Should death penalty be abolished - General

Depends on the situation. I don't think many people deserve to know when they're going to die, by date and time.

[QUOTE=PieClock;22481849]Depends on the situation. I don't think many people deserve to know when they're going to die, by date and time.[/QUOTE] Alright, so are you saying that we should surprise them?

We(most of us)are part of first world countries and we shouldn't take an eye for an eye like savages.

[QUOTE=aydin690;22481939]Alright, so are you saying that we should surprise them?[/QUOTE] No I'm saying it shouldn't happen at all, until rare occasions.

I think it should be reserved for the most serious of crimes. ie mass killings, serial rape+murder, long term torture etc

I oppose the death penalty because people mistakes. In a trial people can and have been sentenced to death for false evidence and after they died it is later revealed they were innocent. Whoops, ohwell ur dead. With sanctions other than the death penalty, if new evidence is found the accused can still go free, albeit with 20 or so years of their life gone, but atleast they can still live in freedom. Dead people can't. One function of law is rehabilitation. Death penalties do not rehabilitate. Cos they're dead. And if the death penalty is supposedly needed because imprisonment does not work, then imprisonment should be made better, not death penalty.

[QUOTE=AuRonchampion;22480898]The death penalty is established for one main reason. People go to jail on a first offense for say 20 years. They get out of jail and what do they do, they go kill someone. Keeping someone in prison does nothing but get them bored and angry. When they build up that anger in prison they release it once they are out thinking that they will never get caught again. The death sentence was created because most people feel like letting someone die is wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is just sick and twisted and therefore deserve to die. That is the typical train of thought. This train of thought is the main stream and [B]for once it's actually right.[/B] Not only should the death sentence be continued it should be increased for anyone committing 1st degree murder. Of course there will always be exceptions to this as there are with every law. I truth it is all a matter of opinion, just like the rest of politics and t[B]here is no right and wrong answer [/B]because it all depends on your religious and social upbringings.[/QUOTE] :rolleye: Just because an idea is held by many people doesn't give me more weight than the alternative. Besides I live in the UK, most people here don't want a death penalty hence there not being one and this is repeated more often than not in the rest of the world. Out of 194/195 countires only 18 of them use the death penalty, if we're going by mass opinion surely that should count for something.

Depends on the situation but if you get framed for a murder and lose the case you are likely to be death penaltied and that would suck.

I don't understand why some of you, *cough*Zeke129 Warhol*cough*, think that there is some magic unwritten code of ethics that humanity follows when it comes to right vs. wrong. Do you believe a mentally insane serial killer is going to have mercy on you if you find yourself in a corner with a knife at your throat, because killing is "wrong"? That's an extreme example, but it happens. This "We are not free to choose who lives or dies, it is not our right" argument is just naive and inane. These supposed killers wouldn't hesitate to break your neck to get out of prison. Do you see what I'm getting at? And yes, there are people who aren't as cold-hearted that get sent to jail, usually for a petty crime. But these are not the people on death row. Killing the people who've just done muderous, almost unmentionable acts should not be given the right to continue living; their punishment is greater than any other. By killing them, we erase them from society: they can no longer harm anyone again. Like a parasite almost. By just locking them up, that's one more person with a deathwish that you're letting prison guards take care of, the state, and the taxpayers. Another take on it: life sentences are not efficient, and do not prove a point. You throw away the key. Out of sight out of mind. "Oh, we'll let him rot to death and let him suffer for what he's done, that'll show him and the other killers on the streets. At least we didn't kill him, and we can feel good about ourselves." That's almost selfish in a way. The people sentencing the guy can sleep soundly at night that they didn't murder anyone, but the criminal in question is probably wishing he was dead already. And it's not like the criminal has remorse after he's dead, BECAUSE HE'S DEAD. Fogoing murder is really just an excuse to make people feel better about themselves, even when the inmate in question wouldn't treat you the same way. [editline]09:32AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Callius;22485124]Out of 194/195 countires only 18 of them use the death penalty, if we're going by mass opinion surely that should count for something.[/QUOTE] The USA has a death penalty, but the amount of criminals we execute is so small and the expenses so large we might as well not have one.

