Alcohol vs Marijuana - Which is unhealthier? - General

[QUOTE=MR-X;32385171]I've dealt with people who came to jail for stabbing someone while high on weed (seen it only once, while working there but still). I've also dealt with people who came to jail because they got drunk and assaulted someone. Just because one isn't as common does not mean it does not happen. Alcohol is more common and readily available, so of course we're going to have more incidents. Though at the same time we can blame the person for it, A lot of people get drunk and don't react violently and a lot of people smoke and don't react violently.[/QUOTE] If you had ever smoked weed you'd understand that the last thing on a stoned mans mind is inciting violence. I'm not saying no one has ever claimed pot to be the reason, but unless there are SERIOUS underlying mental or situational issues, smoking pot will not trigger unprovoked violence. Alcohol makes some regularly calm, reasonable people turn into a raging punch throwing senseless fiend. I'm not saying no one has ever said that pot made them do it, but I'm sure they were just using it as a scapegoat.

[QUOTE=MR-X;32385171]I've dealt with people who came to jail for stabbing someone while high on weed (seen it only once, while working there but still). I've also dealt with people who came to jail because they got drunk and assaulted someone. Just because one isn't as common does not mean it does not happen. Alcohol is more common and readily available, so of course we're going to have more incidents. Though at the same time we can blame the person for it, A lot of people get drunk and don't react violently and a lot of people smoke and don't react violently.[/QUOTE] What if 2 people both took the drugs, 1 person drank until they were 'drunk' and someone smoked until they were "high". Both people get into their own cars and drive home, the person who got high would have a better chance of getting home safely

[QUOTE=s0beit;32384473]Marijuana is healthier to the body, it does have negative effects and don't you ever let anyone get away with saying otherwise, however, marijuana doesn't kill people, alcohol does, being a marijuana addict won't kill you, being an alcoholic will. I still drink alcohol, sparingly.[/QUOTE] Weed isn't addictive. You can only be addicted to weed the same way you can be addicted to video games, ie, not a real addiction.

[QUOTE=TamTamJam;32385322]Weed isn't addictive. You can only be addicted to weed the same way you can be addicted to video games, ie, not a real addiction.[/QUOTE] Except there are actually withdrawal symptoms from a weed addiction [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ZenX2;32385085]I quite agree with you about this. I first heard about it from an article in either Scientific American or Discover (I can't remember which it was) about a study where a group of people with really bad depression or something took it to see if the whole "permanent brain alteration to make you think the whole world is working together and everything's chill" would make them happy again.[/QUOTE] From personal experience it made me unafraid of death and more content with life

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32385389]Except there are actually withdrawal symptoms from a weed addiction [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] From personal experience it made me unafraid of death and more content with life[/QUOTE] As a very heavy user who quit for 6 months for work, I never once had any form of physical withdrawal symptoms at all, and never has anyone I know. I'd like to see a study proving this. The hardest thing about quitting smoking weed is if your social groups are involved and the habitual nature of it.

[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32385424][/QUOTE] The symptoms aren't that severe but it is stuff like mild insomnia and feeling a shit when you aren't high. I had the insomnia when I used marijuana heavily and then stopped using it as regulary and my friend would feel really shit if he didnt blaze every hour. [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] [url]http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth9.shtml[/url] [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] I was just saying that it isnt as easy as quitting a video game addiction.

The problem with alcohol is the potential for abuse. Since it is so readily available, and it usually inhibits people from making rational decisions I find it worse in the short term. That's not to say Weed has the potential to be harmful in the long term (due to the inhalation of smoke), but my problem with alcohol is the immediate short term. Not to mention in the United States, we have a terrible culture associated with Alcohol. I'm from Brazil where the drinking age is 18 (but not really since kids as young as 14 drink), but I've never once been to a party where people were specifically looking to get drunk. As a college student in the US, all I've seen is people specifically going to parties to get wasted. I think it stems from the high drinking age. If people were introduced to alcohol at an earlier age, they would not only be more responsible with it, but since they can drink it readily they don't feel as if they need to drink as much as possible when it's available.

weed isn't addictive, its habit forming

[QUOTE=Edthefirst;32385563]The problem with alcohol is the potential for abuse. Since it is so readily available, and it usually inhibits people from making rational decisions I find it worse in the short term. That's not to say Weed has the potential to be harmful in the long term (due to the inhalation of smoke), but my problem with alcohol is the immediate short term. Not to mention in the United States, we have a terrible culture associated with Alcohol. I'm from Brazil where the drinking age is 18 (but not really since kids as young as 14 drink), but I've never once been to a party where people were specifically looking to get drunk. As a college student in the US, all I've seen is people specifically going to parties to get wasted. I think it stems from the high drinking age. If people were introduced to alcohol at an earlier age, they would not only be more responsible with it, but since they can drink it readily they don't feel as if they need to drink as much as possible when it's available.[/QUOTE] I disagree, the drinking age where I live is 18 and people also start as young as 14 and almost every party everyone is just out to get wasted

