all of the thief games have excellent OSTs, including the newest one. i don't know why people are ripping on the soundtrack of the newest one, because:
- it has plenty of slow, atmospheric dark ambient music from what i've seen
- when things heat up, you get moderately fast electronic music, which is what the original thief games had at times. all of it sounds consistent and tense
there's no issues in translation here. what's the problem with the music
[QUOTE=Ownederd;44037875]all of the thief games have excellent OSTs, including the newest one. i don't know why people are ripping on the soundtrack of the newest one, because:
- it has plenty of slow, atmospheric dark ambient music from what i've seen
- when things heat up, you get moderately fast electronic music, which is what the original thief games had at times
there's no issues in translation here. what's the problem with the music[/QUOTE]
Completely wrong on your second point.
The new Thief has loud as fuck actiony bullshit music when you knock out a guard.
The older Thiefs were always atmospheric, never getting louder, and dynamically changing what was going on in the tracks from location to location but always quietly in the background.
New one is just loud and forgetful and the electronic statement is flatout wrong.
Go to 2:30 because this is about as electronic and fast as the old ones get aside from the main themes which dont play in levels.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xhLYmklbZo[/url]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44037892]Completely wrong on your second point.
The new Thief has loud as fuck actiony bullshit music when you knock out a guard.
The older Thiefs were always atmospheric, never getting louder, and dynamically changing what was going on in the tracks from location to location but always quietly in the background.
New one is just loud and forgetful and the electronic statement is flatout wrong.
Go to 2:30 because this is about as electronic and fast as the old ones get aside from the main themes which dont play in levels.
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xhLYmklbZo[/URL][/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure you can disable more fast-paced music in the newest Thief if you're gonna argue about this, if you just want pure ambient textures in the background. just about any game has this option
[QUOTE=Ownederd;44037934]i'm pretty sure you can disable more fast-paced music in the newest Thief if you're gonna argue about this if you just want pure ambient textures in the background. just about any game has this option[/QUOTE]
Pretty damn sure you cant in the options, I didnt see shit in the TB videos relating that when he went over options.
So you are stuck with stupid dumb loud action music which serves no purpose when you knock someone out.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44037955]Pretty damn sure you cant in the options, I didnt see shit in the TB videos relating that when he went over options.
So you are stuck with stupid dumb loud action music which serves no purpose when you knock someone out.[/QUOTE]
they're stingers. i don't see how they are out of place
[QUOTE=Ownederd;44037960]they're stingers. i don't see how they are out of place[/QUOTE]
Big immersion breaker that happens all game.
Thief is about being a sneaky quiet Thief. Loud ass blaring unfitting music each time you knock someone out does not do anything for the atmosphere or immersion.
The music in the new Thief is so cringe worthy to me, every time you get spotted you have this insanely loud dubstep playing. The atmosphere was already not great but having to suffer through that every time you get noticed is a fucking pain. At least it's a good motivation to stay out of sight.
The visual/sound design in Thief is all over the place really. Visually it doesn't know where to go so it has this dishonored-esque general feel to it but still decided to go more modern on some aspects and some places are straight up too modern to even remotely work in this game (there's an entire passage in an asylum that looks taken straight out of Outlast), the supernatural visuals are too vanilla and tame which doesn't fit the story's insistence that supernatural is supposed to be pants-shittingly scary to look at, the game tries to have some mindfuck moments but they come off as too barebones and not nearly weird enough to actually look good, etc.
The original games (especially the first one, the second one sorted it out a bit more) also had a lot of anachronisms going on with electricity being a thing in what appears to be a late medieval era, but it was fairly consistent to what those anachronisms were and where they could be found, and they were still altered to fit the overall design of the game and medieval feel it had. Not to mention, those anachronisms were explained in the lore.
Sound wise it went from very, VERY oppressing ambient sounds to pretty much the most bare-bones, generic ambient noise possible. They should have kept closer to the original game's oppressive humming and distant sounds, it highlighted the supernatural aspects while keeping the player under pressure.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGZa5vQCP9Y[/media]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44036728]Im not upset its using the Thief name.
