Who Are You? - Anti-Rape Vid - General

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355196]Okay? That's not the situation we were talking about tho? So it's completely irrelevant?[/QUOTE] by the way you've been going it sounds like you're talking about every fucking situation

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40354890] You do realise that it legally does count as rape, right? Misread what signals? She rejected him when she was fine and had to make his move when she was glassy eyed and hardly able to make coherent sentences. On top of that he had to drag her along almost everywhere and she could hardly figure out where she was half the time. Admit it, he just wanted a fuck and figured a drunk girl can't say no.[/QUOTE] I didn't see it as the guy purposely getting the girl extra drunk so she would not be able to say no to him. I saw it more as the guy thinking that she is not entirely on board but having a chance anyway. If he purposely got her as drunk as possible because he thought she'd otherwise protest more, that is indeed a worse crime. But still not as bad as actual rape in my opinion.

[QUOTE=reedbo;40347754]How is it not partially someone's fault if they don't look before they cross a street and get hit? I'm not blaming the event on the victim I'm stating that it's better to prevent the incident than to let it happen in the first place. I don't see how you keep missing the point that YOU are at fault for getting so intoxicated that you can't say no or even think about what you're doing, YOU willingly drank alcohol so it's your responsibility to make sure YOU don't get out of hand. I can't believe you're defending someone's stupid decision to drink so much alcohol that they can't make a decision. Are you going to be blaming drunk driving on the alcohol next, after all the alcohol made them crash the car.[/QUOTE] It's a pretty huge false equivalence dude. When you get raped it's [I]someone else[/I] that's doing that to you — not alcohol When you drunk drive and run over someone, it's [I]you[/I] who's doing that to someone else

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40355168]Oh please, the myth of the ~dark alley~ A huge majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows personally[/QUOTE] The dark alley thing seems like it was meant as a metaphor, not a typical rape scenario. The metaphor has been used multiple times throughout the thread, you should probably have noticed it by now.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40355204]the difference between car and women is that women aren't objects[/QUOTE] You realize he never said the girl is like a car right? He just gave you an example of another situation where you increase risk. [QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40355227]by the way you've been going it sounds like you're talking about every fucking situation[/QUOTE] I'm talking about getting hammered with people you don't trust with your life. And no you shouldn't trust with your life people who you see for the first time. You just put yourself in danger if you do that.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355279]You realize he never said the girl is like a car right? He just gave you an example of another situation where you increase risk. I'm talking about getting hammered with people you don't trust with your life. And no you shouldn't trust with your life people who you see for the first time. You just put yourself in danger if you do that.[/QUOTE] She was out with her friend, her friend went to the toilet and the guy swooped in and took her to the bar. It's not like she went completely alone.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40355252]It's a pretty huge false equivalence dude. When you get raped it's [I]someone else[/I] that's doing that to you — not alcohol When you drunk drive and run over someone, it's [I]you[/I] who's doing that to someone else[/QUOTE] Stop being so literal about metaphors and comparisons. Is that your best counter argument? Here I'll post a situation that you can take literally and lets see what you do with it this time. I go to my friends house for a party. We drink a couple of drinks and the party ends. My friends leave but friends' friends (people who I've met for the first time) say that we can continue drinking at a nearby pub. So I go there and get so drunk I black out. I wake up with no wallet and no phone on a bench in the park. Am I responsible for the fact that my wallet and phone got stolen? No. The thief is. Am I responsible for putting myself in a situation where that's more likely to happen? Yes. And following that, it's dangerous to get blacked out with strangers or in a place that's not entirely safe, and you shouldn't do that. And that's it. That's the point. Why would you disagree is beyond me.

