• The Depression Chat - Symptoms, Assistance, Medicines and More.
    2,595 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Evilan;32014713]What is it with people trying to pick internet fights with those who try to help? [/QUOTE] I think it's best we just ignore the kid from now on. Take a glance at his ban history, and it explains why he is acting this way. And I agree 100% with what you're saying about attaching negative thoughts to depression/suicide is a good thing, and is overall what helped me in the long run.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014764]And I agree 100% with what you're saying about attaching negative thoughts to depression/suicide is a good thing, and is overall what helped me in the long run.[/QUOTE] you're reinforcing the stigma by attaching negative thoughts to depression/suicide [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Evilan;32014713]I learned a long time ago that playing the victim of depression is only reinforcing it's hold over you.[/QUOTE] sounds like you're doing better now. if you were still in a state of severe depression and having suicidal thoughts constantly then I doubt you'd be saying the same thing.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32014792]you're reinforcing the stigma by attaching negative thoughts to depression/suicide[/QUOTE] It's one of the easiest ways to get over suicidal thoughts/treat it. Get over it, that's just how it works in some peoples cases. The issue with the stigma about suicide is that it holds people back from getting help. The stigma should only steer people away from the thought of suicide, not discourage them. The stigma towards suicide is a double-edged sword unfortunately. It amazes me how you try to make attaching negativity to depression/suicide a bad-thing. Are you suggesting that we look at suicide and depression as a positive aspect of the human condition?
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014824]It's one of the easiest ways to get over suicidal thoughts/treat it. Get over it, that's just how it works in some peoples cases.[/QUOTE] how the fuck is that one of the easiest ways to get over suicidal thoughts/treat them? if anything, it would do the opposite because you're reinforcing the stigma. do you know WHY many people don't seek treatment for depression? because of the STIGMA associated with it. they may feel embarrassed or think that they'll lose friends and their job, etc. if society teaches you to think that depression is a NEGATIVE thing then people will be embarrassed to seek help for it and try to repress it. [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014824]Are you suggesting that we look at suicide and depression as a positive aspect of the human condition?[/QUOTE] nice straw man
[QUOTE=JDK721;32014904]how the fuck is that one of the easiest ways to get over suicidal thoughts/treat them? if anything, it would do the opposite because you're reinforcing the stigma. do you know WHY many people don't seek treatment for depression? because of the STIGMA associated with it. they may feel embarrassed or think that they'll lose friends and their job, etc. if society teaches you to think that depression is a NEGATIVE thing then people will be embarrassed to seek help for it and try to repress it. [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] nice straw man[/QUOTE] There's two sides of a stigma, a personal and social side. A personal perspective is more helpful and healthy, it helps you attach a negative emotion to something, helping you avoid it. (this is basic shit and follows the basic theory of "Behaviorism", which is your behavior is steered more by positive stimuli than negative stimuli. IE you tend to avoid things that you see as negative). While a social perspective is more counter-productive than productive, as you have mentioned. I am not disagreeing with the fact that the stigma can hold people back from getting help, but if the person attaches a stigma on depression/suicide themselves then it can become a tool or a catalyst in helping them recover (evident in Evilan's case, and from my own experience). Again I pose the question when I examine your post "Are you suggesting that we look at suicide and depression as a positive aspect of the human condition?"