Im saying it just adds confusing when its just the 1 word shit when their are already multiple games in the series.
It just adds confusing when talking about the games, its minor but its the same shit with Tomb Raider. Same with Simcity.
Plus every other Thief had a neat title, would have at least been nice if this one did as well.[/QUOTE]
Everyone will simply put 2014 at the end of the title, this is what we should do anyway, the game should just plain already be named "Thief 2014" but I don't know if that'd really fit...
[video=http://youtu.be/zD1kLUlqdOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1kLUlqdOI&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Now I don't know about you guys, but I fucking love this.
The rest is ehh, but this is just awesome.
The stealth mechanics look solid, as not shown by TB. But the fact that you can't jump or shoot rope arrows anywhere kinda puts me off. It just makes you feel too sticky to the ground and not so acrobatic.
I used to play a mod for Unreal Tournament called Thievery, which was pretty much a multiplayer version of Thief where one team played the thieves and the other played the guards. It was one of the most unconventional FPS games I've ever played, but also one of the most fun games (if not [b]the[/b] most fun game).
Unfortunately, after having played basically a multiplayer version of Thief, the singleplayer doesn't interest me nearly as much. It's just not as fun when you're used to guards cursing and taunting at you, while frantically slashing through the shadows after you knocked out their buddy and stole the master's prize artifact from under their noses.
[QUOTE=V12US;44038724]I used to play a mod for Unreal Tournament called Thievery, which was pretty much a multiplayer version of Thief where one team played the thieves and the other played the guards. It was one of the most unconventional FPS games I've ever played, but also one of the most fun games (if not [b]the[/b] most fun game).
Unfortunately, after having played basically a multiplayer version of Thief, the singleplayer doesn't interest me nearly as much. It's just not as fun when you're used to guards cursing and taunting at you, while frantically slashing through the shadows after you knocked out their buddy and stole the master's prize artifact from under their noses.[/QUOTE]
Ive heard a lot about Thievery but never got into it, im gonna assume its completely dead by now?
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44038738]Ive heard a lot about Thievery but never got into it, im gonna assume its completely dead by now?[/QUOTE]
Probably. The last time I played it was years ago, and the community back then was already whittled down to maybe a dozen die hards.
Personally, even as a fan of the old games, I think this looks phenomenal and I can't want to play it. Then again, I go into every game, reboot or not, with the mindset of a fresh, new to the series player instead of "this is not the original therefore it is not good." Hell, I vastly enjoyed a lot of games considered horrible, such as Dawn of War 2, Diablo 3 and Unreal Tournament 3. Play the game for the game, enjoy it, find things you like or don't like about it and compare it later. If you keep comparing everything to its predecessor, your life will be a very disappointment-filled one.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44038738]Ive heard a lot about Thievery but never got into it, im gonna assume its completely dead by now?[/QUOTE]
The concept isn't dead. Quite a few games these days have similar modes. Spliner Cell: Blacklist has a Spies vs Mercs mode, which is exactly that, for example.
in my mind reboot thief is made for newcomers and people who casually played the previous thief games.
if you honestly want a thief game where you can ghost everything and jump on roofs and skip the entire level, go play the dark mod.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;44038262]The stealth mechanics look solid, as not shown by TB. But the fact that you can't jump or shoot rope arrows anywhere kinda puts me off. It just makes you feel too sticky to the ground and not so acrobatic.[/QUOTE]
That combined with the considerably smaller levels means the game is going to be a lot more linear, which for a stealth game can be a real issue.
[quote]That combined with the considerably smaller levels means the game is going to be a lot more linear, which for a stealth game can be a real issue.[/quote]
Mission maps might be a bit smaller but the city is [i]enormous[/i]. Part of what I love in a Thief game is exploration; this Thief has that in spades as it comes to the non-story bits. There's a definite division in design between story missions and the 'whatever' between them; you even have a 'return to the city' option while you're in a story mission which just boots you back in to the city.
Seems like every time I go over an area I've already gone through I find another path or another house that I somehow missed, or an exit onto the rooftops, or a crevasse which leads down below. Et cetera.
