At the very beginning of the video, someone she did not know entered her home to pregame with everyone; there was no hint of her asking any questions, stopping the guy at the door and at least asking his name before allowing him entry. The whole event in the video could have been avoided with a simple question: "Who are you, and why are you coming into my house?"
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40345347]You're right! It sure is a good thing when you stop someone from getting raped, though. (actually I think the bartender has a legal obligation here tbh)[/QUOTE]
Sure, and it's also good to stop yourself from getting hurt no? Ie not putting yourself in a dangerous situation at all?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40345347]Yeah she could have not gotten drunk, so what? [/QUOTE]
SO THAT. Until there are people who'll try to take advantage of you when you're drunk you've gotta have that in mind and act accordingly. Control your drinking and if you can't then drink with people you trust.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40345347]I guess she's never allowed to get drunk because some rapist might rape her.
No. Just no.[/QUOTE]
Why the stupid strawman? I can do that too:
"I guess there is no reason not to accept drinks from strangers and get blacked out drunk with strangers. Nothing bad is gonna happen and if it does it's not your fault, you couldn't have done anything to avoid that.
No. Just no."
Educating people prior to a situation is different than telling them "YOU COULD HAVE NOT GOT RAPED IF YOU DIDNT X". Bringing these things up post-crime is stupid, pointless victim blaming that accomplishes nothing.
It is absolutely not your fault if you get raped!
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ultralast;40345466]At the very beginning of the video, someone she did not know entered her home to pregame with everyone; there was no hint of her asking any questions, stopping the guy at the door and at least asking his name before allowing him entry. The whole event in the video could have been avoided with a simple question: "Who are you, and why are you coming into my house?"[/QUOTE]
It looked like he was the dude in front's friend, I don't see how that would have stopped anything. Would he have said, "hey dude im gonna try and rape someone tonight LOL can I come in??"
What an ugly cunt
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Dumb / trolling" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40345598]Educating people prior to a situation is different than telling them "YOU COULD HAVE NOT GOT RAPED IF YOU DIDNT X". Bringing these things up post-crime is stupid, pointless victim blaming that accomplishes nothing.[/QUOTE]
This is the stupidest thing I've read all month.
How the hell can you learn on your, or other people's mistakes if you don't do that? How can you educate people if you won't use the knowledge you got from other people doing something wrong in the past in the same situation?
What's that? Walking through dark alleys in poor neighborhood during the night significantly increases the chances of getting mugged? We can't talk about choosing the route, that was before the mugging, and it would be pointless victim blaming. It's absolutely not your fault if you get mugged when walking through dark alleys even though you could have easily avoided them. It doesn't make sense. There are situations that you should avoid because they are dangerous. That includes accepting drinks from strangers and getting blacked out drunk with people you don't fully trust.
Besides educating who? The actress? What are you talking about? Everybody should be taught responsibility and that getting drunk with strangers or accepting drinks from strangers is dangerous and you shouldn't do that. Why do you oppose this?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40345598]It is absolutely not your fault if you get raped![/QUOTE]
It is absolutely your fault for putting yourself in a situation when it's likely to happen though, well unless you were forced to get drunk with people you don't trust.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40345822]It is absolutely your fault for putting yourself in a situation when it's likely to happen though.[/QUOTE]
I can't see how you are justifying this at all. I want to believe you are being sarcastic. Yes she may have had lots of drinks, but she was also definitely not enjoying what the guy was doing to her, and the guy doing it to her knew it.
[QUOTE=FreddiRox!;40345943]I can't see how you are justifying this at all. I want to believe you are being sarcastic. Yes she may have had lots of drinks, but she was also definitely not enjoying what the guy was doing to her, and the guy doing it to her knew it.[/QUOTE]
Justifying what? I'm not justifying anything. I'm not excusing anyone. What are you talking about?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40344894]How about not accepting drinks from random people? How about giving yourself a limit of drinks you're gonna drink that night? Or if you can't limit yourself at all when drinking (or you intend to get smashed) then do it with people you trust. Otherwise you're putting yourself in danger. How hard is it to comprehend?[/QUOTE]
You [B]are[/B] aware of the fact that that's [I]exactly[/I] what she fucking did, right? She went with a group of friends, including her best friend. She didn't accept drinks from a random person, she accepted drinks from someone with her group of friends. It seems from her reaction to first seeing him that she doesn't know him too well, but it seems that other people in the group [I]do[/I] know him, so he's basically a friend of a friend. She doesn't know him too well, but he's with her group of friends, so he must be trustworthy, right? And someone else already explained that you don't exactly [I]plan[/I] on getting blackout drunk, it often happens because even though you may have set a limit when sober, your inhibitions are lowered when drunk. "Well why didn't she bring a friend to watch over her?" [I]She fucking [B]did[/B][/I].