[QUOTE=blehblehbleh;40355063]I agree. If I was witnessing a potential rape, I would try my utmost to stop it. I don't see how this takes away from anything I've said previously.[/QUOTE] Then why focus just on what the victim does? You wondered why people don't take precautions, but they do and these simple steps are not the entirety of the solution and certainly aren't the sole thing that could have prevented it. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355094]But where did I say that it's either one or another? That's the point. I'm arguing that on top what the video said, it should also point out that the entire situation could be avoided by the girl herself, if she was more cautious when drinking. But apparently that makes me a victim-blamer and rape-apologist.[/QUOTE] Don't start with that bullshit, I'm not Shadaez. Claiming it could have all been avoided simply by the victim is simplistic garbage, might as well tell them that if they don't go outside, nothing bad will ever happen. It's a message that doesn't work and repeating it constantly just because you think it's the sole cause doesn't help shit. I know sure as shit that the threat of getting stabbed by some dumbass in a club doesn't stop me from getting drunk and it doesn't work for women either. The issue isn't that you claim she needs to take precautions, it's that you insist this is the sole issue to focus on. Other things help to create a safer environment and are far more effective in practice, and how effective each method is is what it really comes down to, not your should'ves. [QUOTE=squids_eye;40355212]Bouncers and bartenders have a club full of people to deal with, they can't catch everything. You and your friend only have each other to look out for.[/QUOTE] Mate if they go to the bar and he still serves them then he's had more than enough opportunity to do something. A friend isn't even a sure thing so if everyone else can help out too, it's all the better. Plus if your nightclub got a reputation for drunk girls getting raped it'd be pretty bad for business. It's definitely in their interests. [QUOTE=Overactor;40355240]I didn't see it as the guy purposely getting the girl extra drunk so she would not be able to say no to him. I saw it more as the guy thinking that she is not entirely on board but having a chance anyway. If he purposely got her as drunk as possible because he thought she'd otherwise protest more, that is indeed a worse crime. But still not as bad as actual rape in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Still, making a move when they're too pissed to know what they're doing is pretty scummy. He was more concerned with his dick than her wellbeing and you know she'd be pissed the next morning. Really got the wrong attitude towards sex, thinking all that matters is you get some, that's never going to end well.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355321]Claiming it could have all been avoided simply by the victim is simplistic garbage, might as well tell them that if they don't go outside, nothing bad will ever happen. It's a message that doesn't work and repeating it constantly just because you think it's the sole cause doesn't help shit. I know sure as shit that the threat of getting stabbed by some dumbass in a club doesn't stop me from getting drunk and it doesn't work for women either.[/QUOTE] You base your entire argument against me basing on assumption that I think it's the sole cause. It's not. It's one of the things that made it possible. I mean this is what you just quoted [quote]I'm arguing that [B]on top what[/B] the video said, it should [B]also [/B]point out that the entire situation could be avoided by the girl herself[/quote] It's just one of the things.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355357]You base your entire argument against me basing on assumption that I think it's the sole cause. It's not. It's one of the things that made it possible. I mean this is what you just quoted It's just one of the things.[/QUOTE] Then why do you take issue with it? Do you dispute that constantly whining that you shouldn't drink much is an ineffective message? Do you think there's any issue with getting others to help create a safer environment? Do you really think that putting it in would make any difference or is it just to satisfy your complaint? All you're doing now is saying vague things and then denying the implications of them, so grow some balls and make a real argument.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;40355311]She was out with her friend, her friend went to the toilet and the guy swooped in and took her to the bar. It's not like she went completely alone.[/QUOTE] Is it inconceivable that your friend will also get drunk? That they will loose track of you? That they won't be around you 100% of the time? You just have to account for these things. I've learned my lesson and I don't get blacked out drunk in a club or on a concert or something like that anymore. Because I realize it's dangerous. If I ever do that I do it in a place where I'll always be found and with people who'll take care of me if there'll be need for it.

