• What Even Matters Anymore - SNL
    127 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073677]They didn't even think once about my feelings, about me as a fellow citizen, even as a fellow human being. What empathy can I show for those who afforded me none for my entire life.[/QUOTE] Maybe by not being sociopath and actively admitting you want to harm unrelated people because some others made you upset dude. Get counseling or something, seriously. That mindset is incredibly unhealthy, trust me.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;53073678]But those are just some people you met. This is on a national scale, a worldwide scale.[/QUOTE] This was an entire community, this is almost every single television program I watch, this is the majority of political discourse on this very site in some instances. My experience of these people was more far reaching than my doorstep or even my local public school. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073690]Maybe by not being sociopath and actively admitting you want to harm unrelated people because some others made you [B]upset[/B] dude. Get counseling or something, seriously. That mindset is incredibly unhealthy, trust me.[/QUOTE] Upset? They actively tried to dehumanize me. They said I wasn't a person. They said my entire race should be purged from the planet. This isn't a case of beating someone in a debate or being told I was wrong it was being told everyday how worthless and inherently awful I was as a person. To me, that is the legacy of the political left. I saw it on it's home turf and I saw what it's true face was. You can try to convince me otherwise but almost 2 decades of vitriol was enough to steel my resolve.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073692] Upset? They actively tried to dehumanize me. They said I wasn't a person. They said my entire race should be purged from the planet.[/QUOTE] Sucks to hear but that doesn't change a thing that I just said. [editline]22nd January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073692]You can try to convince me otherwise but almost 2 decades of vitriol was enough to steel my resolve.[/QUOTE] So you allowed abuse to give you a shell to hide behind, and when confronted with beliefs that are different from your own, you lash out and proceed to blame entire sections of the populace who never even knew you, and probably wouldn't care either way. You are perpetuating the exact same things they did, and this isn't some Ghandi quoting crap, it's called the cycle of abuse. You are openly admitting that you're fine with falling into it, and idk if its worth getting you out of considering how angry you are when people point that out.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073692]this is the majority of political discourse on this very site in some instances.[/QUOTE] Out of curiosity, was this before or during/after the Trump/Brexit weirdness that started around 2015/2016? Outside of the stories about the crazies/regressive left you sometimes hear, I wouldn't think that would be the norm unless there was a touchy issue, such as for example, someone making a racist comment during the Black Lives Matter discussions and being accused of bigotry. EDIT: I'm sorry that you encountered people who dehumanized you, but I would not take it to heart as much as you did. Just as there are stereotypical instances of white, cisgendered, Christian, heterosexual males being rapists or other nonsense from the regressive left, the far right has also previously perpetuated some similar stereotypes about LGBT, race, etc. I think this is less of a partisan left vs right issue and more of a general issue with non-civil discourse. I would also say that some of those examples should have not been taken to heart, such as the Simpson's jokes. I'm not going to even try to pretend to defend what your professors said as that is awful if true, but real life is more nuanced. Zilla's post below me makes a good point: [QUOTE]The shit on TV is largely jokes, people working out their frustrations through their work. I watched the colbert report growing up and I don't think all republicans should curl up and die.[/QUOTE] Sometimes, people just voice their frustrations as Zilla said, but sometimes, there can be legitimately tasteless messages expressed through as well. I think it would help to try and parse what is genuinely discriminatory towards groups of people versus what is just satire or parody ([I]without[/I] undertones or other indications of those viewpoints being genuinely held). As I said above, I'm not going to pretend the Left is the paragon of excellence. There have been tons of stories of the regressive left acting childish, trying to stifle discussion or censor opposing viewpoints, acting snooty and condescending, etc. But, again, I would recommend trying to parse what legitimately has offensive undertones versus what is just satire (such as the shows you mentioned).