Seriously, she's doing exactly what you're suggesting: going with a group of friends, not taking drinks from people outside her group of friends, bringing a responsible person to watch over her. And yet, in one possibility, she gets raped anyway. So, did she mess up by deciding to drink at all and by not magically knowing that someone in her group of friends was a rapist? Well, I guess there's one more thing she could do, she could have a flatmate to watch over her at her apartment too if she comes back with anyone. [I]OH WAIT SHE DID THAT TOO.[/I]
She could also go to a bar with respectable bouncers and bartenders who will make sure their patrons aren't taken advantage of. [B]OH WAIT. SHE DID THAT TOO.[/B]
Seriously, she's done everything you could tell her to except for be psychic or never drink ever. All you're doing is looking for some excuse to blame the girl for what happened, possibly out of some belief of "well bad things don't happen to good people, there must be some karma in this". Even when she does the things you tell her to do in order to be safe, once they fail anyway you [I]ignore that she did them in order to blame her.[/I]
Please don't ever hang around rape victims.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40345965]Justifying what? I'm not justifying anything. I'm not excusing anyone. What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]
Justifying was the wrong word sorry. I meant blaming I think.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]You [B]are[/B] aware of the fact that that's [I]exactly[/I] what she fucking did, right? She went with a group of friends, including her best friend. She didn't accept drinks from a random person, she accepted drinks from someone with her group of friends. It seems from her reaction to first seeing him that she doesn't know him too well, but it seems that other people in the group [I]do[/I] know him, so he's basically a friend of a friend. She doesn't know him too well, but he's with her group of friends, so he must be trustworthy, right?[/QUOTE]
You're gonna trust a friend of a friend who you met for the first time with your life? No. That's fucking dumb. Why not just go to his place and get high together? I mean what bad could happen? He's a friend of my friend, he must be trustworthy and would never take advantage of me...
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]And someone else already explained that you don't exactly [I]plan[/I] on getting blackout drunk, it often happens because even though you may have set a limit when sober, your inhibitions are lowered when drunk. "Well why didn't she bring a friend to watch over her?" [I]She fucking [B]did[/B][/I].
[/QUOTE]
But she didn't watch over her? What are you talking about? Bringing a friend with you to watch over you who doesn't watch over you is like not bringing the friend at all.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]
Seriously, she's doing exactly what you're suggesting: going with a group of friends, not taking drinks from people outside her group of friends, bringing a responsible person to watch over her. And yet, in one possibility, she gets raped anyway. So, did she mess up by deciding to drink at all and by not magically knowing that someone in her group of friends was a rapist? [/QUOTE]
Magically? A guy who she has met for the first time tries to dance just a little bit too close to her and she tells him to get lost. What the hell could a guy want from a girl in a club? I mean you have to be some sort of magician to figure out that HE WANTS TO BONE HER.
That's one of the issues I have with you people. For you the danger is inconceivable. "magically" my ass.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]Well, I guess there's one more thing she could do, she could have a flatmate to watch over her at her apartment too if she comes back with anyone. [I]OH WAIT SHE DID THAT TOO.[/I]
[/QUOTE]
Same as with the friend. Someone to watch over you who doesn't watch over you.
If they were meant to watch over her, then they would have? So in the first playthrough, they weren't watching over her. I don't know what you're talking about. They were watching over her when they stopped the guy, not in the first playthrough. Were you watching a different vid?
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]
She could also go to a bar with respectable bouncers and bartenders who will make sure their patrons aren't taken advantage of. [B]OH WAIT. SHE DID THAT TOO.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Oh wait they are not respectable and didn't make sure their patrons aren't taken advantage of. Again, what are you talking about? It's only true in the second playtrough.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]
Seriously, she's done everything you could tell her to except for be psychic or never drink ever. All you're doing is looking for some excuse to blame the girl for what happened, possibly out of some belief of "well bad things don't happen to good people, there must be some karma in this".