[QUOTE=aydin690;44036828]But '4' is 'A' in haxor 1337 speak.[/QUOTE]
Ion Storm missed out.
Thi3f: Deadly Shadows.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44037955]Pretty damn sure you cant in the options, I didnt see shit in the TB videos relating that when he went over options.
So you are stuck with stupid dumb loud action music which serves no purpose when you knock someone out.[/QUOTE]
I've never once had loud music play when I knocked a dude out. When I got into a fight it definitely picked up, but as long as I was sneaky, the music was low key.
The one time I can think that your complaint is kinda valid is in the overworld. When I'm just travelling on the rooftops and having fun I do notice that the music picks up, but it sounds sick as hell and only tends to happen when I'm not trying to be sneaky as hell
[editline]25th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44040814]That combined with the considerably smaller levels means the game is going to be a lot more linear, which for a stealth game can be a real issue.[/QUOTE]
I've noticed that a lot of the story missions have a Dishonored feel to them, design wise.
There is a place you need to get to, sure, but within the area you've generally got a few options. You can dance around guard patrols all sneaky like, a lot of the time you have a high ground you can take, be it over rafters or whatever, and then you have ventilation systems which are plentiful as well.
Not including the whole beat down everyone you meet options cause fuck that
The problem I see with Thief is the same kind of problem A Machine For Pigs has; yes, by themselves the games are decent enough, and you will enjoy them if you like their genre (Thief with stealth games, aMfP with...walking...scary simulators...I didn't like that game much, if you couldn't tell).
The problem comes when there's a previous franchise attached them; now, not only do you have a bunch of hardcore fans coming out of the woodworks, complaining about how much it differs from the original series, but also because if they aren't good enough the franchise is doomed even further. Unfortunately, this may very well be the case.
Now, the Amnesia devs have already announced a new game (rather recently after aMfP, I might add), so it seems they're going to be just fine. But Thief's rather poor fan reception (and mediocre reviewer reception) is not going to do any favors for Eidos. I'm actually kinda worried Squeenix is gonna pull off another Tomb Raider/Hitman scenario, where their projected sales and projected reception were so high that the game's now considered a commercial failure, with Eidos on the receiving end of it all. Will they pull the plug on the next Deus Ex? I doubt that, but it definitely hurt them in some way/shape/form.
So yeah, while I do respect Totalbiscuit's opinion of Thief, I also understand the feelings of those who wanted a Thi4f; everything is relative, as TB said.
Also wtf, dubstep? that's funny. The heaviest shit in the game is a NIN-like Industrial Electronic, and that sounds amazing and is really fitting
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;44045279]I've never once had loud music play when I knocked a dude out. When I got into a fight it definitely picked up, but as long as I was sneaky, the music was low key.
The one time I can think that your complaint is kinda valid is in the overworld. When I'm just travelling on the rooftops and having fun I do notice that the music picks up, but it sounds sick as hell and only tends to happen when I'm not trying to be sneaky as hell
[editline]25th February 2014[/editline]
I've noticed that a lot of the story missions have a Dishonored feel to them, design wise.
There is a place you need to get to, sure, but within the area you've generally got a few options. You can dance around guard patrols all sneaky like, a lot of the time you have a high ground you can take, be it over rafters or whatever, and then you have ventilation systems which are plentiful as well.
Not including the whole beat down everyone you meet options cause fuck that[/QUOTE]
How do you not have that loud ass music each time you knock someone out. It happens every single time you do a takedown.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44045455]How do you not have that loud ass music each time you knock someone out. It happens every single time you do a takedown.[/QUOTE]
I turned off music.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44037634]I came to love Thief 1-3 a lot, especially 1/2 in 2012, I started with 3. Like it really became an instant favorite because of how great they were, I went in 100% blind, pretty sure I bought 3 on a steam sale on a whim. So seeing what happened with this Thief it is disappointing.
I can see how the gameplay seems great if you never played the others, but after seeing it in action, its rather shallow compared to the first 3, especially 2.
The customization is great, especially the hud shit, I will give it that, I wish more games did this because its fucking fantastic.
