs. evil and friendship, and the main reason it's so fun because it has elements that most kids like, like people beating each other up, magic, explosions, dragons etc. While it's fun to watch, it doesn't really have any serious underlying messages like other shows (both western and Japanese) do.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845735]This is a matter of opinion. Simply because you think it's exaggerated or unattractive at every level does not make it so. What makes you think so? I have to disagree. Every show has moments with low-quality animation, but that is a budget issue. You can't expect everything to look like Redline or a Disney movie. The majority of western live-action TV has terrible acting and production values. Yet most people appear enjoy them. On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though. Do you have anything to back this up with? You're just making assumptions.[/QUOTE] Are you looking for a factual argument friend? Everything I just said was of course my opinion, no need to point that out. I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird. Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different". [b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid. One thing you can't do is retroactively change your opinion about a show. If you thought it was good as a kid, you thought it was good period. Pokemon was also cool, but I never really watched the shows. Always thought they were sort of boring.

[QUOTE=Slight;34845798]I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird.[/quote] You notice the most vocal ones, the internet brings them out. For my friends it's just another hobby, they don't talk about anime when around people who don't enjoy / watch it. They don't wear anime-related clothing or join anime internet communities. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who watch anime casually are normal people. [QUOTE=Slight;34845798]Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different".[/quote] See above. The moderate fans don't care about the conventions. [QUOTE=Slight;34845798][b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid.[/quote] I watched DBZ as a kid. I somewhat enjoyed it, less than I enjoy other shows now though. I felt that the ridiculous plotline dragging with power-ups lasting seven episode et cetera was what made it so uninteresting. DBZ was one of the more succesful shows in the west, I agree. It was simple, always had a hook at the end of the episode that kept you returning, and was aimed for kids.

[QUOTE=Slight;34845798]Are you looking for a factual argument friend? Everything I just said was of course my opinion, no need to point that out. I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird. Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different". [b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid. One thing you can't do is retroactively change your opinion about a show. If you thought it was good as a kid, you thought it was good period. Pokemon was also cool, but I never really watched the shows. Always thought they were sort of boring.[/QUOTE] You're in 'mass debate' forum, OF COURSE we're going to point out your opinion and refute it. Tis the nature of a debate forum.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34846279]You're in 'mass debate' forum, OF COURSE we're going to point out your opinion and refute it. Tis the nature of a debate forum.[/QUOTE] Cool story bro, did you forget to make a point? Or is stating obvious facts your strong suite. You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option. [QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845873]You notice the most vocal ones, the internet brings them out. For my friends it's just another hobby, they don't talk about anime when around people who don't enjoy / watch it. They don't wear anime-related clothing or join anime internet communities. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who watch anime casually are normal people.[/quote] Where are they hiding then man? Anime just isn't a normal thing in the west and while its understandable to say "a few make the rest of us look bad", I don't think that's the case. Either way, it all depends on what anime you like I guess. There are some decent, more westernized ones that are more respectable I guess .

[QUOTE=Slight;34857309]You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option.[/QUOTE] uh that's the exact same thing I said.

[QUOTE=Slight;34857309]Cool story bro, did you forget to make a point? Or is stating obvious facts your strong suite. You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option. Where are they hiding then man? Anime just isn't a normal thing in the west and while its understandable to say "a few make the rest of us look bad", I don't think that's the case. Either way, it all depends on what anime you like I guess. There are some decent, more westernized ones that are more respectable I guess .[/QUOTE] what exactly do you mean by, "more westernized"? and how does that make them more or less respectable? this [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Hq2YTGN-_vU/TlKaRlENySI/AAAAAAAABgg/qEHk8h-5xho/s1600/mononoke.jpg[/img] is about as japanese as you can get, and yet is probably more respectable than say, Mad Bull 34