[/QUOTE]
Stupid assumption/strawman #4437.
And for the 5th time I'm not blaming her for getting raped. I'm blaming her for getting herself in a situation where the risk of that happening is high, because nobody forced her to go to the club and get smashed.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]Even when she does the things you tell her to do in order to be safe, once they fail anyway you [I]ignore that she did them in order to blame her.[/I][/QUOTE]
She didn't fucking do it tho? She drank a lot with a guy who she met for the first time, even though she rejected him a moment ago, at which point she should have realized he's after her bottom, therefore not to be trusted.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40345976]Please don't ever hang around rape victims.[/QUOTE]
Please don't ever watch over people, or anything for that matter, as you seem to think that looking at someone equals to watching over them.
Seriously, all the people you list were not watching over her in the first playthrough. They were in the second one and that's perfectly fine with me. Having a more or less sober friend with you or a flatmate to make sure you don't regret anything is accounting for the risk. I was talking about the first playthrough where no one watched over her. Where no steps were taken to account for the risk of getting smashed to a point where you can't take care of yourself.
[QUOTE=FreddiRox!;40345981]Justifying was the wrong word sorry. I meant blaming I think.[/QUOTE]
Because nobody forced her to get so drunk that she would accept drinks from a guy that she has met for the first time? Who clearly wants to bone her? Who she has rejected once already? Nobody has put her in that state of mind, she did that herself.
[QUOTE=lazugod;40336495]Is the target audience really going to watch an eight-minute slow-paced infomercial?[/QUOTE]
The target audience is the flatmate, the stranger, the friend.
[QUOTE=Tacooo;40344024]What if the girl was fine and everyone was cock blocking him[/QUOTE]
This is a very real concern to a lot of people.
But it was a nice ad, it showed very well how other people should be reacting in this kind of situation.
No fault is on the girl, but that doesn't mean getting very drunk on your own is a good idea - keep your friends tight, and it shouldn't be a problem.
How is this any different than leaving your unlocked car full of expensive items in a poor neighborhood? Both party's are responsible to some degree here. The rapist is still a criminal and should be prosecuted. The woman should take some degree of responsibility and understand that she put herself in a situation that could have been avoided. Clearly the aggressor wasn't forcing anything on her as she was too intoxicated to make the right decision. What the hell happened to self control, both on the rapist and the victim? At what point do you not realize that you're too drunk to make a conscious decision?
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
In a perfect world non of this would ever be an issue as people wouldn't take advantage of each other. But even you guys know that this world isn't full of happy rainbows and perfect people.
Why do you feel the need to blame the victim? Seriously, it accomplishes nothing but make you look like an insensitive person.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40347176]Why do you feel the need to blame the victim? Seriously, it accomplishes nothing but make you look like an insensitive person.[/QUOTE]
I blame her only for not taking enough precautions to account for the risk of get smashed with strangers (doesn't matter that it's a friend's friend). That's all. I'm not blaming her for rape, that's entirely on the scumbag.
You understand? I'm only blaming her for putting herself in a dangerous situation. If the entire thing didn't end up in rape because of some random event, I'd be saying the same thing. It's stupid to get really drunk with strangers if you don't have someone to take care of you. It should be frowned upon, not excused, so that other people don't make the same mistake, because the consequences can be catastrophic.
That's what it's supposed to accomplish. To make people more careful. You guys on the other hand are arguing the other way. To make people more careless, which might result in more people being put in that situation, which might end up horribly. Seriously stop excusing this stort of behavior.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40347176]Why do you feel the need to blame the victim? Seriously, it accomplishes nothing but make you look like an insensitive person.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how you can't see that even a shred of responsibility falls on the victim.
Why do you look both ways before you cross a street?
Things she could have done to avoid getting in that situation:
Be responsible and not get blacked out drunk. No one is forcing the alcohol down your throat, it was your decision to get that drunk in the first place.
If you're for some reason planning to get that drunk, go out with responsible people to look after you that you can trust. Hell you should do that even if you [I]don't[/I] plan on getting very drunk.
