Gun Control: Why it is Idiotic - General

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33723236]Yeah that really shows how mature and sensible pro-gun people are :downs:[/QUOTE] Yes brilliant, insult the intelligence of people who believe in their Constitutional rights.

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;33723277]Yes brilliant, insult the intelligence of people who believe in their Constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] He would be right to insult the intelligence of those who see the constitution as an impeccable moral document.

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;33723277]Yes brilliant, insult the intelligence of people who believe in their Constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] um he didn't insult their intelligence, he insulted their maturity and sensibility because they pretend to value political beliefs over the lives of other people.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;33722882]Why would eradicating poverty and social misery be impossible? [/QUOTE] Because it is and I consider it a pipe dream?

[QUOTE=mastermaul;33722952]Distribution of weapons has nothing to do with the causation of crime. Crime is caused because the individual has been put in a situation in which reverting to crime has become the only option that they can fathom. It baffles me at the amount of money spent pointing fingers at glorified hammers and tubes instead of addressing the real problem: a immensely outdated education system and a nation stricken with poverty. This is where crime comes from. This is fact. The only variable we cannot account for is true, physical mental illness, and we shouldn't adopt such a kneejerk reaction and live in fear just because of that possibility. I don't need to justify my rights.[/QUOTE] because fixing the root of the problem would be harder than outlawing guns.

[QUOTE=thisispain;33723610]um he didn't insult their intelligence, he insulted their maturity and sensibility because they pretend to value political beliefs over the lives of other people.[/QUOTE] I believe it was posted in response to his neighbour posting something about him not liking abortion and encouraging people to fuck his wife. Even if the latter was a response to the former, neither of them are very mature in this situation. [editline]14th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33725221]because fixing the root of the problem would be harder than outlawing guns.[/QUOTE] That doesn't stop the reason the outlaw needs/wants the gun though, and he doesn't care if the gun's outlawed, he'll use it anyways.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33728008]I believe it was posted in response to his neighbour posting something about him not liking abortion and encouraging people to fuck his wife. Even if the latter was a response to the former, neither of them are very mature in this situation. [editline]14th December 2011[/editline] That doesn't stop the reason the outlaw needs/wants the gun though, and he doesn't care if the gun's outlawed, he'll use it anyways.[/QUOTE] sorry, that was sarcasm. I'm pro-gun rights.

[QUOTE=fox '09;33713023]To me gun control only goes as far as to prohibit the sale of firearms to anyone convicted of a violent crime of any sort, including rape. Perhaps the definition of violent crime could be narrowed, and I'm obviously not someone who has studied law so I'm not in the position to define that properly. Now mental instability rules needs good oversight but otherwise I'm in favor of it. Just like we imprison criminals to separate them from society (primarily I would argue), we can bar people who are mentally unstable from having weapons. Gun control isn't necessarily the prohibition of guns, and I think that is overlooked too often. It may cost money, people, and mistakes, but I think it is a reasonable approach to how to handle firearms in society. now, my position aside, I hate how people use children killing people or themselves with firearms to further their argument/agenda. It doesn't happen often, and we have a reason we have laws on child molestation etc, because children cannot reason at the level adults are able to. What the punishment for the parents should be is another question that I don't really have an opinion on[/QUOTE] I agree, in fact most of the time people being killed inside their house with their own firearms is there fault. Idiots say that we need to outlaw guns because kids kill their parents and stuff with them is idiotic. Things like that happen because of the carelessness of the parents leaving guns in unlocked cabinets and giving shotguns to their kids for their birthday.

One thing annoys me more than any other in this debate That those against gun control seem to believe that owning a gun is a universal right. I'm not a huge fan of guns, I can accept them in necessary cases, but I don't want guns in my possesion, or anywhere near me. I don't care about the fact you were raised around them, just keep them away from me. For that matter, why don't you guys consider excercising your constitutional right for once. I see a huge amount of dissent in news threads about American politics, yet no one seems to do anything but bitch.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;33751006]One thing annoys me more than any other in this debate That those against gun control seem to believe that owning a gun is a universal right. I'm not a huge fan of guns, I can accept them in necessary cases, but I don't want guns in my possesion, or anywhere near me. I don't care about the fact you were raised around them, just keep them away from me. For that matter, why don't you guys consider excercising your constitutional right for once. I see a huge amount of dissent in news threads about American politics, yet no one seems to do anything but bitch.[/QUOTE] Exactly, why don't they try and exercise the rights they so much try to defend.

