[QUOTE=wewt!;34586423]but the m4 ammo would also penetrate through walls and would be less eieldy indoors
just get a handgun[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there will always be penetration with any sort of weapon, even 5.56 will go through sheet rock and insulation it's kind of unavoidable but if I see a target, but if I fire two shots at someone and only one connects and the other goes wild it's better than 410 pellets going through the walls, into two or three rooms and out into the yard.
And I have no idea what state you live in but it's probably really easy for you to say "Just get a handgun." As I said it would take me more than a year, over $1,000 and at any point in the process they can just decline my application for random reasons, safety courses, references, interviews, backround checks and all this other bullshit. I'd like to get a handgun one day but I have two years left until I'm 21 and I can even apply so I might as well get something until than.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=iFail;34586541]not really. With quality defensive 5.56 like the hornady TAP stuff it overpenetrates less than a handgun. It's a high velocity round and tumbles pretty fast on contact with walls and stuff, whereas handgun hollowpoints plug up and keep on going.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
also, codemoney, if you want to learn about ARs and shit head over to [url]http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php[/url]
It's a forum for duty/defensive AR use, so there's a lot less retardation than at ARFCOM and the like.[/QUOTE]
Also this. Thanks for the link.
Buckshot uses 8 pellets. They'll embed in walls and furniture, very minimal penetration. Birdshot has loadsepellets. Also, rubber slugs.
[QUOTE=wewt!;34588017]but you're still not as agile as you would be with a handgun and have both of your hands busy
I really do think that a handgun is a better choice for home defense, the only thing the AR has going for it is the cool factor[/QUOTE]
Exactly why I want a handgun. It's incredibly easy to clear a hallway or breach a room with a handgun. What you're failing to realize is in New York State it takes an incredibly long time for a motivated individual to get a license for one.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=notrabies;34591401]Buckshot uses 8 pellets. They'll embed in walls and furniture, very minimal penetration. Birdshot has loadsepellets. Also, rubber slugs.[/QUOTE]
I googled how many pellets were in a shell and I got a ridiculous answer. I didn't really know the figure off hand, I guess it was bird shot or something.
Not sure if rubber slugs are something I need to look into, the idea of loading buckshot is the spread so I can't miss (It'd be nearly impossible in a house like this) but NY compliant shotguns seem to be ridiculously long and even harder to use indoors. I don't know if they shell cruiser versions in NY because I haven't seen them myself but I'd imagine that's something they'd piss themselves over and I'd want a stock anyway so I'd need a full length shotgun.
Taiwanese, step your game up.
[url]http://imgur.com/a/dlY0Z[/url]
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34591376]Yeah, there will always be penetration with any sort of weapon, even 5.56 will go through sheet rock and insulation it's kind of unavoidable but if I see a target, but if I fire two shots at someone and only one connects and the other goes wild it's better than 410 pellets going through the walls, into two or three rooms and out into the yard.
[B]
And I have no idea what state you live in
[/B][/QUOTE]
Lahko ugibaš :v: it's easier for me to get an illegal firearm than a legal one, I'm not kidding
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34591376]but it's probably really easy for you to say "Just get a handgun." As I said it would take me more than a year, over $1,000 and at any point in the process they can just decline my application for random reasons, safety courses, references, interviews, backround checks and all this other bullshit. I'd like to get a handgun one day but I have two years left until I'm 21 and I can even apply so I might as well get something until than.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
Also this. Thanks for the link.[/QUOTE]
Well, that makes more sense as to why you can't get a handgun, I still wouldn't get a long gun though.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34591449]Exactly why I want a handgun. It's incredibly easy to clear a hallway or breach a room with a handgun. What you're failing to realize is in New York State it takes an incredibly long time for a motivated individual to get a license for one.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
I googled how many pellets were in a shell and I got a ridiculous answer. I didn't really know the figure off hand, I guess it was bird shot or something.
Not sure if rubber slugs are something I need to look into, the idea of loading buckshot is the spread so I can't miss (It'd be nearly impossible in a house like this) but NY compliant shotguns seem to be ridiculously long and even harder to use indoors. I don't know if they shell cruiser versions in NY because I haven't seen them myself but I'd imagine that's something they'd piss themselves over and I'd want a stock anyway so I'd need a full length shotgun.[/QUOTE]
Well the issue with any home defense is that you aren't allowed to shoot unless the person breaking in is after you instead of your stuff.
You have to follow what I believe is known as castle doctrine, meaning that you or your family has to be in physical danger. You have to be in a fixed location and warn the robber that if they come any closer you will shoot them.