I'm not saying the guy who took advantage of her isn't* in the wrong. I'm saying the "victim" shouldn't be treated as if she had no possible way to avoid any of this
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
guys i'm gonna go to the most dangerous gang-invested parts of detroit, leave my car unlocked with money laying all over the seats, and walk away. if i come back and my stuff is gone then i can't be to blame whatsoever right???
strong logic by some people in this thread
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347311]I don't understand how you can't see that even a shred of responsibility falls on the victim.
Why do you look both ways before you cross a street?[/QUOTE]
you look both ways before you cross a street because cars are partly the basis of modern civilization. rape is not.
[QUOTE=Pandamox;40347317]guys i'm gonna go to the most dangerous gang-invested parts of detroit, leave my car unlocked with money laying all over the seats, and walk away. if i come back and my stuff is gone then i can't be to blame whatsoever right???[/QUOTE]
Yes because people should be able to leave their car wherever they want without fearing it will be stolen. :downs:
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]You're gonna trust a friend of a friend who you met for the first time with your life? No. That's fucking dumb. Why not just go to his place and get high together? I mean what bad could happen? He's a friend of my friend, he must be trustworthy and would never take advantage of me...[/quote]
She's not going with him alone until she's already so drunk that she's pretty much out of it. And it seems like the guy is actually a friend of her best friend, too. And hell, just because it seems like she doesn't know him too well doesn't mean that she's never met him before.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]But she didn't watch over her? What are you talking about? Bringing a friend with you to watch over you who doesn't watch over you is like not bringing the friend at all.[/quote]
I seriously had to lie down for a bit when I read this. I'm not even joking. I can barely express my disbelief at this in words alone.
* the point
* the moon
* you
The people in the first and second playthroughs are the [B]same people[/B]. The second playthrough shows that they can act in order to help her. Hell, even in the first playthrough, each of them looks at her with a concerned look on their faces, but each one of them shrugs it off. Your logic here is basically "she went with a friend who would watch over her, but the friend failed to act in order to help her, so she basically didn't bring anyone to watch her, and thus I can blame her for being irresponsible and not bringing anyone to watch over her!" The point of the video isn't that she didn't go with anyone responsible. The point is that she went with responsible people who, in the first playthrough, each failed to act. The point of the video is basically "you're a responsible person, help out when something looks concerning."
However, again, your logic here is "the people she went with to protect her each failed, so that's the same as not going with anyone to protect her at all, and thus I can call her irresponsible even though she did everything I would tell her to do!"
That is just so... I can't even express it in words.
I mean, that's like saying that if a president is moving about with his secret service, and they each by chance happen to not be looking in one certain direction for a moment and someone attacks the president from that direction in that one moment, that "oh, the president went with his secret service but they all failed, so he was basically travelling alone! :downs:"
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Magically? A guy who she has met for the first time tries to dance just a little bit too close to her and she tells him to get lost. What the hell could a guy want from a girl in a club? I mean you have to be some sort of magician to figure out that HE WANTS TO BONE HER.
That's one of the issues I have with you people. For you the danger is inconceivable. "magically" my ass.[/quote]
By the second time he's dancing too close to her, you can tell that she's already pretty out of it and doesn't really know what's going on. Was she supposed to kick him out of the bar when she didn't want to dance with him the first time? Was she supposed to know that a guy she calmly declined to dance with (and who immediately listened to her and left to dance somewhere else instead of trying to argue it) would come back later to manipulate her when she was more drunk? By the time she knew he would come back (read: when he came back, because she's not psychic and he immediately listened to her before) she was already so drunk that she was out of it. Plus, she went with friends who she thought would watch over her, and as we see in the second playthrough, they are perfectly capable of doing so.
Again, she had gone with people who we see are perfectly capable of watching over her when she's drunk too much, but by chance each of them don't. It's not like the first and second playthroughs happen with different people.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Same as with the friend. Someone to watch over you who doesn't watch over you.
