• Bigfoot - Does it Exist?
    225 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35465811]And now you are assuming that these UFOs are extraterrestrials. Why?[/QUOTE] You implied it with "And why should we assume that UFOs share our sense of logic?", by "our" it leads to believe you aren't referring to humans, but to extraterrestrials.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]1) Nobody has claimed this is the case. For all we know, the UFOs could be curious themselves and wanted to see the bigfoot.[/QUOTE] Bringing UFO's into the debate seems very unnecessarily complicated here. I mean, let's explain one unsolved and unprovable mystery at a time. Until there's any proof of either UFO's or Bigfoot, blending them both into the same unsolvable mess when there's not even anything that implies that they have some sort of correlation to each other is simply making an invisible mountain out of an invisible mole hill. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]2) Very strange. Maybe they're extradimensional. Maybe they're holograms. Maybe they're images induced telepathically somehow.[/QUOTE] If we are to believe that they might be extradimensional, we need to actually have some sort of evidence that ANYTHING can be extradimensional. Exact same thing with telepathy, until we can prove telepathy exists, we have no reason to believe that creatures we can't prove exists has technology to create things we can't prove exists. As for holograms... why holograms? What's the point? What is their alibi for using holograms? If we can see no real reason why they would use holograms, why would we assume they use holograms? [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]3) See above.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l189/Simski_2006/ani132.gif[/img] [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]4) Ok. Paranormal then. Happy?[/QUOTE] Synonyms are not scientific evidence. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]5) Because the governemt always tells the truth and discloses everthing they know... yeah right. Maybe they know exactly what it all is about and, naturally, choses not to go out with it. Maybe they are just as perplexed as us. [/QUOTE] In cases like these, I like to think of Murphy's law. The idea that if anything can possible happen, it will undoubtedly happen given enough time. I don't believe the government could ever keep aliens and bigfoot secret from us, because eventually someone would slip the information or accidentally stumble upon it. The fact that despite the large amount of people who claims to have seen aliens and bigfoot, there is not even one of them that has solid evidence to back up their claims. This leads me to believe that if bigfoot exists and if aliens would have visited our planet as many times as people claim, there would at least be one of them that would have gotten their hands on evidence enough to prove their claims. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35459146]He's not a scientist. He's just a reporter/investigator. He collected eye witness reports. He's not jumping to any conclusions. He's merely retelling what people said they witnessed. If you have 2 hours to waste, listen to the podcast. Even if you don't believe in any of that, it's very interesting stuff.[/QUOTE] It may be interesting, but it's nothing really useful. Eyewitness reports have never been too consistent, I doubt most of these people would have assumed what they saw were aliens or bigfoot if they never in their lives had heard about bigfoot and aliens and therefor could not assume what they saw must have been one of these. More likely they saw something they didn't recognize, so they associated what they saw with what people have said about Bigfoot and Aliens.
[QUOTE=Simski;35468951]Bringing UFO's into the debate seems very unnecessarily complicated here. I mean, let's explain one unsolved and unprovable mystery at a time. Until there's any proof of either UFO's or Bigfoot, blending them both into the same unsolvable mess when there's not even anything that implies that they have some sort of correlation to each other is simply making an invisible mountain out of an invisible mole hill. [/QUOTE] It's not complicated at all. It supports the theory that bigfoots might not be physical living creatures. This would answer alot of questions regarding the lack of evidence - something we discussed in this thread before. [QUOTE=Simski;35468951]If we are to believe that they might be extradimensional, we need to actually have some sort of evidence that ANYTHING can be extradimensional. Exact same thing with telepathy, until we can prove telepathy exists, we have no reason to believe that creatures we can't prove exists has technology to create things we can't prove exists.[/QUOTE] It's just one of many ideas. [QUOTE=Simski;35468951] If we can see no real reason why they would use holograms, why would we assume they use holograms?[/QUOTE] We have absolutely no reason to believe that "they" think and function exactly like we do. Whether or not [I]we [/I]can see any reason to use "holograms" is completely irrelevant. [QUOTE=Simski;35468951] I don't believe the government could ever keep aliens and bigfoot secret from us, [B]because eventually someone would slip the information[/B] or accidentally stumble upon it.[/QUOTE] Which is exactly what has happened with ETs. But guess what - very few people take these stories with any kind of seriousness. The rest label them as nutjobs. [QUOTE=Simski;35468951]This leads me to believe that if bigfoot exists and if aliens would have visited our planet as many times as people claim, there would at least be one of them that would have gotten their hands on evidence enough to prove their claims.[/QUOTE] But if the bigfoots aren't physical, how is physical proof for them supposed to look like? [QUOTE=Simski;35468951]More likely they saw something they didn't recognize....[/QUOTE] And the question remains: what was it that people saw?
