Mandatory Organ Donation - General

Pretty sure all your organs get removed if an autopsy is done anyway, so you most likely won't be whole when you get buried. But in some religions it is required for the entirety of the body to be buried. Pretty sure Judaism is one of them.

I'm not sure there would even be a demand for new organs if everyone was forced to do it because they would be in abundance. Certainly make an effort to encourage organ donation but both from all the other issues associated with it, we wouldn't need that many. I'd prefer donating my organs, filling the corpse with sawdust and then being cremated. Of course if I happen to die before my mother, she will do the traditional thing of no organ donation and buried. Not sure if this sentiment is expressed in a larger portion of younger people and organ donation is becoming more acceptable but it seems possible.

[QUOTE=Autumn;34404690]yeah my bad. i was more trying to explain to the guy who thinks that you're not actually dead when they take your organs that you are dead. they just have to keep manually manually keep pumping the blood through your body and oxygen into your lungs since your brain is no longer able to do so. [editline]26th January 2012[/editline] 7. How do they know you are really dead? Organs are only removed for transplantation after a person has died. Death is confirmed by a doctor or doctors who are entirely independent of the transplant team. Death is confirmed in exactly the same way for people who donate organs as for those who do not. Most organ donors are patients who die as a result of a brain haemorrhage, severe head injury, or stroke and who are on a ventilator in a hospital intensive care unit. In these circumstances, death is diagnosed by brain stem tests. There are very clear and strict standards and procedures for doing these tests and they are always performed by two experienced doctors. The ventilator provides oxygen which keeps the heart beating and blood circulating after death. These donors are called heartbeating donors. Organs such as hearts, which deteriorate very quickly without an oxygen supply, are usually only donated by a heartbeating donor. Patients who die in hospital but are not on a ventilator can, in some circumstances, donate their kidneys, and in certain circumstances, other organs. They are called non-heartbeating donors. Both heartbeating and non-heartbeating donors can donate their corneas and other tissue. 8. Can they keep you alive with machines? No. The patient is dead. A ventilator keeps the body supplied with oxygen and this means the heart will continue to beat and circulate blood. This preserves the organs so they can be donated for transplant. When the ventilator is turned off the heart will stop beating within a few minutes. there we go [url]http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/questions/answers/answers_3.jsp#q7[/url][/QUOTE] Really interesting, this was my only reason of doubting being an organ donor and I hadn't really researched this before. People can use my organs to save others if they want to as long as I am definitely a lost cause. and there's no chance of saving me. I want to be cremated anyway so the rest of me is just going to burn.

[quote]approximately 10 donors per million population.[/quote] Of course we must keep in mind that this is mainly due to the difficulty of getting a person who has made it their intention to donate organs into the operating room to do so. They usually reserve it for the brain-dead.

[QUOTE=Pitchfork;34409758]I have the solution: Cremation. None of you fools are getting MY organs.[/QUOTE] You do know you're not magically cremated the second you die right? They have plenty of time to take out all the useful stuff :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=LF9000;34409997]People have a right to not having their corpses "harvested" if you will, after death.[/QUOTE] Do you have any arguments to support your statement?

[QUOTE=Surma;34415140]Do you have any arguments to support your statement?[/QUOTE] Do you have any arguments to support why we should begin stripping away rights in the name of the "Greater Good?" It's not exactly his duty to provide a defense of the current establishment on things, but rather the one that wishes to change it.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34415820]Do you have any arguments to support why we should begin stripping away rights in the name of the "Greater Good?" It's not exactly his duty to provide a defense of the current establishment on things, but rather the one that wishes to change it.[/QUOTE] Stripping away which rights, exactly? Please do tell.

How would you determine which people are more suitable donors? By having an opt-out rather than an opt-in system, [B]someone[/B] would have to be paid to check the medical history of the deceased, and even then, given the high amounts of obesity in the US, the amount of rejected donors could make the effort wasted money. Around six to seven thousand people die every day.

[QUOTE=Hidole555;34418796]How would you determine which people are more suitable donors? By having an opt-out rather than an opt-in system, [B]someone[/B] would have to be paid to check the medical history of the deceased, and even then, given the high amounts of obesity in the US, the amount of rejected donors could make the effort wasted money. Around six to seven thousand people die every day.[/QUOTE] What the FUCK are you talking about? Do you even have any idea what we're talking about here at all?