Stop being so blind to Marijuana please. [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/nb4qwy.png[/IMG] [quote=Mortality among individuals with cannabis, cocaine, amphetamine, MDMA, and opioid use disorders: A nationwide follow-up study of Danish substance users in treatment][b]A primary cannabis use disorder was associated with a five-fold increase in mortality[/b]. Although this is a slightly smaller SMR than what was found for cocaine/amphetamine or opioids it is noteworthy. Only one previous study has reported SMRs for primary cannabis users. Wahren et al. (1997) found estimates of 8.0 and 7.4 in two Swedish cohorts from 1971 to 1972 and 1981 to 1982. However, the Swedish study involved just 16 deaths among cannabis users and it concerned only users who had been hospitalized for psychiatric disorders or somatic illnesses. Other studies have reported on deaths associated with cannabis use rather than cannabis use disorders. Sidney et al. (1997) found that cannabis use was associated with increased risk of AIDS-related mortality in men, but failed to demonstrate other effects, and the study was about rather infrequent users (‘high use’ defined as lifetime use on more than six occasions). Andreasson and Allebeck (1990) found a relative risk of death among high consumers of cannabis (use on more than 50 occasions) of 2.8, but the association disappeared following adjustment for social background variables. Although some case evidence about cannabis and cardiovascular fatalities has been published ( [Bachs and Morland, 2001] and [Mukamal et al., 2008] ) deaths resulting from overdose due to cannabis alone are very unlikely. [b]Instead the increased mortality found in the present study could be the result of a higher propensity to road accidents ( [Eksborg and Rajs, 2008] and [Macdonald et al., 2003] ), intentional/violent injuries or homicides ( [Darke and Duflou, 2008] and [Macdonald et al., 2003] ), and various other types of accidents or injuries associated with cannabis use.[/b][/quote] And there is evidence that it is addictive. [quote=Neurochemical basis of cannabis addiction]Cannabis derivatives have become the most widely used illicit substances in developed countries, and constitute a major health concern. The psychoactive compounds contained in cannabis induce their pharmacological effects by the activation of at least two different receptors, CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors. [b]Multiple studies have demonstrated the specific involvement of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in the addictive properties of cannabinoids. Several neurotransmitter systems involved in the addictive effects of other prototypical drugs of abuse, such as the dopaminergic and the opioid system are also involved in cannabis addiction.[/b] The participation of other neurochemical systems in behavioural responses of cannabinoids related to their addictive effects has also been reported.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32385579]I disagree, the drinking age where I live is 18 and people also start as young as 14 and almost every party everyone is just out to get wasted[/QUOTE] That's interesting. Must be a cultural thing then. Because in Brazil people see alcohol just as a complement to the social environment and not a necessity. Of course people get trashed at parties, but the amount is significantly less, and people don't make it their goal to get drunk. It sounds like an interesting idea for a study as to why certain places are like that. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=flyschy;32385607]Stop being so blind to Marijuana please. [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/nb4qwy.png[/IMG] And there is evidence that it is addictive.[/QUOTE] Source?

[QUOTE=flyschy;32385607]Stop being so blind to Marijuana please. [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/nb4qwy.png[/IMG] And there is evidence that it is addictive.[/QUOTE] The problem is that I could get evidence that would prove the exact opposite of a lot of that

[QUOTE=Edthefirst;32385635]That's interesting. Must be a cultural thing then. Because in Brazil people see alcohol just as a complement to the social environment and not a necessity. Of course people get trashed at parties, but the amount is significantly less, and people don't make it their goal to get drunk. It sounds like an interesting idea for a study as to why certain places are like that. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] Source?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20971585[/url] You'll need a way to access the article to see that table though.

[QUOTE=flyschy;32385665][url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20971585[/url] You'll need a way to access the article to see that table though.[/QUOTE] Conveniently enough I've got access to that site through one of my labs. Can only access it in the lab though, but it sounds like an interesting read.

Out of personal views and such, I'd say alcohol is the worse one, I've hung out with stoned people and we've just sat there watching films and eating crisps the entire night, or until we fall asleep. With the drunk people I've encountered, it depends on the person I know of someone and when he's drunk he's just unruly and aggressive, however for me and my best mate, we'll stumble around talking shit to each other but we wouldn't cause violence, unless it's on a game of battlefield.

I've never done pot, I don't want to. But marijuana does have some good side effects. Alcohol just makes you depressed.

[QUOTE=Hardpoint Nomad;32385891]I've never done pot, I don't want to. But marijuana does have some good side effects. Alcohol just makes you depressed.[/QUOTE] Well let's get this clear though, alcohol does have positive effects. A glass of wine is proven to have benefits on the circulatory system ([url]http://www.ynhh.org/about-us/red_wine.aspx[/url]). It's just it needs to be taken in moderation. Same thing with marijuana. You can't expect that it's healthy to smoke grams of marijuana on a daily basis.

