[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44384164]
Really though, we should ignore male victims of rape because it detracts from more important issues.~[/QUOTE]
Several points
First, this doesn't come anywhere close to your original claim of "men can't be raped because patriarchy". Still looking for that nugget so deliver at your earliest convenience.
Secondly, even after taking the quote entirely out of context you still go out of your way to misconstrue it. Nowhere in that post did he say we should ignore male victims of rape
Finally, building off of #2, this quote is taken entirely out of context compared to the rest of the thread. He was replying to the idea that both genders share an equal amount of rape victims and this is just flat out not true by all statistical measure.
I'm not sure if it's on topic but I'm reminded of my own similar childhood trauma and a music video by a cool band that shows an alternate universe where a man is kept in every household of women specifically so he can supply genetic material to each of them to continue the population growth. And you'd think that it would be like this one dude and a harem just having as much sex as he wants but instead he's just used as an object that dispenses sperm and can only have sex when they force him to.
It was really cool maybe I should post it?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;44381652]This is what Rangergxi does in [I]every thread[/I] like this. He makes coy references to posts/members he has either misinterpreted or outright lied about and before you can get a serious response out of him to substantiate his argument he is already in the next thread, propping up strawmen. I've never seen a post on FP by anyone who said men can't be raped, especially from the people I'm almost certain he is referring to.[/QUOTE]
i know, he's completely full of shit
[QUOTE=Jackald;44382199]I'm sure feminists will just say it's the patriarchy's fault for making that guy feel that he can't talk about being raped. #downwiththepatriarchy![/QUOTE]
who the fuck are you even talking about
who are these straw feminists? can you introduce me to one, or do they only exist on *GASSSSP* t-t-t-tumblr!!!??
seriously, your posts in these threads are fucking terrible. at least when rangergxi makes instigative posts he has the audacity to be subtle and not just immediately insult people
Boy do this video need to be posted on Sensationalist Headlines when such a topic comes up.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44381782]Feminism isn't a unified movement. It has always had its schisms.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I always wondered where the word feminist came from and when it arose as a movement.
We had Womens suffrage back in the 1900's which we would classify as feminism (or at least I think we would) but at the time they weren't called feminists.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44385328]who the fuck are you even talking about
who are these straw feminists? can you introduce me to one, or do they only exist on *GASSSSP* t-t-t-tumblr!!!??
seriously, your posts in these threads are fucking terrible. at least when rangergxi makes instigative posts he has the audacity to be subtle and not just immediately insult people[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to justify him but, there is this one girl in my school that acted what those stereotypical tumblr feminist would be like. She would but into someone's conversation between two guys who talking about how good they think this one girl looks, and just tell them that they are terrible people that objectify women, ect. The best one is when two girls were talking about assassin's creed and the new game and she came in saying she liked the game but didn't like how the "women were sexualized and you can never play as one", one of the two girl told her about how none of the main women weren't even that sexual or under dressed, and told her about the assassin's creed game where you can play as a woman. She shut up after that.
I guess she acts like that because she's crazy, she tried to convince the class that she can cast spells. " I can turn water into ice, but i don't have water with me." and "I'm learning to case fire."
[QUOTE=dai;44384700]the problem is that it's a misinterpretation, people who say men can't be raped because they're part of the patriarchy are [i]misguided little shits who continue to enforce ~the patriarchy~[/i]. "The patriarchy" is the current socially accepted (and passively enforced) mentality that dictates that men can't be raped because they're men and are supposed to get all the sex they can handle all the time. It's the social norms that say guys are masculine and like race cars and grillin' burgers, girls are frilly and play with barbies and sweep floors and aren't breadwinners. the words "manly" and "girly" only have connotation to various behaviors because society as a whole accepts that they are what they've always been. Children with no built in "this is the way things work" dictionary always question why they have to play with what's considered the boy toys instead of the girl toys, and vice versa, because if something looks like fun to play with they don't give a fuck what color it is
The patriarchy is the thing that forms the attitudes against this guy, what caused the other guys to call him a faggot for trying to say he didn't like it. It's a shifting target that's casting way less of a shadow over society right now than it was a decade or two ago, but it's still a beast that needs some serious taming.[/QUOTE]
At least some people have an actual definition of the patriarchy, rather than categorising it as every negative cultural aspect relating to gender. As you say this is the result of centuries or more of cultural evolution, there is no distinction between patriarchy and everything else, and setting it aside as its own entity is both pointless and what leads to these kind of "misinterpretations".