If you are gonna play this, go for it, but I strongly suggest playing 1, or at the very least 2 afterwards or even before. I would easily put Thief 1/2 right next to HL1 on how great they are.
1 has a lot more monsters that can only be killed and supernatural spooky shit along with the best writing
2 is focused 100% on pure stealth and stealing shit from mansions/banks/houses/warehouses/etc... with the best level design in the series. Monsters are generally just cute cameos.
3 is a weird mix thats not as good but still a good Thief game and very faithful. Kind of a bitch to run on modern machines sometimes.[/QUOTE]
I suppose maybe the stealthing and whatnot is shallower than what they used to have. That seems to be a theme as things get more advanced and thus harder to make. Like how in Morrowind you had to equip every last piece of armor individually, and in Skyrim it's just 'Iron Armor'. But from what I saw in Totalbiscuit's video, it has more than enough to still be stealth, which we're kinda in dire need of.
I can understand why you'd recommend playing Thief 1, 2, and 3 first, hell, that's my plan in the first place.
Still, I can't help but feel that the opposition to Thief 4 is based more on nostalgia and overly strong attachment, but Thief 4 really isn't a spit in the face of Thief. Sure, the soundtrack is different, it's more linear, and stuff is shallower, but they still respect the older fans, obviously. They could have just said fuck it and gave Garrett a big dumb assassin's creed blade or whatever. But they didn't, because they're very clearly trying. You're not the only ones who didn't like the linearity and other things either, so who knows? Maybe this is a jumping off point, from which a sequel can greatly improve.
If nothing else, remember this: The last Thief game was ten years ago. The series pretty much died. And Thief 4 is reviving it, from which it now has potential to do things again. Thief 4 might not be the best Thief game in the series, but it could very well be the Thief that kept it alive, and that makes the game worth it.
Also it's one of the few actual big stealth games out right now.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;44046087]I suppose maybe the stealthing and whatnot is shallower than what they used to have. That seems to be a theme as things get more advanced and thus harder to make. Like how in Morrowind you had to equip every last piece of armor individually, and in Skyrim it's just 'Iron Armor'. But from what I saw in Totalbiscuit's video, it has more than enough to still be stealth, which we're kinda in dire need of.
I can understand why you'd recommend playing Thief 1, 2, and 3 first, hell, that's my plan in the first place.
Still, I can't help but feel that the opposition to Thief 4 is based more on nostalgia and overly strong attachment, but Thief 4 really isn't a spit in the face of Thief. Sure, the soundtrack is different, it's more linear, and stuff is shallower, but they still respect the older fans, obviously. They could have just said fuck it and gave Garrett a big dumb assassin's creed blade or whatever. But they didn't, because they're very clearly trying. You're not the only ones who didn't like the linearity and other things either, so who knows? Maybe this is a jumping off point, from which a sequel can greatly improve.
If nothing else, remember this: The last Thief game was ten years ago. The series pretty much died. And Thief 4 is reviving it, from which it now has potential to do things again. Thief 4 might not be the best Thief game in the series, but it could very well be the Thief that kept it alive, and that makes the game worth it.
Also it's one of the few actual big stealth games out right now.[/QUOTE]
The fact the game is at a whooping 69 on metacritic, which publishers and company heads really give a fuck about, is a big spit in the face of the Thief series. Because now no one is gonna want to fund another one for a very long time, if ever.
You cant just base opposition against the new Thief because of "Nolstagia", Most of the Thief fans werent expecting a copy and paste of the old ones, they just wanted it to be a great Thief game, which its not, so people are pissed, its not because its not like its 90s counterpart.
Hell, you cant even move freely in a 3D plane, you are locked down to the ground and contextual movement, that alone is just a huge, unnecessary step backwards.
The series is not getting revived with this reboot, instead its digging its own grave sadly.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44046246]The fact the game is at a whooping 69 on metacritic, which publishers and company heads really give a fuck about, is a big spit in the face of the Thief series. Because now no one is gonna want to fund another one for a very long time, if ever.
