Or just don't smoke with tobacco. It seems a lot of marijuana smokers do smoke cigarettes, mix in tobacco, or smoke blunts, which is probably the reasoning some of these "marijuana causes lung illnesses"
[QUOTE=JamesDean;32403008]Or just don't smoke with tobacco. It seems a lot of marijuana smokers do smoke cigarettes, mix in tobacco, or smoke blunts, which is probably the reasoning some of these "marijuana causes lung illnesses"[/QUOTE]
Or don't smoke at all and use a vaporizer, smoking anything at all is unhealthy for you, and will cause damage to your lungs, even marijuana.
[QUOTE=Chezhead;32402953]This is like communism at this point: There's no way this is going to change anytime soon, it's already been in a bad light for far too long. As McCarthy was to Communism, MAD and whatever those other "Don't do drugs, kids!" campaigns are to Marijuana.
I have never used it, but looking at the data, it does seem that it would be less harmful than alcohol.
By the way, straight numbers of deaths and harm by Marijuana don't help, the numbers would significantly increase once it would become legal and used as much as alcohol. That doesn't mean it would surpass it, however.[/QUOTE]
I dont really think a lot of people will try it just because its legal. Most people who would get it if its legal would be people who were getting it when it was illegal.
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32403231]I dont really think a lot of people will try it just because its legal. Most people who would get it if its legal would be people who were getting it when it was illegal.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of that video of Ron Paul in a debate.
Legalize weed, make weed in an appealing drinkable form... bam! The best of both worlds
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;32403984]Legalize weed, make weed in an appealing drinkable form... bam! The best of both worlds[/QUOTE]
Its been done already
[img]http://www.drinkcannacola.com/screensavers/canna_cola_screensaver_01.jpg[/img]
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
Woah that was big
[QUOTE=Hana-San;32391607]Like my uncle?
He had some and ended up threatening my grandparents. Wanting to kill them and then proceeded to call my mother an "evil witch" and by that I don't mean she wasn't a nice person, he meant an evil witch.[/QUOTE]
Personal stories aren't good proof of anything, that is, anecdotal evidence is not credible, there are plenty (so many more) cases where nothing goes wrong.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32384473]Marijuana is healthier to the body, it does have negative effects and don't you ever let anyone get away with saying otherwise, however, marijuana doesn't kill people, alcohol does, being a marijuana addict won't kill you, being an alcoholic will.
I still drink alcohol, sparingly.[/QUOTE]
marijuana isn't addictive.
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jelly donut;32384536]Not sure how reliable these statistics are.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DEC8q.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
looks pretty spot on
alcohol fucks your shit up
[quote]Alcohol abuse kills some 75,000 Americans each year and shortens the lives of these people by an average of 30 years, a U.S. government study suggested Thursday.
Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading cause of preventable death in the United States after tobacco use and poor eating and exercise habits.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which published the study, estimated that 34,833 people in 2001 died from cirrhosis of the liver, cancer and other diseases linked to drinking too much beer, wine and spirits.
Another 40,933 died from car crashes and other mishaps caused by excessive alcohol use.
Source: [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/[/url][/quote]
[IMG]http://www.saferchoice.org/images/SAFER/american%20scientist%20toxicity%20graphic.jpg[/IMG]
[quote]In 2001, there were 331 alcohol overdose deaths and 0 marijuana overdose deaths.
Source: U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Source: [url]http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm[/url][/quote]
[quote]The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported 20,687 “alcohol-induced deaths” (excluding accidents and homicides) in 2003. Source: [url]http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm[/url]
The CDC has no reports of “marijuana-induced deaths.” (In reality, there may be 2-5 deaths each year attributed to marijuana, but this article -- [url]http://bbsnews.net/bw2005-02-01.html[/url] -- describes how these are actually deaths attributable to other causes but “blamed” on marijuana due to the way the data is collected.)[/quote]
If the Center for Disease Control doesn't have a single report of a marijuana-induced death, then it's safe to assume it's safer than alcohol to drink. Both have had decades of studies done upon them, and there's yet to have any evidence that Marijuana is dangerous.
