• Israel primed for war on Iran: Netanyahu deputy
    146 replies, posted
I hope we just stay neutral. Help neither Iran or Isreal
[QUOTE=whatnow V2;21893962]i hope iran wins I'm a big fan of their quds [img]http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/070206_070219/070215_Iran_wide.hmedium.jpg[/img] very nice[/QUOTE] They look like a bunch of awkward teenagers. I bet they all have jewfros underneath their helmets. [editline]09:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21905643]Isn't that the main idea of the Coalition? They imply all Middle Easterners are dirty terrorists and should be killed. By the way, I've heard rarely of public Israel executions. They have ghettos and the like, sure, but it's war, deal with it. [editline]04:54PM[/editline] You know what happened to Israel for the first 50 years of its existence since 1947? It's been kicked around, mocked, attacked, harassed, provoked, pushed around, and bullied. Why is it such a crime that they're finally attacking back? If I were Israel, I'd be pretty fucking pissed.[/QUOTE] Yeah! Hell, why not join in! Lets kill a hundred Afghani civilians for every soldier that dies! That's justice! AMERICAN JUSTICE WOO! Oh wait, you're British. Nevermind, it's just barbaric and outrageously stupid.
Gmod_Fan77 and BurnEmDown would get along well.
Burnemdown would be embarrassed.
Leave Iran alone :crying:.
The bias and the amount of uninformed opinions in this thread is both hilarious and concerning
Israel: The only paranoid, imperialistic country in the middle east we allow to have nukes.
[QUOTE=Omali;21908696]Israel: The only paranoid, imperialistic country in the middle east we allow to have nukes.[/QUOTE] And one of the most racist one on the entire planet.
[QUOTE=Baldr;21908995]And one of the most racist one on the entire planet.[/QUOTE] :doh: Go to Saudi Arabia, and the like. THAT'S what racism is. [editline]07:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Incognito;21905906] The reason they have been attacked and are still being attacked is because of what they are doing to the Palestinians, they brought it upon themselves and yet they still continue.[/QUOTE] Er, no. In 1947, the British split a chunk of Palestine for Israel. 1960s, Israel gets shitstormed by Egypt, Arabia, etc., and wins, gaining more land. They've continued expanding, and more wars have happened. Israel's the aggressor here, I agree, but this definately wasn't started by them.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21909276]:doh: Go to Saudi Arabia, and the like. THAT'S what racism is.[/QUOTE] Israel is still a very xenophobic country.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21909276]:doh: Go to Saudi Arabia, and the like. THAT'S what racism is. [editline]07:26PM[/editline] Er, no. In 1947, the British split a chunk of Palestine for Israel. 1960s, Israel gets shitstormed by Egypt, Arabia, etc., and wins, gaining more land. They've continued expanding, and more wars have happened. Israel's the aggressor here, I agree, but this definately wasn't started by them.[/QUOTE] How fucking ignorant can you REALLY be about so many fucking issues?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;21909941]How fucking ignorant can you REALLY be about so many fucking issues?[/QUOTE] Ok then, time to conform to your opinions. Palestine is the most perfect little state in the world, they've never done anything wrong, Israel is nothing but evil Hitler Commie Nazis, Israel is the complete bad guy throughout its history and is the worst nation in history and its people should die because Palestine is so good. Israel was never attcked in the 1960s, that was just a cover-up invasion. Palestine has never been aggressive whatsoever and never has nor will make any mistake.