There are lot of a sightings of foreign looking animals world-wide, so the legitimacy of Bigfoot cannot be established, only understood as a myth.
[quote]It's not complicated at all. It supports the theory that bigfoots might not be physical living creatures. This would answer alot of questions regarding the lack of evidence - something we discussed in this thread before.[/quote] I laughed when you said theory. What you are thinking of is a hypothesis at best. Stop using the wrong terminology you dense fool. A theory is something respectable. Furthermore it answering questions about the lack of evidence seems VERY CONVENIENT. [quote]It's just one of many ideas.[/quote] Unfortunately, the more ideas you have, doesn't make it more real. [quote]We have absolutely no reason to believe that "they" think and function exactly like we do. Whether or not [I]we [/I]can see any reason to use "holograms" is completely irrelevant.[/quote] How convenient for you. [quote]Which is exactly what has happened with ETs. But guess what - very few people take these stories with any kind of seriousness. The rest label them as nutjobs.[/quote] Oh gee I wonder why. [quote]But if the bigfoots aren't physical, how is physical proof for them supposed to look like?[/quote] Well you know, dead bodies? Shit? Bones? Fossils? A DNA SAMPLE?? [quote]And the question remains: what was it that people saw?[/quote] A bear probably. Stop jumping to conclusions.
A bear? Sure, I would assume there were a lot of mistaken identities for a bear, but some things people describe they saw couldn't possibly be a bear. Even some shaky footage/blurry pictures could rule out a bear. Maybe a human in heavy clothing for example could be a possibility for mistaken identity. Also as Dragoshi said, perhaps the reason why we haven't found any evidence is because they [i]do[/i] have some sort of intelligence, and they clean up after themselves, and burry their dead like we do.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;35500417]burry their dead like we do.[/QUOTE] So why can't we find any bodies from anywhere where they might have been?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35500598]So why can't we find any bodies from anywhere where they might have been?[/QUOTE] Where could they have been? The forests up in the mountains, where a lot of sightings come from, and where a lot of them are said to live? Well that's why we don't find the bodies (if they burry them), because as far as I know, we don't go around digging up random spots in the forest.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35500228] Well you know, dead bodies? Shit? Bones? Fossils? A DNA SAMPLE??[/QUOTE] Dead bodies and bones from etheral creatures? Yeah that makes sense..
[QUOTE=Blazyd;35501111]Where could they have been? The forests up in the mountains, where a lot of sightings come from, and where a lot of them are said to live? Well that's why we don't find the bodies (if they burry them), because as far as I know, we don't go around digging up random spots in the forest.[/QUOTE] Well people do dig up the forests a lot. More often than not we have found the following when digging: Fuck all. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35501630]Dead bodies and bones from etheral creatures? Yeah that makes sense..[/QUOTE] How convenient. Then explain "Bigfoot footprints"?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35500228]A bear probably. Stop jumping to conclusions.[/QUOTE] "There was a huge glowing half-sphere floating above the ground. It was red/orangy. And beneath this thing we saw several hairy creatures with green eyes. They started walking towards us. I fired a tracer round and it looked like one of the creatures reached out for the bullet. And just as it did this, all the creatures and the glowing sphere vanished instantaneously." - Multiple witnesses "A state ranger arrived shortly thereafter, and there was still some glowing going on - leftover from that sphere possibly. The police dog refused to enter that area." [B] IT WAS A BEAR. Case closed.[/B] --- "A grandmother was in her home as she heard noise from her front porch. She suspected it was the usual dogs that came to sniff the cans. She loaded her shotgun - she wanted to scare the dogs away with a shot. But as she opened the door she saw this huge hairy bigfoot-like creature with green eyes. In a panic she fired at it. Immideatley in a flash of light, the creature disappeared without a trace. Her family who lived in another house some 300 yards away heard the shot and rang her. She told her what she had seen. The family went outside to look, and they saw several of these creatures wander around the house. They also saw a big UFO hovering above the treelines nearby." [B]BEAR.[/B] --- "One man who had heard of all the fuzz going on didn't believe in any of it. He sat around and basically went like "Come here Bigfoot!" and laughed about it. Later that night he woke up from the sound of someone banging loudly at his door (he lived in a trailer with his wife). He suspected they were muggers and looked out through the window. He saw this huge hairy creature. He couldn't believe his eyes so he woke his wife up. She saw it too. In a desperate attempt to scare it away, he banged back at the door. The creature went away. The next morning they found several strange footprints on the lawn outside." Keep in mind that the witnesses of these incidents were independant from each other. They happened very close to eachother both in time and place.