[QUOTE=AuRonchampion;22480898]The death penalty is established for one main reason. People go to jail on a first offense for say 20 years. They get out of jail and what do they do, they go kill someone. Keeping someone in prison does nothing but get them bored and angry. When they build up that anger in prison they release it once they are out thinking that they will never get caught again. The death sentence was created because most people feel like letting someone die is wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is just sick and twisted and therefore deserve to die. That is the typical train of thought. This train of thought is the main stream and for once it's actually right. Not only should the death sentence be continued it should be increased for anyone committing 1st degree murder. Of course there will always be exceptions to this as there are with every law. I truth it is all a matter of opinion, just like the rest of politics and there is no right and wrong answer because it all depends on your religious and social upbringings.[/QUOTE] hey gais killing is WRONG so we'll kill you to teach you that killing people is wrong, but killing killers is right, it's not wrong because... well, yeah. [editline]06:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Fecal Face;22480629]Jail is stupid. It's a waste of money. Hell, for some criminals, it's even [i]desired[/i]. For example: You and a bunch of your criminal friends are homeless. You have no food, nowhere to sleep, and no money. Nobody talks to you or pays any attention to you. You and your criminal friends go murder a bunch of people. Your punishment? You're given a bed, meals every day, and a bunch of other criminals to talk and socialize with. Gee, that must suck.[/QUOTE] You have never seen a prison, have you? lol you are pretty ignorant. [QUOTE=lefundoof;22480534]Or at least test new products on.[/QUOTE] Easy there, Mengele. [QUOTE=FunnyBunny;22480849]It's crazy to want them to pay for the costs of keeping them alive? Instead of having hard working civilians pay for keeping criminals in prisons, doing nothing useful? Having them pay for their own survival is perfectly acceptable. Consider the options: 1. You get executed. 2. You get to spend the rest of your days alive, in jail, but you have to work off the cost of the food and services provided to you.[/QUOTE] Dude, when you say "labour camps", it kind of conjures up pretty fucked up images. A labour programme is a better term.

[QUOTE=White Rabbit;22482408]We(most of us)are part of first world countries and we shouldn't take an eye for an eye like savages.[/QUOTE] That's not why the death penalty is in place. The death penalty is one of the most obvious and powerful displays of government legal authority. The ability to not only put someone to death, but put them to death with the full backing of government law and regulation, shows the authority and power the State can wield.