gmod fan has been trolling this forum since it was created and no one has caught on not even chippay
Hasn't Israel already been saying they're been ready to go to war with Iran for the past two years now?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21906148]Gmod, you really say some stupid things sometimes. Incognito, the IDF doesn't specifically targets civilians, and they weren't attacked "because of what they are doing to the Palestinians", they were attacked because the Arab states couldn't accept a Jewish state in the middle east, even if there would be an Arab state as well in Palestine.[/QUOTE] When you come in, steal land and slaughter the settlers in terrible ways, I would be pissed too. and the IDF uses them as shields. [editline]03:47AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21905432]Israel's done some cruel things, yes, but they're AT WAR WITH THE PALESTINIAN STATE.[/quote] so anything goes... because they're at wat? [quote]The Coalition troops frequently inflict violent brutalities ON INNOCENT PEOPLE NOT EVEN INVOLVED IN THE CONFLICT. The Coalition is at war with the Taliban and insurgents, but they attack Iraqi and Afghan civilians.[/QUOTE] this i can agree with. But you are completely fucking contradicting yourself. You whine about American's shooting up civis, but when the Israeli's do it, you break down and say "well it's just war" [editline]03:49AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21909276] Israel's the aggressor here, I agree, but this definately wasn't started by them.[/QUOTE] uh... ben Gurian's atrocities and stolen land isn't enough to defend yourself? [editline]03:52AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21911602]Ok then, time to conform to your opinions. Palestine is the most perfect little state in the world, they've never done anything wrong, Israel is nothing but evil Hitler Commie Nazis, Israel is the complete bad guy throughout its history and is the worst nation in history and its people should die because Palestine is so good. Israel was never attcked in the 1960s, that was just a cover-up invasion. Palestine has never been aggressive whatsoever and never has nor will make any mistake.[/QUOTE] You're a fuck up, you know that
Ah... I remember that thread where the fighting in Gaza strip was shown live from some amateur cameraman on top of an apartment I wonder if they'll do that again
Gmod, in the 6 day war in 1967, it was actually Israel who attacked, but they did this as a pre-emptive attack because the Arab nations were about to attack. Also you mention this Palestinian state, what is it? I've never heard of it. Ho Chi Min, the Zionists didn't steal land, only bought them.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21915691]Gmod, in the 6 day war in 1967, it was actually Israel who attacked, but they did this as a pre-emptive attack because the Arab nations were about to attack. Also you mention this Palestinian state, what is it? I've never heard of it. Ho Chi Min, the Zionists didn't steal land, only bought them.[/QUOTE] Proof they were going to attack. burning and cutting down settlers constitutes stealing, if not stealing, that's murder. I don't give a fuck who owns what, that's murder..
[QUOTE=Ho Chi Minh;21915922]Proof they were going to attack. [/QUOTE] "Following numerous border clashes between Israel and its Arab neighbours, particularly Syria, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula in May 1967.[15] The peacekeeping force had been stationed there since 1957, following a British-French-Israeli invasion of Egypt which was launched during the Suez Crisis.[16] Egypt amassed 1,000 tanks and nearly 100,000 soldiers on the Israeli border[17] and closed the Straits of Tiran to all ships flying Israeli flags or carrying strategic materials, receiving strong support from other Arab nations.[18] Israel responded with a similar mobilization that included the call up of 70,000 reservists to augment the regular IDF forces.[19]" [QUOTE=Ho Chi Minh;21915922]burning and cutting down settlers constitutes stealing, if not stealing, that's murder. I don't give a fuck who owns what, that's murder..[/QUOTE] Proof they burned and cut down settlers.
Iran in itself is not bad, it just has a fucked up regime. I don't like either one's way of operating, but I'd like to see Israel get fucked. I'm on Iran's side. Agree/Disagree.
[QUOTE=Sickle;21917071]Iran in itself is not bad, it just has a fucked up regime. I don't like either one's way of operating, but I'd like to see Israel get fucked. I'm on Iran's side. Agree/Disagree.[/QUOTE] How can you people support a nation like Iran, which supports terrorism, restricts the rights of women and homosexuals, deny the holocaust, is governed by a dictatorship disguising itself as a democracy, over the only true democratic country in the middle east besides Turkey. I know that you think Israel has committed war crimes, but even if this is true, these war crimes in no way come close to the evil our enemies do. Israel is the only country in the middle east where Arabs can vote for their government, and receive full rights as citizens. History also sides with us, sure, maybe there were Zionist terrorist groups, but other than those groups, Zionism is harmless. The Jews in Palestine agreed numerous times to form a state, even with Arab majority as high as 90%, with a head council made of 9 Arab representatives and 2 Jewish representatives. The Arabs on the other hand refused to accept that the Jews deserve a country of their own, or even be a minor part of their country, they have tried several times to destroy us, and not "because of our war crimes", but because they want the whole middle east for themselves, they want this so bad that they won't even give less than 0.6% of the land to the Jews. I have no problem with people blaming Israel for committing war crimes, I am very upset over things like cutting down olive tries, and don't reject clear and convincing evidence. Some people here claim I blindly defend my country even when I am wrong, but I only defend it when it's not proven to be wrong. Choosing Iran over Israel this way, is like choosing the Axis over the Allies, dictatorship over democracy, evil over good (or at least the lesser evil).
