[QUOTE=Athena;22432508]...Sure is some stunted ethics in here.[/QUOTE]
I wonder who you agree with...
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432494]No he doesn't, don't talk about what you don't know. The judge is the ref of a court and absolutely does not decide the decision of the jury.[/QUOTE]
Yes, judges can overrule the jury. It has happened numerous times.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22432498]Why do you think Morals don't matter? This isn't morals like "he killed cute puppy murder him!1", it's morals like "person who helps humans is worth more than person who destroys humans", which is a totally logical thing to think.[/QUOTE]
My problem isn't with morality it's with those two words, "worth more". It means absolutely nothing and implies even less.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432419]The facilities are just prisons where the executions take place. Why does it matter if the government owns them or not, it might even be a privately owned prison.
The government is ran by the people, so the people allow the executions to go on.[/QUOTE]
It matters because the government is sanctioning the event, providing the chemicals, the equipment, and the staff necessary for the execution to happen.
And the "by the people" part is bullshit. It is clearly a case study of the tyranny of the majority if the people allow executions to go on.
EDIT: You're also a complete queef if you think that the judges are just "refs." They can overrule the jury, impose penalties, decide the necessary punishment, hold people in contempt of court, ect ect. How about [I]you[/I] don't talk about stuff you don't know? I'm a year into prelaw, mi amigo.
Why the heck doesn't it?
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22432513]Yeah, it's about punishment that doesn't involve fucking over society even after they murder someone.[/QUOTE]
How does sticking a murderer in prison rather than killing them fuck over society?
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432517]Some states do still use the electric chair.[/QUOTE]
As a secondary method - which has not been used. But that's a pointless point to argue.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22432506]Jury does not issue sentences in criminal cases numb nuts. Jury can only issues damages in a civil case.[/QUOTE]
I never said the jury decides sentences. The jury decides if the defendant should be found guilty or not, not the judge.
Yes it should. I actually just did a debate about this in my class.
On average, it costs about three times more (due to extra trials, high court fees, deep investigation, etc.) to execute a man that it does to keep them in prison for life.
There are so many varying statistics on the cost for prison, but it ain't cheap.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22432527]Yes, judges can overrule the jury. It has happened numerous times.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but very rarely. Few judges will do that knowing their going against the public's decision. Looks very bad on the judge.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22432540]Why the heck doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
Why doesn't "worth more" imply anything?
Angsty answer: Because an individual human is practically worthless anyway so any differences in worth between two of us is negligible.
Logical answer: Because morality and worth are human concepts and entirely subjective.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432560]I never said the jury decides sentences. The jury decides if the defendant should be found guilty or not, not the judge.[/QUOTE]
Yes you did, but not replying properly to what you were replying to.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432578]Maybe, but very rarely. Few judges will do that knowing their going against the public's decision. Looks very bad on the judge.[/QUOTE]
And like the other guy said; judges decide the sentence in criminal cases, not the jury.
[editline]11:26PM[/editline]
ninja
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22432579]Why doesn't "worth more" imply anything?
Angsty answer: Because an individual human is practically worthless anyway so any differences in worth between two of us is negligible.
Logical answer: Because morality and worth are human concepts and entirely subjective.[/QUOTE]
Angsty teens are silly, being of large intelligence, sentience, and all that we are is the most privileged thing we can get in the universe.
Logical people are fine, but then isn't murder being bad subjective? Maybe it was a good reason? It makes perfect sense to some people (namely the murderer) but not to others.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22432501]Electric chair is not used anymore. What about the fee for the executioner? What about the administration fees?
And you forgot the most expensive part... the automatic appeal. More expensive then the imprisoning a murder for life.
It's not all about the money anyway.[/QUOTE]
You don't get that I'm alluding to the Vista Card commercial?
It cannot possibly be worth more than the 1 million dollars per year which it costs to keep criminals who will continue to commit more crimes later in life, or take more money from welfare once they are out of prison. Evil people deserve to die, it is the only way to make everything fair.
Anyway, we should cut costs one way or another.
You both are idiots. The judge does NOT convict the defendant, the jury does.
1 million a year is more than anyone's parents spend on them...ever
[QUOTE=M4 Sherman;22432618]You don't get that I'm alluding to the Vista Card commercial?
It cannot possibly be worth more than the 1 million dollars per year which it costs to keep criminals who will continue to commit more crimes later in life, or take more money from welfare once they are out of prison. Evil people deserve to die, it is the only way to make everything fair.[/QUOTE]
Yes I realised you were taking off the [b]MasterCard[/b] ad, but okay.
1 million dollars per year is the estimate given by supporters of the death penalty. There are actually jails in the US that have reduced the cost of inmates to 95c per day.
