[QUOTE=ichiman94;52181061]What is linus trying to be? A sarcastic reviewer or a spoiled rich kid?
Because I cannot categorize his ignorant rant. It's not entertainment, neither tech tips.
It's a pile of forced shit with the obnoxious loud speaking and no value other than "oh yeah it costs this much".
Does he even know why camera systems are sold this way?
"You have to buy lens separately"
No shit, do you also whine when you buy a ILC body without kit lens? Because you are supposed to have lens if you just buy the body.
What's next? Will he rant about some office grade PC build not having a dedicated gaming videocard? Jesus fucking christ, cut this dude's advertising money and views already.[/QUOTE]
I think hes trying to be comedic
I thought he was David Tennant
[QUOTE=ichiman94;52181061]What is linus trying to be? A sarcastic reviewer or a spoiled rich kid?
Because I cannot categorize his ignorant rant. It's not entertainment, neither tech tips.
It's a pile of forced shit with the obnoxious loud speaking and no value other than "oh yeah it costs this much".
Does he even know why camera systems are sold this way?
"You have to buy lens separately"
No shit, do you also whine when you buy a ILC body without kit lens? Because you are supposed to have lens if you just buy the body.
What's next? Will he rant about some office grade PC build not having a dedicated gaming videocard? Jesus fucking christ, cut this dude's advertising money and views already.[/QUOTE]
the show he's making is about overkill things for abhorrent amounts of money, i.e. the $20K battery for their company or the workstation that doesn't really play games well but renders well (yeah he actually did that.)
in the case of this i think he's just trying to make the point that commercial grade equipment is ridiculously expensive because you're basically paying crazy amounts of money for the license to use the equipment (diminishing returns basically.)
also because he's running a production company, he needs to buy something like this, he did the same with 4K when it was relatively new and now it's a good investment. however, he's also paying out of basically his own pocket for it, since he runs the company, so i think if anyone gets to complain about a product's ridiculous pricepoint it's probably him.
here's his video on 4K back in the day, and how much he, as a much much smaller company, had to spend on the 4K camera in the day, and yet it payed off for them in the years to come. [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NFmpJNvd4k"]another video.[/URL]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp1KutlhZYs[/media]
nowadays it's not him making these big decisions, he just makes the final call. his video producers like brandon are the ones who ask him to do this.
I'm willing to bet that the biggest reason they're using proprietary SSD's is because they don't want people using anything else and then fucking the recording up and blaming them
It's a lot harder to see it as the same thing as apple does for example. Since apple is selling to a mass market, forcing people to buy $100+ of worthless bullshit per device is the way to shell money out
[QUOTE=J!NX;52181131]I'm willing to bet this is yet another thing that is specialized towards a specific market, I'm guessing its for the camera and has enough space that works with the speeds. Regardless, over-priced garbage or not these things are costly because they use experimental tech and are very, very hard to make. Regardless of whatever asinine reason they have, them selling SSD's like that have nothing to do with their marketing. That doesn't mean they are "Selling to rich kids". You are completely just missing the fucking point as to why this, a [U]FILM[/U] camera exists. It isn't some 40$ walmart camcorder you buy and then throw away when the screen gets chipped.
Several connectors on the camera could HAVE to be proprietary due to it being such a higher quality of camera. This isn't some wild thing to think about. This isn't exactly an iPhone where you aren't buying it as a full package and its a hyper-common mass production product where Apple shells out a fuckload of them and require 80$ cables to artificially inflate costs.
The 8k camera and lens itself should be expensive for obvious reasons. Everything else is as pricey as it is because they aren't mass production (There is no way that you can mass produce a camera like this), which is the cost of buying mass production. Not only that but it's using things found in the film industry, not shit that you, me, or Linus is going to have lying around. They aren't able to just connect whatever the fuck they want into it because their camera is all geared towards a specific usage.
Lets not forget that they're a cinema camera company above anything else. They have costs this high due to research and development, and likely to prevent companies from fucking them out of their cameras.
[editline]3rd May 2017[/editline]
They aren't marketing it for you dude. Nor are they marketing it to dumbass kids with too much money.
