Mandatory Organ Donation - General

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34428381]Why do people like you assume that just because you're a donor, or just because everyone is forced to be a donor, every single person would have their organs removed? And that everyone's organs would get transplanted? And what the fuck makes you think that your brain will be removed? Since it's obvious none of you can make informed decisions and all come up with BS reasons let me propose something else: Anyone that isn't an organ donor, isn't applicable to receive any organ donation when/if they would need it. Gets us rid of all the selfish pricks and religious folks, because really, why should they get my organs?[/QUOTE] You advocate religious discrimination? I do not know about other countries, but in the United States, the State is not allowed to discriminate based on religion. Why do you assume that religious/ non-donating persons are "selfish pricks"

[QUOTE=LF9000;34428414]You advocate religious discrimination?[/quote] How is that religious discrimination? Because clearly religious people would be affected? So as long as that is not published, I don't see the discrimination. I don't see how if you're religious, you could be the recipient of an organ donation anyway. If their God doesn't want them to donate their organs after death, I don't see how it's okay to be the recipient of one?

Definitely not.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34428381]Why do people like you assume that just because you're a donor, or just because everyone is forced to be a donor, every single person would have their organs removed? And that everyone's organs would get transplanted? And what the fuck makes you think that your brain will be removed? Since it's obvious none of you can make informed decisions and all come up with BS reasons let me propose something else: Anyone that isn't an organ donor, isn't applicable to receive any organ donation when/if they would need it. Gets us rid of all the selfish pricks and religious folks, because really, why should they get my organs?[/QUOTE] you need to calm down. continuing to swear at people and claim that "it's obvious none of you can make informed decisions and all come up with BS reasons" is going to get you banned. this is a debating forum, not a i'm-going-to-keep-using-the-word-fuck-to-back-up-my-arguments-because-it-validates-my-opinion-more-than-yours. [editline]28th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34425870]As selfish as it sounds I want to be buried whole. No autospy, no organ donations. I want my body intact when it leaves earth.[/QUOTE] what happens if you die in a car crash? let's say you get beheaded, or an arm and a leg get lopped off and since you're already definitely dead, i doubt the surgeons are going to waste a good few hours in the ER to reattach limbs to a dead body. what happens then? since your body is already 'incomplete' would you now consider organ donation, or should i say, would you let your next of kin consider organ donation?

Mandatory organ donation is a bad idea, I would prefer to have the free choice.

It's disrespectful as shit. I'm an organ donor, hell, they can have everything. I personally don't care what happens to my body but you have to respect other peoples wishes. You wouldn't walk up to a dead body and rifle through their pockets with the justification of "lol they dun need it".