If they were meant to watch over her, then they would have? So in the first playthrough, they weren't watching over her. I don't know what you're talking about. They were watching over her when they stopped the guy, not in the first playthrough. Were you watching a different vid?[/quote]
"If they were meant to protect the president, then they would have?" Once more, the people in the first and second playthroughs are [I]the same people[/I]. It's not like in the first playthrough she went with complete strangers and the second she went with friends. She went with friends both times.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Oh wait they are not respectable and didn't make sure their patrons aren't taken advantage of. Again, what are you talking about? It's only true in the second playtrough.[/quote]
Again: Same. People.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Stupid assumption/strawman #4437.
And for the 5th time I'm not blaming her for getting raped. I'm blaming her for getting herself in a situation where the risk of that happening is high, because nobody forced her to go to the club and get smashed.[/quote]
"I'm not blaming her for getting raped, I'm blaming her for getting herself into a situation where she would be raped and not having any safety measures. Even though she did have safety measures."
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]She didn't fucking do it tho? She drank a lot with a guy who she met for the first time, even though she rejected him a moment ago, at which point she should have realized he's after her bottom, therefore not to be trusted.[/quote]
I've gone over this already. She was drinking with friends, not just the one guy. By the time he's getting creepily close to her and not leaving her alone, she's out of it.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Please don't ever watch over people, or anything for that matter, as you seem to think that looking at someone equals to watching over them.[/quote]
This has got to be the sorriest excuse at a comeback that I have ever seen.
"You're a rape apologist who ignores what victims did to keep themselves safe because you have the logic of 'well if she tried to stay safe, then she would've stayed safe! :downs:', completely ignoring the fact that sometimes safety measures fail."
"Yeah, well, you... you don't know how to babysit. So there."
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]Seriously, all the people you list were not watching over her in the first playthrough. They were in the second one and that's perfectly fine with me. Having a more or less sober friend with you or a flatmate to make sure you don't regret anything is accounting for the risk. I was talking about the first playthrough where no one watched over her. Where no steps were taken to account for the risk of getting smashed to a point where you can't take care of yourself.[/quote]
Once. More. The people are the same both times. She went with people who she thought would watch over her, and we see that they are perfectly capable of doing so. She did account for the risk, but by chance her safety measures each failed.
Seriously, how can you say "well she went with her responsible best friend, so that's accounting for the risk, but if the friend somehow fails to watch over her then she has [I]retroactively[/I] not accounted for the risk."
You're retroactively deciding whether or not she took steps to protect herself based on whether those steps worked or not. Logic doesn't work that way.
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347311]I don't understand how you can't see that even a shred of responsibility falls on the victim.
Why do you look both ways before you cross a street?[/QUOTE]
This is fucking stupid logic. You teach children to look both ways to prevent shit, but if you cross at a crosswalk while you have the right of way and you don't look both ways and get hit it's still not your fault even if you could have prevented it. Would you tell someone who got hit by a car at a crosswalk after they're signaled to go, "you fucking dumbass you should've looked both ways!!"
If so, you're an asshole and yes this is the same fucking thing.
[quote]1 : the quality or state of being responsible: as a : moral, legal, or mental accountability[/quote]
That's what responsibility means. You are saying she should be held accountable [b]FOR GETTING RAPED[/b].
The woman in the OP video has absolutely no responsibility for the actions taken against her.
PLEASE stop blaming the victim.
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
Yes, we should teach people prevention tactics. No, we should not tell them how it's their fault if anything happens (because it's not, and it never is).
