• Atheists' view of world creation?
    259 replies, posted
Someone sneezed it into existance
Nothing even a fraction as old as the universe exists without a cycle of renewal. I believe that the universe has always existed, but undergoes a cycle of collapsing on itself and exploding to form a new universe.
[QUOTE=Mr Kirill;33133274]What world creation theories are there that are not based on any deity activity? It is very hard to believe there's an old bearded man in the skies that made everything, but it is also hard to explain why the world is as it is - why do atoms act like they do, why are organisms so complex yet so 'smart' to function properly and so on?[/QUOTE] There are countless theories regarding the creation and nature of the universe in both a scientific and vernacular context. We have a scientific theory behind the big bang, the increasing complexity and origin of life and the nature of atomic and subatomic particles. The fun part of science is, we don't know everything, and things change as our knowledge does. So this question of "what do atheists believe?" is whatever they have come to agree is a logical theory behind the specific topic.
Science can be easily compared to religion. It is composed of theories and facts. One could say the Christian bible is also composed of theories and facts, or any other "holy" book.
The fact is: We don't know how the universe was created, and to be honest I don't care. It's here just get over it. It could be a god, the big bang, but I just don't know. It's as simple as that. There is not answer that you can get any proof of.
[QUOTE=Capitalist Dog;33136899]Science can be easily compared to religion. It is composed of theories and facts. One could say the Christian bible is also composed of theories and facts, or any other "holy" book.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but there was no proof of Jesus. Just because there's a Shroud of Turin doesn't mean he made water into wine. But on the other hand, I think the "holy".... books can be seen metaphorically. [editline]5th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheSporeGA;33136997]It's here just get over it.[/QUOTE] I'm trying, but it won't let me. Too big you see.
[QUOTE=Capitalist Dog;33136899]Science can be easily compared to religion. It is composed of theories and facts. One could say the Christian bible is also composed of theories and facts, or any other "holy" book.[/QUOTE] Except Science tests those logical theories, the 'holy books' just preach theories.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;33133503]At first, there was nothing. And then it exploded.[/QUOTE] I don't belive in God, but isn't this pretty much what the Bible says?
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;33137051]I don't belive in God, but isn't this pretty much what the Bible says?[/QUOTE] No. The bible is a story. Therefore it can only be interpreted in the metaphorical sense. Unless you want to start a cult and make out it's real. Oh wait... I'm 2000 years late with that idea. :v:
[QUOTE=TheSporeGA;33136997]The fact is: We don't know how the universe was created, and to be honest I don't care. It's here just get over it. It could be a god, the big bang, but I just don't know. It's as simple as that. There is not answer that you can get any proof of.[/QUOTE] If mankind said 'I don't care' to anything it didn't know about, you wouldn't be typing that message on a computer. There is scientific proof for the big bang, hnng all my rage.
[QUOTE=Rct33;33137236]There is scientific proof for the big bang, hnng all my rage.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but certainty must be vanquished before people start submitting themselves into scientific thought. I personally don't find much interest into submitting to the scientific thought, because I know I won't live long enough to experience anything worthwhile with it. Sorry to be a downer.
It's a mystery and we will never know within our insignificant lifetimes.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33135488]Stuff like this really makes me wonder what is outside our universe, if we could find that out we could probably find out how our universe came about.[/QUOTE] Assuming the Universe isn't itself a massive Mobius Strip where spacetime wraps around so reaching the "edge" just brings you to the other side of the "map" like in "Asteroids". Chances are, in spacetime terms, we EXIST on the "edge" of the Universe, and the only way out, is through. Punching wormholes and stuff like that. As to what's outside the Universe... Well, consider how many times humanity was ever correct in assuming that something we discovered was the only one of its kind. First we assumed that our Sun was the only Sun, and that our world was the only world. Then, once we figured out what a galaxy was, we, of course, concluded that our galaxy was the only galaxy. In these assumptions, we've proven to be about as wrong as any creature could be. Is it so irrational to consider that our Universe is not the ONLY Universe? In fact, in light of our 100% failure-rate in the past, wouldn't it be slightly irrational to presume otherwise? Perhaps there are as many Universes beyond ours, as numerous and varied as stars in our own. All with varying physical laws and properties. It would certainly answer why our Universe can support life. Given enough repetition and enough variation, it would be inevitable that Universes came about with adequate "settings" for life, just as it was inevitable that life would exist where it was possible at all. Maybe it's a sea of bubbles compacted or spread out amongst each other, like a zero-G ball-pit containing cosmos after cosmos. Or perhaps it's bubbles within bubbles, where Universes expand on forever from a singularity, while singularities within it form and accomplish the necessary density of matter to begin expanding into a new Universe from within, possibly having consumed the matter the previous singularity left behind. It's not that I know, it's that I know with absolute certainty that I don't. And I know with identical certainty that NOBODY knows, because nobody CAN. Not yet anyway. And until that "yet" comes, any speculation, including my own, is pointless. But, if you're truly a free-thinker, you can try the idea on like a hat for a few minutes, and see if things make any more sense.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33137308]Yeah, but certainty must be vanquished before people start submitting themselves into scientific thought. I personally don't find much interest into submitting to the scientific thought, because I know I won't live long enough to experience anything worthwhile with it. Sorry to be a downer.[/QUOTE] How do you 'submit to scientific thought'?
[QUOTE=Sickle;33137603]How do you 'submit to scientific thought'?[/QUOTE] It's kind of using science to visualise what you see around you. As if someone gets a thrill that the wall is made of atoms. That kind of thing.