Is it just because the slogan of fighting the patriarchy is still effective when the work required is more subtle, or do you think people wouldn't support cultural change against men being raped if you didn't frame it as part of a larger movement?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44385328]who the fuck are you even talking about
who are these straw feminists? can you introduce me to one, or do they only exist on *GASSSSP* t-t-t-tumblr!!!??
seriously, your posts in these threads are fucking terrible. at least when rangergxi makes instigative posts he has the audacity to be subtle and not just immediately insult people[/QUOTE]
While they aren't a majority I do see them from time to time. They're usually pretty thick though so I just discard opinions immediately
[editline]29th March 2014[/editline]
Lol I went on Reddit to see what they thought of it and found hundreds of people calling this guy a pussy, saying how men can over power women so only beta males get raped and every other disgusting load of bullshit under the sun
Sometimes I wish I could go to another planet to get away from these fucking degenerates.
[QUOTE=Psycho9182;44385940]I'm not trying to justify him but, [B]there is this one girl in my school [/B]that acted what those stereotypical tumblr feminist would be like. [/QUOTE]
I don't think I need to read beyond this point. Anecdotes and shit don't really matter, because if you dig deep enough you can find a crazy to discredit literally [I]any[/I] group. Knowing [I]one[/I] nerd who acts high and mighty uninformed person doesn't mean you can justify any kind of flaming or hate, especially jackald's laughable and gross stance on feminism. I'm not saying you're a bad person for thinking this person is stupid, they probably are judging by what you've said, tho.
[editline]28th March 2014[/editline]
Like, you wouldn't discredit all environmentalists just because some dude got naked and chained his dick to a tree, or all gamers because a few of them sent death threads to an 11 year old, or all democrats because one or two said something stupid on TV, would you? The best thing to do would have discussions with the ones on top, while ignoring the bottom feeders. That requires effort on [I]both parties, [/I]​though, so you have to be proactive too.
i love how this thread turned into a fruitful discussion about why this was caused and exposing the symptoms of it
FP has grown a little more tolerant and a lot more tolerant people in general, took a hiatus for this reason
it pisses me off to no end when anyone says men cant be raped the people i constantly deal with reek of the general being of dudebros its palatable nausea
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44379340]fun fact feminists fight the very social construction that's telling this man that he has to enjoy all sexual violence that's inflicted upon him[/QUOTE]
no, feminists are girly nazis that want to take away all our porno and make us manslaves
duh
[editline]29th March 2014[/editline]
Really though, I was caught completely off-guard by the video. I honestly have no words.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44388158]I don't think I need to read beyond this point. Anecdotes and shit don't really matter, because if you dig deep enough you can find a crazy to discredit literally [I]any[/I] group. Knowing [I]one[/I] nerd who acts high and mighty uninformed person doesn't mean you can justify any kind of flaming or hate, especially jackald's laughable and gross stance on feminism. I'm not saying you're a bad person for thinking this person is stupid, they probably are judging by what you've said, tho.
[editline]28th March 2014[/editline]
Like, you wouldn't discredit all environmentalists just because some dude got naked and chained his dick to a tree, or all gamers because a few of them sent death threads to an 11 year old, or all democrats because one or two said something stupid on TV, would you? The best thing to do would have discussions with the ones on top, while ignoring the bottom feeders. That requires effort on [I]both parties, [/I]​though, so you have to be proactive too.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't intending to discredit feminists or a group, Just thought i'd share it. I said she was disliked by other girls by the way she acted, meaning that [B]I'm acknowledging she exists but is only the minority.[/B]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44378419]We had those on FP a while ago. They were idiots and got themselves permabanned.[/QUOTE]
Do you by chance have a link to the thread where they all got banned in?
[QUOTE=gtanoofa;44380003]i have to be manly and not a "cry baby faggot" and either suck it up like a ~man or act aggressively like a ~man.[/QUOTE]
I had something like this happen to me today.
Today I was kind of upset in one of my classes because I didn't understand something and I was worried that I would get a bad grade or something similar. I felt the tears coming, and immediately put my head down in my arms. I didn't want people to see me showing any signs of weakness or to think I was crying, since then I'd be a pussy, because men can't feel sad. While my head was down, though, the teacher explained that no one else seemed to understand the thing and she went on to explain it in-depth, but I couldn't lift my head in case someone noticed I looked like a wreck.
