Postal 2 did really have a sense of style. Sure, it was borderline morbid because of the fact that you could quite literally piss on peoples headless corpses and etc. but at least it wasn't completely tasteless and didn't take itself seriously. This is lacking in taste for sure.
[QUOTE=Cold Finger;46278888]The reactions displayed by the victims made me feel off.
Stuff like Mortal Kombat and God of War aren't even that bad because it's just mindless gore for the sake of fun.
This game, on the other hand, is just disturbing.
Though, I have heard that Manhunt is pretty fucked up too, but I haven't played it.[/QUOTE]
Manhunt probably has the most gruesome, gut-twisting rendition of brutal murder in a video game ever. When you jam a shard of glass into someone's throat you can hear every little detail of it, the bloody gurgles, the cut flesh, everything. It's considerably more disturbing than head getting blown off into oblivion by a single shotgun blast.
Another game that's got some really tough stuff is Red Orchestra, because the audio clips of soldiers dying are really brutal.
[editline]20th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=AlexGT;46280057]Postal 2 did really have a sense of style. Sure, it was borderline morbid because of the fact that you could quite literally piss on peoples headless corpses and etc. but at least it wasn't completely tasteless and didn't take itself seriously. This is lacking in taste for sure.[/QUOTE]
Well postal 2 WAS completely tasteless but it had humor. It was basically the same type of dark humor as GTA but pushed to another extreme.
While we're posting fucked up video game scenes, this was one of the few that made me want to turn the shit off from the sheer gruesome moments. This guy was tied up and cut with razor blades, escapes then jump into a dumpster, that's fucking raunchy.
[video=youtube;B3kCo4DeiNY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3kCo4DeiNY[/video]
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;46271798]That's not even remotely comparable what are you doing?[/QUOTE]
Well, if It's just a game, shouldn't it fall under the same banner as Hatred?
Because it doesn't, the "It's just a game" argument can't really be used, since some games are indefensible.
I'd like to hear a discussion instead of getting disgrees.
[video=youtube;VAgA_yY9wt4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgA_yY9wt4[/video]
if this is a mod i'll buy the game
I'm still impressed with what they've done on UE4, though.
Just after hitting a million views, the devs had to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdEYapPXdY"]reupload[/URL] the trailer due to complaints from NYPD about police officers being slaughtered in their virtual trademark police station.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46275637]Oh a game with gory executions including dismemberment, both on and executed by the player. Let's see here :
The Punisher
Mortal Kombat (and a list of many clones including Thrill Kill)
Manhunt
Hotline Miami
Xmen Origins Wolverine
Dead Space
Tomb Raider
The Darkness
Prototype
Condemned
God of War
Dante's Inferno
Shadow of Rome (a game where you can tear off someone's arm and use it as a mace)
Dark Sector
Postal
I wouldn't say executions stand out because as far as games that are explicitly gory and violent go, finishers are almost a given. A lot of the games listed above have had some much more disturbing shit than shooting a woman in the mouth.[/QUOTE]
You're disregarding context. 90% of those games DON'T involve you killing defenseless civilians for the hell of it. Ahem
The Punisher - Criminals
Mortal Kombat (and a list of many clones including Thrill Kill) - LITERALLY SKULL NINJAS AND FOUR ARMED MACHO MEN
Manhunt - The PC is killing other people involved in the same jig, forced into it.
Hotline Miami - Russian Mobsters, again, forced into it.
Xmen Origins Wolverine - YOU ARE LITERALLY PLAYING AS WOLVERINE, A MAN WITH A METAL SKELETON AND CLAWS.
Dead Space - Necromorphs, space zombies.
Tomb Raider - Self defense, also weird shit, depending on if its the reboot or not.
The Darkness - You are an asshole. (Also mobsters)
Prototype - You are an asshole. (Also a living parasite thing)
Condemned - Psychotic criminals trying to kill you.
God of War - Mythical Creatures
Dante's Inferno - Mythical Creatures
Shadow of Rome (a game where you can tear off someone's arm and use it as a mace) - Random soldiers.
Dark Sector - Random mercenary dudes.
Postal - You are an asshole. (Also in Postal 2 its entirely optional and satirical.)
In total, there's 3/15 games in your list that involve you killing innocents for the hell of it.