I have no idea why you insist on thinking that but it's just out of touch. It honestly doesn't matter who buys this anyways because they still are marketing it for what it is, a fancy ass camera.[/QUOTE]
as i said before, i'm not bashing the camera itself. no shit you're not going to get an 8k camera for $40, but there's no way in hell you can convince me that even the finest handle in the world, hand-crafted by master tibetan blacksmiths, is worth a thousand dollars
and what? red brand wingnuts are $20 a piece because they aren't mass production? are these proprietary wingnuts?
you're right in that it definitely isn't marketed towards me because i'm not ready to pay the price of a used car to make my camera look like a gun
[img]http://puu.sh/vEn7f/5940ef4d4a.PNG[/img]
[QUOTE=Jund;52181273]as i said before, i'm not bashing the camera itself. no shit you're not going to get an 8k camera for $40, but there's no way in hell you can convince me that even the finest handle in the world, hand-crafted by master tibetan blacksmiths, is worth a thousand dollars
and what? red brand wingnuts are $20 a piece because they aren't mass production? are these proprietary wingnuts?
[/QUOTE]
This is literally the issue with buying non-mass production. Anything that isn't mass produced has a huge cost, that's how it works. It's also clear that duh you aren't going to get an 8k camera for $40, my point is that this isn't some cheap shit that is mass produced and can just use mass production parts, this is something entirely unique and using mass production cables and parts likely wouldn't work at all. You're not going to see some shitty audio jack function with something like this, and clearly just connecting it with average joe's cable won't be smart either, unlike a $40 camera.
And if people don't buy over-priced tat, then it goes away, which is also how it works.
If you own a film company and think its bullshit, then you don't buy it. This is the risk they're running and its their risk to run. A company can simply not buy their product and that can happen.
[QUOTE=Jund;52181273]
you're right in that it definitely isn't marketed towards me because i'm not ready to pay the price of a used car to make my camera look like a gun
[img]http://puu.sh/vEn7f/5940ef4d4a.PNG[/img][/QUOTE]
[t]http://d3ae0koducpnek.cloudfront.net/uploads/asset_image/image/4f56981e6261f934b5000185/products_primary_790-0190_Gunner_Rig_2.jpg?v=1409196168[/t]
This looks like a gun?
Stupid names aside I think you're really really trying too hard and thinking too much on the marketing behind it. Slow the fuck down. Stop scanning the website for the 'next big thing' to shit on.
it's literally just how they brand it. Catchy names can work, even in the film industry.
Not only that, no, people aren't buying this shit to make it look like a gun, don't be a fool.
Pretty amazing how Pirates of the Caribbean 5 was filmed with the Red Dragon
[QUOTE=Jund;52179927]
i'm not bashing 8k cameras, i'm bashing them for charging $950 for a goddamn handle. they can charge such prices because there isn't any competition, not because they're barely going to make ends meet otherwise. if they were selling as many cameras to productions as claimed, then why do they need all the money-milking proprietary cables that cost hundreds of dollars to "make ends meet"?[/QUOTE]
hurr durr what's R&D cost and labor
These things sell in low quantities, meaning they need to be marked up in order to be profitable
[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;52180382]RED is living proof of why capitalism is wrong. Some chinese kid worked for no pay assembling these overpriced plastic toys, material cost like below the 100 USD, but they put the final price at multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for a barely functional camera. What is this bullshit?
Hitmen work for less money than the basic parts for this camera alone costed.[/QUOTE]
I would pay for a Chinese kid if he managed to assemble a high quality 8K camera that's considered to be one of the best professional, high-end camera out there. With its (very small) sensor ranking to be one of the best sensors out there, according to DxOMark?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sOVwYvL.png[/IMG]
But Idk dude, I doubt a chinese kid can do all that cool shit
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52180992]Source on that?
I don't see why they'd use cameras not capable of 4K for stuff like that.
[editline]3rd May 2017[/editline]
No, you see, these camera sensors are literally found outside on the streets.
they just put it in a plastic box and then sell it for $100 000 - total scam! :sax:[/QUOTE]
Tbh 4K isn't everything, people still use Arri cameras because of the more natural looking skin tones and for the longest time, it was a 2.7K sensor. Still, a lot of high budget movies finish in 2.7K because the DCP they give to theatres don't need to be any higher.