[highlight]But weed kills brain cells! It doesn't kill people but it makes you stupid![/highlight]
That's a false misconception from a study done where Monkeys were pumped full of Marijuana fumes. However, they were not given sufficient oxygen and were essentially suffocated. Their brain cells started dying due to lack of oxygen, not from the Marijuana fumes. This study was later discredited when it couldn't be repeated. However, the Ronald Reagan era of the War on Drugs has pushed a propaganda train that has convinced many people that Marijuana is dangerous.
I cannot begin to list all the scientists who contributed to discrediting the study, please see my 3rd reference for more info.
[b]References:[/b]
[url]http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/[/url]
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/[/url]
[url]http://www.soop.ca/potfacts/braincells.html[/url]
Current research is still investigating both the positive and negative effects of weed on people, so at the moment you cant accurately say that weed or alcohol are more or less harmful than one another. Most of the research papers i see on marijuana say things like "there is insufficient evidence as of yet to conclusively prove this or that".
Also, just because you have to ingest a large amount of marijuana to kill yourself doesn't mean that in the long term it isnt potentially more harmful than alcohol, just merely that its more difficult to overdose on it.
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tukimoshi;32406382]Both have had decades of studies done upon them, and there's yet to have any evidence that Marijuana is dangerous.[/QUOTE]
There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that (smoking) marijuana has potentially damaging long and short term effects on the body, [i]including[/i] psychological problems in people who have no risk factors.
Feel free to look it up for yourself on pubmed
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOKydKOnwBw[/media]
[quote]Alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs, and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect can lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands of times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands of times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a recorded case of marijuana overdose.[/quote]
[url]http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/num2/the-toxicity-of-recreational-drugs/1[/url]
[QUOTE=Biotic;32407541][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOKydKOnwBw[/media]
[url]http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/num2/the-toxicity-of-recreational-drugs/1[/url][/QUOTE]
Again, just because its more difficult to overdose on weed doesnt make it safer than alcohol whatsoever other than overdosing. The long term health risks of smoking marijuana may or may not be significant, and until someone can figure it out the whole marijuana vs any other chemical argument is irrelevant
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32403231]I dont really think a lot of people will try it just because its legal. Most people who would get it if its legal would be people who were getting it when it was illegal.[/QUOTE]
There is such a large misconception when it comes to this concept. A person that doesn't smoke marijuana because he doesn't want to will continue to abstain from smoking even if it is legal.
If the government were to legalize all drugs tomorrow, I would still avoid heroine because I don't want to take it. You may see some increased numbers of users of marijuana since it is relatively harmless and compares to what is on the market right now, but it wouldn't be much higher than it is now.
[QUOTE=Icedshot;32408141]Again, just because its more difficult to overdose on weed doesnt make it safer than alcohol whatsoever other than overdosing[/QUOTE]
More difficult? It's physically impossible to overdose on weed.
Also, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis]there's a whole very long wikipedia article on the long-term effects of cannabis with several citations and studies to support what's said on the page.[/url]
Also going back to an earlier post of yours.
[quote] Most of the research papers i see on marijuana say things like "there is insufficient evidence as of yet to conclusively prove this or that". [/quote]
If you can say this then you'll have no trouble linking to them, I hope?
A lot of these statistics dont really show anything as marijuana and alcohol cannot be properly compared as the amount taken cannot be really measured (for alcohol). Consuming the recommended amount of alcohol will be far less lethal than taking the "same amount" of marijuana. Mass consumption of alcohol is deadly as is marijuana
[QUOTE=Biotic;32408321]More difficult? It's physically impossible to overdose on weed.
Also, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis]there's a whole very long wikipedia article on the long-term effects of cannabis with several citations and studies to support what's said on the page.[/url]
Also going back to an earlier post of yours.
If you can say this then you'll have no trouble linking to them, I hope?[/QUOTE]
I wish you could read your own wikipedia article
"Though the long-term effects of cannabis have been studied, there remains much to be concluded. "
"Generally, no scientific consensus exists regarding many of cannabis's long-term effects, despite a large number of studies."
Ill link you to relevant studies in a sec, theyre in my post history somewhere Edit: turns out theyre not, post purging
Search marijuana on pubmed, its got loads and loads of studies
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Biotic;32408321]More difficult? It's physically impossible to overdose on weed.[/QUOTE]
The specific variation makes no difference to my point whatsoever
Considering both fuck you up in the head when you use it, i'd go for Marijuana as it does no permanent damage and doesn't make you fat.