[QUOTE=Tacooo;40344024]What if the girl was fine and everyone was cock blocking him[/QUOTE] I'm sure he can wait until he can get some with someone who isn't drunk. Better to play it safe.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355387]Is it inconceivable that your friend will also get drunk? That they will loose track of you? That they won't be around you 100% of the time? You just have to account for these things. I've learned my lesson and I don't get blacked out drunk in a club or on a concert or something like that anymore. Because I realize it's dangerous. If I ever do that I do it in a place where I'll always be found and with people who'll take care of me if there'll be need for it.[/QUOTE] Good for you, now nothing bad will ever happen to you and you can feel secure in your dominance over those stupid people who drink and go into an unsafe environment. Meanwhile everyone else can worry themselves with how to actually solve the issue rather than preaching about how much better they are.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355317] I go to my friends house for a party. We drink a couple of drinks and the party ends. My friends leave but friends' friends (people who I've met for the first time) say that we can continue drinking at a nearby pub. So I go there and get so drunk I black out. I wake up with no wallet and no phone on a bench in the park. Am I responsible for the fact that my wallet and phone got stolen? No. The thief is. Am I responsible for putting myself in a situation where that's more likely to happen? Yes. And following that, it's dangerous to get blacked out with strangers or in a place that's not entirely safe, and you shouldn't do that. And that's it. That's the point. Why would you disagree is beyond me.[/QUOTE] i know friends who lose wallets, phones and whatever other shit, but they dont let that get to them. you're nobodies knight in shining armor offering lame advice based off your own misfortunes. just cause your shit actions lead you to a shit predicament you're now in some rut over how drinking and trust should be perceived, of course you can say "could have should have and would have" while you're regretting some rookie ass move. getting exploited, yeah it fucking sucks big time, but you know what? shit happens, move on, live life

Telling someone to stop committing a crime is not effective. It's better to inform people about the precautions that can be applied to reduce the risk of being victimized.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355381]Then why do you take issue with it? [/QUOTE] Issue with what? People in this thread pointed out that on top of what the video said it's a bad idea to get blacked out with people you don't know. To which they were flamed for being disgusting victim blamers. And I'm only answering to that. [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355381]Do you dispute that constantly whining that you shouldn't drink much is an ineffective message? [/QUOTE] Do you dispute that people shouldn't get black out drunk with strangers in places they are not safe in? [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355381] Do you think there's any issue with getting others to help create a safer environment? [/QUOTE] No. Again I don't know where you got that idea. [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355381] Do you really think that putting it in would make any difference or is it just to satisfy your complaint?[/QUOTE] Do you really think that telling people that there's absolutely nothing wrong with getting smashed with strangers in places they are not safe in is a good idea? If more people will follow that mindset then more people will end up in a situation like the girl in the vid. Maybe most of the time there will be someone to watch over her, maybe in most situations there won't even be a guy who wants to take advantage of a drunk person but let it be 1 situation where it happens and that's too many. I don't understand why do you argue with me if my only point is that you should be responsible when drinking. Note that nowhere in there it says that I think it's the only thing that could stop rape. [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355381]All you're doing now is saying vague things and then denying the implications of them, so grow some balls and make a real argument.[/QUOTE] This is literally my point, which you have quoted twice now btw. [quote]I'm arguing that on top what the video said, it should also point out that the entire situation could be avoided by the girl herself, if she was more cautious when drinking.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355399]Good for you, now nothing bad will ever happen to you and you can feel secure in your dominance over those stupid people who drink and go into an unsafe environment. Meanwhile everyone else can worry themselves with how to actually solve the issue rather than preaching about how much better they are.[/QUOTE] How exactly is he doing this? Are you just grasping at straws or what? What he says is totally valid, you should only get really drunk (whether you're a boy or a girl) in an environment where you know people are looking out for you. The video in the OP was basically about exactly that, just from your friends' point of view. You've really done nothing but complain about his arguments, and it doesn't really seem like you've contemplated at all on how to fix this.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355399]Good for you, now nothing bad will ever happen to you and you can feel secure in your dominance over those stupid people who drink and go into an unsafe environment. Meanwhile everyone else can worry themselves with how to actually solve the issue rather than preaching about how much better they are.[/QUOTE] So taking precautions and telling people to take precautions is elevating yourself above others? Wow. So basically everyone who gives you an advice is an asshole. [QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40355402]i know friends who lose wallets, phones and whatever other shit, but they dont let that get to them. you're nobodies knight in shining armor offering lame advice based off your own misfortunes. just cause your shit actions lead you to a shit predicament you're now in some rut over how drinking and trust should be perceived, of course you can say "could have should have and would have" while you're regretting some rookie ass move. getting exploited, yeah it fucking sucks big time, but you know what? shit happens, move on, live life[/QUOTE] Why not learn on your own mistakes and on other people's mistakes? It's pretty easy to conclude that certain situations can be dangerous and should be avoided. Why would you advocate against that? This is some stupid yolo mindset. "oh it's dangerous? Lets do it anyway, shit happens, we will move on and live life"