Also looking through the refrences of that paper I found [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11792512]this.[/url]. [quote=Acute cardiovascular fatalities following cannabis use]Several reports of acute cardiovascular episodes associated to cannabis use have been published in the last 20 years and underlying patho-physiological mechanisms have been discussed. Cannabis is generally considered to be a drug with very low toxicity. In this paper, we report six cases where recent cannabis intake was associated with sudden and unexpected death. An acute cardiovascular event was the probable cause of death. In all cases, cannabis intake was documented by blood analyses. To our information there were no heavy drug addicts in our material and the deceased individuals seemed to be occasional cannabis users. Coronary pathology was revealed by the autopsies in some cases. Further investigations of clinical, toxicological and epidemiological aspects are needed to enlighten causality between cannabis intake and acute cardiovascular events.[/quote] It's rare but it there is evidence for directly cannabis related deaths.

[QUOTE=flyschy;32386057]Also looking through the refrences of that paper I found [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11792512]this.[/url]. It's rare but it there is evidence for directly cannabis related deaths.[/QUOTE] Now I disagree. Correlation does not prove causality. Just because they had THC in their system during a heart failure does not mean it was caused by any chemical in cannabis. There could be many factors that caused the failure, including a premeditated condition that was perhaps aggravated because of marijuana, but there is no proof of that. [quote]Further investigations of clinical, toxicological and epidemiological aspects are needed to enlighten causality between cannabis intake and acute cardiovascular events.[/quote] Yeah so basically the article even says they have no way of knowing whether or not marijuana had anything to do with their death, only that in these 6 cases there was THC present in the blood.

All the same shit. While alcohol is slightly worse in bodly health, the loss of control from both could be fatal either way. Being stoned on marijuana isn't any better when a drunk truck driver plows into you.

think its okay to drink alcohol and smoke tobacco here because they pretty much built america. marijuana just needs a little more time to be legalized. i mean its probably true that coconuts kills more people falling off of trees than pot does when people inhale it.

[QUOTE=Lazyboy0337;32386612]All the same shit. While alcohol is slightly worse in bodly health, the loss of control from both could be fatal either way. Being stoned on marijuana isn't any better when a drunk truck driver plows into you.[/QUOTE] That's a terrible argument. You isolated the whole debate to one specific situation. Not to mention what you specifically said is illegal for all drugs. By that logic chemo treatments are just as bad because they might leave you disoriented, and that might lead you to crash your car.

Alcohol is poison

[QUOTE=Edthefirst;32386549]Now I disagree. Correlation does not prove causality. Just because they had THC in their system during a heart failure does not mean it was caused by any chemical in cannabis. There could be many factors that caused the failure, including a premeditated condition that was perhaps aggravated because of marijuana, but there is no proof of that. Yeah so basically the article even says they have no way of knowing whether or not marijuana had anything to do with their death, only that in these 6 cases there was THC present in the blood.[/QUOTE] The fact that cases have shown up again and again in literature suggests it is more than a coincidence. It's difficult to prove conclusively though. Not that any of this matters since direct cannabis related deaths would be rare even if it was proven.

All drugs have the potential to cause harmful things. Whether directly or indirectly. In the case of alcohol vs marijuana it's really up to self control. Yeah alcohol is more harmful then marijuana if you are a heavy drinker that blacks out at parties or gets fucked up every day. In moderation however alcohol isn't really that harmful at all, and even has benefits. [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] I hate when people take a stance that X Drug is the be all end all drug. I enjoy the feeling of both alcohol and marijuana. But they are two different feelings which serve different purposes for me.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32385003]Read the graph properly people, It does say its worse for harm to users than alcohol but it does less harm to other people. Jesus read something properly before critisizing it.[/QUOTE] More people die from alcohol yes, but heroin is much more dangerous and easier to OD on.

Smoking pot gives you lung problems. Drinking alcohol gives you kidney problems. They're both somewhat bad for you, but fine in moderation. Although, personally, I'd rather my housemates smoke pot. They just laugh a lot, as opposed to get angry and yell at everyone. And I don't have to worry about them choking on their own vomit.

Alright. This is going to earn me "major" popularity points, but both are fine, but weed has killed, and is addictive. Eric Roberts, Julia Roberts brother, who played as Sal Maroni in "The Dark Knight", entered rehab a while back, and admitted he had a mental dependency on weed. He said that he doesn't go a day without smoking it, and if he does, he feels sick and goes insane. Also, this story was just on the news today, an update, I remember about it ages ago: [url=http://www.wtae.com/news/29230145/detail.html]Teen Runs Down Mother Under Influence Of Marijuana[/url] Many more people DO die of alcohol abuse each year, and DUI related deaths are higher for alcohol than any other drug, but I absolutely HATE how weed supporters say that nobody has ever died on it. I see it's reason for medical purposes only. And even then, they put it in tablet form. Those who want to legalize medical marijuana are doing it for the wrong reasons. They want it legalized so they can use it, they don't actually care about the people it can help.

[quote=http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html] Marijuana and Mental Health A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be an important risk factor, where early use is a marker of increased vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or reflects an attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses - including addiction - stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. Currently, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.4 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.[/quote] This is the reason that I think that marijuana is worse than alcohol.

[QUOTE=Hana-San;32387873]This is the reason that I think that marijuana is worse than alcohol.[/QUOTE] Yep. Alcohol causes you to just not give a shit, not sit in the corner flipping out about random shit.