[QUOTE=kebab52;34428693]You wouldn't walk up to a dead body and rifle through their pockets with the justification of "lol they dun need it".[/QUOTE] Their belongings might contain some value to the family, and thus you wouldn't take it, however, organs do not necessarily have a value to family. In most cases, the family won't need the organs, but another person may. I personally do not comprehend how someone can maintain personal possessions of their organs if they can't use them anymore. You have to respect their wishes, which is why an organ donor opt-out system is probably the best option.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;34427611]You have not answered it at all. If you want to answer that whole "[I]you're[/i] selfish and lazy for wanting to preserve your body fully!", you must answer why you want your body buried whole? So far you have failed to give your reason for doing so, other than I don't want to. Simply put - you're dead when you're dead, and unless you hold some sort of religious belief, there is nothing afterwards. You have no rights, you can't have rights. You have no reason to be buried whole. And unless you believe in something after death, you physically can't care if they use your organs to help keep someone else alive. I met someone who actively spoke out (at least to his peers) against organ donation, after some Government members in NSW, Australia hinted that organ donation might become opt-out rather than the opt-in system. He spoke out against it because he believed the body should be whole when it's buried. Oddly enough, and sadly, he was diagnosed with liver cancer - something that can be overcome with a liver transplant. Guess who shut up after that, and of course rescinded all their previous ideas on the topic.[/QUOTE] Sorry for mispelling a word, it obviously means so much to you. The thought of my body being disrespected just so it can be taken out for organs sounds like a really ungrateful idea. In my opinion the body should stay whole even after death. The thing about this is that this entire argument is purely opinion based so I don't even see a reason to argue back. I'm not going against a opt-out system. I think that an opt-out system is just as effective as the opt-in system. I'm not against that opt-out system either, but I don't think it should be mandatory for a body to be used solely for organs for the still living. I've already mentioned that everyone dies in the end so why would you cut open the dead to keep the living alive for a few more years? Autumn, I don't consider organ donation still. If the body is basically destroyed, let it be destroyed. Say all my limbs get cut off, I don't want doctors to do even more damage to my body, I want it to be left alone. I understand what your trying to say though, I guess I am selfish? The thought of surgery has always freaked me out, even if I would be dead, so it might just be a personal phobia or something of that nature. The only exception in my opinion would be if someone of my family or group of friends needs an organ transplant or something, I think that is the only reason I would ever want my organs to be taken. I don't like the thought of helping a random stranger, if I want to save someone I want it to be someone who I know and who would actually appreciate it compared to a random stranger who might be "Oh my gosh someone gave me their liver what a good person!" for about 30 seconds then never think of it again.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]Sorry for mispelling a word, it obviously means so much to you. The thought of my body being disrespected just so it can be taken out for organs sounds like a really ungrateful idea. In my opinion the body should stay whole even after death. The thing about this is that this entire argument is purely opinion based so I don't even see a reason to argue back. I'm not going against a opt-out system. I think that an opt-out system is just as effective as the opt-in system. I'm not against that opt-out system either, but I don't think it should be mandatory for a body to be used solely for organs for the still living. I've already mentioned that everyone dies in the end so why would you cut open the dead to keep the living alive for a few more years? Autumn, I don't consider organ donation still. If the body is basically destroyed, let it be destroyed. Say all my limbs get cut off, I don't want doctors to do even more damage to my body, I want it to be left alone. I understand what your trying to say though, I guess I am selfish? The thought of surgery has always freaked me out, even if I would be dead, so it might just be a personal phobia or something of that nature. The only exception in my opinion would be if someone of my family or group of friends needs an organ transplant or something, I think that is the only reason I would ever want my organs to be taken. I don't like the thought of helping a random stranger, if I want to save someone I want it to be someone who I know and who would actually appreciate it compared to a random stranger who might be "Oh my gosh someone gave me their liver what a good person!" for about 30 seconds then never think of it again.[/QUOTE] By that logic you should never take any medicine or ever see a doctor. Hell, by that logic you should never try to fix anything that is broken. Fan broken? Oh damn now I have to buy a new computer. Pencil tip broken off? Oh damn now I have to get another pensil. Because why fix it? It's going to completely break eventually. Why not stop eating, why not stop breathing? You're going to die anyways, no reason to postpone it by doing silly thing like eating and breathing. On another note, would you undergo transplantation if you were the one needing it? [editline]28th January 2012[/editline] And do you seriously think that the person that might get one of your organs won't appreciate it? Many will have been on a waiting list for months, years even. You just saved their life, they're gonna be grateful.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;34429783]Their belongings might contain some value to the family, and thus you wouldn't take it, however, organs do not necessarily have a value to family. In most cases, the family won't need the organs, but another person may. I personally do not comprehend how someone can maintain personal possessions of their organs if they can't use them anymore. You have to respect their wishes, which is why an organ donor opt-out system is probably the best option.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with the opt-in system we have right now? Increase awareness of it, and explain how it helps people.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]Sorry for mispelling a word, it obviously means so much to you.[/quote] There were enough spelling errors in your previous post. I didn't highlight the 'you're' to point out it was a speling error. [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]The thought of my body being disrespected just so it can be taken out for organs sounds like a really ungrateful idea. In my opinion the body should stay whole even after death. [/quote] I'm asking why? Regardless of if you agree with mandatory organ donation or not, you still need to have a justifiable opinion of why you think that, otherwise it's plain ignorance? Is it because you maintain some religious belief? Not a problem. Or is it because you have some communicable issue, such as a disease you don't want shared? Also not a problem. Simply saying, "I want my body whole" does not really suffice when it comes to argument terms. [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]I've already mentioned that everyone dies in the end so why would you cut open the dead to keep the living alive for a few more years?[/quote] That's a really sadistic view to hold. Seeing as how we're all going to die, why don't you go kill yourself now? No point in living if we're just going to die soon anyway. Perhaps you still want to live while you have the chance of being healthy? [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]I don't like the thought of helping a random stranger, if I want to save someone I want it to be someone who I know and who would actually appreciate it compared to a random stranger who might be "Oh my gosh someone gave me their liver what a good person!" for about 30 seconds then never think of it again.[/QUOTE] That is just selfish, and nothing but. If you don't like helping a random stranger, why should anyone ever help you? Organ donation has a lot of variables - often a family will not be able to use an organ donation because they are incompatible (sometimes it helps the situation, other times no). So if everyone has views like you, organ donation is close to impossible. This selfishness is a problem in today's society - not just with organ donation. Never help, never be kind, never take responsibility and never take blame for what you should. We're a selfish society now, and views like yours ("I just don't want to") are what makes the situation get worse each year. [editline]29th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=kebab52;34430806]What's wrong with the opt-in system we have right now? Increase awareness of it, and explain how it helps people.[/QUOTE] People are inherently lazy - many people wouldn't care if they were to donate their organs after they're dead, however they cannot be bothered to fill in the form. An opt-out system means the people with disagreeance with organ donation have to come forward and signify so. Means more people on the system, more organs being donated.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;34430884] An opt-out system means the people with disagreeance with organ donation have to come forward and signify so. Means more people on the system, more organs being donated.[/QUOTE] More people on the system is definitely a good thing, but the government essentially saying your own body isn't yours unless you come forth and say so seems a totalitarian. Also what limitations would there be on the system, would what happens to the organs of a minor be the parents choice?