However, the cocking of a pump action shotgun will make an average robber shit themselves and run. Yes you will need a long barreled full stock shotgun in almost all cases to have it legally.
I don't think having a long barrel is a problem. My uncle keeps a 12ga semi-automatic long-barreled shotgun (something of Russian design, might be a Saiga) for home defense, because for defense there's no need or reason to be room clearing. Get the family in one room, stay in the hallway, if anyone comes down the hallway you shoot them. Fulfills requirements for Castle Doctrine and keeps you and your family safe.
[QUOTE=notrabies;34591623]Well the issue with any home defense is that you aren't allowed to shoot unless the person breaking in is after you instead of your stuff.
You have to follow what I believe is known as castle doctrine, meaning that you or your family has to be in physical danger. You have to be in a fixed location and warn the robber that if they come any closer you will shoot them.
However, the cocking of a pump action shotgun will make an average robber shit themselves and run. Yes you will need a long barreled full stock shotgun in almost all cases to have it legally.[/QUOTE]
Cocking any rifle or handgun should be enough but I don't want to count on scaring them. If they broke into my house while I and my family were not home and took my giant TV and computers I wouldn't give a shit. But if someone sets out with the intention of harming me or anyone else in this house I kind of have a responsibility to them to defend them. So if he's armed, in my house and he won't drop the gun or makes any intimating gesture with it I'm going to put him down.
Obviously I won't shoot him if he's outside the house, or running away. If he's unarmed he'll likely take off the minute he knows I have a gun and if he has a gun and responds to command to drop it than he's free to go.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=catbarf;34591693]I don't think having a long barrel is a problem. My uncle keeps a 12ga semi-automatic long-barreled shotgun (something of Russian design, might be a Saiga) for home defense, because for defense there's no need or reason to be room clearing. Get the family in one room, stay in the hallway, if anyone comes down the hallway you shoot them. Fulfills requirements for Castle Doctrine and keeps you and your family safe.[/QUOTE]
My house isn't huge and it's one story. I can't see myself easily "getting my family in one room" because our bedrooms are spread out throughout the house so if it's 3AM and someone breaks in and is in the house by the time I realize we've got an intruder than that means my Mom could be in the bedroom and I'm in mine on the other side of the house.
This is why room clearing becomes an issue because at that point I do not actually know for sure where my family is and I may not know where the intruder is. Hence why I'd want to check and clear rooms as I move throughout the house. It's a shitty situation to be in.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34591705]Cocking any rifle or handgun should be enough but I don't want to count on scaring them. If they broke into my house while I and my family were not home and took my giant TV and computers I wouldn't give a shit. But if someone sets out with the intention of harming me or anyone else in this house I kind of have a responsibility to them to defend them. So if he's armed, in my house and he won't drop the gun or makes any intimating gesture with it I'm going to put him down.
Obviously I won't shoot him if he's outside the house, or running away. If he's unarmed he'll likely take off the minute he knows I have a gun and if he has a gun and responds to command to drop it than he's free to go.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that makes perfect sense, and seems to me to be a good reason to buy a shotgun. The fullsize shotgun won't be an issue as there's no room clearing like catbarf said, and buckshot will put anyone down, guaranteed. Its more powerful that a 5.56 or a .45, and it won't overpenetrate. You can ask around on gunforums, but most people agree on some kind of shotgun.
[QUOTE=catbarf;34591693]I don't think having a long barrel is a problem. My uncle keeps a 12ga semi-automatic long-barreled shotgun (something of Russian design, might be a Saiga) for home defense, because for defense there's no need or reason to be room clearing. Get the family in one room, stay in the hallway, if anyone comes down the hallway you shoot them. Fulfills requirements for Castle Doctrine and keeps you and your family safe.[/QUOTE]
Relative to a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 I recall the Saiga being relatively short. The concept behind an M4 is "Yeah it's long but compared to a shotgun.."
The issue right now for me is finding places that sell guns and finding what I want. (I don't have any gunshops locally.)
So I have no idea.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=notrabies;34591762]Yeah, that makes perfect sense, and seems to me to be a good reason to buy a shotgun. The fullsize shotgun won't be an issue as there's no room clearing like catbarf said, and buckshot will put anyone down, guaranteed. Its more powerful that a 5.56 or a .45, and it won't overpenetrate. You can ask around on gunforums, but most people agree on some kind of shotgun.[/QUOTE]
Alright, you've convinced me. I need to look into it a bit more though, I doubt Dicks or Gander Mountain have what I'm looking for though.
oh look im back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34591780]Relative to a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 I recall the Saiga being relatively short. The concept behind an M4 is "Yeah it's long but compared to a shotgun.."