[QUOTE=J-Dude;33137390]Assuming the Universe isn't itself a massive Mobius Strip where spacetime wraps around so reaching the "edge" just brings you to the other side of the "map" like in "Asteroids". Chances are, in spacetime terms, we EXIST on the "edge" of the Universe, and the only way out, is through. Punching wormholes and stuff like that. As to what's outside the Universe... Well, consider how many times humanity was ever correct in assuming that something we discovered was the only one of its kind. First we assumed that our Sun was the only Sun, and that our world was the only world. Then, once we figured out what a galaxy was, we, of course, concluded that our galaxy was the only galaxy. In these assumptions, we've proven to be about as wrong as any creature could be. Is it so irrational to consider that our Universe is not the ONLY Universe? In fact, in light of our 100% failure-rate in the past, wouldn't it be slightly irrational to presume otherwise? Perhaps there are as many Universes beyond ours, as numerous and varied as stars in our own. All with varying physical laws and properties. It would certainly answer why our Universe can support life. Given enough repetition and enough variation, it would be inevitable that Universes came about with adequate "settings" for life, just as it was inevitable that life would exist where it was possible at all. Maybe it's a sea of bubbles compacted or spread out amongst each other, like a zero-G ball-pit containing cosmos after cosmos. Or perhaps it's bubbles within bubbles, where Universes expand on forever from a singularity, while singularities within it form and accomplish the necessary density of matter to begin expanding into a new Universe from within, possibly having consumed the matter the previous singularity left behind. It's not that I know, it's that I know with absolute certainty that I don't. And I know with identical certainty that NOBODY knows, because nobody CAN. Not yet anyway. And until that "yet" comes, any speculation, including my own, is pointless. But, if you're truly a free-thinker, you can try the idea on like a hat for a few minutes, and see if things make any more sense.[/QUOTE] But what would be inbetween those universes, unless we have universes inside universes.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33137775]It's kind of using science to visualise what you see around you. As if someone gets a thrill that the wall is made of atoms. That kind of thing.[/QUOTE] In that case, why should getting a thrill from knowing a deity made the wall be any different to the thrill gotten from knowing the wall is composed of atoms?
[QUOTE=AK'z;33137775]It's kind of using science to visualise what you see around you. As if someone gets a thrill that the wall is made of atoms. That kind of thing.[/QUOTE] I'd call it "seeing with the mind". I only see a wall, but my mind sees so much more. I see the atoms, I see the chemicals of the paint and the studs and insulation within the wall. Much like looking at a star and realizing that bright twinkle is a massive thing indeed, a nuclear furnace an impossible distance away. I can see that while I THINK I could never touch it, I know the photons my eyes interact with, allowing me to see the star, came from that star. It's perspective I'd never have known without knowing the things I know. It can indeed be tiring to put on the "science-vision" indefinitely, so don't. Let your knowledge strike you when it does, and at other times, go about your day as normal.
[QUOTE=Sickle;33137923]In that case, why should getting a thrill from knowing a deity made the wall be any different to the thrill gotten from knowing the wall is composed of atoms?[/QUOTE] That's just me personally. I don't believe in deity, only maybe in the metaphorical sense but even then I only really look at life as a symbol.
[QUOTE=Sickle;33137923]In that case, why should getting a thrill from knowing a deity made the wall be any different to the thrill gotten from knowing the wall is composed of atoms?[/QUOTE] Why can't the wall of atoms have been made by a deity?
I saw this really interesting documentary called Into the Universe with Steven Hawking, and he said that because the universe is always expanding if you look at it in reverse that means it would get closer and closer together until it compacted into a very small space, and that is where the universe began.
[QUOTE=TheSporeGA;33136997]The fact is: We don't know how the universe was created, and to be honest I don't care. It's here just get over it. It could be a god, the big bang, but I just don't know. It's as simple as that. There is not answer that you can get any proof of.[/QUOTE] Not only are you entirely wrong on the last part, but that type of thinking precludes any and all progress made and to be made by humanity and any other organism or sentient being in the universe.
God almighty probably committed suicide and his corpse was used as nutrition for space to form. So in a sense god created us and yet he doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;33138644]Occam's Razor[/QUOTE] It's also a distinct possibility.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33133354]It's a question science will probably never be able to answer. Just like "what happens after you die".[/QUOTE] Why exactly is it impossible. In fact we actually do know how the world was created. Left over material from the sun formed the planets including are own. Oh and we kind of do know what happens when you die. You no longer have a functioning brain or any organs for that matter so all your senses and abilities go away.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33139024]It's also a distinct possibility.[/QUOTE] It's a possibility deriving from another.
Religion: God has always existed. Science: Before universe was nothing and something popped out from nothing. They're both mindfucks and impossible to disprove/prove
[QUOTE=Garik;33139148]Religion: God has always existed. Science: Before universe was nothing and something popped out from nothing. They're both mindfucks and impossible to disprove/prove[/QUOTE] this is a discussion to exchange thoughts on a complex topic. it isn't immediately conclusive.
[QUOTE=Variant;33139234]this is a discussion to exchange thoughts on a complex topic. it isn't immediately conclusive.[/QUOTE] Yes but sadly that's how it is.
There's no explanation. See, the human mind has been made to comprehend everything as far as beginning, middle, and end. We simply can't comprehend the fact that the universe most likely simply always has been. There probably wasn't a beginning, because time is just a concept. There's no explanation for it. It's just very coincidental that the Earth and all the other planets were created, which is where theists get mad and go "lol that's dumb" (and then proceed to believe in a giant man in the sky of whom we've yet to see anyhow yet is SO much more believable).
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