Fear of appearing not-masculine made me miss my one chance of solving my problem.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44388158]I don't think I need to read beyond this point. Anecdotes and shit don't really matter, because if you dig deep enough you can find a crazy to discredit literally [I]any[/I] group. Knowing [I]one[/I] nerd who acts high and mighty uninformed person doesn't mean you can justify any kind of flaming or hate, especially jackald's laughable and gross stance on feminism. I'm not saying you're a bad person for thinking this person is stupid, they probably are judging by what you've said, tho.
[editline]28th March 2014[/editline]
Like, you wouldn't discredit all environmentalists just because some dude got naked and chained his dick to a tree, or all gamers because a few of them sent death threads to an 11 year old, or all democrats because one or two said something stupid on TV, would you? The best thing to do would have discussions with the ones on top, while ignoring the bottom feeders. That requires effort on [I]both parties, [/I]​though, so you have to be proactive too.[/QUOTE]
It's good that you think effort on both parties is required, because maybe you'll put a bit more effort into your own posts from now on. You might even try to have discussions with people who know their shit rather than picking on jokes or dismissing points made. I should keep this post on hand too, as I'm sure you'll go against judging the many by the few next time an MRA or Atheism topic comes up.
But there's the issue, can you judge a group by your experience with those in that group? You say have discussions with those on the top, but if the majority are bottom feeders spoiling the public perception then they'll just be drowned out. Wouldn't it be far more effective to try and broadcast the good stuff or try and distance yourself from the crap, rather than complaining when people mock it?
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;44388586]
Fear of appearing not-masculine made me miss my one chance of solving my problem.[/QUOTE]
I dunno man. It seems to be deeper than that. People usually don't cry about bad grades unless the consequences are getting kicked out with debt or something. You missed your chance not because of your fear of looking weak but because you started crying over something so trivial. This isn't rape, this is a bad grade man.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44390016]I dunno man. It seems to be deeper than that. People usually don't cry about bad grades unless the consequences are getting kicked out with debt or something. You missed your chance not because of your fear of looking weak but because you started crying over something so trivial. This isn't rape, this is a bad grade man.[/QUOTE]
There were a lot of other problems and things that built up to it, and that's usually how it happens for me. I agree though, it should not be put on par with rape. I was just sharing an anecdote that was relevant to the idea of the patriarchy making men afraid of feelings.
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;44390727]There were a lot of other problems and things that built up to it, and that's usually how it happens for me. I agree though, it should not be put on par with rape. I was just sharing an anecdote that was relevant to the idea of the patriarchy making men afraid of feelings.[/QUOTE]
Patriarchy is not a thing. This isn't medieval times. I understand that emotions build up and as men we can rarely receive same support women can but we can learn to expel our built up feelings in different ways. Exercise is a great way to do it. And videogames work great too for that. It won't do shit about huge trauma like rape or ptsd but for a bunch of smaller negative feelings like bad grades and other not so major things, it works great. Just do not resort to alcohol or drugs as a way to deal with your built up emotions.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44391127]Patriarchy is not a thing. This isn't medieval times. I understand that emotions build up and as men we can rarely receive same support women can but we can learn to expel our built up feelings in different ways. Exercise is a great way to do it. And videogames work great too for that. It won't do shit about huge trauma like rape or ptsd but for a bunch of smaller negative feelings like bad grades and other not so major things, it works great. Just do not resort to alcohol or drugs as a way to deal with your built up emotions.[/QUOTE]
When feminists talk about the patriarchy they don't mean a literal "men literally run everything" society, they mean this idea that men are to be strong and dominant, while women are weak and submissive and anyone who doesn't fit into these roles is ridiculed, so if a man shows what would be considered emotional weakness, he would be ridiculed for it while a woman would likely get support for it. On the flip side if a woman tried to be strong and assertive, people may react negatively towards this, I have often seen strong or more masculine women called "dykes", while being a masculine man is of course expected.
Since men are expected to be dominant, this is why it is called the "patriarchy", but that doesn't mean it necessarily benefits all men, or that it is only men who propagate it (women can propagate patriarchal ideas as well, I've seen many women look down on men who don't fit the dominant role)
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;44391692]When feminists talk about the patriarchy they don't mean a literal "men literally run everything" society, they mean this idea that men are to be strong and dominant, while women are weak and submissive and anyone who doesn't fit into these roles is ridiculed, so if a man shows what would be considered emotional weakness, he would be ridiculed for it while a woman would likely get support for it. On the flip side if a woman tried to be strong and assertive, people may react negatively towards this, I have often seen strong or more masculine women called "dykes", while being a masculine man is of course expected.