[QUOTE=PiPBoyV3;22485795]I don't understand why some of you, *cough*Zeke129 Warhol*cough*, think that there is some magic unwritten code of ethics that humanity follows when it comes to right vs. wrong.[/quote] what the FUCK do you think Ethics are? [quote]Do you believe a mentally insane serial killer is going to have mercy on you if you find yourself in a corner with a knife at your throat, because killing is "wrong"?[/quote] Uh, i'm not the state warden, so no, this has fucking nothing to do with anything. [quote] That's an extreme example, but it happens.[/quote] so you're arguing mentally ILL people have mental problems? Any other observations, genius? [quote]This "We are not free to choose who lives or dies, it is not our right" argument is just naive and inane.[/quote] No, it's actually humanity you fucking psychopath. [quote]These supposed killers wouldn't hesitate to break your neck to get out of prison. Do you see what I'm getting at?[/quote] Because when you kill, you de-evolve, tru storie. lol, this is not even a point... what the fuck are you trying to prove? A killer will break my nose to get out of jail... People will break my nose for my wallet, so we kill people to prevent that? or we ban wallets... or... dude i can't even think of some sarcastic remark because I don't know how that's fucking relevant at all. You're not making any sense. [quote]And yes, there are people who aren't as cold-hearted that get sent to jail, usually for a petty crime. But these are not the people on death row. [/quote] Problem here is you're generalising. You think that all murderers are angry, deranged, violent criminals who are fucked up on heroin or some shit. people kill for lots of reason. Passion, lust, money, property, hate, love, depression, thrill etc. [quote]Killing the people who've just done muderous, almost unmentionable acts should not be given the right to continue living; their punishment is greater than any other. By killing them, we erase them from society: they can no longer harm anyone again. Like a parasite almost. By just locking them up, that's one more person with a deathwish that you're letting prison guards take care of, the state, and the taxpayers.[/quote] lol, what a fine young man you are. ok, Goebbels, answer me this: what the fuck is it accomplishing? also, what if you kill the guy and he's innocent. (mind you this happens close to half the time) do you just shrug your shoulders and go "WHOOPSY". Your little scumbag ritual of slaughtering people because of their crimes is pretty naive and stupid. It accomplishes absolutely NOTHING [quote]Another take on it: life sentences are not efficient,[/quote] Oh christ... are you like 13? [quote] and do not prove a point.[/quote] You have to be fucking kidding me. [quote]You throw away the key. Out of sight out of mind. "Oh, we'll let him rot to death and let him suffer for what he's done, that'll show him and the other killers on the streets. At least we didn't kill him, and we can feel good about ourselves." That's almost selfish in a way.[/quote] ok you were trying to make a point and you just went off on a tangent. do you have ADD? [quote] The people sentencing the guy can sleep soundly at night that they didn't murder anyone, but the criminal in question is probably wishing he was dead already. And it's not like the criminal has remorse after he's dead, BECAUSE HE'S DEAD.[/quote] you have NEVER seen a prison, been in one, or met a person who has ever been close to one. know what, I'll leave you with this: Norway. [quote]Fogoing murder is really just an excuse to make people feel better about themselves, even when the inmate in question wouldn't treat you the same way.[/quote] this is a gross generalisation and you have nothing to back it up. and you STILL made a sloppy comment with no point or relevance. [quote]The USA has a death penalty, but the amount of criminals we execute is so small and the expenses so large we might as well not have one.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you arguing? You are so over the place with your points. You go off on fucking tangents and shit. [editline]06:41PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;22489699]That's not why the death penalty is in place. The death penalty is one of the most obvious and powerful displays of government legal authority. The ability to not only put someone to death, but put them to death with the full backing of government law and regulation, shows the authority and power the State can wield.[/QUOTE] yeah it is. statistically that doesn't show much. There is more crime in states with the death penalty then without. as well as countries with and without. [editline]06:42PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Chopstick;22485238]Depends on the situation but if you get framed for a murder and lose the case you are likely to be death penaltied and that would suck.[/QUOTE] don't tell that to pipboy, he'll think you're a derange despot. [editline]06:43PM[/editline] then start talking about balloons as if they're relevant.