You know what, my family just bought our second Chinese AK last weekend, and it is fun as hell to shoot. We did not buy it for the purpose of home defense, we bought it for the fact that it was a good price, and our first one was already a lot of fun. Same with our Mosins, etc. The guns we keep for defense are locked up and hidden away, and kept unloaded in most situations. We live in a small town in the Northeast US, but as my father is an ex-cop, he likes to keep guns around, and wants to make sure all of us know gun etiquette. Myself, I'm not big into guns, I don't want 17 of them in my apartment or home. However, what I do want is a reliable handgun that I know how to use, and is fun to shoot. Something that is good for target as well as defense, and if the situation arises, I can rely on to function properly. I'm not like my family. I'm not super wary of the government, I don't stock tons of food in the basement because I'm afraid of some sort of manmade disaster, however I would like to keep a gun in my home. Simply for the same reason I carry a window breaker/seatbelt cutter. I don't ever want to be in the situation where I am forced to use it, but I would like to have it nonetheless.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33751488]Exactly, why don't they try and exercise the rights they so much try to defend.[/QUOTE] the problem is that that's what congress can't seem to get in their heads. We want to exercise our constitutional but congress wants more and more gun control which make it harder and harder to exercise our right. We wouldn't be "bitching" about it if congress would just back off and enforce the gun control laws we already have.

[QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33752604]the problem is that that's what congress can't seem to get in their heads. We want to exercise our constitutional but congress wants more and more gun control which make it harder and harder to exercise our right. We wouldn't be "bitching" about it if congress would just back off and enforce the gun control laws we already have.[/QUOTE] Look, right fucking now is the best Goddamn time to use the Second Amendment for what it was designed for, keeping a corrupt government in line, and you're doing fuck-all about it. Your country is about to get turned into China, with disgusting censorship of the internet at the discretion of greedy corporations, and Senate electing to have a military police state enforced on American soil resulting in the indefinite detention of American citizens, if there was ever a fucking time to use that amendment to save your fucking country it's now, but all of you lazy assholes are just sitting there, expecting the idiots at congress to have sense and just watching the fucking world burn. I don't think protests are going to cut it anymore, you need to exercise your Second Amendment right by starting an armed riot on the steps of the capitol, it's the only way your congress and senate will listen to you anymore, and remember that YOU have the power to kick them out of office and YOU are the ones who run the country. They're not talking about gun control, they're talking about the purpose of the Second Amendment, and how people keep saying "It's there to help us overthrow an oppressive government," and yet the government is at its most corrupt and oppressive it's ever been and you do FUCK ALL about it. Stop fucking sitting around, e-mailing or petitioning a corrupt asshole of a senator/congressman won't do fuck all to stop them voting for a piece of oppressive shit that defies your constitution, or the First Amendment, they need to be reminded of why the Second one exists, and that they're not there to be bought out by greedy asshole corporations, they're there to be YOUR voice. Stop talking about why the Second Amendment exists if you're not going to use it, and right now is the fucking time to use it, if not to eliminate congress and senate then to scare them, and remind them you're watching, and if they get out of line, they're done.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33753205]Look, right fucking now is the best Goddamn time to use the Second Amendment for what it was designed for, keeping a corrupt government in line, and you're doing fuck-all about it. Your country is about to get turned into China, with disgusting censorship of the internet at the discretion of greedy corporations, and Senate electing to have a military police state enforced on American soil resulting in the indefinite detention of American citizens, if there was ever a fucking time to use that amendment to save your fucking country it's now, but all of you lazy assholes are just sitting there, expecting the idiots at congress to have sense and just watching the fucking world burn. I don't think protests are going to cut it anymore, you need to exercise your Second Amendment right by starting an armed riot on the steps of the capitol, it's the only way your congress and senate will listen to you anymore, and remember that YOU have the power to kick them out of office and YOU are the ones who run the country. They're not talking about gun control, they're talking about the purpose of the Second Amendment, and how people keep saying "It's there to help us overthrow an oppressive government," and yet the government is at its most corrupt and oppressive it's ever been and you do FUCK ALL about it. Stop fucking sitting around, e-mailing or petitioning a corrupt asshole of a senator/congressman won't do fuck all to stop them voting for a piece of oppressive shit that defies your constitution, or the First Amendment, they need to be reminded of why the Second one exists, and that they're not there to be bought out by greedy asshole corporations, they're there to be YOUR voice. Stop talking about why the Second Amendment exists if you're not going to use it, and right now is the fucking time to use it, if not to eliminate congress and senate then to scare them, and remind them you're watching, and if they get out of line, they're done.[/QUOTE] You sir are completely idiotic. What you're saying is what is happening in greece, and all over the middle east. You seriously expect everyone to take guns and start shooting up the capitol??!! Your fucking insane! Thats what gets countries even deeper into trouble! We're having a new election in 2012, and if newt gingrich or mitt romney get elected I am sure without a doubt this country will get back on track. You're like an anarchist or something, who thinks that all problems can be solved using weapons and not diplomacy. Your ideas will make this country into a horrible rubble. Get your mind fixed.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33753205]Look, right fucking now is the best Goddamn time to use the Second Amendment for what it was designed for, keeping a corrupt government in line, and you're doing fuck-all about it. Your country is about to get turned into China, with disgusting censorship of the internet at the discretion of greedy corporations, and Senate electing to have a military police state enforced on American soil resulting in the indefinite detention of American citizens, if there was ever a fucking time to use that amendment to save your fucking country it's now, but all of you lazy assholes are just sitting there, expecting the idiots at congress to have sense and just watching the fucking world burn. I don't think protests are going to cut it anymore, you need to exercise your Second Amendment right by starting an armed riot on the steps of the capitol, it's the only way your congress and senate will listen to you anymore, and remember that YOU have the power to kick them out of office and YOU are the ones who run the country. They're not talking about gun control, they're talking about the purpose of the Second Amendment, and how people keep saying "It's there to help us overthrow an oppressive government," and yet the government is at its most corrupt and oppressive it's ever been and you do FUCK ALL about it. Stop fucking sitting around, e-mailing or petitioning a corrupt asshole of a senator/congressman won't do fuck all to stop them voting for a piece of oppressive shit that defies your constitution, or the First Amendment, they need to be reminded of why the Second one exists, and that they're not there to be bought out by greedy asshole corporations, they're there to be YOUR voice. Stop talking about why the Second Amendment exists if you're not going to use it, and right now is the fucking time to use it, if not to eliminate congress and senate then to scare them, and remind them you're watching, and if they get out of line, they're done.[/QUOTE] You realize you just proposed an armed rebellion to a problem that can be solved peacefully, right? Shit is fucked up in this country, but its not bad enough that we need to start riding up to the capitol building and start killing people. Its not that bad, yet.