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014993]There's two sides of a stigma, a personal and social side. A personal perspective is more helpful and healthy, it helps you attach a negative emotion to something, helping you avoid it. (this is basic shit and follows the basic theory of "Behaviorism", which is your behavior is steered more by positive stimuli than negative stimuli. IE you tend to avoid things that you see as negative). While a social perspective is more counter-productive than productive, as you have mentioned. I am not disagreeing with the fact that the stigma can hold people back from getting help, but if the person attaches a stigma on depression/suicide themselves then it can become a tool or a catalyst in helping them recover (evident in Evilan's case, and from my own experience).[/QUOTE] sources? [QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014993](evident in Evilan's case, and from my own experience).[/QUOTE] anecdotal stories don't count
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015031]sources? anecdotal stories don't count[/QUOTE] Regardless of Evilan's and I's story, it still holds firm. How do you not know the basic concept that people avoid negative things. That's a basic fundamental concept of emotions and their affects on behavior. My source is BF. Skinner's theories and experiments on behavior, but I am applying it in a broader sense. Bro, it's gotten to the point to were you can't even refute my arguments, you're now using the "show me your sources" technique, which is a major cop-out. I've been in debate and pulling the "sources" card is almost a clear sign of "OH SHIT I HAVE NOTHING TO REFUTE WITH! BETTER TRY SOMETHING QUICK!" So with that in mind, I bid you a good day, later sir, hopefully someday you will stop being a troll/hypocrite.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015081]Regardless of Evilan's and I's story, it still holds firm. How do you not know the basic concept that people avoid negative things. That's a basic fundamental concept of emotions and their affects on behavior. My source is BF. Skinner's theories and experiments on behavior, but I am applying it in a broader sense.[/QUOTE] where did I ever say or imply that I didn't know that people avoid negative things? now please show me some sources backing up all the statements in your previous post. anecdotal stories don't count as evidence.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32014792]sounds like you're doing better now. if you were still in a state of severe depression and having suicidal thoughts constantly then I doubt you'd be saying the same thing.[/QUOTE] You're right, I wouldn't be saying that then, but because i got over my cognitive limitations I am able to say in hindsight now that attaching a negative stigma to something that isn't beneficial to recovery works. It's a basic element taught by most therapists (including mine) and by many famous psychologist authors. I'll jot down some names for you Anthony Robbins, Orsille Roemer, Christine Palmer, etc.
[QUOTE=Evilan;32015166]You're right, I wouldn't be saying that then, but because i got over my cognitive limitations I am able to say in hindsight now that attaching a negative stigma to something that isn't beneficial to recovery works. It's a basic element taught by most therapists (including mine) and by many famous psychologist authors. I'll jot down some names for you Anthony Robbins, Orsille Roemer, Christine Palmer, etc.[/QUOTE] show me some articles, etc.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015152]where did I ever say or imply that I didn't know that people avoid negative things? now please show me some sources backing up all the statements in your previous post. anecdotal stories don't count as evidence.[/QUOTE] "LOL SOURCES PLEASE! I AM BACK INTO A CORNER" I already provided you my sources. The theory stated by B.F skinner, one of the most influential psychologists in history stated that Negative behavior de-enfornces a behavior while positivity reenforces a behavior. You can go use google, or open a psychology text book, or better yet, go take a psych course if you want to find my source.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015204]"LOL SOURCES PLEASE! I AM BACK INTO A CORNER" I already provided you my sources. The theory stated by B.F skinner, one of the most influential psychologists in history stated that Negative behavior de-enfornces a behavior while positivity reenforces a behavior. You can go use google, or open a psychology text book, or better yet, go take a psych course if you want to find my source.[/QUOTE] learn what the burden of proof is please. if you're going to state something as a fact without posting any supporting documents at all, don't get all pissy when someone asks you for some.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015203]show me some articles, etc.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ you're desperate. You're fucking sad bro, sad. You're stoned wall dude, just stoned wall. Use google, look them up.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015203]show me some articles, etc.[/QUOTE] Dude, I'm not your nanny. I gave you some names so the least you can do is look up their works.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015216]learn what the burden of proof is please. if you're going to state something as a fact without posting any supporting documents at all, don't get all pissy when someone asks you for some.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015216]learn what the burden of proof is please. if you're going to state something as a fact without posting any supporting documents at all, don't get all pissy when someone asks you for some.[/QUOTE] I didn't know there was a burden of proof for this, it's common sense.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32014993] Again I pose the question when I examine your post "Are you suggesting that we look at suicide and depression as a positive aspect of the human condition?"[/QUOTE] Yes. Depression and suicide have always been a part of humanity. They're natural. If we tell depressed and suicidal people that they're wrong they're only going to hate themselves more. Instead we need to recognize that depression is a type of pain, and pain is the body's way of telling you that something is wrong. Notice the distinction here - the pain isn't wrong. Something else is. Find that, solve that, help the person. Your approach is damaging and frankly, offensive. You're contributing to the depression held by people in here who only want to get help. Fuck off.