Since men are expected to be dominant, this is why it is called the "patriarchy", but that doesn't mean it necessarily benefits all men, or that it is only men who propagate it (women can propagate patriarchal ideas as well, I've seen many women look down on men who don't fit the dominant role)[/QUOTE]
There's a whole lot of people messing up when they try to explain this and I appreciate it every time someone speaks up and sets the record straight.
Looking forward to a few years from now.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44379340]fun fact feminists fight the very social construction that's telling this man that he has to enjoy all sexual violence that's inflicted upon him[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.theage.com.au/comment/horrors-masked-by-the-language-of-misogyny-20130404-2h7s4.html[/url]
[quote]The extension of the crime of rape to include offences against men, in particular forcible buggery, was a step in the wrong direction. Women may be buggered, too. Why the male anus should be elevated to the status of the vagina is beyond conjecture.[/quote]
[url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Only-men-can-be-booked-for-rape/Article1-1021702.aspx[/url]
That's just not true.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;44399684][url]http://www.theage.com.au/comment/horrors-masked-by-the-language-of-misogyny-20130404-2h7s4.html[/url]
[url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Only-men-can-be-booked-for-rape/Article1-1021702.aspx[/url]
That's just not true.[/QUOTE]
im glad hindustantimes is the definite source for what most feminists believe and fight for
truly you have shown us all the light.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;44399684][url]http://www.theage.com.au/comment/horrors-masked-by-the-language-of-misogyny-20130404-2h7s4.html[/url]
[url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Only-men-can-be-booked-for-rape/Article1-1021702.aspx[/url]
That's just not true.[/QUOTE]
What does any of that have to do with feminism?
[QUOTE]Rape, as historically defined, can only be committed by insertion of a penis into the vagina, that is, by a male on a female. Semantically ''rape'' is descended from the Latin verb ''rapere'', to carry off. The word ''rapt'' still means ''carried away''.
The word ''rapine'' refers to the forcible seizure and removal of goods, chattels or animals from their rightful owner. The rapist commits a crime not against the woman whose vagina he penetrates but against the men who own her, be they male kin or her husband; in prosecuting him, the patriarchal state represents their rights in her.
The extension of the crime of rape to include offences against men, in particular forcible buggery, was a step in the wrong direction. Women may be buggered, too. Why the male anus should be elevated to the status of the vagina is beyond conjecture. Forcible buggery is a serious sexual assault, but in historical terms it is a less serious offence than rape[/QUOTE]
Thats one strange read friend.
[editline]30th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;44401163]What does any of that have to do with feminism?[/QUOTE]
Pointing out some examples of feminists who wish to ignore rape done against men. He picked some pretty obscure ones.
wtf
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44401682]Thats one strange read friend.
[editline]30th March 2014[/editline]
Pointing out some examples of feminists who wish to ignore rape done against men. He picked some pretty obscure ones.[/QUOTE]
Who cares what some obscure group in india think? Nobody is claiming every single feminist on the planet agrees, but most mainstream feminists will agree that male rape is a problem and shouldn't be ignored.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;44401868]Who cares what some obscure group in india think? Nobody is claiming every single feminist on the planet agrees, but most mainstream feminists will agree that male rape is a problem and shouldn't be ignored.[/QUOTE]
The Aussie is a prominent feminist.
[QUOTE]Greer has defined her goal as "women's liberation" as distinct from "equality with men".[/QUOTE]
Not the best type of feminist to be sure.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44401880]The Aussie is a prominent feminist.
Not the best type of feminist to be sure.[/QUOTE]
She's one person
[quote]The extension of the crime of rape to include offences against men, in particular forcible buggery, was a step in the wrong direction. Women may be buggered, too. Why the male anus should be elevated to the status of the vagina is beyond conjecture. Forcible buggery is a serious sexual assault, but in historical terms it is a less serious offence than rape[/quote]
This is literally fucking arguing semantics that aren't even regarded any more, that's like saying that the word 'man' is gender-neutral because semantically it's gender-neutral. It's not the word's original definition that matters, it's its current definition in modern society.
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