Situation: I own a lot and a house on it. If the dead retain their rights, why would I not be in a position to go die in that house and make it my will that nobody shall ever enter or touch that house as if I was still living in it? That's not possible(right?) because it's stupid and detrimental to the community. Same goes for one's organs. Burning them or sticking them in the ground to rot is stupid and detrimental to the community. Thus I would support absolute mandatory organ donation(however oxymoronic that sounds, as well pointed out). Because such totalitarianism isn't generally a good thing either, I'd very much be willing to support the opt-out system. Just like it's in the law that the ownerhood of your material non-you possessions get by default transferred to your family, why is it anymore problematic regarding the corpse's rights to by default transfer the organs to people who need them. Anyone can sign a will and express their desires for all possessions, including their body. If using your organs requires your express consent, why doesn't every other action done to your lifeless body? How dare they put me in a dark morgue and then bury/cremate my remains! How dare they transport my body in a black long-reared car! How dare they use my body in life-saving research after I died to a newly mutated virus that could wipe out the entire human race! Respect the memory of the dead, their intellectual legacy. Not the flesh and blood machine, the vessel that will rot away.

"mandatory donation" lol

Eh, as long as my brain doesn't get taken out and put in robocop 2 the docs can take what they like.

fine, mandatory vital organ give away.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34418327]Stripping away which rights, exactly? Please do tell.[/QUOTE] We still have rights after we die. Our corpses are still treated well and it's a felony to abuse them. We have the decisions we made in life about how our estate will be divided up honoured by law. We are not animals who can just have their corpse butchered because they don't need it any more.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;34421867]We still have rights after we die. Our corpses are still treated well and it's a felony to abuse them. We have the decisions we made in life about how our estate will be divided up honoured by law. We are not animals who can just have their corpse butchered because they don't need it any more.[/QUOTE] But our corpses aren't butchered.

I totally understand the reasoning behind compulsory organ donation, but frankly it's up to the people who would donate their organs to decide. I know from a personal standpoint, I don't like the idea of donating organs, and I decided not to register to be an organ donor when I got my driver's license. Some may call it selfish, but it's really not their right to decide what I do or don't do with my body, in life or death.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34421967]But our corpses aren't butchered.[/QUOTE] We still have rights though. Many of our wishes are still carried out when we die and aside from a few legal/practical issues, what happens to our corpse is also our choice. Mandating organ donation removes the choice people have over what happens to them.

Yeah, sure. Just don't touch the brain. I want that cryopreserved D:

[QUOTE=Devodiere;34422178]We still have rights though. Many of our wishes are still carried out when we die and aside from a few legal/practical issues, what happens to our corpse is also our choice. Mandating organ donation removes the choice people have over what happens to them.[/QUOTE] Once it becomes law, that won't be an issue anymore, so I don't get your point.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34422955]Once it becomes law, that won't be an issue anymore, so I don't get your point.[/QUOTE] "Once constant internet surveillance and censorship becomes law, privacy won't be an issue anymore, so I don't get your point." Do you notice the problem with what you just said?

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34423051]"Once constant internet surveillance and censorship becomes law, privacy won't be an issue anymore, so I don't get your point." Do you notice the problem with what you just said?[/QUOTE] His argument against mandatory organ donation is not that it is unethical or unwanted to not give someone the right to decide what to do with his body. His argument is that you ARE allowed to decide what you want done to your body, thus it can't be mandatory. Which is ridiculous, because once it's law you aren't allowed to decide anymore thus it isn't an issue anymore.

[QUOTE=Ridge;34411512]Pretty sure all your organs get removed if an autopsy is done anyway, so you most likely won't be whole when you get buried.[/QUOTE] Everyone who dies goes through an autopsy if there is a body. All the organs in the torso are removed, but inserted again before closing the body. Nothing is left behind.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;34423491]Everyone who dies goes through an autopsy if there is a body. All the organs in the torso are removed, but inserted again before closing the body. Nothing is left behind.[/QUOTE] Unless the dead guy is a religious objector. [IMG]http://www.quantium.plus.com/venturist/pcard.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;34415820]Do you have any arguments to support why we should begin stripping away rights in the name of the "Greater Good?" It's not exactly his duty to provide a defense of the current establishment on things, but rather the one that wishes to change it.[/QUOTE] That's terrible rhetoric. People who want to maintain the status quo have just as much responsibility to back up their decisions as those who wish to change it. [editline]28th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;34383581]If absurd conclusions can be drawn from your premises, your premises are faulty.[/QUOTE] That's ridiculous. If I said "I think that man can land on the moon" and you extrapolated it to "this means man can land on any moon", it doesn't make the original premise faulty. Your conclusions are no measure of the value of his argument. [editline]28th January 2012[/editline] Personally I think it's selfish to suppose that your body is worth a thing after you're dead, but I would never support a mandatory organ harvest if people feel it strips away their rights to inviolability of the body. I'd propose some form of increased education on the subject so that more people who aren't objectors on religious grounds would feel more comfortable with their recently deceased organs going to someone who has need for them. Unlike your estate, your body isn't of much or any value to you and your kin once you die, so I don't really follow the logic behind thinking your body needs to be whole and untouched when you're either burned or left to rot in an aluminium box, the worms will just do the job if the doctors don't.

I know in Canada you have no say what happens to your organs after death, your next of kin decides. My cousin was supposed to donate his organs, but his super Christian mom said no and had him cremated. I wouldn't donate when I died. I came in this world whole, I am going to leave this way.