some info about the cost of an inmate: The cost of keeping a prisoner locked up in a U. S. prison, on average, is more than it costs for most college students in tuition for a year. It is reported that it runs anywhere from $15,000 to $18,000 a year for a prison inmate. As for an execution, there is no real statistic for this, but I would imagine that due to the extra correctional officers they have to have on had to hold down any inmate disturbance, monitor death row, it would probably cost upwards of $20,000 for one execution. by the way, in the U.S. , you can choose which way to die if in certain states.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;22480930]Yeah, if a 17 year old gang member goes out and kills 2 people, then gets sent to jail, he already payed for his stay, huh? It actually astonishes me how you guys think it's acceptable for criminals that get a life sentence to sit idle in prison, receiving free accommodations that most civilians have to pay dearly for. Free food is undeniable, it would be simply inhumane keeping people locked up without food or water. But when it comes to other things, like health care, etc, I believe criminals need to work to receive them.[/QUOTE] Morgan spurlock did this segment where he stayed in prison and stayed with prisoners for 30 days. as well as Michael Moore in his Sicko documentary, went to a Norwegian island prison and spoke to some inmates. it was almost universal: being contained in a prison for a long time is dreadful. Free food or not. (food wasn't very good by the way) and this also brings me another point, you're obviously young: because if you were older, you would probably be fucking disgusted with the idea of being in one place your ENTIRE life. Or 20 years. Or even a year for that matter. let me propose a scenario: you have some sort of disease where you have to be contained in a hospital for the rest of your life or a very long time to be more realistic. I mean, free Television, food, cards, entertainment once in a while, free healthcare etc. Right, now make the care in that hospital pretty shitty. Does it REALLY sound that good when you compare it to having to spend your life in that hospital? [editline]06:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=codemaster85;22489936]some info about the cost of an inmate: The cost of keeping a prisoner locked up in a U. S. prison, on average, is more than it costs for most college students in tuition for a year. It is reported that it runs anywhere from $15,000 to $18,000 a year for a prison inmate. As for an execution, there is no real statistic for this, but I would imagine that due to the extra correctional officers they have to have on had to hold down any inmate disturbance, monitor death row, it would probably cost upwards of $20,000 for one execution.[/quote] Uh you obviously didn't look into, there ARE statistics for how much it costs to kill a person. FFS, this has bee covered SEVERAL times in the thread. [quote]by the way, in the U.S. , you can choose which way to die if in certain states.[/QUOTE] how humanitarian [editline]06:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=aydin690;22481815]How so? Care to elaborate?[/QUOTE] so if you kill killers, wouldn't the killer of the killer be a killer? [editline]06:57PM[/editline] [QUOTE=aydin690;22481939]Alright, so are you saying that we should surprise them?[/QUOTE] that's not his point.

[QUOTE=pie_is_good;22450420]um no it's been posted 45 times (I pulled that number out of my ass just like you did) that it costs more to kill them than to keep them in prison [/QUOTE] Yeah, but that cost includes keeping the asshole in jail for 30 years under super strict supervision and dealing with all the appeals in court (Which must be processed before the prisoner can be executed, and people make new ones up all the time to keep the prisoner alive). <-- The capital punishment has been done incredibly inefficiently.

God no! The death penalty should not be done away with. If you ask me they should bring the electric chair back in all the states. Its BS that prisons are over flowing already but doing away with the death penalty is absurd!

[QUOTE=Muse06;22490976]God no! The death penalty should not be done away with. If you ask me they should bring the electric chair back in all the states. Its BS that prisons are over flowing already but doing away with the death penalty is absurd![/QUOTE] Another child who gets his rocks off to state murder.

[QUOTE=Warhol;22491036]Another child who gets his rocks off to state murder.[/QUOTE] I am just saying that people who choose to murder someone should pay the price for it whether it means lethal injection or the chair.

I think it should be heavier

I think people who get prison sentences should be forced in to psychological treatment and after they are let free there would be a period in which the are rehabilitated.

Person kills 20 people. Goes to jail and kills others. No death penalty.

Write about the Church's position on it: [QUOTE=Keep me]Pope John Paul II position on capital punishment is consistent with the Church’s near total opposition to the death penalty. He believes it is to be used as a last resort, in the case of absolute necessity, in order to ensure the safety of society. The main goal of punishment is to correct negative behaviours while eliminating the threat to society. This amendment in conduct is only possible if the disciplinary action is limited to punishments less severe than the death penalty. This offers a chance for the offender to redress their wrongful actions, which results in sparing a life and eradicates the need to isolate the individual. This method of dealing with criminals is effective as it is easy to detect an erratic individual, and to monitor their progress in assuming a proper course in conduct. From this point of vantage, appropriate action can be taken, such as the death penalty in the case where the individual cannot function in society after been given proper rehabilitation. This use of the death penalty is intended to benefit society and the offender as much as possible, while maintaining public safety.[/QUOTE]

Death penalty is Ok by me [U]BUT[/U] Keeping someone is a box for 25 years [I]THEN[/I] killing them is not Ok

Lets be civilized, we didn't give life so we shouldn't take it away.