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015236][/QUOTE] WE gave you some names, we don't feel like holding your hand. [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Anthony+Robbins[/url] [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=B.F+Skinner[/url] [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Orsille+Roemer[/url] [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ChristineChristine+Palmer[/url]
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015247]I didn't know there was a burden of proof for this, it's common sense.[/QUOTE] nope, it's not. an example of common sense would be you see a car going down the road, so you assume there's a person driving it. you stated something as a scientific fact. you have to have research and evidence to state such extraordinary claims. you can't just state something like that without any evidence at all, get mad when someone asks for a source, and then say "it's common sense!"
[QUOTE=JDK721;32015294]nope, it's not. an example of common sense would be you see a car going down the road, so you assume there's a person driving it. you stated something as a scientific fact. you have to have research and evidence to state such extraordinary claims. you can't just state something like that without any evidence at all, get mad when someone asks for a source, and then say "it's common sense!"[/QUOTE] Read my above post, click on the links. read some articles about the people listed by Evilan and my boy skinner's theories. Enjoy. There's your proof.
How do you get over anxiety attacks? I've become quite agoraphobic lately. I want to start hanging with friends again but I'm kinda afraid to leave, lest I get another panic attack while I'm out somewhere.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32015268] Your approach is damaging and frankly, offensive. You're contributing to the depression held by people in here who only want to get help. Fuck off.[/QUOTE] 1: you're a prick (hur) 2: How the fuck is viewing depression/suicide as a negative thing make me a horrible person. Zeke you strike me as someone who has a clouded view of reality. Just because they're natural doesn't mean we can't attach an emotion to it. As Evilan said, it's common in therapy for a therapist to try to help you attach an emotion to an action to help steer you away or towards it. So I guess, me, Evilian, and some therapists out there who use techniques like that are horrible people, who contribute to depression.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32015268] Instead we need to recognize that depression is a type of pain, and pain is the body's way of telling you that something is wrong. Notice the distinction here - the pain isn't wrong. Something else is. Find that, solve that, help the person. [/QUOTE] Still want to know what you think of this, ScoutKing When someone breaks their arm they don't stigmatize the pain to make it go away, they fix the damn arm
[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;32015376]How do you get over anxiety attacks? I've become quite agoraphobic lately. I want to start hanging with friends again but I'm kinda afraid to leave, lest I get another panic attack while I'm out somewhere.[/QUOTE] I know this is probably the worst advice I've given, but I know some people treat anxiety with weed. Helps them relax. Try some coping techniques, carry around an ipod with some of your favorite songs, if you're having some anxiety issues, listen to your ipod and shut out the world. That's the best I can offer up. [editline]30th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32015416]Still want to know what you think of this, ScoutKing When someone breaks their arm they don't stigmatize the pain to make it go away, they fix the damn arm[/QUOTE] I just replied, Yee prick. [editline]30th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32015416]Still want to know what you think of this, ScoutKing When someone breaks their arm they don't stigmatize the pain to make it go away, they fix the damn arm[/QUOTE] It's a lot easier to fix an arm than to cure depression. For one a broken arm is a physical injury you dipshit. Depression is a complex issue, you can't just slap a splint and a cast on it and call it a day. (I am in no mood to be nice or optimistic towards you now, so in your own words "fuck off") [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - JohnnyMo1))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015437] It's a lot easier to fix an arm than to cure depression. For one a broken arm is a physical injury you dipshit. Depression is a complex issue, you can't just slap a splint and a cast on it and call it a day. (I am in no mood to be nice or optimistic towards you now, so in your own words "fuck off")[/QUOTE] They're both types of pain. Your suggestion to fix depression is to go after the depression itself instead of what's causing it, be it an internal biological thing or an external cause. You're [b]wrong[/b]. I've heard many times that I'm wrong and illogical for being depressed and it only made me more depressed. Nobody seems to care why, all they care about is letting me know how wrong I am.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32015480]They're both types of pain. Your suggestion to fix depression is to go after the depression itself instead of what's causing it, be it an internal biological thing or an external cause. You're [b]wrong[/b]. I've heard many times that I'm wrong and illogical for being depressed and it only made me more depressed. Nobody seems to care why.[/QUOTE] wow, you've really never read my posts previously in this thread. I always say to address what's causing it, If you go back 2 pages you will probably see me arguing exactly that. But attaching a negative stigma is a "Tool or catalyst in helping you recover" Where did i say that attaching a personal stigma to depression is the godly cure? I've use the words "help, a tool, a catalyst" do you know what those words mean, or do I need to do a "google for you" too?