Pretty sure I could pay a team of artisan pixel artists to make an 8K movie for me pixel-by-pixel and frame-by-frame for less than this camera costs.
[editline]3rd May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;52181334]
This looks like a gun?
[/QUOTE]
This looks like what tacti-cool people put on guns.
[img]https://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/caa_49578.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Jund;52181013]most 8k cameras are prototypes or not for sale
[editline]3rd May 2017[/editline]
that's why they's selling proprietary form factor SSDs with half the r/w speed at 15 times the price right[/QUOTE]
That's another reason why they can charge so much. They are literally first on the market for an 8K camera and if you want the bleeding edge, you gotta pay for it or suck it up and wait.
The ssd are fast ones, not your ordinary 2.5 inch sata ones that go 500MB/s. They are much faster to support the 8K footage and for faster uploading. Also size and enclosure costs money.
[QUOTE=garychencool;52182077]That's another reason why they can charge so much. They are literally first on the market for an 8K camera and if you want the bleeding edge, you gotta pay for it or suck it up and wait.
The ssd are fast ones, not your ordinary 2.5 inch sata ones that go 500MB/s. They are much faster to support the 8K footage and for faster uploading. Also size and enclosure costs money.[/QUOTE]
yeah they're extremely unordinary in that they go 225 MB/s
[quote]Available in multiple capacities, standard grey models provide maximum read/write speeds up to 225 MB/s—while the turbo-charged red models can achieve up to 300 MB/s[/quote]
I do love the comments about rich kids.
In truth these are studio cameras. I worked with the scarlet RED on some films.
[QUOTE=Jund;52182106]yeah they're extremely unordinary in that they go 225 MB/s[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between the compressed benchmarks that everyone uses versus the uncompressed benchmarks that you should really use for speeds.
There's also a difference between the ssd being able to stay at those max speeds, be able to just quickly format without rewriting the entire card and still being able to achieve those speeds (some SSDs have shitty rewrite).
Oh and physical size. It's pretty small to cram almost a terabyte in them.
I like to think you're the kind of person who would complain about the price differences between the mSATA, NVMe and 2.5 inch SSDs.
Why the fuck does LTT even need this? They aren't shooting fucking movies, they're making stupid youtube videos.
You guys know that this is the point of a gunner right?
[IMG]http://cinescopophilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/RED-Gunner.jpg[/IMG]
I'm not defending the price point, but I'm just saying be aware.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52182009]
This looks like what tacti-cool people put on guns.
[img]https://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/caa_49578.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
yeah I'm totally sure film studios are shelling out tens of thousands of dollars specifically to make their camera look "taci-cool"
which maybe isn't your point but Jund's point was smartastically just that and for fuck sake lol
Anyone comaplining about high resolutions being worthless is pretty ignorant to downsampling, post-stabilization and cropping, and a ton of other stuff.
Some of this video is "what?" like the handle and stuff, but this is top of the line stuff such as the monitor. He compares just the size of the screen when in reality these things are precisely manufactured to represent correct color values, offer more options for film-making, etc. It's also all about supply and demand. Think about it, that handle is ONLY being made for this camera, which only a few people will own. How many hours do you think people spent designing and testing and manufacturing that one handle? The materials matter very little when it's the niche of expensive production equipment.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;52182660]Anyone comaplining about high resolutions being worthless is pretty ignorant to downsampling, post-stabilization and cropping, and a ton of other stuff.
Some of this video is "what?" like the handle and stuff, but this is top of the line stuff such as the monitor. He compares just the size of the screen when in reality these things are precisely manufactured to represent correct color values, offer more options for film-making, etc. It's also all about supply and demand. Think about it, that handle is ONLY being made for this camera, which only a few people will own. How many hours do you think people spent designing and testing and manufacturing that one handle? The materials matter very little when it's the niche of expensive production equipment.[/QUOTE]
"nah but man it's marketed towards rich kids, just like yeeze shirts. In reality cinema companies are the ones who just happen to buy them as well"
[QUOTE=dustyjo;52182307]Why the fuck does LTT even need this? They aren't shooting fucking movies, they're making stupid youtube videos.[/QUOTE]
this your first LTT vid? he just does things because he can, been like that for a good while now
[QUOTE=garychencool;52181803]Tbh 4K isn't everything, people still use Arri cameras because of the more natural looking skin tones and for the longest time, it was a 2.7K sensor. Still, a lot of high budget movies finish in 2.7K because the DCP they give to theatres don't need to be any higher.[/QUOTE]
I can't say I understand how one camera would do skin tones better than another nowadays with their high bit-depth recording capabilities.
