Gun Control: Why it is Idiotic - General

[QUOTE=Aman VII;33709605]The source? Human fucking nature. What do you think if guns disappeared murder wouldn't exist? Damn I get in ancient history no one killed each other ever they just linked arms and did cartwheels[/QUOTE] Were did I say that? And that's still no source.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709612]That's not a source.[/QUOTE] it's common sense. How would you get a source for it?

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;33709585]I met some people from England who were visiting the United States. The moment someone brought up hunting, they realized that weapon ownership was legal in the United States, and they were visibly afraid. If I recall correctly, one of them even said, "What if someone shoots us?".[/QUOTE] wasn't it just last year some mentally disturbed person got a gun a shot a female politician in the head? why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that can happen so easily

[QUOTE=joe588;33709172]ok get a deactivated one [/QUOTE] Yeah but that takes half the fun out of it :v: Thats like owning a really sweet classic car that you restored yourself and not being allowed to drive it.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;33709585]I met some people from England who were visiting the United States. The moment someone brought up hunting, they realized that weapon ownership was legal in the United States, and they were visibly afraid. If I recall correctly, one of them even said, "What if someone shoots us?".[/QUOTE] also you know hunting with guns is legal in the UK right, in fact most of the people with guns are farmers with rifles

[QUOTE=bye;33709626]wasn't it just last year some mentally disturbed person got a gun a shot a female politician in the head? why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that can happen so easily[/QUOTE] That's why we need laws that stop the mentally disturbed from getting guns, while allowing regular humans to get guns.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709614]I never said they would kill with bows. I said all the gun owners would buy bows. Gun owners are not murders. also, How am I suppose to get a source on common sense? Bows are a predecessor to guns. If their guns are taken away, of course they would go back to the next closest thing.[/QUOTE] You can't assume that. [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2011-12-14_0154.png[/img] You might want to check what you actually responded to before you say stuff.

[QUOTE=bye;33709626]wasn't it just last year some mentally disturbed person got a gun a shot a female politician in the head? why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that can happen so easily[/QUOTE] In Port Arthur didn't some autistic ginger shoot 30+ people? Damn why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that happen. I'm joking, but what I'm saying is TRAGEDIES AND ANOMALIES HAPPEN. There is no 100% no crime pill that a country can take.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709644]That's why we need laws that stop the mentally disturbed from getting guns, while allowing regular humans to get guns.[/QUOTE] Which is called gun control... Can you not read or something?

[QUOTE=ThatIrishSOB;33706572]So I checked my email yesterday and one of my close friends sent me an email that made me realize how idiotic gun control is. The email contained some fun facts, so here it is: 1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. 2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. 3. Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. 4. If guns are outlawed can we use swords? 5. If guns cause crime than pencils cause misspelled words. 6. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms. 7. If you don't know your rights you don't have any. 8. THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION 9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither. 10. The second amendment is in place in case politicians ignore the others. 11. 65,000,000 firearm owners killed no one yesterday. 12. Guns only have two enemies- Rust and Politicians. 13. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive. 14. Assault is a behavior, not a device. 15. Criminals love gun control, it makes their jobs safer. 16. If guns cause crime than matches cause arson. 17. Only a government who is afraid of it's citizens tries to control them. 18. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for. 19. Enforce the gun laws WE ALREADY HAVE, don't make more. 20. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control. 21. When you remove the right to bear arms you create slaves. 22. Outlawing guns will create an illegal firearm market, just like drugs and alchohol during the Prohibition. Thank you.[/QUOTE] Other countries like Australia do quite alright without guns, we're not slaves or mind controlled drones. You make this sound like the end of the world, you have gun laws now yet you have high crime rates

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709659]Which is called gun control... Can you not read or something?[/QUOTE] A political issue isn't on or off, 1 or 2. There's many shades of gun control

[quote=The Daily Mail]Gun crime is up by more than half and there are more than 100 serious knife crimes each day, with fatal stabbings having reached the highest level on record. [/quote] [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208782/Britains-drug-gun-culture-bad-U-S-crime-The-Wire-say-Tories.html[/url] [quote=Below Source] In or about 2006, there were about 60 million (actually closer to 58M, but we'll use the rounded-up number to be kind to hopolophobes) people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland. In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163 thousand knife crimes. By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole. In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes. In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down). In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually). That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US. [/quote] [url]http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323[/url]

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709646]You can't assume that. [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2011-12-14_0154.png[/img] You might want to check what you actually responded to before you say stuff.[/QUOTE] I was responding to "is it as easy as killing someone with a gun? do billions of people own one? Do many people get killed by bows?". The only reason "billions" of people don't own bows is that they are outdated.