[QUOTE=EagleEye;33753563]You realize you just proposed an armed rebellion to a problem that can be solved peacefully, right? Shit is fucked up in this country, but its not bad enough that we need to start riding up to the capitol building and start killing people. Its not that bad, yet.[/QUOTE] I'm not too sure about that.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33753652]I'm not too sure about that.[/QUOTE] Then I invite you to come over here and start it. I have a good life, it sure as hell isn't worth throwing away because some shit has gone wrong. Its really easy to sit in the Netherlands, or Canada and say "WELL THOSE AMERICANS HAVE GUNS FOR A REASON, THEY SHOULD GO FUCK SHIT UP" But in reality it isn't that fucking easy. I know this may shock some of you, but you can get in some serious shit for doing that. We have guns to use them if it is needed, the only time I think its needed is in the event of martial law or total social collapse. Now, I'm not saying I'm happy with how stuff is going, but it sure as hell doesn't warrant an armed rebellion. Period.

[QUOTE=EagleEye;33753869]Then I invite you to come over here and start it. I have a good life, it sure as hell isn't worth throwing away because some shit has gone wrong. Its really easy to sit in the Netherlands, or Canada and say "WELL THOSE AMERICANS HAVE GUNS FOR A REASON, THEY SHOULD GO FUCK SHIT UP" But in reality it isn't that fucking easy. I know this may shock some of you, but you can get in some serious shit for doing that. We have guns to use them if it is needed, the only time I think its needed is in the event of martial law or total social collapse. Now, I'm not saying I'm happy with how stuff is going, but it sure as hell doesn't warrant an armed rebellion. Period.[/QUOTE] Uh I'm not American if you hadn't noticed.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33753899]Uh I'm not American if you hadn't noticed.[/QUOTE] "Netherlands"

[QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33753297]You sir are completely idiotic. What you're saying is what is happening in greece, and all over the middle east. You seriously expect everyone to take guns and start shooting up the capitol??!! Your fucking insane! Thats what gets countries even deeper into trouble! We're having a new election in 2012, and if newt gingrich or mitt romney get elected I am sure without a doubt this country will get back on track. You're like an anarchist or something, who thinks that all problems can be solved using weapons and not diplomacy. Your ideas will make this country into a horrible rubble. Get your mind fixed.[/QUOTE] You're calling me idiotic and yet you're supporting the Republicans? They're the reason your country is fucked, they're bought out by corporations and not letting the democrats pass anything. Moreover, you keep arguing about your Second Amendment and what it's there for, I just fucking told you what it's there for, and I can guarantee you without a democrat majority in the House and Senate next election, your country will only descend farther into a police state. The point of the Second is to give you the ability to have an armed rebellion, to keep the government in check and remind them you're the ones in power, not them. It seems now congress and the senate have forgotten that fact, and I doubt anything at this point except scaring the shit out of them will make them remember. If SOPA and the NDAA pass, your country will be no better in terms of freedom than China, one of the most widely known oppressive dictatorships. Land of the free my ass. If you love your Second fucking amendment so Goddamn much why are you so afraid to talk about one of its main purposes? And I'm not the first to talk about this intention of the amendment, Penn and Teller did in a series they did called "Bullshit about Guns." Your congress and senate need a fucking wakeup call, and 2012's election may be too late. Your democratic system is fundamentally flawed anyways, and goes against what your founding fathers believed in. They made it so any man can run for President, and it turned into the leader of one of two parties can run for president. You need a third, at least, party to even out the mix and bring some sense and third opinion into your congress, else it'll be the same corrupt fucks who keep getting re-elected, and you'll all be too scared to think about what you truly can do about it. I don't think anyone will disagree that the US is fucked and getting worse, they will, however, disagree about methods of trying to save it. I'm suggesting a strong reminder to congress that if they step out of line, they're done. Show up there with guns, and sit on capitol hill, chanting something like "We're watching." Congress would shit a brick, and that's what they need, something to make them shit a brick, and shock them back into remembering they are supposed to serve the people, not the corporations. By the time it gets bad enough that you'll need to actually take up arms and shoot something, you may not be able to. If you think gun control is bad there now, after this it can only get worse, and guns are the next thing I can see being on the chopping block after they pass SOPA and the NDAA. I'm not telling you to kill congress, not yet, I'm telling you to scare them. They need a wakeup call, hell, they've needed one since the Patriot Act. Saying shit like this is covered under your first amendment, as Penn and Teller reminded everyone at the end of their program. If the amendment isn't used for what it's designed for, why have it in the first place? Stand up and fucking do something, before it's too late, which it may already be, SPOA gets voted on today. Or, if you don't want to see if your likely corrupt congressman will do anything, or senator, by contacting them, and you're not willing to stand up and at least protest the slow destruction of your country and its ideals, you could always sit around and, like everyone else, say "It'll never pass," and then when it does continue to do nothing while your freedoms continue to be robbed from you. If you don't stand up now, I have a feeling your "right" to bear arms will be next on the list of things to restrict/eliminate, and by then it may be too late to stand up, as those who so will be locked away forever under the NDAA provisions for even suggesting doing something against the government, an ability supposedly protected by your First Amendment.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33755372]You're calling me idiotic and yet you're supporting the Republicans? They're the reason your country is fucked, they're bought out by corporations and not letting the democrats pass anything. Moreover, you keep arguing about your Second Amendment and what it's there for, I just fucking told you what it's there for, and I can guarantee you without a democrat majority in the House and Senate next election, your country will only descend farther into a police state. The point of the Second is to give you the ability to have an armed rebellion, to keep the government in check and remind them you're the ones in power, not them. It seems now congress and the senate have forgotten that fact, and I doubt anything at this point except scaring the shit out of them will make them remember. If SOPA and the NDAA pass, your country will be no better in terms of freedom than China, one of the most widely known oppressive dictatorships. Land of the free my ass. If you love your Second fucking amendment so Goddamn much why are you so afraid to talk about one of its main purposes? And I'm not the first to talk about this intention of the amendment, Penn and Teller did in a series they did called "Bullshit about Guns." Your congress and senate need a fucking wakeup call, and 2012's election may be too late. Your democratic system is fundamentally flawed anyways, and goes against what your founding fathers believed in. They made it so any man can run for President, and it turned into the leader of one of two parties can run for president. You need a third, at least, party to even out the mix and bring some sense and third opinion into your congress, else it'll be the same corrupt fucks who keep getting re-elected, and you'll all be too scared to think about what you truly can do about it. I don't think anyone will disagree that the US is fucked and getting worse, they will, however, disagree about methods of trying to save it. I'm suggesting a strong reminder to congress that if they step out of line, they're done. Show up there with guns, and sit on capitol hill, chanting something like "We're watching." Congress would shit a brick, and that's what they need, something to make them shit a brick, and shock them back into remembering they are supposed to serve the people, not the corporations. By the time it gets bad enough that you'll need to actually take up arms and shoot something, you may not be able to. If you think gun control is bad there now, after this it can only get worse, and guns are the next thing I can see being on the chopping block after they pass SOPA and the NDAA. I'm not telling you to kill congress, not yet, I'm telling you to scare them. They need a wakeup call, hell, they've needed one since the Patriot Act. Saying shit like this is covered under your first amendment, as Penn and Teller reminded everyone at the end of their program. If the amendment isn't used for what it's designed for, why have it in the first place? Stand up and fucking do something, before it's too late, which it may already be, SPOA gets voted on today. Or, if you don't want to see if your likely corrupt congressman will do anything, or senator, by contacting them, and you're not willing to stand up and at least protest the slow destruction of your country and its ideals, you could always sit around and, like everyone else, say "It'll never pass," and then when it does continue to do nothing while your freedoms continue to be robbed from you. If you don't stand up now, I have a feeling your "right" to bear arms will be next on the list of things to restrict/eliminate, and by then it may be too late to stand up, as those who so will be locked away forever under the NDAA provisions for even suggesting doing something against the government, an ability supposedly protected by your First Amendment.[/QUOTE] By "your country is fucked" I assume you mean in terms of both the economy and the NDAA/SOPA bills? First of all, the economy got this way not by Republicans, but because of the manipulation of subprime loans to earn a profit from failure, but that is a debate for another day. Saying that only Republicans are bought out is a fallacy. I can say without a shred of doubt that there are plenty of Democrat Senators and Representatives who are bought. This would be why bills like the NDAA and SOPA receive such bipartisan support. In my opinion, the 2nd amendment is a great thing that we should enjoy. You know the old saying, "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns." One of the reasons I like the amendment is imagine if the U.S. got invaded, not only would the attacking force have to deal with the might of the U.S. military, they would also have the problem of every self-proclaimed "patriot" in the nation taking potshots at them whenever given the chance. Allow me to bring up something known as the Truman Doctrine. [QUOTE=Harry S. Truman]At the present moment in world history nearly every nation must choose between alternative ways of life. The choice is too often not a free one. One way of life is based upon the will of the majority, and is distinguished by free institutions, representative government, free elections, guarantees of individual liberty, freedom of speech and religion, and freedom from political oppression. The second way of life is based upon the will of a minority forcibly imposed upon the majority. It relies upon terror and oppression, a controlled press and radio; fixed elections, and the suppression of personal freedoms. [B]I believe that it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures.[/B] I believe that we must assist free peoples to work out their own destinies in their own way.[/QUOTE] Showing up on Capitol Hill would paint a horribly wrong picture of what a movement is trying to accomplish. Generally, what I want accomplished in this country is: An end to corporate personhood and a fair election process that replaces FPTP with a better alternative. Multiple parties of relatively equal power in government Legislation and encouragement from government to make America manufacture more goods, increase exports, and support a green economy. And that's all I can recall at the moment. Showing up with guns and making demands is no different than the actions of any terrorist organizations out there. The fact is, no matter how strongly you feel or support something there will be people who disagree with you. If we did that now, the media would label us criminals and we'd be thrown in jail, with the rest of America [B]glad[/B] we're locked away. The proper, no, the only way we can enact real change in this country is to enlighten our fellow Americans and educate them on the horrors our government is subjecting us to and why they should stand with us against it. Only through supporting independents, people with no obligations to party standards or blocs, can we get through this. And then, if they continue to take corporate money and fail to listen to us, then we will still not act rashly. We should instigate what Occupy Wall Street is currently doing, but on a much larger scale. [drama] [B]CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.[/B] At that point it would be clear that only by running this country into the ground, can it rise into the heavens. [/drama]