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355480] Why not learn on your own mistakes and on other people's mistakes? It's pretty easy to conclude that certain situations can be dangerous and should be avoided. Why would you advocate against that? This is some stupid yolo mindset. "oh it's dangerous? Lets do it anyway, shit happens, we will move on and live life"[/QUOTE] cause i don't need to point out the obvious a billion times over trying to mother people into being careful, ive cleaned up after peoples mess and had my shit picked up after as well, but its also nice to be the stranger that is actually helpful.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355451]Issue with what? People in this thread pointed out that on top of what the video said it's a bad idea to get blacked out with people you don't know. To which they were flamed for being disgusting victim blamers. And I'm only answering to that. Do you dispute that people shouldn't get black out drunk with strangers in places they are not safe in?[/quote] You didn't answer the question. I don't care if you got drunk, had a cougar fiddle your boyparts and swore off the firewater, do you really think that telling people "just don't get drunk" will be very effective? It's the same thing as claiming abstinence is the only safe sex. [quote]Do you really think that telling people that there's absolutely nothing wrong with getting smashed with strangers in places they are not safe in is a good idea? If more people will follow that mindset then more people will end up in a situation like the girl in the vid. Maybe most of the time there will be someone to watch over her, maybe in most situations there won't even be a guy who wants to take advantage of a drunk person but let it be 1 situation where it happens and that's too much. I don't understand why do you argue with me if my only point is that you should be responsible when drinking. Note that nowhere in there it says that I think it's the only thing that could stop rape.[/quote] At no point does it say that it's ok to get shitfaced, you put that in yourself. I argue with you because it's an archaic way of thinking and one that isn't effective in the slightest. If all it took was a wise elder to tell children of the mistakes they made when they were kids for them never to fall into that trap, 90% of crime wouldn't exist. The issue is to find what works and your idea flat out doesn't. [quote]This is literally my point, which you have quoted twice now btw.[/QUOTE] Well thanks for giving the context that you're a preacher, really helped the situation. [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;40355464]How exactly is he doing this? Are you just grasping at straws or what? What he says is totally valid, you should only get really drunk (whether you're a boy or a girl) in an environment where you know people are looking out for you. The video in the OP was basically about exactly that, just from your friends' point of view. You've really done nothing but complain about his arguments, and it doesn't really seem like you've contemplated at all on how to fix this.[/QUOTE] Hopefully I made it a bit clearer in this post but generally, the method of abstinence is what I take issue with for how ineffective it is. And yes, I've contemplated how to fix it, moreso than Sil, that's the issue. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355480]So taking precautions and telling people to take precautions is elevating yourself above others? Wow. So basically everyone who gives you an advice is an asshole. Why not learn on your own mistakes and on other people's mistakes? It's pretty easy to conclude that certain situations can be dangerous and should be avoided. Why would you advocate against that? This is some stupid yolo mindset. "oh it's dangerous? Lets do it anyway, shit happens, we will move on and live life"[/QUOTE] Because it doesn't work. People know exactly how fucked up hard drugs make you, think it stops them? It took you to have a shit incident yourself and I'm fairly certain that people would have been telling you to stop drinking before then. It doesn't matter how it sounds in your head or how many should'ves you use, all that matters is will it be effective and your idea that telling people to not drink too much will do anything is just absurd. We've got a ton of anti-binge drinking adverts around already, how effective do you think they are when 40% of youths here still do it?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355399]Good for you, now nothing bad will ever happen to you and you can feel secure in your dominance over those stupid people who drink and go into an unsafe environment.[/quote] There is no single place on this planet that is one hundred percent safe, no matter where you stand and what you are doing you are in danger, however some places and situations the chance of encountering danger is much more likely than others. The idea is not to lock yourself up in your room where no one can harm you, the idea is to recognise the danger that each situation poses and make a rational assessment as to the level of care you need to exercise in that particular environment. A bar it turns out is not just a fun place, it's also a dangerous place, you need to find a balance between your own enjoyment and your own safety and that balance is in how you behave (such as having your friends look out for you as was seen in the video, or finding out how much alcohol you can handle then not surpassing that relative amount). No one is blaming the victim and no one is alleviating the blame put onto the perpetrator, except maybe one guy who posted once. This video is suggesting what other people can do to prevent rape, I and some other people have said that the video excludes measures that could have been taken by the victim themselves and thus is an incomplete video that gives the message that others should take responsibility for you, but not you for yourself. As I have said at another point in this thread, the reason why people don't follow up what they say, "But the guy who did it is still a rapist", is because it's almost redundant to say that because he clearly is. [quote]Meanwhile everyone else can worry themselves with how to actually solve the issue rather than preaching about how much better they are.[/QUOTE] To drink in moderation and to be cautious is a means by which you can solve the problem, you're conflating the idea that you can take precautions to help prevent something with the idea that if you don't the person who commits a crime against you is absolved of sin and it is then placed upon you. You may or may not remember that in the past there have been calls to perform certain actions while in bars to prevent date rape via the use of drugs, the suggestion being that you wanna keep your hand over your drink at all times, and make sure that no one spikes it. Does the idea that people shouldn't infringe upon the safety of other people override personal actions that you can take to prevent infringement? I do not think so.