[QUOTE=Aman VII;33709653]In Port Arthur didn't some autistic ginger shoot 30+ people? Damn why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that happen. I'm joking, but what I'm saying is TRAGEDIES AND ANOMALIES HAPPEN. There is no 100% no crime pill that a country can take.[/QUOTE] oh and look at my country's stance on semi and automatic weapons now!

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709659]Which is called gun control... Can you not read or something?[/QUOTE] Which America (and I think all countries) have already. The Gun Control argument is over whether or not guns should be controlled MORE, e.g. illegalized.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709659]Which is called gun control... Can you not read or something?[/QUOTE] You could leave the childish insults out of your arguments.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709659]Which is called gun control... Can you not read or something?[/QUOTE] The issue is more that the guns themselves get banned. Some crazy does something stupid with a handgun: ban handguns and prevent even legitimate owners from having them, as opposed to beefing up laws that prevent mentally ill people from getting guns.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709689]I was responding to "is it as easy as killing someone with a gun? do billions of people own one? Do many people get killed by bows?". The only reason "billions" of people don't own bows is that they are outdated.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709614][b]I never said they would kill with bows.[/b] I said all the gun owners would buy bows. Gun owners are not murders. also, How am I suppose to get a source on common sense? Bows are a predecessor to guns. If their guns are taken away, of course they would go back to the next closest thing.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709407] [b]Is it as easy as killing someone with a gun? Do billions of people own one? Do many people get killed by bows?[/b][/QUOTE] Where in my post do you see me use the word "buy"? I'm talking about killing, you respond with "they'll use bows". <= They'll use bows to kill. You said that, learn to read.

If they ban guns it won't stop anyone from getting them. Its like illicit drugs such as marijuana and meth. If you want it you can find it. They can make it harder to legally own a gun to prevent stupid people from getting one, But a criminal would likely look elsewhere for a gun other than the legal way anyways.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709705]Which America (and I think all countries) have already. The Gun Control argument is over whether or not guns should be controlled MORE, e.g. illegalized.[/QUOTE] Could you point out where in the OP that is written? [editline]14th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=zarthalan;33709770]If they ban guns it won't stop anyone from getting them. Its like illicit drugs such as marijuana and meth. If you want it you can find it. They can make it harder to legally own a gun to prevent stupid people from getting one, But a criminal would likely look elsewhere for a gun other than the legal way anyways.[/QUOTE] A criminal is less likely to want/need a gun if a normal citizens don't have them, thus decreasing gun crime.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709772]Could you point out where in the OP that is written?[/QUOTE] It's pretty obvious.

[QUOTE=bye;33709703]oh and look at my country's stance on semi and automatic weapons now![/QUOTE] To me it makes more sense to just make them much much harder to get than to outright ban them. Like, here in the states, we [I]can[/I] get automatic weapons and even things like cannons and howitzers (In most states), you just have to have a very clean background, get approval from some form of law enforcement, and go through a lengthy waiting period. I say thats the best way, because then the people who want to use them legitimately [I]can[/I] get them, and some crazy who whats to go shoot up a political rally wont be able to.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709745]Where in my post do you see me use the word "buy"? I'm talking about killing, you respond with "they'll use bows". <= They'll use bows to kill. You said that, learn to read.[/QUOTE] Well you said billions of people own them, I assumed that they were bought. Guns would still be used to kill people, because of the black market. All banning them would do is make hunters and hobbyists switch to bow and arrows. That is the point I have been trying to make. Next time I'll say things nice and simple so you can understand. [editline]13th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709772]Could you point out where in the OP that is written?[/QUOTE] [quote]19. Enforce the gun laws WE ALREADY HAVE, don't make more.[/quote]