"There was an alein he gave me children and my dog ran away because there was an alein how do you explain me being pregnant and my dog running away?"-3 witnesses
Could have been a bear mutation but most likely bigfoot already died like years ago.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35501691]"There was a huge glowing half-sphere floating above the ground. It was red/orangy. And beneath this thing we saw several hairy creatures with green eyes. They started walking towards us. I fired a tracer round and it looked like one of the creatures reached out for the bullet. And just as it did this, all the creatures and the glowing sphere vanished instantaneously." - Multiple witnesses "A state ranger arrived shortly thereafter, and there was still some glowing going on - leftover from that sphere possibly. The police dog refused to enter that area." [B] IT WAS A BEAR. Case closed.[/B] --- "A grandmother was in her home as she heard noise from her front porch. She suspected it was the usual dogs that came to sniff the cans. She loaded her shotgun - she wanted to scare the dogs away with a shot. But as she opened the door she saw this huge hairy bigfoot-like creature with green eyes. In a panic she fired at it. Immideatley in a flash of light, the creature disappeared without a trace. Her family who lived in another house some 300 yards away heard the shot and rang her. She told her what she had seen. The family went outside to look, and they saw several of these creatures wander around the house. They also saw a big UFO hovering above the treelines nearby." [B]BEAR.[/B] --- "One man who had heard of all the fuzz going on didn't believe in any of it. He sat around and basically went like "Come here Bigfoot!" and laughed about it. Later that night he woke up from the sound of someone banging loudly at his door (he lived in a trailer with his wife). He suspected they were muggers and looked out through the window. He saw this huge hairy creature. He couldn't believe his eyes so he woke his wife up. She saw it too. In a desperate attempt to scare it away, he banged back at the door. The creature went away. The next morning they found several strange footprints on the lawn outside." Keep in mind that the witnesses of these incidents were independant from each other. They happened very close to eachother both in time and place.[/QUOTE] Sounds certainly trustworthy. Especially seeing as country people who live in the wilderness tend to be trustworthy sources of information on things. Not like we can rely on the evidence compiled by scientists who use the scientific method along with every sane historian or geographer to look at things objectively. You need to make a choice, you could either rely on the collected knowledge of the human race or rely on bullshit.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35501630]Dead bodies and bones from etheral creatures? Yeah that makes sense..[/QUOTE] There is no use in having this discussion if you are going to make up reasons for the existence such as lacking a physical presence.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35501684]Well people do dig up the forests a lot. More often than not we have found the following when digging: Fuck all. [/QUOTE] I have said something relating to the things that people have found when digging if you just put a few.
I would consider the many eyewitness accounts to have at least some credibility if they all matched each other in the descriptions of the supposed bigfoot sighting. There are so many from all over the US that have totally different descriptions of what the person saw. Its worth noting like in the stories above that do match, they have no names, sources, images, video, anything to back them up therefore they have absolutely no credibility; they could have easily been made up or twisted from someone elses words so you cant even confirm them as 'eyewitness accounts', on top of this, it has been proven time and time before in psychology studies that our recording memories in adrenaline filled situations like this are terrible, and often people are highly susceptible to tricking themselves or each other into believing that they saw something they didnt. (An example of this would be that one person could say they saw the creatures having green eyes, and upon hearing that another person could easily change their stored memory and recall + believe what they saw was real) People have a tendancy to see something if they really want to, which can be seen with the boom in bigfoot sightings when the story first became widespread and made a sensation by the media, and just like now, many of the stories come from people who actively try to find bigfoot; I believe many people really think they saw one, but what they saw was the result of their mind telling them what they want to hear. tl;dr there is no argument about this, if you want to [b]prove[/b] that bigfoot exists, there needs to be more scientific evidence to actually show it. What someone claims they saw may influence your belief, but can in no way me used as evidence for the existence of something. Other than that its just going to go in circles with people arguing about what they do or dont believe is true based on gut feeling.
Q: Notice that Bigfoot hunters are usually lower-class. If he did exist, why wouldn't millionaires be jumping at trying to find him? A: No millionaire will ever finance a hunt for Bigfoot because there is a huge probability that it will never be found. Using an oblique reference to Schrodinger's Cat here, [it does not exist until it is observed]. It will not be observed until it is found. It will not be found until financial backing is acquired. And financial backing will not be acquired until it exists. End of discussion. It doesn't exist not because it doesn't, but because it can't, due to a four-part Catch 22 that cannot be broken.
Hell no.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;35513670]Using an oblique reference to Schrodinger's Cat here, [it does not exist until it is observed]. It will not be observed until it is found. It will not be found until financial backing is acquired. And financial backing will not be acquired until it exists. End of discussion. It doesn't exist not because it doesn't, but because it can't, due to a four-part Catch 22 that cannot be broken.[/QUOTE] This is not an argument. It relies on the assumption that it does not exist, and circular logic.