The appeals take up much more money then you possibly realise.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432633]You both are idiots. The judge does NOT convict the defendant, the jury does.[/QUOTE]
Was that a reply to me?
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432633]You both are idiots. The judge does NOT convict the defendant, the jury does.[/QUOTE]
And you are a silly boy for not understanding the criminal justice system in this silly country of our's. And for resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of addressing my points.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432633]You both are idiots. The judge does NOT convict the defendant, the jury does.[/QUOTE]
Judges issues the SENTENCE. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says. Therefore, capital punishment is state-sanctioned.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22432605]Angsty teens are silly, being of large intelligence, sentience, and all that we are is the most privileged thing we can get in the universe.
Logical people are fine, but then isn't murder being bad subjective? Maybe it was a good reason? It makes perfect sense to some people (namely the murderer) but not to others.[/QUOTE]
Murder being bad IS subjective. The majority of society feels that killing someone else is only acceptable in self-defense. Capital punishment is not self-defense, it's retribution. Something that would land an ordinary citizen in jail. I assume you're a conservative, so you should hate the fact that the state is being given so much more power than the people.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22432688]Judges issues the SENTENCE. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says. Therefore, capital punishment is state-sanctioned.
Murder being bad IS subjective. The majority of society feels that killing someone else is only acceptable in self-defense. Capital punishment is not self-defense, it's retribution. Something that would land an ordinary citizen in jail. I assume you're a conservative, so you should hate the fact that the state is being given so much more power than the people.[/QUOTE]
I'm not conservative, just because I don't always agree with liberal ideals doesn't mean I'm the exact other side.
Personly I think if there is enough evidence aginst you that you killed a man willfully then you are to be put to death by hanging (Its cheap and if done properly can be very painless, you die instanly). Also for everyone else that has been convicted of a crime we should have chain gangs. Doing hard labor for the community and punishment for what they have done. It also give some back of the money for keeping them in the prison. It won't make them come back since it will be hard labor 5 days a week 6 hours a day. I even read that there is prison that has a camp in the hot sun to make it as uncombfroble as possible. If you misbehave you don't get sent to the hole you get sent to the chain gain were its like a military and they shape you up. and they nearly cut down the revolving door effect around 50% (Correct me if I am wrong)
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22432714]I'm not conservative, just because I don't always agree with liberal ideals doesn't mean I'm the exact other side.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, my fault for making assumptions.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22432670]Yes I realised you were taking off the [b]MasterCard[/b] ad, but okay.[/QUOTE]
Oh shit! what the hell was I thinking, how could I mix the two up? Feel free to rate my comment "dumb".... my opinions are now obsolete on this thread :(.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22432688]Judges issues the SENTENCE. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says. Therefore, capital punishment is state-sanctioned.[/QUOTE]
Silly boy. Judge issues the charges, grand jury decides if those charges should be brought forth to the defendant. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says [b] based on the decision of the jury.[/b]
Just because the judge has the final word does not mean it's decided by him.
[QUOTE=M4 Sherman;22432744]Oh shit! what the hell was I thinking, how could I mix the two up? Feel free to rate my comment "dumb".... my opinions are now obsolete on this thread :(.[/QUOTE]
i just lol'd at the visa being mispelled vista
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432764]Silly boy. Judge issues the sentence and charges, grand jury decides if those charges should be brought forth to the defendant. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says [b] based on the decision of the jury.[/b]
Just because the judge has the final word does not mean it's decided by him.[/QUOTE]
Our problem is not with the jury saying "Guilty". Its with the judge's verdict of "Death penalty." Can you really not understand the difference?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22432736]Fair enough, my fault for making assumptions.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry about it, I can see why you'd think that way.
[QUOTE=Ragy;22432764]Silly boy. Judge issues the charges, grand jury decides if those charges should be brought forth to the defendant. "Guilty" is what the jury says. "Death penalty" is what the judge says [b] based on the decision of the jury.[/b]
Just because the judge has the final word does not mean it's decided by him.[/QUOTE]
Ugh, no, the judge decides on the sentence if a conviction is given by jury. It's up to the judge, and previous precedents set by judges, to determine the setence.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;22432800]Our problem is not with the jury saying guilty. Its with the judge's verdict of "Death penalty." Can you really not understand the difference?[/QUOTE]
Dear god I already explained this. It's up to the grand jury to charge the defendant with a death penalty.
[editline]04:41AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22432812]Ugh, no, the judge decides on the sentence if a conviction is given by jury. It's up to the judge, and previous precedents set by judges, to determine the setence.[/QUOTE]
Grand jury is not the same as a jury.
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