1967 war: Multiple countries prepare to invade Israel. Israel gets wind, and thrashes all of them. This is not an example of Israeli aggression. This is an example of a successful preemptive strike.
Let them solve their own problems. They want to steam-roll each other? Let them. They want to use every tactical nuke known to man? Let them. Maybe then we won't have to deal with such childish threats from both of the parties.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21917430]How can you people support a nation like Iran, which supports terrorism[/QUOTE] Not true.[quote], restricts the rights of women and homosexuals, deny the holocaust, is governed by a dictatorship disguising itself as a democracy,over the only true democratic country in the middle east besides Turkey.[/quote] You're confusing Israel with Iran. Israel is more of a military dictatorship then Iran will ever be [quote] I know that you think Israel has committed war crimes, but even if this is true, these war crimes in no way come close to the evil our enemies do. Israel is the only country in the middle east where Arabs can vote for their government, and receive full rights as citizens.[/quote] Not true. Don't make shit up and expect to get away with it here. [quote] History also sides with us, sure, maybe there were Zionist terrorist groups, but other than those groups, Zionism is harmless.[/quote] No its not. Zionism is racism in every form/ Example. That would not matter so much, if Israeli borders were open to all immigrants: but they are not, and this is the third racist characteristic of Zionism. Israel has one of the highest immigration rates in history, but immigration policy has always been restrictive. Although Israel grants citizenship to the resident Arab minority, it does not permit Arab immigration, even by former residents of its territory. Only those who stayed in their villages in 1948 got Israeli citizenship: those who crossed the front line to the Arab side can not get back - not as a citizen, and probably not as a visitor. Other Arabs, who have no connection with Palestine, can not simply migrate to Israel, nor can most of the world's population. [B]Israeli immigration is essentially for Jews only,[/B] and this is the most obviously racist policy of present Zionism. In this case, the State of Israel has a formal and explicit policy of Jewish immigration, which is clearly Zionist. It is the logical consequence of the original Zionist demand for a Jewish state formed by migration, meaning migration of Jews. ([URL="http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/zionism.html"]Source[/URL]) And lets not forgot the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379"]resolution passed equating Zionism to racism[/URL] and just because it was revoked because Israel refused to participate in the [B]PEACE[/B] conference in Madrid, doesn't make it invalid. [quote]The Jews in Palestine agreed numerous times to form a state, even with Arab majority as high as 90%, with a head council made of 9 Arab representatives and 2 Jewish representatives. The Arabs on the other hand refused to accept that the Jews deserve a country of their own, or even be a minor part of their country, they have tried several times to destroy us, and not "because of our war crimes", but because they want the whole middle east for themselves, they want this so bad that they won't even give less than 0.6% of the land to the Jews.[/quote] And I support that decision and I see nothing wrong with it. The land belonged to the Palestinians, they were the indigenous population, just because some fairy tale book claimed that it belonged to the Jews thousands of years ago doesn't mean they deserve 0.1% of Palestine. If a new 'hidden' scripture from the Torah was found claiming that God promised USA to the Jews as well, do you honestly expect USA to even hand over 0.1% of the land? Of course not. [quote] I have no problem with people blaming Israel for committing war crimes, I am very upset over things like cutting down olive tries, and don't reject clear and convincing evidence. Some people here claim I blindly defend my country even when I am wrong, but I only defend it when it's not proven to be wrong.[/quote] Oh God, we proved you wrong so many times I lost count. You [B]refuse[/B] to be proven wrong as witnessed by the community of Facepunch. [quote] Choosing Iran over Israel this way, is like choosing the Axis over the Allies, dictatorship over democracy, evil over good (or at least the lesser evil).[/quote] Don't make me laugh even more, how can you even compare Israel to even remotely "slightly good". Where did you get the assumption Iran is evil? Propaganda like this one? [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=937352[/URL] [editline]02:10PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr_Funk;21918078]1967 war: Multiple countries prepare to invade Israel. Israel gets wind, and thrashes all of them. This is not an example of Israeli aggression. This is an example of a successful preemptive strike.[/QUOTE] Oh but that's OK right? I am sure if Iran preemptively attacked Israel, since Israel is making all these threats (Like the news in this thread) it wouldn't of been OK.