No

[QUOTE=codemaster85;22489936]some info about the cost of an inmate: The cost of keeping a prisoner locked up in a U. S. prison, on average, is more than it costs for most college students in tuition for a year. It is reported that it runs anywhere from $15,000 to $18,000 a year for a prison inmate. As for an execution, there is no real statistic for this, but I would imagine that due to the extra correctional officers they have to have on had to hold down any inmate disturbance, monitor death row, it would probably cost upwards of $20,000 for one execution. by the way, in the U.S. , you can choose which way to die if in certain states.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufsf_-a_H9Q[/media] For the last time... [quote=http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty]The death penalty in the U.S. is an enormously expensive and wasteful program with no clear benefits. All of the studies on the cost of capital punishment conclude it is much more expensive than a system with life sentences as the maximum penalty. In a time of painful budget cutbacks, states are pouring money into a system that results in a declining number of death sentences and executions that are almost exclusively carried out in just one area of the country. As many states face further deficits, it is an appropriate time to consider whether maintaining the costly death penalty system is being smart on crime.[/quote] If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut up. [editline]08:40PM[/editline] Whoever said that your brains somehow filter out the fact that killing them costs more than keeping them alive was right, it ain't even funny anymore.

[QUOTE=Muse06;22491088]I am just saying that people who choose to murder someone should pay the price for it whether it means lethal injection or the chair.[/QUOTE] The world is not black and white like that.

[QUOTE=Maucer;22490888]Yeah, but that cost includes keeping the asshole in jail for 30 years under super strict supervision and dealing with all the appeals in court (Which must be processed before the prisoner can be executed, and people make new ones up all the time to keep the prisoner alive). <-- The capital punishment has been done incredibly inefficiently.[/QUOTE] Streamline the death penalty. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Possibly been posted before, but about cost issues - I don't see why they bother with costly lethal injections when an volley from the firing squad is just as effective, and much, much cheaper. You could just rig up the firearms to some sort of machine to fire them to get rid of the guilt of the shooters. Pressing a button to execute them would place no more psychological stress on the person doing it than giving an injection would, maybe even less.