[url]http://www.moleculewear.com/420-10-studies.php[/url]
See points 2 through 5. The only known potential damage from smoking marijuana is cancer from the tars that are caused by inhaling any sort of smoke into your lung. However, evidence suggests that THC and other cannaboids may be key to slowing, halting, and potentially even curing cancer.
If you vaporize your weed, you also bypass that danger.
Alcohol wrecks your vital organs and can easily kill you. Marijuana would have to be smoked in mass amounts of have a negative effect (Assuming cancer is possible from marijuana)
So both are relatively safe in moderate amounts, taking too much of either can be dangerous but it's nigh-impossible to overdose on Marijuana (The average person would have no possible way of doing so), whereas Alcohol abuse/poisoning
is increasingly common.
[i]A punch in the face or a punch in the groin - which is unhealthier?[/i]
Both things are real bad. Both kills your brain cells, both are addictive.
The only difference, to me, is that Alcohol makes you dangerous against others, while it's legal,
Marjuana is only a danger for yourself, while feed illegal markets and crime societies with money.
[quote=lapsus]Both things are real bad. Both kills your brain cells, both are addictive.[/quote]
No... just no...
[quote=lapsus]Marjuana is only a danger for yourself[/quote]
Scientific evidence will prove otherwise
[quote=lapsus]while feed illegal markets and crime societies with money.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you see, that's only a problem because its illegal
[QUOTE=Jelly donut;32384536]Not sure how reliable these statistics are.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DEC8q.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
this isn't reliable at all (imo at least)
[QUOTE=sami-elite;32414572]Considering both fuck you up in the head when you use it, i'd go for Marijuana as it does no permanent damage and doesn't make you fat.[/QUOTE]
jebus christ, it's stuff like this that makes me mad
People need to be properly educated on recreational drugs, not the government word-twisted shit and stuff they heard from their friends, that is also bullshit
[QUOTE=Icedshot;32414223]I wish you could read your own wikipedia article
"Though the long-term effects of cannabis have been studied, there remains much to be concluded. "
"Generally, no scientific consensus exists regarding many of cannabis's long-term effects, despite a large number of studies."
Ill link you to relevant studies in a sec, theyre in my post history somewhere Edit: turns out theyre not, post purging
Search marijuana on pubmed, its got loads and loads of studies
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
The specific variation makes no difference to my point whatsoever[/QUOTE]
I never said I was countering what you said.
I thought it was common sense nowadays that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana in every way. And weed is basically 100% safe in you ingest it without smoke (vapor, edibles, etc...)
In a nutshell, let's reiterate what is known.
Alcohol in minor amounts can be a healthy drink. A glass of wine now and then can be good for you. Excessive drinking can cause liver failure, alcohol poisoning, extreme dehydration, and it also has a tendency to make you do incredibly stupid things.
Marijuana when smoked DOES have tars. That is the curse of smoking. These tars are not healthy for you and may cause cancer. There is strong evidence to suggest that THC and other cannaboids are cancer preventative and can be also used to treat cancer. This has been tested on mice with success.
The myth that Marijuana kills brain cells has been debunked. For a study to be published, it generally needs to be reproduced. The government however, with it's war on drugs, pushed studies that had not been properly reproduced by independent sources. It's been since proven that independent sources were unable to reproduce the results, and it was concluded that the mice most likely lost brain cells due to lack of oxygen. There is NO evidence to suggest that Marijuana kills brain cells.
If you take Marijuana or it's cannaboids in edible, liquid, or vaporized form, it negates the risk of cancer and there has never been any evidence to suggest any dangers to the human body regarding THC and other various cannaboids.
Marijuana does have a tendency to make people lazy and inattentive due to the pure fact that it's a drug, a substance used to induce effects on the user and as such, they will not be able to act normal. Reflexes are slowed and so are reaction times.
In a nut shell, Marijuana and Alcohol both have dangers. However, the danger of Marijuana can be completely negated through edibles or vaporization, and you may indulge in however much you want. An "overdose" of marijuana, as many people call it (It's not actually an overdose) will merely cause you to fall asleep, or in some cases, vomit.