The reason people don't like this game is because of the CONTEXT of the executions, they aren't criminals, they aren't giant monster things, they are innocent people scared for their life. You can hear them /begging/ for mercy in the trailer, and yet you just play people being disturbed by it off as squeamish, and offer a list of violent video games with no context.
The thing with this game is that its point is of shock value and media bait, it's TRYING to get attention to come to it and, if the developers were seriously inspired by Postal, the point of Postal flew right over their edgy heads. They've straight up admitted that they don't like it when games try to be more than just entertainment, and want to make a game that's trying to be as edgy as possible to 'go against' the 'norm'.
That wasn't my point though, the guy said the gory executions and the horrified screams stood out and I was just pointing out a whole bunch of games with gory executions and horrified screams in them as well, to show how little this feature actually stood out.
Also when I mentioned Dead Space I meant how Isaac was the one getting mauled to death :v:
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46290238]That wasn't my point though, the guy said the gory executions and the horrified screams stood out and I was just pointing out a whole bunch of games with gory executions and horrified screams in them as well, to show how little this feature actually stood out.[/QUOTE]
It does stand out though, because of its context.
[QUOTE=dvc;46290257]It does stand out though, because of its context.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how shooting weak people in the face with cartoony gore over it has more impact if it's a scared pleading civilian rather than a scared pleading mobster.
You literally impale people through the ass up to their mouths in The Darkness 2, and you can tear people's throats open in Manhunt. It doesn't need to be a bunch of civilians for it to be offputting, the grotesque nature of the action is enough.
If we're merely talking about civilians and people who didn't deserve it, God of War allows you and at some points forces you to gut civilians for HP or to progress. It involves stabbing them repeatedly in the chest cavity with a huge sword until they bleed out. Shadow of Rome's main character is forced to fight in an arena, so are the rest of the people in here. And "being an asshole" as you put it doesn't change the fact that in some cases you can outright massacre civilians, however optional or not (in postal 1 the people are responding with firepower but are arguably just trying to defend themselves against a maniac, in Prototype you can absorb civilians for HP, even though it's optional).
So, people just hate on this game because of it's (and it's developer's, apparently) extreme edge factor?
[QUOTE=Momotarou;46290305]So, people just hate on this game because of it's (and it's developer's, apparently) extreme edge factor?[/QUOTE]
That and its extremely generic looking gameplay, basically.
[QUOTE=Talvy;46286344]Just after hitting a million views, the devs had to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdEYapPXdY"]reupload[/URL] the trailer due to complaints from NYPD about police officers being slaughtered in their virtual trademark police station.[/QUOTE]
No. The NYPD emblem is a registered trademark. They can't use it.
The narrative of the game might deter actually playing it. That'd be interesting, especially if they can get you to feel strongly for the NPCs.
People are also fine with, say Payday 2, where you kill tons of cops, basically waging open war in the streets.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;46290561]People are also fine with, say Payday 2, where you kill tons of cops, basically waging open war in the streets.[/QUOTE]
But the cops on the payroll of some evil corporation and the crew is modern day Robin Hoods!
[QUOTE=Rubs10;46290346]No. The NYPD emblem is a registered trademark. They can't use it.
The narrative of the game might deter actually playing it. That'd be interesting, especially if they can get you to feel strongly for the NPCs.[/QUOTE]
These guys used to work at Farm 51 and that team's games didn't exactly appeal by their complex narrative or indepth characters. They're big dumb actions games, that's basically it.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;46290561]People are also fine with, say Payday 2, where you kill tons of cops, basically waging open war in the streets.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's really weird how dehumanized some enemy types feel in video games, like cops and army men. GTA V sort of makes fun of that because the cops are absolute pieces of shit and so is everyone else, the game treats everybody like a huge asshole.
Same could be said about Prototype, you're the villain in that game and the policemen followed by the military that you kill early on are just doing their job. The blackwatch are massive cunts, though.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;46290561]People are also fine with, say Payday 2, where you kill tons of cops, basically waging open war in the streets.[/QUOTE]
yeah and in that game when you have alot of money you end up killing all the civilians instead of tying them so they dont get away
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46290844]These guys used to work at Farm 51 and that team's games didn't exactly appeal by their complex narrative or indepth characters. They're big dumb actions games, that's basically it.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say they'd be doing it intentionally.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46290844]Yeah it's really weird how dehumanized some enemy types feel in video games[/QUOTE]
That's my point. The people you're supposed to kill in this game are as humanized as possible. It's interesting.