[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40355554]cause i don't need to point out the obvious a billion times over trying to mother people into being careful, ive cleaned up after peoples mess and had my shit picked up after as well, but its also nice to be the stranger that is actually helpful.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between saying "it's obvious no need to say that again and again" and arguing AGAINST that, and people have been doing that in this thread. And to be honest telling friends, roommates, bartenders and bouncers not to let drunken girls get taken advantage of is equally obvious. So I don't see why shouldn't that be pointed out too, while we're at the subject.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]Because it doesn't work. People know exactly how fucked up hard drugs make you, think it stops them? It took you to have a shit incident yourself and I'm fairly certain that people would have been telling you to stop drinking before then. It doesn't matter how it sounds in your head or how many should'ves you use, all that matters is will it be effective and your idea that telling people to not drink too much will do anything is just absurd. We've got a ton of anti-binge drinking adverts around already, how effective do you think they are when 40% of youths here still do it?[/QUOTE] If you are so reckless you cannot take measures to ensure your own safety, you deserve help when you are violated, but not sympathy. If you can't change the behaviour of the people who put themselves in danger to a lower risk alternative behaviour, how can you reasonably expect their friends to change their behaviour to accommodate your recklessness. If you as an individual are reckless, how can you expect your friends to not also be reckless and also be in a situation where they themselves are in need of help as you are too, as opposed to being those who need to look out for your interests. If you are incapable of taking up a safe behaviour like drinking in moderation, what expectation is there that you would take up the behaviour of guardian of he who cannot take up the aforementioned behaviour. If all your friends are just as likely to be incapacitated, who looks out for who? There is of course, that guy who doesn't drink because he's a designated driver, if you can adapt that system but instead of staying abstinent to drive, you stay abstinent to care for your friends, then you've got a system that makes sense and allows you to be more irresponsible than you otherwise could be. However if one person is willing to shoulder such a responsibility at the expense of his own enjoyment, is it not unfair to deprive him of his enjoyment because you cannot exercise enough responsibility to drink in moderation?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]You didn't answer the question. I don't care if you got drunk, had a cougar fiddle your boyparts and swore off the firewater, do you really think that telling people "just don't get drunk" will be very effective? It's the same thing as claiming abstinence is the only safe sex.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying you shouldn't get drunk at all. Just limit your drinking accordingly to your situation. A club is not the place to pass out drunk. [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]At no point does it say that it's ok to get shitfaced, you put that in yourself. [/QUOTE] But you're against telling people to be responsible when drinking. So how am I putting that there myself? [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]I argue with you because it's an archaic way of thinking and one that isn't effective in the slightest. If all it took was a wise elder to tell children of the mistakes they made when they were kids for them never to fall into that trap, 90% of crime wouldn't exist. The issue is to find what works and your idea flat out doesn't.[/QUOTE] So telling kids to look both ways when they cross the street is an archaic mindset that will not keep them safer? Idiot. Not being smashed would prevent the entire situation. If you do want to get smashed in a club, be aware that it's dangerous. [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]Well thanks for giving the context that you're a preacher, really helped the situation.[/QUOTE] "What a fucking asshole telling people not to put themselves in a dangerous stop." [QUOTE=Devodiere;40355565]It doesn't matter how it sounds in your head or how many should'ves you use, all that matters is will it be effective and your idea that telling people to not drink too much will do anything is just absurd. We've got a ton of anti-binge drinking adverts around already, how effective do you think they are when 40% of youths here still do it?[/QUOTE] About 60%?