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33709684][url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208782/Britains-drug-gun-culture-bad-U-S-crime-The-Wire-say-Tories.html[/url] [url]http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323[/url][/QUOTE] [quote=Crime in England and Wales: Quarterly Update to June 2011] • Based on British Crime Survey (BCS) interviews in the year to June 2011, there was no statistically significant change in the estimated number of crimes compared with the year ending June 2010. However, the number of crimes recorded by the police fell by four per cent in the year ending June 2011 compared with a year earlier. • In the year ending June 2011, there were decreases in all the main police recorded crime offence groups except robbery and other theft offences (which increased by 3% and 5% respectively). There was a two per cent rise in the most serious sexual crimes recorded by the police compared with the previous year. • Levels of overall BCS household crime and BCS personal crimes showed no statistically significant change compared with the previous year. However, BCS household acquisitive crime increased by seven per cent. This increase was largely attributable to a 13 per cent rise in other household theft. • Police recorded domestic burglaries fell by three per cent while the apparent ten per cent rise in BCS estimates was not statistically significant. There was no change in the level of other burglaries recorded by the police. • Levels of BCS violent crime showed no statistically significant change compared with the previous year while violence against the person offences recorded by the police fell by eight per cent. • Both series showed marked falls in vandalism offences, with BCS vandalism down nine per cent compared with the previous year and police recorded criminal damage down 12 per cent. • There was a 16 per cent fall in firearm offences recorded by the police compared with the previous 12 months. • BCS interviews showed that 54 per cent of people agreed that the police and local council were dealing with the anti-social behaviour and crime issues that mattered in their area, up from 52 per cent in the previous year.[/quote] [url=http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb1611/hosb1611?view=Binary]Source is the Home Office[/url] So I'd say the UK is dealing with violent crime fairly well.

[QUOTE=bye;33709626]wasn't it just last year some mentally disturbed person got a gun a shot a female politician in the head? why wouldn't you be worried in a country where things like that can happen so easily[/QUOTE] the reason why he was able to go out and do what he did is because of a failure of our own systems for the mentally handicapped. many people knew that he was dangerous and a nutjob, but nobody did anything and so he was able to go out and do what he did. banning guns won't stop shit like this from happening, it'll just make the people doing them either find a different way to get a gun or using something else to commit horrible acts.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;33709684]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208782/Britains-drug-gun-culture-bad-U-S-crime-The-Wire-say-Tories.html [url]http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323[/url][/QUOTE] Okay, I'm not even gonna bother reading the first source, it's the Daily Mail and everyone on FP should know better That second source seems kind of biased (it's pretty much a blog, and an opinionated one at that), but I did my own calculations using [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/14000-knife-victims-a-year-860857.html[/url] and wikipedia, and came to the conclusion that gun crime in the US and knife crime in the UK were roughly the same per capita it all depends on which numbers you use

[QUOTE=bye;33709703]oh and look at my country's stance on semi and automatic weapons now![/QUOTE] A similar thing happened here in 1989, the laws they put in place did not stop 2-4 subsequent fatal school shootings in Canada after the 1995/1998 Firearms act, one of which was committed with a legal gun, proving the registry does not stop a psychopath from committing a crime, that sickos will get past licensing systems, and that gun control and gun laws won't stop someone determined to kill. These shootings by legal gun owners, both the 1989 massacre and the Dawson College Shooting, tarnish the name of the 7 million other gun owners in the country, as the actions of 2 people reflect negatively on 7 million law abiding citizens. I believe the reason they used legal guns is because the media shits a brick as soon as they find out the gun is legally owned and registered, and generally sickos like this want as much media attention as they can get. Then there was the killing by James Roscoe of 4 RCMP officers at his farm with a prohibited long gun, again proving gun laws don't stop ownership of prohibited weapons and crime.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;33709802]Well you said billions of people own them, I assumed that they were bought. Guns would still be used to kill people, because of the black market. All banning them would do is make hunters and hobbyists switch to bow and arrows. That is the point I have been trying to make. Next time I'll say things nice and simple so you can understand.[/QUOTE] Where do you think the black market guns come from? They got stolen or bought from people that legally purchased the guns. Police are already taking huge amounts of illegal firearms off of the streets, but with the supply still being there (everyone being able to buy a gun), the black market will keep on existing.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709867]Where do you think the black market guns come from? They got stolen or bought from people that legally purchased the guns. Police are already taking huge amounts of illegal firearms off of the streets, but with the supply still being there (everyone being able to buy a gun), the black market will keep on existing.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;33709458]Source.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;33709800]To me it makes more sense to just make them much much harder to get than to outright ban them. [b]Like, here in the states, we [I]can[/I] get automatic weapons and even things like cannons and howitzers (In most states), you just have to have a very clean background, get approval from some form of law enforcement, and go through a lengthy waiting period.[/b] I say thats the best way, because then the people who want to use them legitimately [I]can[/I] get them, and some crazy who whats to go shoot up a political rally wont be able to.[/QUOTE] According to a discovery channel documentary I saw just yesterday, you can get a AK47 within a day in DC (or just outside of DC), legally. All you need is a clean record and cash.