Well if they were actually dehumanized in that game they wouldn't scream or plead or anything, they'd just keel over and die like the cops do in payday.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;46290346]No. The NYPD emblem is a registered trademark. They can't use it.[/QUOTE]
t-that's exactly what I said?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46291105]Well if they were actually dehumanized in that game they wouldn't scream or plead or anything, they'd just keel over and die like the cops do in payday.[/QUOTE]
when you kill something dehumanized, in a fictional world, it takes away the edge and won't make you feel so bad about doing it. the character here has dehumanized the people of his world, but he forgot one important thing: make the player dehumanize those people too.
postal/gta/saints did it by making them unrealistic caricatures. payday/hotline did it by making them your enemies. in most rpgs, if you go on a killing spree, things tend to get silly due to bad or clumsy AI, or just characters doing things they wouldn't do. here? they aren't your enemies, at least not the civilians. nobody's really fighting back, they're just trying to get away. they're portraying realistic reactions to these brutal murders. these people you kill in hatred are not just some civilian npc, they're human. they react like humans would, they suffer the same too. not only that, but you're doing it [I]en masse[/I], like a fucked up person would do. honestly, i can do the same in any other game that doesn't take itself seriously, but when characters are reacting beyond the "oh my god!" reactions we've come to know and love, it becomes less funny and more fucked.
now that i think about it, maybe they are fighting against social norm. but i don't think being a homicidal maniac is really the social norm you want to side yourself with (besides, there's a ton of other examples that do it better anyways, that actually discuss the idea of what it means to BE a homicidal maniac, and what effect that has on you personally, a.k.a. understanding the problem but not agreeing with it)
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46292083]these people you kill in hatred are not just some civilian npc, they're human. they react like humans would, they suffer the same too.[/QUOTE]
You went full retard here.
They've made a somewhat big post regarding the neo-nazi accusations and other shit:
[quote=Their site]
Hello to all of you!
Those were a long, long few days since our trailer relase. We feel obligued to write down this post to report how things are going and to set some light on a few things. First of all we have to quote: "well, that escalated quickly!". We knew that our reveal will cause some shitstorm, but never expected it to be so huge. We wish to thank all of our haters and all upset press for a great marketing campaign they've done for us. A week ago, we were a little company from the middle of nowhere, just some guys making some game. Today everyone heard about "Hatred" and us. All thanks goes to those who were trying to harm us (with no desired effect, what a pity). On the other hand - we didn't expect that much of support and we weren't aware of how many people are out there, who think like us and who will entitle themselves as our dedicated fans. We want all of them to know: we won't stop, we won't change what this game is going to be and we'll deliver the best game we can to all of you!
Many can call us "attention whores" - well, we try to get world's attention to our product and as you can see - it worked perfectly. But there are some true attention whores out there, who are trying to imply that we are neo-nazis and some other stupid stuff. Do not believe everything you read on the web, especially written by no-name pathetic bloggers or some unhappy guys commenting around the web. From all of the shitstorm upon us, that was the only thing which really made us pissed-off, because it's simply too much. I've been told that it would be best for each member from my team who were accused of such things to write down his statement and publish it. So here we go:
"My grand-grand father was killed by Gestapo. Some members of my family were fighting against nazi occupation in the polish underground army called "Armia Krajowa". My forefathers suffered greatly because of totallitarian regimes, so who the fuck would I be if I'd truly support any of nazi activists? People give "likes" on Facebook all the time, even if they don't know what is exactly behind this or that fanpage. I did the same. Suddenly it makes me neo-nazi, great, have fun you stupid ass haters. Learn some history first, because when I read about "polish death camps" it makes me disgusted. You don't know shit about our history and you fall easily to false propaganda. The hateful title I'm working on (where virtual character hates virtual characters), doesn't have any connection to what I truly believe and think, there is a real-life outside, you know? Maybe you should try it? I will never ever again respond to any of those accusations, this is my ultimate statement."