starpluck, you really don't have any kind of grasp on the situation. You just see a bunch of shock images and decide you have a new Nazi party to rally against. Everyone admits that Israel is doing a lot of stupid shit but instead of criticizing policies or descisions, you generalise the entire population and turn everyone who argues you into just as big of extremist as you. You occasionaly bring up a good point but you cover it so much emotive shit that it's hard to take you seriously.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;21919683]starpluck, you really don't have any kind of grasp on the situation. You just see a bunch of shock images and decide you have a new Nazi party to rally against. [/quote]If that was the case, I wouldn't be able to argue at all, and just reply with shock pictures as my final rebuttal.[quote] Yeah because Everyone admits that Israel is doing a lot of stupid shit but instead of criticizing policies or descisions, you generalise the entire population[/quote] Are you fucking serious? Bring up a post where I generalize the entire population, lol. I only hate the Israeli government. What are you going to say next, I generalize all Jews as Zionists? [quote]and turn everyone who argues you into just as big of extremist as you. You occasionaly bring up a good point but you cover it so much emotive shit that it's hard to take you seriously.[/QUOTE] Once again, I'd like to see this "emotive" shit.
I think we should all sit back and watch :munch:
[QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]Not true.[/QUOTE] Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas, which are terrorist organizations. [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]You're confusing Israel with Iran. Israel is more of a military dictatorship then Iran will ever be [/QUOTE] I don't know exactly how much of a military dictatorship is Iran, but this event: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932010_Iranian_election_protests[/url] severely damages my view on their "democracy" [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]Not true. Don't make shit up and expect to get away with it here.[/QUOTE] It's true, Israel and Turkey are the only true democracies in the middle east. You can see here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_east#Territories_and_regions[/url] Note that only Israel and Turkey are "democracies". There are Republics such as Iran which claim to be democratic but they are not. [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]No its not. Zionism is racism in every form/ Example. That would not matter so much, if Israeli borders were open to all immigrants: but they are not, and this is the third racist characteristic of Zionism. Israel has one of the highest immigration rates in history, but immigration policy has always been restrictive. Although Israel grants citizenship to the resident Arab minority, it does not permit Arab immigration, even by former residents of its territory. Only those who stayed in their villages in 1948 got Israeli citizenship: those who crossed the front line to the Arab side can not get back - not as a citizen, and probably not as a visitor. Other Arabs, who have no connection with Palestine, can not simply migrate to Israel, nor can most of the world's population. [B]Israeli immigration is essentially for Jews only,[/B] and this is the most obviously racist policy of present Zionism. In this case, the State of Israel has a formal and explicit policy of Jewish immigration, which is clearly Zionist. It is the logical consequence of the original Zionist demand for a Jewish state formed by migration, meaning migration of Jews. ([URL="http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/zionism.html"]Source[/URL]) And lets not forgot the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379"]resolution passed equating Zionism to racism[/URL] and just because it was revoked because Israel refused to participate in the [B]PEACE[/B] conference in Madrid, doesn't make it invalid.[/QUOTE] Zionism "calls for the existence of a sovereign, Jewish national homeland", I don't see how is this racist, the Jews have a right for a homeland just like the Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Iranian, Turkish, Greek, Italian, French, English and American people do. The reason why immigration is so strict for non-Jews is because if it wasn't Israel would quickly lose it's Jewish majority, and would then lose it's Jewish identity, resulting in no Jewish state in the world. There are ways for non-Jews to get citizenship, and they are only just a little bit stricter than most other states, Israel has a right to choose who gets to receive citizenship and immigrate to its borders, just like any other country. The resolution equating Zionism to racism was voted for mostly by Arab states and the likes, for example you can clearly look at the sponsoring states category: "Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Cuba, Dahomey, Egypt, Guinea, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libyan Arab Republic, Mauritania, Morocco, North Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Yemen, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Tunisia, and United Arab Emirates." And the opposing states category: "Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Canada, Central African Republic, Costa Rica, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Fiji, Finland, France, Federal