As selfish as it sounds I want to be buried whole. No autospy, no organ donations. I want my body intact when it leaves earth. Making it mandatory is saying "I don't care what you said when you were alive, your dead now and we can do whatever we want to your body." And Mobrockers argument is almost dictator-like. So you want it to become a law so we have no choice but be cut open and "harvested" for organs? Making everybody be a doner? Say a 2 year old dies in an accident, so your gonna cut open a 2 year old and take out all it's organs to use in science just because you believe it is more helpful to the community. It's the persons rights, their body is their property and they should be able to decide what happens to it. (2 year old of course can't decide so a family member would decide.) Religious values and practices can also play a role in restricting this from ever happening. I personally don't want to be cut open by medical staff when I die, I don't like the thought of doctors prying through my body once I'm dead. Your brain, your dominating organ in your body and your source of life. Your consciousness, your thoughts, sometimes defined as even your "soul" everything that ever gave you any creative ideas or abilties is being cut out and given to someone else. Your having your skull cut open and your brain removed from your head. Even if you are dead, that's quite a horrid thing to think of. I'm sorry for the wall of text but I have very firm beliefs that the body should be part of the will and the will should be followed. Call it selfish. Call it unproductive to the community. Everyone dies eventually so why would I give up my dead organs and let doctors disrespect my dead body by cutting it open just so you can give my organs to someone who will die sooner or later. No other person or group should decide what happens to you or your possessions after you die. Now that the whole "Your selfish and lazy for wanting to preserve your body fully!" argument is out of the way, I want to see a good reason to give your organs out.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34425870]Now that the whole "Your selfish and lazy for wanting to preserve your body fully!" argument is out of the way, I want to see a good reason to give your organs out.[/QUOTE] You have not answered it at all. If you want to answer that whole "[I]you're[/i] selfish and lazy for wanting to preserve your body fully!", you must answer why you want your body buried whole? So far you have failed to give your reason for doing so, other than I don't want to. Simply put - you're dead when you're dead, and unless you hold some sort of religious belief, there is nothing afterwards. You have no rights, you can't have rights. You have no reason to be buried whole. And unless you believe in something after death, you physically can't care if they use your organs to help keep someone else alive. I met someone who actively spoke out (at least to his peers) against organ donation, after some Government members in NSW, Australia hinted that organ donation might become opt-out rather than the opt-in system. He spoke out against it because he believed the body should be whole when it's buried. Oddly enough, and sadly, he was diagnosed with liver cancer - something that can be overcome with a liver transplant. Guess who shut up after that, and of course rescinded all their previous ideas on the topic.

I'm an organ donor but no, it shouldn't be. Basic respect for the wishes of the deceased is a fundamental principle of our society and forcing people to give their organs flies directly in the face of that. Even from a secular standpoint, I don't think it's right to force that upon people.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34425870]As selfish as it sounds I want to be buried whole. No autospy, no organ donations. I want my body intact when it leaves earth. Making it mandatory is saying "I don't care what you said when you were alive, your dead now and we can do whatever we want to your body." And Mobrockers argument is almost dictator-like. So you want it to become a law so we have no choice but be cut open and "harvested" for organs? Making everybody be a doner? Say a 2 year old dies in an accident, so your gonna cut open a 2 year old and take out all it's organs to use in science just because you believe it is more helpful to the community. It's the persons rights, their body is their property and they should be able to decide what happens to it. (2 year old of course can't decide so a family member would decide.) Religious values and practices can also play a role in restricting this from ever happening. I personally don't want to be cut open by medical staff when I die, I don't like the thought of doctors prying through my body once I'm dead. Your brain, your dominating organ in your body and your source of life. Your consciousness, your thoughts, sometimes defined as even your "soul" everything that ever gave you any creative ideas or abilties is being cut out and given to someone else. Your having your skull cut open and your brain removed from your head. Even if you are dead, that's quite a horrid thing to think of. I'm sorry for the wall of text but I have very firm beliefs that the body should be part of the will and the will should be followed. Call it selfish. Call it unproductive to the community. Everyone dies eventually so why would I give up my dead organs and let doctors disrespect my dead body by cutting it open just so you can give my organs to someone who will die sooner or later. No other person or group should decide what happens to you or your possessions after you die. Now that the whole "Your selfish and lazy for wanting to preserve your body fully!" argument is out of the way, I want to see a good reason to give your organs out.[/QUOTE] Why do people like you assume that just because you're a donor, or just because everyone is forced to be a donor, every single person would have their organs removed? And that everyone's organs would get transplanted? And what the fuck makes you think that your brain will be removed? Since it's obvious none of you can make informed decisions and all come up with BS reasons let me propose something else: Anyone that isn't an organ donor, isn't applicable to receive any organ donation when/if they would need it. Gets us rid of all the selfish pricks and religious folks, because really, why should they get my organs?