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33753205]Look, right fucking now is the best Goddamn time to use the Second Amendment for what it was designed for, keeping a corrupt government in line, and you're doing fuck-all about it. Your country is about to get turned into China, with disgusting censorship of the internet at the discretion of greedy corporations, and Senate electing to have a military police state enforced on American soil resulting in the indefinite detention of American citizens, if there was ever a fucking time to use that amendment to save your fucking country it's now, but all of you lazy assholes are just sitting there, expecting the idiots at congress to have sense and just watching the fucking world burn. I don't think protests are going to cut it anymore, you need to exercise your Second Amendment right by starting an armed riot on the steps of the capitol, it's the only way your congress and senate will listen to you anymore, and remember that YOU have the power to kick them out of office and YOU are the ones who run the country. They're not talking about gun control, they're talking about the purpose of the Second Amendment, and how people keep saying "It's there to help us overthrow an oppressive government," and yet the government is at its most corrupt and oppressive it's ever been and you do FUCK ALL about it. Stop fucking sitting around, e-mailing or petitioning a corrupt asshole of a senator/congressman won't do fuck all to stop them voting for a piece of oppressive shit that defies your constitution, or the First Amendment, they need to be reminded of why the Second one exists, and that they're not there to be bought out by greedy asshole corporations, they're there to be YOUR voice. Stop talking about why the Second Amendment exists if you're not going to use it, and right now is the fucking time to use it, if not to eliminate congress and senate then to scare them, and remind them you're watching, and if they get out of line, they're done.[/QUOTE] Yeah, we should revolt because of a bill that allows the U.S. army to detain FOREIGNERS, not U.S. citizens. And do you really think we can take down the U.S. Army? we have the greatest Army in the world. The U.S. is not becoming a police state, and a revolution will do jack shit. [editline]16th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33753297]You sir are completely idiotic. What you're saying is what is happening in greece, and all over the middle east. You seriously expect everyone to take guns and start shooting up the capitol??!! Your fucking insane! Thats what gets countries even deeper into trouble! We're having a new election in 2012, and if newt gingrich or mitt romney get elected I am sure without a doubt this country will get back on track. You're like an anarchist or something, who thinks that all problems can be solved using weapons and not diplomacy. Your ideas will make this country into a horrible rubble. Get your mind fixed.[/QUOTE] anarchists are mostly anti-violence.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;33751006]For that matter, why don't you guys consider excercising your constitutional right for once. I see a huge amount of dissent in news threads about American politics, yet no one seems to do anything but bitch.[/QUOTE] They don't do anything but bitch because they have had the belief that they can't do anything instilled in them. You have to face the facts that, historically, the masses have been for the most part complacent, unintelligent, and willing to give up freedoms for a sense of security. This still applies to this day. The small groups of people who understand that the people, through sheer numbers, have the final say in government and are willing to fight to keep the government in place are too low in number, often branded "fanatics" (no matter their political nature) because they don't conform to the popular practice of complacency and indifference. The general public is without foresight. The only time the masses ever take meaningful (violent) action against their government is long after they have been pushed too far. [editline]16th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33753297]We're having a new election in 2012, and if newt gingrich or mitt romney get elected I am sure without a doubt this country will get back on track.[/QUOTE] I'm honestly not sure where you get the idea that the president has enough power to drastically change things in such ways.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33759455]Yeah, we should revolt because of a bill that allows the U.S. army to detain FOREIGNERS, not U.S. citizens. And do you really think we can take down the U.S. Army? we have the greatest Army in the world. The U.S. is not becoming a police state, and a revolution will do jack shit. [editline]16th December 2011[/editline] anarchists are mostly anti-violence.[/QUOTE] No I'm pretty sure the bill allows the military to detain US citizens too.