Republic of Germany, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Luxembourg, Malawi, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Swaziland, Sweden, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay." The "voted yes" but not part of the sponsoring states category is half Arabic nations and their semi-allies (soviets) and half neutral states, with a distinct minority of western world states: " Albania, Bangladesh, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burundi, Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, Cambodia (formally known as Democratic Kampuchea), Cameroon, Cape Verde, Chad, People's Republic of China, Congo, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Grenada, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Iran, Laos, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Turkey, Uganda, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics." Overall in this resolution the result was 72 to 35, now let's compare this to the resolution to revoke the one above: Sponsored by: Albania, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burundi, Canada, Central African Republic, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Federal States of Micronesia, Finland, France, Gambia, Germany, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Latvia, Liberia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malta, Marshall Islands, Malawi, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Spain, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia. In favour: (111) The sponsoring nations listed above, and additionally: Benin, Bhutan, Botswana, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Fiji, Gabon, Haiti, India, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Namibia, Nepal, Nigeria, Philippines, São Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles, Thailand, Togo. Against: (25) Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Yemen. As you can see, the western world isn't quite as stupid as to think Zionism is equal to racism, only third-world countries and the Arab states think so. [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]And I support that decision and I see nothing wrong with it. The land belonged to the Palestinians, they were the indigenous population, just because some fairy tale book claimed that it belonged to the Jews thousands of years ago doesn't mean they deserve 0.1% of Palestine. If a new 'hidden' scripture from the Torah was found claiming that God promised USA to the Jews as well, do you honestly expect USA to even hand over 0.1% of the land? Of course not.[/QUOTE] What you don't seem to understand is that the Jews didn't get the land "because some fairy tale book claimed it", this was their motivation for the land, not their excuse. They came to Palestine, first with Ottoman-given rights to settle in this land, they bought some of it from the indigenous population, who I guess cared so much for it that they gladly sold it, and lived peacefully in Palestine, improving it. Then the British got the land via the mandate, they also agreed to let the Jews migrate to Palestine, though the numbers were very strict. Nevertheless the Jews believed in their cause and immigrated to Palestine, buying more lands from the Arabs in the area, until one day the Arabs regretted selling these lands because the Jews asked Britain for a state of their own (which was promised to them in the Balfour declaration), then a lot of fighting took place, and after WWII and the holocaust the need of a Jewish state came to international attention, which sped the creation of Israel. [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]Oh God, we proved you wrong so many times I lost count. You [B]refuse[/B] to be proven wrong as witnessed by the community of Facepunch. [/QUOTE] You mean the extremely biased community? [QUOTE=starpluck;21919541]Don't make me laugh even more, how can you even compare Israel to even remotely "slightly good". Where did you get the assumption Iran is evil? Propaganda like this one? [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=937352[/url][/QUOTE] It's obviously the lesser evil, and there's quite a gap between it and Iran. Oh but that's OK right? I am sure if Iran preemptively attacked Israel, since Israel is making all these threats (Like the the news in this thread) it wouldn't of been OK.[/QUOTE] Perhaps they'd think of it as self defense, but this is what Israel is trying to do, attack Iran before it attacks Israel, if it will try. I do however believe that Israel shouldn't make these threats against Iran, they are acts of aggression (though not physical) and hurt diplomatic relations all over the world.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21919764]If that was the case, I wouldn't be able to argue at all, and just reply with shock pictures as my final rebuttal.[/quote] I didn't say you argue with shock images, just that you get your opinions and reasoning from things made to upset. I read that HRW report and they had to throw in punches like detailing the burned playground or mentioning a small girl and then saying she died, the only goal is to garner anger against Israel. [quote]Are you fucking serious? Bring up a post where I generalize the entire population, lol. I only hate the Israeli government. What are you going to say next, I generalize all Jews as Zionists?