[QUOTE=blehblehbleh;40354731]I can't tell if this is serious or not. Is this ad supposed to actually affect the way potential rapists act? Do you accept the fact that if you avoid going out by yourself and get completely shitfaced (not saying that necessarily happens in this video), you are significantly less likely to get raped? What I'm essentially trying to say is that rape victims of the type described above aren't responsible for getting raped, however, they did commit stupid actions which led to their rape being more likely. This doesn't mean that their rapist is any less responsible, or should receive any lighter type of punishment. It does not mean that they were asking to get raped. It just means that there were very simple steps they could have taken to avoid getting raped, and I don't understand why you wouldn't encourage people to take these steps.[/QUOTE] If you leave your house you're more likely to get raped, too, so people should sit inside all day with their door locked! There's a fine line between educating people on how to protect themselves and getting victim blamey, and honestly telling people not to get drunk in public or whatever isn't going to stop rape. It'll change who gets raped maybe, but in this example if it was stopped early enough it's likely he would have just found someone else with maybe less of a safety net. Therefore, the only way to stop rape is to educate potential rapists what is and isn't rape, like in HS or something. There's proof that these types of anti-rape education work. [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;40354949]What the fuck Shadaez,, you're clearly just trying to start shit: Did you just make this thread to get "bad responses" so you could laugh about them? Are you seriously abusing the matter of rape to get a "ROFLCOPTER GOING LOL LOL". That's so. Fucking. Cheap. This is as bad as making a shitty post about rape, you're just using the subject as laughing material.[/QUOTE] Yeah I post something to a different thread about poop on facepunch and you bring it here and yet I'm the one trying to start something. Fuck me!

[QUOTE=Devodiere;40355321]Still, making a move when they're too pissed to know what they're doing is pretty scummy. He was more concerned with his dick than her wellbeing and you know she'd be pissed the next morning. Really got the wrong attitude towards sex, thinking all that matters is you get some, that's never going to end well.[/QUOTE] Don't get me wrong I'm 100% with you on that, but equating that to or even putting it in the same ballpark as using brute force to fuck someone who vocally and physically protests against it is a step too far for me.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;40355690]If you leave your house you're more likely to get raped, too, so people should sit inside all day with their door locked! There's a fine line between educating people on how to protect themselves and getting victim blamey, and honestly telling people not to get drunk in public or whatever isn't going to stop rape. It'll change who gets raped maybe, but in this example if it was stopped early enough it's likely he would have just found someone else with maybe less of a safety net. Therefore, the only way to stop rape is to educate potential rapists what is and isn't rape, like in HS or something. There's proof that these types of anti-rape education work. [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] Yeah I post something to a different thread about poop on facepunch and you bring it here and yet I'm the one trying to start something. Fuck me![/QUOTE] Do as you like, I just don't like the fact that you make a quite serious thread about rape, then go on to make a thread stating in one of your first posts: [QUOTE]So, I posted a cool anti-rape video here: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?...1#post40334230[/url] . While the responses were better than expected there was still a whole bunch of victim blaming![/QUOTE] Like what you wanted was people flinging shit. Take it or leave it, but I think you're going for some cheap laughs while actually posting something serious. I'm not trying to start anything, I actually replied (that's part you cut out there) to you, and only later I noticed the SFPS thread you made. If you don't want to argue about it, just reply reply to someone else.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;40355690]If you leave your house you're more likely to get raped, too, so people should sit inside all day with their door locked![/QUOTE] "if you drink and drive you are more likely to get in a car crash? well if you get in a car you are more likely to get into a car crash, better never enter a car". Your strawmen are stupid. There's reasonable level of risk that you should avoid. [QUOTE=Shadaez;40355690]There's a fine line between educating people on how to protect themselves and getting victim blamey, and honestly telling people not to get drunk in public or whatever isn't going to stop rape. It'll change who gets raped maybe, but in this example if it was stopped early enough it's likely he would have just found someone else with maybe less of a safety net. Therefore, the only way to stop rape is to educate potential rapists what is and isn't rape, like in HS or something. There's proof that these types of anti-rape education work. [/QUOTE] Wait. You're saying that safety net is not going to stop rape because he'll find another girl, but you post a video about expanding the safety net. Of course being more careful will not eliminate rape. Only the rapists can do that. But until they do that, you should be careful and don't put yourself in the situation where you can be taken advantage of.