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073692]This was an entire community, this is almost every single television program I watch, this is the majority of political discourse on this very site in some instances. My experience of these people was more far reaching than my doorstep or even my local public school. Upset? They actively tried to dehumanize me. They said I wasn't a person. They said my entire race should be purged from the planet.[/QUOTE] I don't know where you're going that you've heard that the white race should be purged from the earth but that's not even CLOSE to the majority opinion, even if you hear it more often than you should. It would probably drive me nuts if everything I enjoyed watching had a conservative bent but I don't think the hatred for white men is anywhere near as violently pervasive as you think. On the internet it can feel that way, I'm sure that sentiment worse in California, but people generally aren't that passionate and/or nuts. The shit on TV is largely jokes, people working out their frustrations through their work. I watched the colbert report growing up and I don't think all republicans should curl up and die.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073701] You are perpetuating the exact same things they did, and this isn't some Ghandi quoting crap, it's called the cycle of abuse. You are openly admitting that you're fine with falling into it, and idk if its worth getting you out of considering how angry you are when people point that out.[/QUOTE] Again, I fully admit I have become angry and bitter, I'm not hiding that. I want those people, those institutions to admit their wrongdoing as well, but they never will. [QUOTE=Simplemac3;53073715][B]I don't know where you're going that you've heard that the white race should be purged from the earth[/B] but that's not even CLOSE to the majority opinion, even if you hear it more often than you should. It would probably drive me nuts if everything I enjoyed watching had a conservative bent but I don't think the hatred for white men is anywhere near as violently pervasive as you think. On the internet it can feel that way, I'm sure that sentiment worse in California, but people generally aren't that passionate and/or nuts. The shit on TV is largely jokes, people working out their frustrations through their work. I watched the colbert report growing up and I don't think all republicans should curl up and die.[/QUOTE] Again, I have had this said to me by not only peers but professors, professionals beloved by the students. I was forcibly removed from a lecture by campus police because she was telling students Trump would bring about right wing death squads to trawl minority neighborhoods and I had the audacity to say that was unlikely. If only you knew how bad things really were there.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073661]You try being hated by everyone you know for almost 2 decades for no reason without coming out a little spiteful and bitter and wanting some modicum of payback.[/QUOTE] How do you know that everyone hated you? Even if they did dislike you, how do you know that it was for "no reason"? You just admitted that you've been taking delight in deliberately hurting other people. That's a pretty good reason for others to you know, not be nice to you. I'm just some random asshole on the internet. I have no stake in your life. I don't particularly care or know anything about you (though I too was raised on the Pythons, in particular Gilliam's work). Based on what you've posted here though, I honestly don't think you're looking at your past or current experiences in a rational light. You're fixated on your perceived victim-hood, and using those perceived slights as justification to treat others terribly. I mean for fucks sake mate you're citing Ned Flanders as an assault on your christian identity, and then using that as part of your justification for wanting to hurt other people. Am I as a scientist supposed to be up in arms because Professor Frink is depicted as crazy? Am I supposed to get butthurt because of the way the nerds are depicted in the Big Bang Theory? Or the way Rick Sanchez is made out to be a drunken asshole?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073716]Again, I fully admit I have become angry and bitter, I'm not hiding that. I want those people, those institutions to admit their wrongdoing as well, but they never will.[/QUOTE] So you are admitting that you just want to do what they did to other people. It's a start. Seek therapy. This is not some dickish post, this is honest to god advice. This sort of festering hatred will end up destroying you before you know it.
[QUOTE=1legmidget;53073719]How do you know that everyone hated you? Even if they did dislike you, how do you know that it was for "no reason"? [B]You just admitted that you've been taking delight in deliberately hurting other people.[/B] That's a pretty good reason for others to you know, not be nice to you. [/QUOTE] This is only a recent development, I wasn't always like this. The interactions I'm talking about happened long before I started being thinking this way. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073726]So you are admitting that you just want to do what they did to other people. It's a start. Seek therapy. This is not some dickish post, this is honest to god advice. This sort of festering hatred will end up destroying you before you know it.[/QUOTE] I took it one step better, I moved out of California. Leftward leaning people here are much better. I feel very calm compared to back home, I sleep better.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073728]This is only a recent development, I wasn't always like this. The interactions I'm talking about happened long before I started being thinking this way.[/QUOTE] And so you let them dig into you like needles. That is just the first step to becoming hateful. I know it's hard to just "suck it up" and leave it behind you, and it's hard because you can't ever really ignore what people did to you. It's horrid. I've seen the effects of longterm abuse, and that's what it is, and it never just "goes away". But you [I]cannot[/I] use it as a crutch to go out of your way and show how much you're willing to spite people. It's an incredibly dangerous mindset that will not help you, but instead further isolate you. I seriously hope you understand that.