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015510]But attaching a negative stigma is a "Tool or catalyst in helping you recover"[/QUOTE] source needed linking to a wikipedia article about a psychologist doesn't count. show me a fucking study, etc. that supports your statement.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32015480] I've heard many times that I'm wrong and illogical for being depressed and it only made me more depressed. Nobody seems to care why, all they care about is letting me know how wrong I am.[/QUOTE] To be frank, I can see why, you're a dick it seems. You can't even have a respectful argument, if I met your ass I wouldn't be so thrilled to help either. Congrats, you've managed to piss me off with the way you acted in the last page. That's a real feat that not even JDK accomplished, and he manged to be mature, so kudos to him, piss off to you bro. [editline]30th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;32015522]source needed linking to a wikipedia article about a psychologist doesn't count. show me a fucking study, etc. that supports your statement.[/QUOTE] I wish I could hand you my AP psychology book through my computer, but I cant. Just find a link that doesn't go to wikipedia. I am busy juggling other things than to be looking up things for you.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015510]wow, you've really never read my posts previously in this thread. I always say to address what's causing it, If you go back 2 pages you will probably see me arguing exactly that. But attaching a negative stigma is a "Tool or catalyst in helping you recover" Where did i say that attaching a personal stigma to depression is the godly cure? I've use the words "help, a tool, a catalyst" do you know what those words mean, or do I need to do a "google for you" too?[/QUOTE] Do you not know what stigma does to a person? Why the hell do you think depressed people should have to feel bad about what's wrong with them? Why do you insist on posting in this thread when your only goal appears to be making people's depression worse? You're a troll of the worst kind, akin to the type that posts flashing gifs on an epilepsy forum [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ScoutKing;32015533]To be frank, I can see why, you're a dick it seems. You can't even have a respectful argument, if I met your ass I wouldn't be so thrilled to help either. Congrats, you've managed to piss me off with the way you acted in the last page. That's a real feat that not even JDK accomplished, and he manged to be mature, so kudos to him, piss off to you bro.[/QUOTE] I told you to fuck off [b]once[/b], and even apologized in a private message over it. You're the one throwing a temper tantrum in each and every post and then acting smug about it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32015574]Do you not know what stigma does to a person? Why the hell do you think depressed people should have to feel bad about what's wrong with them? Why do you insist on posting in this thread when your only goal appears to be making people's depression worse? You're a troll of the worst kind, akin to the type that posts flashing gifs on an epilepsy forum[/QUOTE] Who said you had to feel bad about being depressed? Looking at depression in a negative spotlight is motivational to some degrees. Only you can come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with you based off my beliefs. Stop trying to blame other peoples personal beliefs for the way that you feel. I've tried to have a respectful and mature argument with you, and I even said no hard feelings and tried to tell you that there was no hostilities in a PM earlier, but felt the need to spit that shit back, insult me and act like a dick. Why do you feel the need to vilify people who don't look at depression as a positive thing? Should we stop looking at disease as a bad thing? Oh no the stigma against being sick may stop people from going to the doctor to get anti-biotics! You need to stop blaming peoples opinions on depression as a cause of some of your depression. It's a cop-out. Here's some advice, stop letting people's opinions affect you.
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