[QUOTE=Warhol]what the FUCK do you think Ethics are? Uh, i'm not the state warden, so no, this has fucking nothing to do with anything. so you're arguing mentally ILL people have mental problems? Any other observations, genius? No, it's actually humanity you fucking psychopath. Because when you kill, you de-evolve, tru storie. lol, this is not even a point... what the fuck are you trying to prove? A killer will break my nose to get out of jail... People will break my nose for my wallet, so we kill people to prevent that? or we ban wallets... or... dude i can't even think of some sarcastic remark because I don't know how that's fucking relevant at all. You're not making any sense. Problem here is you're generalising. You think that all murderers are angry, deranged, violent criminals who are fucked up on heroin or some shit. people kill for lots of reason. Passion, lust, money, property, hate, love, depression, thrill etc. lol, what a fine young man you are. ok, Goebbels, answer me this: what the fuck is it accomplishing? also, what if you kill the guy and he's innocent. (mind you this happens close to half the time) do you just shrug your shoulders and go "WHOOPSY". Your little scumbag ritual of slaughtering people because of their crimes is pretty naive and stupid. It accomplishes absolutely NOTHING Oh christ... are you like 13? You have to be fucking kidding me. ok you were trying to make a point and you just went off on a tangent. do you have ADD? you have NEVER seen a prison, been in one, or met a person who has ever been close to one. know what, I'll leave you with this: Norway. this is a gross generalisation and you have nothing to back it up. and you STILL made a sloppy comment with no point or relevance. What the fuck are you arguing? You are so over the place with your points. You go off on fucking tangents and shit. [editline]06:41PM[/editline] yeah it is. statistically that doesn't show much. There is more crime in states with the death penalty then without. as well as countries with and without. [editline]06:42PM[/editline] don't tell that to pipboy, he'll think you're a derange despot. [editline]06:43PM[/editline] then start talking about balloons as if they're relevant.[/QUOTE] Ok, Warhol. Since you think your excuse of a post is a legitimate argument against my "nonexistant points," I'll return to you in kind (Note: you did not make one rebuttle in your entire post; it consisted of misinformed insults and one-liners. FYI, I'm 19...and you're 20. I guess maturity is all in the mind, hmm?) Moving on: [QUOTE=Warhol]what the FUCK do you think Ethics are?[/QUOTE] This is what I had in mind: [B]"[/B]Ethics (also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy which seeks to address questions about morality; that is, about concepts such as good and bad, right and wrong, justice, and virtue." - Wikipedia entry on ethics Gee, that sounds a lot like what we're discussing here. Is it morally right to kill a person? Is it morally wrong to kill a person? Death penalty vs life sentence. If you don't undertand the relation here, then I pity you. [QUOTE=Warhol]Uh, i'm not the state warden, so no, this has fucking nothing to do with anything.[/QUOTE] I didn't say you were working as a guard at a prison facility. But those people have to live and put up with the degenerates that get sent there. That's not an easy job, especially when there's thousands upon thousands of them. If you're imprisoning these people and giving them life sentences, then it certainly has something to do with it. [QUOTE=Warhol]so you're arguing mentally ILL people have mental problems? Any other observations, genius?[/QUOTE] The people that have the mental issues are the ones responsible for the serial killings, or what have you; they are the ones being put on death row, or plead isanity. I don't know about you, but normal people I know don't go out to rape and kill because the voices in their heads are telling them to. [QUOTE=Warhol]No, it's actually humanity you fucking psychopath.[/QUOTE] Hahahaha. Because I'm being logical I'm a psychopath. Here's the deal: people that get put on death row are not the kind of people you want out functioning in everyday society. Why waste the time and money sending them to jail for the rest of their meaningless lives when you can kill them right then and there and not have to worry about them again? And yeah, innocent people get put to death, and that won't change. Our legal system is in no way perfect. But I don't remember anyone ever telling me life is fair. [QUOTE=Warhol]Because when you kill, you de-evolve, tru storie. lol, this is not even a point... what the fuck are you trying to prove? A killer will break my nose to get out of jail... People will break my nose for my wallet, so we kill people to prevent that? or we ban wallets... or... dude i can't even think of some sarcastic remark because I don't know how that's fucking relevant at all. You're not making any sense.[/QUOTE] The irony hurts. Can anyone tell me what this guy is trying to say? My obvious point was that when you choose to give someone a life sentence instead of execution, you are "saving their life." They will die of old age in a jail cell (or more likely, be killed by another violent inmate). The people on death row are fucking husks of people. Why show that mercy? You can't imagine what it feels like to have someone very close to you have their life taken. You want the worst thing imaginable to happen to the person responsible, and sitting in a jail cell for life is nowhere close to the punishment. An eye for an eye. [QUOTE=Warhol]lol, what a fine young man you are. ok, Goebbels, answer me this: what the fuck is it accomplishing? also, what if you kill the guy and he's innocent. (mind you this happens close to half the time) do you just shrug your shoulders and go "WHOOPSY". Your little scumbag ritual of slaughtering people because of their crimes is pretty naive and stupid. It accomplishes absolutely NOTHING Oh christ... are you like 13? You have to be fucking kidding me.[/QUOTE] I'm getting tired of typing, so I'll wrap this up. It's very, very obvious you are misinformed on this subject. I suggest you watch the specials on Discovery channel when they're on, read wikipedia, discuss with other people knowledgeable on the subject, etc. But here, I'll humor you. This should be obligatory, but this is what killing a violent, disturbed individual accomplishes: it rids them from existence. They can no longer hurt anyone, or become a burden of the state. Their life is over; they had a chance to contribute to a working society of human beings and they decided to kill instead. Punishment. No one else is going to do it. Don't bullshit me and tell me that doing so and so is wrong, or this is right. We are all animals living on this rock of a planet. In the right situations, we all devolve into animals. Take away the civilization, the structure, religion, and politics and we become violent beings. All of ethics and moral philosophy as we know it has been created by man, and man has proven time and time again to be fallible. Yet you use that as an excuse as to why the death sentence is incorrect.