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40346257]You're gonna trust a friend of a friend who you met for the first time with your life? No. That's fucking dumb[/QUOTE]
um yes? this is exactly the logic normal people use. if you have a friend who is close and trustworthy, it's only safe to assume that they keep good company. fuck who even cares about that - you could know someone for years and years and never know that they have the propensity to rape someone
[quote]But she didn't watch over her? What are you talking about? Bringing a friend with you to watch over you who doesn't watch over you is like not bringing the friend at all.[/quote]
wtf do you expect? have you ever been to a nightclub? you go out with friends and expect them to have your back. you don't go out and say to your friend "please watch out for me and make sure i don't get raped"
[quote]Magically? A guy who she has met for the first time tries to dance just a little bit too close to her and she tells him to get lost. What the hell could a guy want from a girl in a club? I mean you have to be some sort of magician to figure out that HE WANTS TO BONE HER.[/quote]
um you can grind and pull someone in the club without necessarily meaning you want to have sex that night right there and then. you realise this is a possibility right? you can't seriously be saying that you can't dance and kiss people on a night out and then be surprised to be raped
[quote]That's one of the issues I have with you people. For you the danger is inconceivable. "magically" my ass.[/quote]
in the situation shown in this video the danger is pretty inconceivable yes. no right-minded person would have massive rape alarm bells ringing until the very late stages of the night (where she was absolutely hammered and the guy was being really leery and not letting up despite this being obvious)
[quote]I'm blaming her for getting herself in a situation where the risk of that happening is high, because nobody forced her to go to the club and get smashed.[/quote]
but everyone goes to clubs and gets smashed on a daily basis? i don't know a single person who hasn't done this and i also don't know a single person who has been raped. she's probably in that majority too; those who know lots of people who drink like that, but have never been raped and know no one who has been raped. there was no reason for her to take it easy or be scared that night. she was having no worse of a 'good time' than i've seen any of my friends do, or have done myself. please go around a nightclub on any given night of the week and tell me the entire place isn't filled with people like the girl in the video. these environments should be safe places to do this and sometimes, very rarely, they are not. that's the issue. not the drunkness
[quote]She didn't fucking do it tho? She drank a lot with a guy who she met for the first time, even though she rejected him a moment ago, at which point she should have realized he's after her bottom, therefore not to be trusted.[/quote]
just because someone is trying to get on you in a club doesn't mean you should suddenly stop drinking and go home because they're an untrustworthy rapist. sure you could watch your back but that kind of extreme action is irrational fear. shit if you're an attractive girl you'd never leave the house ever again if you had to go home every time someone came on to you
Christ, it's like half of you have never drank before.
[QUOTE=HellSoldier;40347618]Christ, it's like half of you have never drank before.[/QUOTE]
No just Silly Sil.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40347520]This is fucking stupid logic. You teach children to look both ways to prevent shit, but if you cross at a crosswalk while you have the right of way and you don't look both ways and get hit it's still not your fault even if you could have prevented it. Would you tell someone who got hit by a car at a crosswalk after they're signaled to go, "you fucking dumbass you should've looked both ways!!"
If so, you're an asshole and yes this is the same fucking thing.
That's what responsibility means. You are saying she should be held accountable [b]FOR GETTING RAPED[/b].
The woman in the OP video has absolutely no responsibility for the actions taken against her.
PLEASE stop blaming the victim.
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
Yes, we should teach people prevention tactics. No, we should not tell them how it's their fault if anything happens (because it's not, and it never is).[/QUOTE]
That's an awful comparison. The girl in the video was actively participating with him while drunk in the video. It wasn't him forcing himself on her, they were making out with each other repeatedly as they were walking to the apartment.
I don't see how you can blame drunken sex on one person while holding the other unaccountable completely. Where's the sense in that?
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504]Words[/QUOTE]
Making sure your friends are there to prevent you from going home with a stranger is a good thing. But that doesn't prevent rape. What prevents rape is to make sure YOURSELF that you don't get so intoxicated that you can't even think straight. I'm not going to rely on my friends to make sure that I don't do anything stupid if I'm drinking because I won't get to the point where I can't make decisions for myself. Besides, my friends will be drinking as well.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504][B]The point is that she went with responsible people who[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504][B]each failed to act, each one of them shrugs it off. [/B] [/QUOTE]
Pick one. Calling people responsible and saying they shrugged off when their friend is obviously taken advantage of does not compute.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504]
It's not like the first and second playthroughs happen with different people.
[/QUOTE]
How aren't they? In the first one they are irresponsible twats who let their friend get raped. In the second one they are actually watching over her and being responsible for her. How can you say that people who shrugged off as their friend is about to get raped are responsible and are watching over her is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504]
This has got to be the sorriest excuse at a comeback that I have ever seen.
"You're a rape apologist who ignores what victims did to keep themselves safe because you have the logic of 'well if she tried to stay safe, then she would've stayed safe! :downs', completely ignoring the fact that sometimes safety measures fail."
"Yeah, well, you... you don't know how to babysit. So there."
[/QUOTE]
This has got to be sorriest excuse at a strawman that I've ever seen.
You said it yourself that all these people who shrugged off that their friend is about to get raped were WATCHING OVER HER.