J. Z.
"Nazi Germany is responsible for killing 6 milion people in Poland. Half of them were Jews, half of them Polish. My family suffered many losses during the World War II. Anybody accusing me for being a follower of said ideology should really think twice before doing so and consider reading some books on the topic. This is basic history knowledge really and also happens to be a very personal matter for me. I am not a neo-Nazi nor a fascist and it is utterly disgusting to be called this way. And I have to say it’s really surprising for me how somebody from the United States especially can have troubles understanding such simple and universal values as patriotism, honoring one own national symbols and caring for the future of his own country. Values like pluralism , democratic opposition and the right to manifest one own views shouldn’t be called ‘the lack of tolerance’. Finally regarding my attitude towards gays let me just say that I have a few gay friends that I deeply respect as people and have no problem with their sexual orientation."
M. K.
"In response to repeated allegations against me, I’d like to state that I’m opposed to all totalitarian ideologies. The t-shirt that I’m wearing on our team picture refers to National Polish Army troops, that in 1945 refused to lay down arms and continue fighting against the new invader, to regain independent Poland. They did so because they’ve rightly anticipated Soviet security service repressions against Polish already demilitarized army. I would also like to emphasize that until the year 1945 those troops were actively fighting against the Third Reich occupation. Those soldiers are Polish national heroes and as such deserve commemoration. Just as much as American troops that lose their lives fighting against terrorism. As to organizations that profiles I follow, they refer to the patriotic and libertarian tradition, and not to the totalitarian ideology."
J. S.
There is one more thing - accusing Hatred to be some kind of racist game. What the hell is wrong with you, people? The Antagonist is killing everyone equally, race doesn't matter (it's randomly generated for all NPC's), sex doesn't matter (it's random too), so you can call it the most tolerant game, promoting equality. Here everybody dies.
BTW: We've established our official forums, you can see the link above, on the menu bar.
Jarosław Zieliński
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;46290561]People are also fine with, say Payday 2, where you kill tons of cops, basically waging open war in the streets.[/QUOTE]
The game gives you a role and character to play, and you roll with it. It's over the top, there's barely any blood, and everybody you're [I]supposed[/I] to shoot shoots back at you, unless you manage to sneak up on them first.
You also have goals besides killing everyone, and the narrative supports that. The narrative coincides with the objectives and action, whereas in this game it's a 40 second snippet to justify mindless slaughter.
One is a violent game with justification for its violence, one is a violent game with a very shaky attempt at justification.
[editline]21st October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;46295356]They've made a somewhat big post regarding the neo-nazi accusations and other shit:[/QUOTE]
Haha wow, what a belittling paragraph of trash that does nothing but say "no YOU!!!"
All I know is playing this game won't make me think murdering people is any less horrific in reality, but I'm not some youtuber or "journalist" that needs to point my finger.
edit: does wanting to try this, epsecially after the backlash, make me like, literally!, a sociopath?
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;46295356]They've made a somewhat big post regarding the neo-nazi accusations and other shit:[/QUOTE]
They do have a point about people intentionally miscontextualizing it as sexism or racism. It's surprising and concerning how people and respected news outlets easily take in the misinformation that bloggers make. I would understand if it's an one hour stream, but it was a one minute trailer that anyone could see.
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;46295356]They've made a somewhat big post regarding the neo-nazi accusations and other shit:[/QUOTE]
so rather than face the real problem (being fucking insane,) they focus on the minor problem that is questionable by the general populous (being a nazi??) to make them seem above the critics. like no shit you're not a nazi, you're just a cunt shooting people.
gotta say, that's some ripe innovation on backpedaling right there. it's like "guess who i'm not? a neo-nazi! checkmate."
also, saying "what the hell is wrong with you, people?" to any section of your audience or any group that's trying to critique you is probably one of the dumbest things you can do as a company, or a person representing that company, no matter how justified.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46297337]so rather than face the real problem (being fucking insane,) they focus on the minor problem that is questionable by the general populous (being a nazi??) to make them seem above the critics. like no shit you're not a nazi, you're just a cunt shooting people.
gotta say, that's some ripe innovation on backpedaling right there. it's like "guess who i'm not? a neo-nazi! checkmate."
also, saying "what the hell is wrong with you, people?" to any section of your audience or any group that's trying to critique you is probably one of the dumbest things you can do as a company, or a person representing that company, no matter how justified.[/QUOTE]
They've been accused of being Neo Nazis and they've had their game accused of being a "a racist genocide sim", what do you expect them to do? I don't understand what is so bad about saying "Hey guys, we're not fascists and you're kind of silly for thinking it!".
It's no more "trying to act above the critics" than an unpopular forum user being accused of being a pedophile stepping up and saying "Woah, what the fuck, that's not true!" is.
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