[/quote] What about BurnEmDown? Ever consider that he is just someone with a bit of experience with the issue and doesn't like people saying he is stealing land from Orphans? I know you don't generalise all Jews as Zionists as shown by your worship of Norman Finkelstein, but you seem to generalise everyone living in Israel as a nationalistic Zionist. [quote]Once again, I'd like to see this "emotive" shit.[/QUOTE]Emotive language is shaped to invoke emotion. I know it might be hard for you to pick out of your own work but a lot of what you say is pretty inflamatory and biased.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21919917]Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas, which are terrorist organizations. [/QUOTE] I thought you meant support as in funding, delivery of weapons etc. Did you? If not, then never mind. [quote] I don't know exactly how much of a military dictatorship is Iran, but this event: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932010_Iranian_election_protests"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%932010_Iranian_election_protests[/URL] severely damages my view on their "democracy"[/quote]Events also damaged my view on the elections and riots in general: [URL]http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=119292&sectionid=351020101[/URL] [URL]http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=119481&sectionid=351020101[/URL] [quote] It's true, Israel and Turkey are the only true democracies in the middle east. You can see here: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_east#Territories_and_regions[/URL] Note that only Israel and Turkey are "democracies". There are Republics such as Iran which claim to be democratic but they are not.[/quote] Your source says Iran is a republic, yet you deny this fact. According to the CIA world fact-book, Iran is a republic not a dictatorship. Just because you like to believe that it is a dictatorship, doesn't mean it is. [quote] Zionism "calls for the existence of a sovereign, Jewish national homeland", I don't see how is this racist, the Jews have a right for a homeland just like the Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Iranian, Turkish, Greek, Italian, French, English and American people do. [/quote]I like how you excluded Arab or Palestinian. What? So now they don't have a right to return to their rightful homeland? Also, that Zionism definition you gave is extremely vague and is missing the main point today. [quote] The reason why immigration is so strict for non-Jews is because if it wasn't Israel would quickly lose it's Jewish majority, and would then lose it's Jewish identity, resulting in no Jewish state in the world. There are ways for non-Jews to get citizenship, and they are only just a little bit stricter than most other states, Israel has a right to choose who gets to receive citizenship and immigrate to its borders, just like any other country.[/quote] I thought Israel was a 'democracy'. Do you know why the real reason Israel fears losing a Jewish population? They don't want the majority to be Arabs that can reject discriminatory laws. [quote] The resolution equating Zionism to racism was voted for mostly by Arab states and the likes, for example you can clearly look at the sponsoring states category: "Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Cuba, Dahomey, Egypt, Guinea, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libyan Arab Republic, Mauritania, Morocco, North Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Yemen, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Tunisia, and United Arab Emirates." And the opposing states category: "Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Canada, Central African Republic, Costa Rica, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Fiji, Finland, France, Federal Republic of Germany, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Luxembourg, Malawi, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Swaziland, Sweden, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay." The "voted yes" but not part of the sponsoring states category is half Arabic nations and their semi-allies (soviets) and half neutral states, with a distinct minority of western world states: " Albania, Bangladesh, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burundi, Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, Cambodia (formally known as Democratic Kampuchea), Cameroon, Cape Verde, Chad, People's Republic of China, Congo, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Grenada, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Iran, Laos, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Turkey, Uganda, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics."[/quote] Becuase nations Like Poland, Hungry, India, Brazil, China a few Arab states and a bunch of European states make the idea of the resolution wrong? [quote] Overall in this resolution the result was 72 to 35, now let's compare this to the resolution to revoke the one above: Sponsored by: Albania, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burundi, Canada, Central African Republic, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Federal States of Micronesia, Finland, France, Gambia, Germany, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Latvia, Liberia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malta, Marshall Islands, Malawi, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Spain, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia. In favour: (111) The sponsoring nations listed above, and additionally: Benin, Bhutan, Botswana, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Fiji, Gabon, Haiti, India, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Namibia, Nepal, Nigeria, Philippines, São Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles, Thailand, Togo. Against: (25) Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Yemen. As you can see, the western world isn't quite as stupid as to think Zionism is equal to racism, only third-world countries and the Arab states think so.