Therefore according to you watching over people is LOOKING and not acting. Therefore, I hope you never watch over someone because you won't do anything.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40347504]
Once. More. The people are the same both times. She went with people who she thought would watch over her, and we see that they are perfectly capable of doing so. She did account for the risk, but by chance her safety measures each failed.
Seriously, how can you say "well she went with her responsible best friend, so that's accounting for the risk, but if the friend somehow fails to watch over her then she has [I]retroactively[/I] not accounted for the risk."
You're retroactively deciding whether or not she took steps to protect herself based on whether those steps worked or not. Logic doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]
But the safety measures didn't work at all. It's not that they've failed, they weren't even there. I could understand if their friends tried but were unable to help, in that case I wouldn't say anything, but they didn't do anything. How is that watching over someone? Your entire argument how they were watching over her in the first playthrough is flawed. They didn't try to do shit, they didn't care. You can't call that watching over someone.
[QUOTE=HellSoldier;40347618]Christ, it's like half of you have never drank before.[/QUOTE]
I don't get so shitfaced that i dont know what I'm doing. I think that's a terrible idea
[QUOTE=Shadaez;40347520]This is fucking stupid logic. You teach children to look both ways to prevent shit, but if you cross at a crosswalk while you have the right of way and you don't look both ways and get hit it's still not your fault even if you could have prevented it. Would you tell someone who got hit by a car at a crosswalk after they're signaled to go, "you fucking dumbass you should've looked both ways!!"
If so, you're an asshole and yes this is the same fucking thing.
That's what responsibility means. You are saying she should be held accountable [b]FOR GETTING RAPED[/b].
The woman in the OP video has absolutely no responsibility for the actions taken against her.
PLEASE stop blaming the victim.
[editline]19th April 2013[/editline]
Yes, we should teach people prevention tactics. No, we should not tell them how it's their fault if anything happens (because it's not, and it never is).[/QUOTE]
How is it not partially someone's fault if they don't look before they cross a street and get hit? I'm not blaming the event on the victim I'm stating that it's better to prevent the incident than to let it happen in the first place. I don't see how you keep missing the point that YOU are at fault for getting so intoxicated that you can't say no or even think about what you're doing, YOU willingly drank alcohol so it's your responsibility to make sure YOU don't get out of hand. I can't believe you're defending someone's stupid decision to drink so much alcohol that they can't make a decision. Are you going to be blaming drunk driving on the alcohol next, after all the alcohol made them crash the car.
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347311]I don't understand how you can't see that even a shred of responsibility falls on the victim.
Why do you look both ways before you cross a street?[/QUOTE]
Because cars are fast and the drivers might not be able to see you and stop in time in order to avoid hitting you.
Rape is completely fucking different. Rape is a conscious decision by someone in order to exploit you.
Your analogy doesn't work whatsoever.
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347116]How is this any different than leaving your unlocked car full of expensive items in a poor neighborhood? Both party's are responsible to some degree here. The rapist is still a criminal and should be prosecuted. The woman should take some degree of responsibility and understand that she put herself in a situation that could have been avoided.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Pandamox;40347317]guys i'm gonna go to the most dangerous gang-invested parts of detroit, leave my car unlocked with money laying all over the seats, and walk away. if i come back and my stuff is gone then i can't be to blame whatsoever right???[/QUOTE]
Well, given that she actually [I]did[/I] take multiple safety measures, it's more like she left her car locked with any expensive items hidden in the glove box and parked it in an average neighborhood, but then had the car broken into anyway.
And that's ignoring the fact that comparing violating someone's bodily integrity to stealing some money is completely fucking stupid.
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347116]Clearly the aggressor wasn't forcing anything on her as she was too intoxicated to make the right decision.[/quote]
did you not see him dragging her all over the place
[QUOTE=reedbo;40347116]What the hell happened to self control, both on the rapist and the victim? At what point do you not realize that you're too drunk to make a conscious decision?[/QUOTE]
"At what point do you not make a conscious decision based on realizing that you're too drunk to make a conscious decision?"
I don't even
[QUOTE=Pandamox;40347317]If you're for some reason planning to get that drunk, go out with responsible people to look after you that you can trust. Hell you should do that even if you [I]don't[/I] plan on getting very drunk.[/quote]
she did that
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