Alcohol impairs motor ability to a similar or greater extent. The only sure way to avoid the dangers of alcohol is moderation, and drinking plenty of water. Unlike a THC/Marijuana overdose, Alcohol Overdosing is extremely dangerous and can be fatal, leading to complete liver destruction.
In my (evidence supported) opinion, Alcohol is more comparable to other drugs where organ failure can occur. Marijuana has no evidence to support the dangers after many years of research, and there is evidence to suggest that smokers of Marijuana have LOWER cancer rates than those who don't, although the studies that found that also found it to be statistically insignificant, which in a nutshell, means that the effect of Marijuana and it's relation to cancer is seemingly 0.
For the average consumer, Alcohol is more dangerous. Alcohol is more addictive, it's easy to overdose on, it can completely destroy your liver, and it greatly impairs your motor ability.
Marijuana may have some dangers as we cannot completely rule out the cancer-causing tars of smoking, but it's possible to negate the known dangers, it's nigh-impossible to overdose, there's been no proven deaths related to marijuana, and it's use as a medicine world-wide has become extremely important.
I'd like to see anyone who could argue that Marijuana is more dangerous. I can't guarantee it's harm-free, but evidence STRONGLY suggests that the dangers of Marijuana are minimal to none.
If you are that concerned, buy a vaporizer or make some edibles.
[QUOTE=lapsus_;32414876][i]A punch in the face or a punch in the groin - which is unhealthier?[/i]
Both things are real bad. Both kills your brain cells, both are addictive.
The only difference, to me, is that Alcohol makes you dangerous against others, while it's legal,
Marjuana is only a danger for yourself, while feed illegal markets and crime societies with money.[/QUOTE]
Neither kills your brain cells. Dont talk out of your ass when trying to make a point.
Actually, there have been studies done to show that marijuana could potentially cause various psychological conditions, in people who have no predisposition to it. Its not the miracle safe drug that everyone says it is. It could turn out that thc does cure cancer, but that doesn't mean that smoking weed will cure it. It might also turn out to be the cause of psychological events.
The point is, nobody is quite sure, so saying it is definitely safe is simply ignorant. Personally I'd stick with something with well known risks like alcohol, simply because you know what the long term risks are, and its well understood
Edit:
And tukimoshi, the evidence strongly suggests that we have no fucking idea whatsoever
Or you could like, open a new chapter in history again, and legalize weed, study it hard, and you will know side effects.
[quote]These are probably the 2 most commonly used drugs worldwide[/quote]
Other than caffeine, that is.
The positives and negatives of both are dependent on dosage and frequency.
Without specifying what those variables are, it is difficult to reliably say which is worse.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Time to take this apart piece by piece.
[QUOTE=Tukimoshi;32420709]In a nutshell, let's reiterate what is known.
Alcohol in minor amounts can be a healthy drink. A glass of wine now and then can be good for you. Excessive drinking can cause liver failure, alcohol poisoning, extreme dehydration, and it also has a tendency to make you do incredibly stupid things.[/quote]
This is true, moderation is key.
[quote]
Marijuana when smoked DOES have tars. That is the curse of smoking. These tars are not healthy for you and may cause cancer. There is strong evidence to suggest that THC and other cannaboids are cancer preventative and can be also used to treat cancer. This has been tested on mice with success.
[/quote]
The risk of lung cancer is relatively negligible due to the (probable) [B]lung[/B] cancer retardant properties of delta-9 THC.
[quote]
The myth that Marijuana kills brain cells has been debunked. For a study to be published, it generally needs to be reproduced. The government however, with it's war on drugs, pushed studies that had not been properly reproduced by independent sources. It's been since proven that independent sources were unable to reproduce the results, and it was concluded that the mice most likely lost brain cells due to lack of oxygen. There is NO evidence to suggest that Marijuana kills brain cells.[/quote]
[quote]
If you take Marijuana or it's cannaboids in edible, liquid, or vaporized form, it negates the risk of cancer and there has never been any evidence to suggest any dangers to the human body regarding THC and other various cannaboids.[/quote]
This is not correct. Cannabis has been implicated in promoting breast cancer growth, however further research is needed to discern the exact mechanism.
[quote]The myth that Marijuana kills brain cells has been debunked. [/quote]
In addition, the oral consumption of alcohol does not kill brain cells, for the most part.