Dude, speaking objectively, even if there are crazy people out there that you had to deal with in your life, they don't speak for everyone. They don't. Just because Family Guy and The Simpsons disagree with and are making fun of you doesn't mean they're personally attacking you, it just means that the creators of those shows [I]disagree with you.[/I] I'm sorry if you really had to deal with shit as bad as you say, but enjoying the honest to god suffering of people completely unrelated because you had to deal with some shit is irrational madness. Like the guy above said, seek therapy if you can afford it.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073728] I took it one step better, I moved out of California. [/QUOTE] That's not taking a "step better". That's running away from your problems.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073735]And so you let them dig into you like needles. That is just the first step to becoming hateful. I know it's hard to just "suck it up" and leave it behind you, and it's hard because you can't ever really ignore what people did to you. It's horrid. I've seen the effects of longterm abuse, and that's what it is, and it never just "goes away". But you [I]cannot[/I] use it as a crutch to go out of your way and show how much you're willing to spite people. It's an incredibly dangerous mindset that will not help you, but instead further isolate you. I seriously hope you understand that.[/QUOTE] I completely agree. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073740]That's not taking a "step better". That's running away from your problems.[/QUOTE] I don't want to live with people who despise my existence.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073740]That's not taking a "step better". That's running away from your problems.[/QUOTE] Well, we don't know exactly why he moved or where he moved or how bad it actually was or what his circumstances are, so... I'm not willing to say that.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53073740]That's not taking a "step better". That's running away from your problems.[/QUOTE] Actually, I would disagree; sometimes, relocation can genuinely help. But, it is important to make sure that you don't carry your problems with you as well. I would agree that Johnny made the right call moving out in that case.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073743] I don't want to live with people who despise my existence.[/QUOTE] I understand that, but that doesn't change what I said. Running away and shutting yourself off won't make it go away. I know I'm just some schmuck on the internet, but please understand that distancing yourself from it won't help it. At some point, and it does for almost everyone, it will come back. And when it does, you won't know what to do because you've been telling yourself that it's far away and can't hurt you, and you took no steps to properly handle it when it comes.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073743]I don't want to live with people who despise my existence.[/QUOTE] Hopefully, you also understand that there are other people who are on the opposite side, right now, of the statement you've just made because you'd like them to be harmed. Being not OK with people being harmed is a good first step towards ensuring that the group of people who despise your existence doesn't continue to grow and move with you -- because you are the source of at least some of that problem when you're openly stating you're OK with violence being committed on them. If you don't want your problems to follow you, it's probably best to stop assuming the people you meet now are exactly the people you met then - and that those people you met then represent 'everyone you'd ever meet'. You recognize that you dislike caricatures but I'm not sure you recognize that you're making people into caricatures as well to justify your dislike of them -- which will only make them dislike you.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;53073748]Well, we don't know exactly why he moved or where he moved or how bad it actually was or what his circumstances are, so... I'm not willing to say that.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=BlindSniper17;53073750]Actually, I would disagree; sometimes, relocation can genuinely help. But, it is important to make sure that you don't carry your problems with you as well. I would agree that Johnny made the right call moving out in that case.[/QUOTE] I moved to Kansas, for both political and economic reasons, the latter of which I've talked at great length about here. My parents have noted a marked difference in my attitude and general disposition since I moved. I have never been so happy. [QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53073754]because you are the source of at least some of that problem when you're openly stating you're OK with [B]violence[/B] being committed on them.[/QUOTE] Wait, when did I condone violence?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073755]I moved to Kansas, for both political and economic reasons, the latter of which I've talked at great length about here. My parents have noted a marked difference in my attitude and general disposition since I moved.[/QUOTE] I hope it works out for you and you don't just end up isolating yourself in an ideological bubble of people who agree with you, either.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;53073760]I hope it works out for you and you don't just end up isolating yourself in an ideological bubble of people who agree with you, either.[/QUOTE] In not even 9 months, in a town of ~25,000, I have seen more political diversity exhibited by the locals than all my years amongst the 4 million of L.A. You could not imagine the broad range of ideologies in a small town, perhaps because people are not so closely packed together they don't feel they need to go along with the status quo.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073755]Wait, when did I condone violence?[/QUOTE] What was posted: [quote]Your reasoning for supporting Trump essentially boils down into a desire to hurt other people. That's flat out evil man. That's destructive and spiteful.[/quote] Your response: [quote]You try being hated by everyone you know for almost 2 decades for no reason without coming out a little spiteful and bitter and wanting some modicum of payback. I fully admit being spiteful, I fully admit wanting revenge.[/quote] It reads to me that you agree that you have that desire because you are spiteful and want revenge and payback. Note that not all violence involves fists or guns; sometimes it involves putting people in painful economic situations to 'punish them' and so forth. The primary problem with that being that you're going to hurt a lot more people than your 'targets' when you decide to commit your revenge on a national, policy-level, scale.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53073768]What was posted: Your response: It reads to me that you agree that you have that desire because you are spiteful and want revenge and payback. Note that not all violence involves fists or guns; sometimes it involves putting people in painful economic situations to 'punish them' and so forth.[/QUOTE] I'm bitter and angry but the revenge I want is not material or to put anyone in harms way either though riot or destitution. I'd take an apology. I want a "maybe we were wrong for doing this, sorry." I want some reconciliation, some stepping down from the pedestal.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073775]I'm bitter and angry but the revenge I want is not material or to put anyone in harms way either though riot or destitution. I'd take an apology. I want a "maybe we were wrong for doing this."[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone but the particular people who were responsible for saying/doing what they did to you could even make that apology. Since you no longer even live in that area, I don't think you're ever going to get said apology. [quote]I want some reconciliation, some stepping down from the pedestal.[/quote] And from whom do you want that? The entire nation -- or the specific people who wronged you?