It all looks flat right out of the camera anyways, it's up to the people post-processing it to decide how the skin tones will look.
how he recklessly handles it bothers me greatly.
The point of the video wasn't to complain about the RED camera because in its field, the RED Weapon is the best in its class with a justified price.
He was taking a piss on the ""accessories"" that you had to buy that were actually cheap plastics being labeled at 200 and above dollar that is required to have a functional camera.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;52182834]The point of the video wasn't to complain about the RED camera because in its field, the RED Weapon is the best in its class with a justified price.
He was taking a piss on the ""accessories"" that you had to buy that were actually cheap plastics being labeled at 200 and above dollar that is required to have a functional camera.[/QUOTE]
As everyone has already stated, it's basic economy of scale. They aren't mass producing these diddly little plastic handles etc., they're manufacturing very little since their market doesn't consist of millions of consumers, but rather a relatively small handful. It's gonna be more expensive producing 50 products in the longrun than it would be producing 5000.
[QUOTE=mokkan;52180538]they dont even use these all the time for movies, loads of action scenes in the avengers were done with canon 5ds and 7ds.[/QUOTE]
As a C or D camera, yes
[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;52180382]material cost like below the 100 USD[/QUOTE]
Nice meme. You've never actually built anything yourself, have you?
The LEMO connectors on the 200USD cable are about [url="https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/lemo/FHG.0K.302.CLAC45/1124-1164-ND/2786266"]87€ a piece at quantity on Digikey[/url], which means RED is probably getting them at about 60-65USD a piece.
They're basically not even making a profit on selling the cable, thanks to logistics costs.
I'd go more into it, but I just spent your imaginary 100USD BOM cost in one single fucking [I]cable[/I].
This video is so stupid. They bought a top class movie camera and are angry that it's not suitable for documentary shooting. It's like buying a humvee and complaining it's heavy or not as fast as you want. It's made to survive (those things are durable you wouldn't even believe) and adapt to various shooting environments (steadicam, drone, jib, underwater/whatever) while delivering the best video quality out there. Nobody uses XLR input straight to camera while shooting movies. I agree that RED proprietary shit is dumb but if you plan to use that camera you rent it for a set time, nobody buys those unless they want to rent it themselves.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;52179954]
Not to mention whinging about the cost - these damned things are a fucking miracle considering that before that, you'd need to rent out cameras that cost near about 200,000 [I]per camera[/I], which was ridiculous. At the price point these things are at, given the quality, the chance to own the fucking thing outright is a godsend for those serious about filmmaking. Not to mention 8K is pretty amazing, especially since standard (preferred) practise to my knowledge atleast is to record in a higher resolution and then downscale, with the ability to release the full scaled version at a later date.
That having been said, as Jund pointed out, charging 950 bucks for a fucking handle is like Apple-level scalping in a monopoly market. All it'll take is for a rival to enter the scene and things will even out pretty quickly.[/QUOTE]
It is insane scalping, but if anything, these have only gone down in price. Believe it or not.
I just recalled a story from 2011 about how James Cameron bought [url=https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/james-cameron-buys-50-red-epic-m-cameras-probably-for-avatar-sequels/][I]50[/I] RED Epic-M cameras[/url]:
[QUOTE]Cameron picked up Red’s Epic-M cameras, which are reported to run for roughly $58,000 apiece. They shoot at a 5K resolution [/QUOTE]
$58k for only 5k. Granted, that was 6 years ago. But the point remains, these are a "bargain" for small-time filmmakers.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52177983]And then he drops it[/QUOTE]
He only drops AMD products.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