[quote]
Marijuana does have a tendency to make people lazy and inattentive due to the pure fact that it's a drug, a substance used to induce effects on the user and as such, they will not be able to act normal. Reflexes are slowed and so are reaction times.[/quote]
I disagree with your implication that a drug have psychological effects which cause them 'unable to act normal'. We have entire pharmacological categories full of drugs intended to make people 'act normal'! :v:
These reactions indicate that the same regulatory measures applied to alcohol should be applied for cannabis, in the event of legalization. If you take the idea that the human body derives value from its productive worth, then this is a negative cannabis, and to a lesser extent, alcohol.
[quote]
In a nut shell, Marijuana and Alcohol both have dangers. However, the danger of Marijuana can be completely negated through edibles or vaporization, and you may indulge in however much you want. An "overdose" of marijuana, as many people call it (It's not actually an overdose) will merely cause you to fall asleep, or in some cases, vomit.[/quote]
I think cannabis has significantly more medical applications than alcohol, and for that reason alone, it should be available to doctors (in extracted pill form).
The long-term psychological effects of cannabis certainly merit investigation, but correspondingly chronic use of alcohol is certainly detrimental enough.
Another issue is whether individuals with psychological issues are more likely to take up smoking cannabis, or whether it develops afterwards. I tend towards the former, however I don't believe it is as clear cut as that, and that any psychoactive drug potentiates possible negative psychological reactions.
[quote]
In my (evidence supported) opinion, Alcohol is more comparable to other drugs where organ failure can occur. Marijuana has no evidence to support the dangers after many years of research, and there is evidence to suggest that smokers of Marijuana have LOWER cancer rates than those who don't, although the studies that found that also found it to be statistically insignificant, which in a nutshell, means that the effect of Marijuana and it's relation to cancer is seemingly 0.[/quote]
It is dependent on which cancers cannabis promotes and retards. (e.g. breast and lung cancer, respectively).
[quote]
For the average consumer, Alcohol is more dangerous. Alcohol is more addictive, it's easy to overdose on, it can completely destroy your liver, and it greatly impairs your motor ability.[/quote]
Alcohol results in a greater dependence, yes, but I disagree on alcohol being more addictive in a pleasure-seeking sense.
[quote]
Marijuana may have some dangers as we cannot completely rule out the cancer-causing tars of smoking, but it's possible to negate the known dangers, it's nigh-impossible to overdose, there's been no proven deaths related to marijuana, and it's use as a medicine world-wide has become extremely important.[/quote]
I highly doubt that no deaths related to cannabis have occurred, but I accept that it may as well be nothing in comparison to alcohol-related fatalities.
Another question is whether alcohol should be retained due to traditional or cultural aspect of it, while cannabis would not, as much.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=polarbear.;32416017]this isn't reliable at all (imo at least)
[/QUOTE]
Wow, ecstasy is way too low on that list.
A terrible list.
Although this is colouring outside the lines,
[QUOTE=Contag;32422789]
Wow, ecstasy is way too low on that list.
A terrible list.[/QUOTE]
[quote=http://thedea.org/statistics.html][img]http://thedea.org/pictures/deathsper100k.gif[/img]
(roughly 2 in 100,000)[/quote]
The majority of deaths either simply involve the victim taking MDMA as part of a cocktail of drugs (ergo MDMA not being the cause) or heatstroke, a fairly easily avoided issue if the drug taker keeps hydrated
To compare,
[quote=http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810990.PDF]The rate for fatal motorcycle accidents is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles -note that motorcyclists may own more than one bike, making the actual 'risk' higher[/quote]
[QUOTE=Contag;32422789]Wow, ecstasy is way too low on that list.
A terrible list.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Pure MDMA is actually quite ok on your system. As long as you don't take too much, keep your fluids at an adequate level and don't stay out in the sun, you'll avoid the main causes of death.
I normally think of ecstasy as pills that contain MDxx substances. But that doesn't mean that there isn't other stuff in there. Quite often they are cut with some other stimulant, such as meth or BZP (horrible stuff).
See, after a night out taking ecstasy, you feel quite down and moody for the good half of a day. This still happens if you have pure MDMA, but much less intense. I don't quite understand how that works, because I'd have thought you use up roughly the same amount of serotonin either way, but it just seems that the combo of other shit in there makes it much worse.
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