[QUOTE=kebab52;34430989]More people on the system is definitely a good thing, but the government essentially saying your own body isn't yours unless you come forth and say so seems a totalitarian.[/quote] So as long as there is no test (i.e. no requirement to have a disease or religious views, you can just opt-out at personal discretion) to opt-out, I don't see it as totalitarian at all. [QUOTE=kebab52;34430989]Also what limitations would there be on the system, would what happens to the organs of a minor be the parents choice?[/QUOTE] Of course, as are almost all rights / choices under control of a guardian, until 18, at least in Australia.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;34431043]So as long as there is no test (i.e. no requirement to have a disease or religious views, you can just opt-out at personal discretion) to opt-out, I don't see it as totalitarian at all. Of course, as are almost all rights / choices under control of a guardian, until 18, at least in Australia.[/QUOTE] I can see the benefits of it, something about just doesn't sit right with me. But hey, maybe that's just me.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;34430476]I don't like the thought of helping a random stranger[/QUOTE] that's a pretty bad opinion to have. and i know that opinions are all relative and whatnot but seriously, that's not very good. i'm pretty sure if it came down to it and you needed a transplant you would happily be on the list, waiting for a random stranger to help you out.

[QUOTE=Autumn;34431134]that's a pretty bad opinion to have. and i know that opinions are all relative and whatnot but seriously, that's not very good. i'm pretty sure if it came down to it and you needed a transplant you would happily be on the list, waiting for a random stranger to help you out.[/QUOTE] Autumn can I have your pancreas if you die under mysterious circumstances totally not related to me?

I don't give a shit what happens to my body after I die. If my organs save somebody then great; no point in burying perfectly good organs under six feet of dirt. Friend and family won't remember me for my body. So having my body gutted after I die doesn't affect people's memories of me. Should it be mandatory though? Yeah, I don't see a problem with it. However, I suppose they could do something similar to what they do now and let people sign up for it, and those people would be preferred. If there is a shortage of organs they might take someone's who didn't sign up. I think it would be obvious that if we took everyone's organs after death we'd have more than we could use.

[QUOTE=1chains1;34431359]Autumn can I have your pancreas if you die under mysterious circumstances totally not related to me?[/QUOTE] sure! if it comes to it, can i have your heart if you die under mysterious circumstances totally not related to me?

[QUOTE=Autumn;34431386]sure! if it comes to it, can i have your heart if you die under mysterious circumstances totally not related to me?[/QUOTE] No problem dude!

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;34431365]I think it would be obvious that if we took everyone's organs after death we'd have more than we could use.[/QUOTE] i'm not so sure. the pretty major problem is that not everybody's organs are compatible with each other. then you've got transport of the organ if there is a donor match, you've got to ensure the patient is ready to accept the organ, then there's the surgery and aftermath hoping it doesn't get rejected etc. it's not as simple as "since people are always dying, if organ 'donation' was mandatory we'd have more than enough organs to go around!"

[QUOTE=DogGunn;34429783]Their belongings might contain some value to the family, and thus you wouldn't take it, however, organs do not necessarily have a value to family. In most cases, the family won't need the organs, but another person may.[/QUOTE] The body might have value to the family. I would be pretty fucking pissed if one cut my dead wife to take away "parts" of her as if she always was nothing but a machine filled with useful pieces, without her express permission I intend. The legislation is fine as it is. If something has to be done right now, that would be more... "advertising" around organ donation.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;34431365]I don't give a shit what happens to my body after I die. If my organs save somebody then great; no point in burying perfectly good organs under six feet of dirt. Friend and family won't remember me for my body. So having my body gutted after I die doesn't affect people's memories of me. Should it be mandatory though? Yeah, I don't see a problem with it. However, I suppose they could do something similar to what they do now and let people sign up for it, and those people would be preferred. If there is a shortage of organs they might take someone's who didn't sign up. I think it would be obvious that if we took everyone's organs after death we'd have more than we could use.[/QUOTE] why should it be mandatory? What about the people who do have a problem with it? Some people would never want their organs remove, and many times it is against their religion. I suggest an opt-in/opt-out. Before you die, you must decide whether you want to be a donator, and put it in your will or whatever. If you did not choose yet, it's your family's choice.