He can veto stupid laws. where is rating?

[QUOTE=cpt.armadillo;33759960]He can veto stupid laws.[/QUOTE] Which can then be voted on again and passed. If there's already a majority holding his power to veto makes absolutely no difference.

[QUOTE=cpt.armadillo;33759960]He can veto stupid laws. where is rating?[/QUOTE] He has already said he won't veto NDAA..

[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;33706702]The only problem that occurs without gun control are stupid people, who carry guns to kill people, or leave them out so their kids blow their brains out, or they get shot in the leg because they stick it in their waist. The small percentage of idiots makes guns look bad. I'm no gun freak but I love old guns But those are terrible arguements[/QUOTE] Accelerated natural selection. Putting laws in place won't change that.

[QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33753297]We're having a new election in 2012, and if newt gingrich or mitt romney get elected I am sure without a doubt this country will get back on track.[/QUOTE] As much as I dislike your choice of president for the election, I do not believe the problems are necessarily stemming from the Executive Branch, but from the Legislative. Too many congressmen are bought and there are deep divides between Democrats and Republicans on key issues, causing nothing major to get done.

I mean sorry to be the bearer of bad news, people, but people die. Shocker, isn't it? Saying "You can't do that!" won't change anything. And if you think it will, well, think again. Criminals will still do it and not get caught, while innocent people will trip the wire accidentally and go to jail for things they didn't mean to do.