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53073779]I don't think anyone but the particular people who were responsible for saying/doing what they did to you could even make that apology. Since you no longer even live in that area, I don't think you're ever going to get said apology. And from whom do you want that? The entire nation -- or the specific people who wronged you?[/QUOTE] When hatred is propagated through institutions and media, who can I demand an apology from? I cannot ask a culture to apologize for it's malice, that's nonsense. The faceless monolith of people who dehumanized me cannot later redress my gripes because that would require a great mountain of people to collectively admit they were wrong and if you think personal pride is hard to break try collective righteousness. There is nothing I can do but move on and let that Sodom to the West go on while I make my peace here with a friendlier folk.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073787]When hatred is propagated through institutions and media, who can I demand an apology from?[/QUOTE] It sounds less like you even want an apology and more that you're protecting yourself from getting over what happened to you. In fact it sounds like you'd rather see people suffer than end your own suffering. The problem being that even if you carry out the revenge you'd like on people you don't know: It won't satisfy you. It'll only feel empty and hollow - it will only make you feel bad about your actions - because you'll know, deep down, that those people had nothing to do with what happened to you. You trying to make other people suffer will only end in your suffering increasing. You're attempting to radicalize yourself into thinking that the actions of those few people belong to a large group of people who are removed from them - all in order to keep the hatred in your heart strong rather than letting it die, as it should. You are the one who was mad when you were called a rapist because you were white, no? Now you are doing the precise same thing to others; it will only end in them resenting you. You are only increasing the amount of hatred, which will only increase the amount of suffering, which will only increase the amount you suffer. It's entirely nonproductive.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073787]When hatred is propagated through institutions and media, who can I demand an apology from? I cannot ask a culture to apologize for it's malice, that's nonsense.[/QUOTE] I don't think Matt Groening or Seth McFarlane intended for you to be fucked with by people literally so extreme as to want white people to die. I don't think most of political comedy has that intent, that's just where people take it. We have to judge people on the individual, it's the only thing that makes sense. The only thing that's sane. Everyone will take a culture differently, every person in a culture will act differently.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53073793]all in order to keep the hatred in your heart strong rather than letting it die, as it should. [/QUOTE] I actually moved so that it could die, that I could get on with my life, pursue things I want, pursue the things that would have got me ridiculed back home.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073799]I actually moved so that it could die, that I could get on with my life, pursue things I want.[/QUOTE] Despite you stating this, you have not only retained but escalated that hatred and are expanding the scope of people who you believe 'have wronged you' to encompass millions and millions of people. It sounds less like you want to get on with your life and more like you want to disrupt the lives of others - and use this as your justification to do so.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53073801]Despite you stating this, you have not only retained but escalated that hatred and are expanding the scope of people who you believe 'have wronged you' to encompass millions and millions of people. It sounds less like you want to get on with your life and more like you want to disrupt the lives of others - and use this as your justification to do so.[/QUOTE] If you knew me before I left you'd think I was a totally different person. I have done nothing but thrive and become more and more even keeled since my move.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53073787]When hatred is propagated through institutions and media, who can I demand an apology from?[/QUOTE] That kind of goes back to what I was saying shortly ago; it helps to try and parse what has undertones of genuine hatred, and what is just parody/satire (without the genuine undertones). Without trying to deflect to the "both sides" card, people of different race, gender, religion, etc, have been legitimately fucked over in the past. As a quick intermission, I'm not ignoring/dismissing your professor(s) or anyone else who said that all white men are rapists/etc. That is idiocy and bigotry too. But, back to what my point was -- people who had a bad run in the past have probably built up similar feelings. I'm not black, but for example, if you look at the BLM protests - some of those similar feelings of caged-up animosity might have been felt by them too, even in the face of jeering and having people crack jokes at why they just wanted to smash stuff or riot even if a black cop killed a black (legitimate) criminal if all it did was perpetuate stereotypes. Again, just to make sure it's clear that I am not deflecting or hand waving your issues away - it sounds like you were surrounded by toxic individuals too. It's easier to point at a specific target to let out all of your hate towards (and I'm not referring just to you but your professors, for example). It can be a specific person, group of people, a nebulous gathering of people, etc. The pendulum seems to swing both ways at various points, with minorities, people of different sexuality, etc, having to fight for equal rights or being told that they are worthless, or to the other extreme where poor/lower class white people are all presumed to be racists, rapists, etc. I think it's a problem with civil discourse in general, and the nature of the Internet/Television promotes an economy of attention where it's always the extreme outliers that get attention and reinforce negative views. You mentioned that a lot of your experiences happened in real life, but I would think that some of that could potentially be exacerbated by people being "pattern-seeking" creatures. Life is complicated, and we try to find patterns to rationalize what we can't always control. I would surmise that you are the product of what is not a Leftist Environment, but an Abusive and Anti-Intellectual Environment. As others said, therapy might be a good place to start, as was your relocation.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.