[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;34431693]The body might have value to the family. I would be pretty fucking pissed if one cut my dead wife to take away "parts" of her as if she always was nothing but a machine filled with useful pieces, without her express permission I intend. The legislation is fine as it is. If something has to be done right now, that would be more... "advertising" around organ donation.[/QUOTE] It will happen either way, you just won't notice because they piece her back together and sow her up. [editline]28th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;34431778]why should it be mandatory? What about the people who do have a problem with it? Some people would never want their organs remove, and many times it is against their religion. I suggest an opt-in/opt-out. Before you die, you must decide whether you want to be a donator, and put it in your will or whatever. If you did not choose yet, it's your family's choice.[/QUOTE] I think most of us mean mandatory as in opt-out, as in. It is mandatory until you opt-out.

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;34431778]why should it be mandatory? What about the people who do have a problem with it? Some people would never want their organs remove, and many times it is against their religion. I suggest an opt-in/opt-out. Before you die, you must decide whether you want to be a donator, and put it in your will or whatever. If you did not choose yet, it's your family's choice.[/QUOTE] Why would you care if your organs were removed. You'd be dead. And I am not my body. I am my consciousness, and my body is merely a tool of my conscious. Once I am dead, my body is a pile of flesh, and it's certainly not me. The people who oppose it because of their religion are delusional. There isn't life after death, and even if there was your physical body isn't part of it. And since when did God disallow people from saving somebody else's life?

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;34432240]Why would you care if your organs were removed. You'd be dead. And I am not my body. I am my consciousness, and my body is merely a tool of my conscious. Once I am dead, my body is a pile of flesh, and it's certainly not me. The people who oppose it because of their religion are delusional. There isn't life after death, and even if there was your physical body isn't part of it. And since when did God disallow people from saving somebody else's life?[/QUOTE] I personally do not care. But some people do. And since people have the right to decide what happens with their property after death, of course they would be able to choose what happens to their body. And just because religious people are delusional, should we violate their believes? should we outlaw religion, just because they are delusional?

As selfish as it is and even though it makes me sound ignorant it's just an opinion that I want my body to stay how it was when I died. It's just that though, an opinion. I have an issue with the thought of using someone else's organs to keep myself or others alive. It's nothing more than just what I think is the correct way. I don't see what your trying to do by saying i'm selfish? Convince me of something? I know that helping others is a generous thing to do. I know it is very bad to say "Oh, well it's a stranger so they have no use to me so I won't help them." If I don't help a stranger, someone else will. Stop breathing and eating because you'll die eventually? Your acting like my logic is going to doom the world. I'm not applying it to other things. I'm applying it to this subject. I'm sorry if I offend you for not being the kindest person ever to exist. If you help someone who needs an organ donation, good for you! Don't try to tell me what I should and shouldn't have done to my dead body.

Making organ donation mandatory and the default is just the dumbest thing I've heard. By default, your body will be harvested when your dead because you automatically have to opt in? That is just silly. I am going to be buried the way I came into this world pure and simple. I am not going to be harvested. Religious reasons, "stupid sentimental reasons", whatever. I am not going to offer my organs for donation, nor my tissue. Deal with it. To make it so your automatically registered to donate is just stupid. To make it so you have to go tell people you want to not be cut open when you die is just stupid. The current system is fine as is, no need to change.

[QUOTE=Gundevil;34432837]Making organ donation mandatory and the default is just the dumbest thing I've heard. By default, your body will be harvested when your dead because you automatically have to opt in? That is just silly. I am going to be buried the way I came into this world pure and simple. I am not going to be harvested. Religious reasons, "stupid sentimental reasons", whatever. I am not going to offer my organs for donation, nor my tissue. Deal with it. To make it so your automatically registered to donate is just stupid. To make it so you have to go tell people you want to not be cut open when you die is just stupid. The current system is fine as is, no need to change.[/QUOTE] Newsflash, you're going to be cut open when you die either way.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;34433054]Newsflash, you're going to be cut open when you die either way.[/QUOTE] Unless you opt out of an autopsy.

i don't know why so many of you seem to think that *everybody* gets an autopsy when they die, regardless of the manner in which you died. no they don't, and whilst autopsies can be requested by the family if there wasn't already one scheduled because of uncertainty surrounding their death, they do not happen to every single person that dies. [url]http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=77553[/url] [url]http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Autopsy.html#b[/url] [url]http://answers.webmd.com/answers/648574/Who-determines-whether-someone-gets-an[/url]