[QUOTE=Riutet;40355575]There is no single place on this planet that is one hundred percent safe, no matter where you stand and what you are doing you are in danger, however some places and situations the chance of encountering danger is much more likely than others. The idea is not to lock yourself up in your room where no one can harm you, the idea is to recognise the danger that each situation poses and make a rational assessment as to the level of care you need to exercise in that particular environment. A bar it turns out is not just a fun place, it's also a dangerous place, you need to find a balance between your own enjoyment and your own safety and that balance is in how you behave (such as having your friends look out for you as was seen in the video, or finding out how much alcohol you can handle then not surpassing that relative amount). No one is blaming the victim and no one is alleviating the blame put onto the perpetrator, except maybe one guy who posted once. This video is suggesting what other people can do to prevent rape, I and some other people have said that the video excludes measures that could have been taken by the victim themselves and thus is an incomplete video that gives the message that others should take responsibility for you, but not you for yourself. As I have said at another point in this thread, the reason why people don't follow up what they say, "But the guy who did it is still a rapist", is because it's almost redundant to say that because he clearly is. To drink in moderation and to be cautious is a means by which you can solve the problem, you're conflating the idea that you can take precautions to help prevent something with the idea that if you don't the person who commits a crime against you is absolved of sin and it is then placed upon you. You may or may not remember that in the past there have been calls to perform certain actions while in bars to prevent date rape via the use of drugs, the suggestion being that you wanna keep your hand over your drink at all times, and make sure that no one spikes it. Does the idea that people shouldn't infringe upon the safety of other people override personal actions that you can take to prevent infringement? I do not think so.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Riutet;40355593]If you are so reckless you cannot take measures to ensure your own safety, you deserve help when you are violated, but not sympathy.[/QUOTE] We're getting to the point of overlap and most of what you said is things I have said previously, so rather than respond to your entire essay, can I reiterate the point of contention? The issue isn't about taking precautions or not, it is about whether to include them in this video or in other education. People are either already aware of the dangers involved in binge drinking, or they don't care and one more message warning about rape isn't going to be effective in making things safer. Changing the mindset of other people from the idea of cockblocking the guy and working to make the environment they are in safer is an avenue that has proven effectiveness. It's not a matter of what should be put it, it's a matter of what will work. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40355662]I'm not saying you shouldn't get drunk at all. Just limit your drinking accordingly to your situation. A club is not the place to pass out drunk.[/quote] And I'm not saying that telling people that isn't going to work, just that it's not going to work. [quote]But you're against telling people to be responsible when drinking. So how am I putting that there myself?[/quote] Oh come on, I'm also against telling people not to do drugs, because I know if they want to they'll do it anyway and you're only stroking your ego. This is a matter of practicality, not principle. [quote]So telling kids to look both ways when they cross the street is an archaic mindset that will not keep them safer? Idiot. Not being smashed would prevent the entire situation. If you do want to get smashed in a club, be aware that it's dangerous.[/quote] Look both ways is a practical solution, one they can do prior to doing what they want. Telling them not to cross the road without an adult will probably get ignored. The difference is between telling someone to bring a friend, and telling them don't get drunk, see what I'm getting at here? [quote]"What a fucking asshole telling people not to put themselves in a dangerous stop."[/quote] More like "What a pretentious cunt thinking people give a shit about his experiences", but I'm not that mean. [quote]About 60%?[/QUOTE] You didn't even figure out not to binge drink on your own until you had a bad experience, yet you still think that the only reason they wouldn't is because someone told them not to? Really now.

the video is not about drinking responsibly, it's about teaching men who are somewhat ignorant about this issue. also it has been stated quite a few times that the woman in the video was manipulated into drinking more than she should have