The issue right now for me is finding places that sell guns and finding what I want. (I don't have any gunshops locally.)
So I have no idea.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
Alright, you've convinced me. I need to look into it a bit more though, I doubt Dicks or Gander Mountain have what I'm looking for though.[/QUOTE]
Gander Mountain most likely will, I've seen Benelli M1014's there on occasion. Just go in and start a dialogue with the staff, they'll hook you up.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
If you have the cash, you should totally get a Benelli M3, so you can have pump action or semi auto, making any range shooting you may do lots of fun.
Butler my bro u are back
I'd have to see what they have and what I like but if I decide to buy a gun I'll be ready to drop $1,200 or so bucks so a Benelli M3 is definitely in that range and I've liked what I've seen.
wait junglecat is butler
yes
Pffft a 16.5" bayonet on the end of a .303 calibre battle rifle is the way to go for home defense :v:
[QUOTE=junglecat;34591807]oh look im back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
This guy's a HERO
he sacrificed himself!
GOD SPEED BOOTLER
Don't know why you all rate him dumb, butler is me bro
here is paved road in russia
[img]http://www.photobasement.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ak-47-magazine-road03.jpg[/img]
note how everything is perfectly normal
what am i supposed to be seeing
I watched the movie "Right at Your Door" last night. Highly recommend.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV32U3wq-wI[/media]
Anyone else have Post Apocalyptic recommendations? None of the typical stuff like "WATER WORLD AND ROAD WARRIOR" we all know those.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34592958]I watched the movie "Right at Your Door" last night. Highly recommend.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV32U3wq-wI[/media]
Anyone else have Post Apocalyptic recommendations? None of the typical stuff like "WATER WORLD AND ROAD WARRIOR" we all know those.[/QUOTE]
I kind of liked "The Postman", though it was kind of off. Newest Terminator movie was kind of interesting too.
[QUOTE=notrabies;34593020]I kind of liked "The Postman", though it was kind of off. Newest Terminator movie was kind of interesting too.[/QUOTE]
Still a bit too common. I've heard of those before.
I mean like the more obscure movies. I'm sure few people have heard of Right at Your Door but everyone knows Terminator Salvation.
A Scanner Darkly and Requiem for a Dream?
Count me in.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
I'd definitely suggest The Crazies, you may think it's just horror, but it's got that awesome Post-Apocalyptic feel, and the whole movie is a thriller really.
I didn't really like the crazies it was yeah k ending was bad, but I just watched all three lord of the rings extended, today's a good day
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;34593107]A Scanner Darkly and Requiem for a Dream?
Count me in.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
I'd definitely suggest The Crazies, you may think it's just horror, but it's got that awesome Post-Apocalyptic feel, and the whole movie is a thriller really.[/QUOTE]
I liked the new one because it wasn't a generic "OH GOD THEY'RE ZOMBIES EXECUTE ALL SUVIVORS TERMINATE THE TOWN"
They made an effort to seal off the town, gather the uninfected survivors and bus them to safety well the sick and suspected sick were locked away until they decided how to treat them.
Unfortunately shit goes bottoms up though.
All you guy talk about guns an shit, war movies, in my head lord of the rings trilogy best movies and I think it would be cooler to be in war like that with swords and bows, fighting orcs an urukhai it would just be pretty sweet
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;34593224]I liked the new one because it wasn't a generic "OH GOD THEY'RE ZOMBIES EXECUTE ALL SUVIVORS TERMINATE THE TOWN"
They made an effort to seal off the town, gather the uninfected survivors and bus them to safety well the sick and suspected sick were locked away until they decided how to treat them.
Unfortunately shit goes bottoms up though.[/QUOTE]
The ending was pretty dumb. Like why would you [sp]nuke[/sp] a small town like that holy shit
[QUOTE=piggycan99;34593280]All you guy talk about guns an shit, war movies, in my head lord of the rings trilogy best movies and I think it would be cooler to be in war like that with swords and bows, fighting orcs an urukhai it would just be pretty sweet[/QUOTE]
No.
War is fucking terrifying and I rather be shot than literally have someone slice or stab me on the battlefield and lay there in the middle of a muddy field, bleeding out while people trample and fight over my body.
[editline]7th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;34593341]The ending was pretty dumb. Like why would you [sp]nuke[/sp] a small town like that holy shit[/QUOTE]
I didn't watch it all to be honest. It was on TV.
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