You cant just base opposition against the new Thief because of "Nolstagia", Most of the Thief fans werent expecting a copy and paste of the old ones, they just wanted it to be a great Thief game, which its not, so people are pissed, its not because its not like its 90s counterpart.
Hell, you cant even move freely in a 3D plane, you are locked down to the ground and contextual movement, that alone is just a huge, unnecessary step backwards.
The series is not getting revived with this reboot, instead its digging its own grave sadly.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call it dead so soon. It seemed like from the first time we saw anything, however, people had the mindset that this Thief was going to be shit and an insult to Thief. There are plenty of objective criticisms, but it does still feel a little bit like bias, and nobody is going to want to make a new Thief game either if it immediately gets pounced and picked apart by old fans.
Not being able to jump is always a shitty thing, so I'm not going to bother defending that.
I think maybe the better thing to have done is just make another stealth thieving series. That way we can go into it with a clean mindset, with no expectations. The Thief name has shown to carry with it very stringent expectations of what will be received.
I don't know, I just want new stealth games, and I want Thief 4 to be the game that makes that happen. I wish people had gone into Thief 4 with a positive and optimistic attitude rather than a negative one, and took it as it's own thing rather than weighing it up against what is certainly viewed with at least some level of rose tinted glasses the older games.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;44046439]I wouldn't call it dead so soon. It seemed like from the first time we saw anything, however, people had the mindset that this Thief was going to be shit and an insult to Thief. There are plenty of objective criticisms, but it does still feel a little bit like bias, and nobody is going to want to make a new Thief game either if it immediately gets pounced and picked apart by old fans.
Not being able to jump is always a shitty thing, so I'm not going to bother defending that.
I think maybe the better thing to have done is just make another stealth thieving series. That way we can go into it with a clean mindset, with no expectations. The Thief name has shown to carry with it very stringent expectations of what will be received.
I don't know, I just want new stealth games, and I want Thief 4 to be the game that makes that happen. I wish people had gone into Thief 4 with a positive and optimistic attitude rather than a negative one, and took it as it's own thing rather than weighing it up against what is certainly viewed with at least some level of rose tinted glasses the older games.[/QUOTE]
Dude seriously stop saying its just people weighing it against the old ones.
Its a shallow game regardless of its name, having a different name isnt gonna fix all the problems.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;44046502]Dude seriously stop saying its just people weighing it against the old ones.
Its a shallow game regardless of its name, having a different name isnt gonna fix all the problems.[/QUOTE]
I'm not. I'm saying that people weighing it against the old games is [I]part of it.[/I]
But ok, let's put this Thief in a box and say the old games don't exist, and let's look at this game in and of itself.
There are plenty of objective criticisms - the game is fairly linear, the AI can be stupid, and you can't jump, for instance.
But I'd say those criticisms do not ruin the experience. To look at the positive aspects of it:
The stealth looks fairly good. From what I've seen, you have clear indication of whether or not you're visible, you need to hide in shadows, peek around corners and through keyholes, watch out for trapped safes, avoid civilians who will call the guard, and so on. And you're given more than sufficient reason to actually engage in the stealth.
The game itself looks amazing. The game has awesome lighting in particular, and that looks like it aids the feel of sneaking around in the shadows perfectly.
I really wish I could comment on the soundtrack or the story, but I'm failing to find straight music from the game with nobody talking, and I'm also avoiding spoilers, so I apologize. What the description of the story on steam and wikipedia tell me is that it's about Garrett taking advantage of strongly growing tensions between the lower and higher classes to make himself rich. That sounds creative enough to me. Using names like 'The City' and 'The Baron' is a bit silly, though. Presumably the Crackdown Naming Committee have found work there.
These things add up to a game actually looks fairly good to me. It looks atmospheric, tense, and enjoyable, but not perfect and certainly containing some rather annoying flaws. I still think I'm going to enjoy my time with Thief 4 a lot.
EM and Ubisoft's could have always just made a new franchise. But they didn't. You don't just look up some old franchise on Wikipedia so you can make up some easy brand recognition money. When you make a reboot, you have a duty to make sure the game stays faithful to the core elements that made the previous games great, because if you can't do that, there's no point in rebooting it at all.
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