Honestly, I hardly doubt Bigfoot exists. I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but I think this must of have already been said - It was probably some other animal. Heck maybe just a prank some guys decided to do. It's easy to make your own misleading tracks in the woods, and if done cautiously you can easily make a nice footprint. Unless someone can provide me with actual proof that he exists instead of saying "HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS" then I might reconsider about this Bigfoot "mystery"
For the people saying that if there is no proof, he doesn't exist. Alright, where is the proof that God or anything else exists? Personally, I do not believe he exists, I do go by 'I want proof, if there is none, it probably doesn't exist'. Then again, I can hope that there is some sort of god, even if it is just in my mind as motivation, but I will not praise him as all mighty. Anyway, back on topic. It could be possible, but these 'bigfoot' sightings are all over the world.. you'd think that it would be in a isolated place. Either that, or this creature is very.. very.. very.. so very old if it is all over the world, but it would have probably died out by now.
I myself do not believe that bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster or many of the other cryptozoological animals actually exist, but I enjoy getting caught up in the joy of the unknown, no matter how illogical it is. I like the paranormal as a form of escapism, even though I fully know that it is bullshit.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35306057] Another, is that no great bipedal apes live anywhere in the New World. We find creatures like this in the Old World, but no fossils or bones have really been found in the New World to support claims of bigfoot. Given that bears have the ability to stand on hind legs, the sightings are in areas with dark forests and people expect to see it, makes it all the more likely it is a bear instead. [/QUOTE] Humans are bipedal great apes.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;35522739]Humans are bipedal great apes.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but they only got there within the past couple 10,000s of years. Along with frequently appearing in the fossil record, graves, etc and that they are not native to the new world. Bigfoot would be more credible if we found at least a single thighbone or some fragment of a skull.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35522796]Yeah, but they only got there within the past couple 10,000s of years. Along with frequently appearing in the fossil record, graves, etc and that they are not native to the new world. Bigfoot would be more credible if we found at least a single thighbone or some fragment of a skull.[/QUOTE] I'm not defending big foot, as I too doubt his existence; I was just obnoxiously pointing out that you were wrong.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;35522934]I'm not defending big foot, as I too doubt his existence; I was just obnoxiously pointing out that you were wrong.[/QUOTE] Well minus humans for a fraction for geological time. We now got loads of other great apes about the place in zoos too.
[QUOTE=Aoixification;35521532]For the people saying that if there is no proof, he doesn't exist. Alright, where is the proof that God or anything else exists? Personally, I do not believe he exists, I do go by 'I want proof, if there is none, it probably doesn't exist'. Then again, I can hope that there is some sort of god, even if it is just in my mind as motivation, but I will not praise him as all mighty. Anyway, back on topic. It could be possible, but these 'bigfoot' sightings are all over the world.. you'd think that it would be in a isolated place. Either that, or this creature is very.. very.. very.. so very old if it is all over the world, but it would have probably died out by now.[/QUOTE] You do know that not everyone who believes Bigfoot isin't real believes that god is real.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]It's not complicated at all. It supports the theory that bigfoots might not be physical living creatures. This would answer alot of questions regarding the lack of evidence - something we discussed in this thread before.[/QUOTE] If we don't find evidence for the existence of something, we don't use the lack of evidence to come up with ideas to explain why there isn't any evidence, we use the lack of evidence to support the theory that there is nothing there. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]It's just one of many ideas.[/QUOTE] It's an idea without supporting evidence, and any ideas without supporting evidence are not scientifically credible. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]We have absolutely no reason to believe that "they" think and function exactly like we do. Whether or not [I]we [/I]can see any reason to use "holograms" is completely irrelevant. [/QUOTE] No, it is relevant. We have no reason to believe "they" do not think and function like every other animal on earth. Unless we can find supporting evidence that could prove that they do not think and function like every other animal on earth, we have no reason to think they do not. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]Which is exactly what has happened with ETs.[/QUOTE] Eh, I can't remember the plot of that movie. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]But guess what - very few people take these stories with any kind of seriousness. The rest label them as nutjobs. [/QUOTE] Because usually, they are nutjobs. We don't trust sources without proof. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]But if the bigfoots aren't physical, how is physical proof for them supposed to look like?[/QUOTE] Before we assume bigfoots aren't physical, you need some proof that non-physical creatures can and actually do exist. If I tell you to go fetch my carkeys, and you can't find them... do you think I'll believe your claims that they're invisible, or do you think I'll tell you to look harder? [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35498778]And the question remains: what was it that people saw?[/QUOTE] Their imagination. Also, possibly [sp]bears.[/sp] Generally, unless we really can't find any natural explanation what so ever, only then, can we even consider the idea that it was something we haven't seen before.
[QUOTE=thecat100;35523100]You do know that not everyone who believes Bigfoot isin't real believes that god is real.[/QUOTE] Yes, I am fully aware of that. I was pointing out that out to the people that do, as there are a lot of people.
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