[/quote] Nice try trying to hide the context of the revocation. Israel refused to participate in any peace coference unless the resoltuion was removed. No shit the world would revoke the resolution, they'll do anything to get Israel serious about peace. [quote] What you don't seem to understand is that the Jews didn't get the land "because some fairy tale book claimed it", this was their motivation for the land, not their excuse. They came to Palestine, first with Ottoman-given rights to settle in this land, they bought some of it from the indigenous population, who I guess cared so much for it that they gladly sold it, and lived peacefully in Palestine, improving it.[/quote] Unfortunately, Israel does not allow this to happen for Arabs, as we all know. [quote]Then the British got the land via the mandate, they also agreed to let the Jews migrate to Palestine, though the numbers were very strict. Nevertheless the Jews believed in their cause and immigrated to Palestine, buying more lands from the Arabs in the area, until one day the Arabs regretted selling these lands because the Jews asked Britain for a state of their own (which was promised to them in the Balfour declaration), then a lot of fighting took place, and after WWII and the holocaust the need of a Jewish state came to international attention, which sped the creation of Israel. [/quote] You got your history mixed up and your reasoning was pretty bad. The British Imperialists took control of Palestine, (Which for some reason, people think that's why Israel is valid, it was 'Britain's' land.) The British promised Arabs independece from British rule and a [B]nation of their own[/B] if they assisted the fight against the Ottomans. The Arabs were obviously deceived. The fighting that broke and the results out was extremely understandable since the dream to finally gain independence and a nation of their own was all a lie and was to be given to the Jews instead. Think of it this way: Ottomans controlled Arabs then it was the British. The Arabs never had a form of independence. [quote] You mean the extremely biased community? [/quote] Because when someone dissents with you, they are biased? I seen a a lot of neutral people jump in this thread and point out that you are refusing to accept evidence. [quote] It's obviously the lesser evil, and there's quite a gap between it and Iran.[/quote]No its not, I already explained it. [quote]Perhaps they'd think of it as self defense, but this is what Israel is trying to do, attack Iran before it attacks Israel, if it will try.[/quote] Iran never threatened to attack Israel and explicitly said [B]they will not use force on Israel.[/B] [URL]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070925/ai_n20518061/[/URL] [URL]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6841728.ece[/URL] [QUOTE=Devodiere;21919919]I didn't say you argue with shock images, just that you get your opinions and reasoning from things made to upset. I read that HRW report and they had to throw in punches like detailing the burned playground or mentioning a small girl and then saying she died, the only goal is to garner anger against Israel.[/QUOTE] I love how you know more about myself then I. Like I said, if I get my opinions and reasoning from things like these, I'd bring them up constantly would not be able to argue efficiently. That's why all my debates are backed with fact?[quote] What about BurnEmDown? Ever consider that he is just someone with a bit of experience with the issue and doesn't like people saying he is stealing land from Orphans?[/quote] Stop avoiding my questions. When did I ever say I generalize all Israelis? Also, how does the fact that he's Israeli have to do with experience? You don't have to be Israeli or live there to know whats going on. This is the 21st century. Welcome to the art of communication. [quote] I know you don't generalise all Jews as Zionists as shown by your worship of Norman Finkelstein,[/quote] I advocated Finkelstien, not worshiped him. The fact that you blatantly over exaggerate whatever I say or do proves that these baseless claims you make against me are nothing but a mere lie.[quote] but you seem to generalise everyone living in Israel as a nationalistic Zionist.[/quote] Once again where do I do this? Or is this one of your lies? [quote] Emotive language is shaped to invoke emotion. I know it might be hard for you to pick out of your own work but a lot of what you say is pretty inflamatory and biased.[/quote]I asked to show me where I displayed this attitude, not what it means. If you are going to actually bullshit stuff about me, at least put some effort into it and provide some posts. Avoiding the question or expecting me to pick them out my self doesn't help your case at all.
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