I want to run for Prime Minister of England, yet I think my ideas may be challenged.
328 replies, posted
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608003]You cannot satisfy everyone, it's a fact.[/QUOTE]
Of course, you can't save everyone. But we can help those that deserve help.
Despite agreeing some of the points rowtree brings up , I must include that you should never call a potion of your populace stupid, in a proper society people should be all respected as equals. I find it also mildly comical that most people find it easy to call his views "dumb" and take snipes at him but fail to put forward their own ideas as to what they think should be done. Kudos to him for putting is ideas out there and taking the flak.
[QUOTE=Mabus;25608052]Despite agreeing some of the points rowtree brings up , I must include that you should never call a potion of your populace stupid, in a proper society people should be all respected as equals. I find it also mildly comical that most people find it easy to call his views "dumb" and take snipes at him but fail to put forward their own ideas as to what they think should be done. Kudos to him for putting is ideas out there and taking the flak.[/QUOTE]
Oh don't worry, I believe we are all equal. And I don't mean stupid as an insult. But rather, they work, and they don't have the problems of having to help society, those that are intelligent are burdened with problems so everyone else can rest easy. The intelligent help the stupid so the stupid can rest easy. The stupid are blessed with the lack of knowledge to realize what's happening.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608062]So those that live up to your subjective standard are more human than those that fail?[/QUOTE] Those that fail are still cared for. They are educated untill they can pass it. Nobody is better than anyone. This test is mearly there to prove education, and knowlage. If they fail it, which they most likely won't, then they are educated until they can pass it, or they can refuse education, and drive themself to extinction.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25607966]I'm not stating that all of them are stupid, far from it. Most people in the workforce are smart people, who would pass the test with no problems, the others that are in the workforce aren't as smart, but still do their job and do it well. They too would pass the test. Then there are the minority that refuse to learn, and do not respect authority. They are the ones that would not pass it.
[b]again non-intelligent people can have intelligent offspring. the idea of a test is both Draconian and unneeded.[/b]
Not at all. They will still be able to live, they will still be fine, they can return to school, and learn, or not. Like I said most people will pass this test, and those that don't. We will see to it full well that they can pass it.
[b]Say Bob has an undiagnosed mental disorder. He performs well in some capacities, but in others he doesn't. Bob, a perfectly useful and respectable person, fails the test.
there are plenty of reasons why you can fail a test and still want to help and assist.[/b]
My plan is existant, and is sound. But it is when you believe it is wrong, that problems arise out of something that isn't there. You say that it is almost impossible to make this non biased. I agree, everything is biased to some degree.
[b]Your plan is that you throw together some basic test that will be dumbed down so all but the people that apparently "don't care" are thrown out, based on the inane idea that unintelligent people have unintelligent offspring. Because the test is watered down so supposedly "anyone can pass it", it fails it's intended purpose.[/b]
It's hardly unlimited if I can't stop it. I could do whatever I want, but i'm not going to.
[b] You don't know that. Again, you have no concrete things stoping you from being a total ass whether you think you are being one or not. Everything is up to your nationalistic, subjective, and flawed judgement.[/b]
There is nothing preventing me. Except this country. I could do what I want, but I don't want to. What I want is this country to be better. My arguements stand up, because if you look past the "Dictators always fail" part, then they stand soundly. I stand, always, for the good of Humanity and Britain.
[b]Stalin killed tons of people for the good of Russia
Hitler killed thousands of Jews for the good of Germany
what is stopping you and your flawed logic.[/b][/QUOTE]
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mabus;25608052][b]Despite agreeing some of the points rowtree brings up[/b] , I must include that you should never call a potion of your populace stupid, in a proper society people should be all respected as equals. I find it also mildly comical that most people find it easy to call his views "dumb" and take snipes at him but [b]fail to put forward their own ideas as to what they think should be done. [/b]Kudos to him for putting is ideas out there and taking the flak.[/QUOTE]
irrelevant. our views on the issue have no bearing on our counter-arguments to his.
You had valid points until you threw in that rather silly last one bagminge, it just sound like your out to get him by throwing out straw-man points.
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608153][editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[Quote]
[B]again non-intelligent people can have intelligent offspring. the idea of a test is both Draconian and needed. [/quote]
[/B]Exactly, it is needed.
[QUOTE][B]Say Bob has an undiagnosed mental disorder. He performs well in some capacities, but in others he doesn't. Bob, a perfectly useful and respectable person, fails the test. [/quote]
[/B]It is a problem that can happen. It's a tragic one, and I wish that it would never happen. But we cannot do anything about it. Even if they fail, they can still get a job, they can still assist. And if they can work, and they do it well, then I don't see why they can't be exempt from the test.
[QUOTE][B]Your plan is that you throw together some basic test that will be dumbed down so all but the people that apparently "don't care" are thrown out, based on the inane idea that unintelligent people have unintelligent offspring. Because the test is watered down so supposedly "anyone can pass it", it fails it's intended purpose.[/quote]
[/B]This is true, but it primarly works as a Scare-Tactic, so that people will learn.
[QUOTE][B]You don't know that. Again, you have no concrete things stoping you from being a total ass whether you think you are being one or not. Everything is up to you nationalistic, subjective, and flawed judgement.[/B] [/QUOTE] This is true. There is nothing stopping me from doing it. It's just something that will happen. If it does, it does. I will try not to do it. But that's all I can give you. My word.
[QUOTE][B]Stalin killed tons of people for the good of Russia
Hitler killed thousands of Jews for the good of Germany
what is stopping you and your flawed logic. [/quote]
[/B]Who do you expect me to kill? Those that fail the test, if they fail the test, and refuse to learn, then I don't need to kill them. They are killing themselves. I know Un-intellegent people don't always produce Un-Intellegent Offsprings. But when they refuse to learn even a simple thing. Then i'm not saying it will be better, but it's the only thing that we can do.
irrelevant. our views on the issue have no bearing on our counter-arguments to his.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mabus;25608250]You had valid points until you threw in that rather silly last one bagminge, it just sound like your out to get him by throwing out straw-man points.[/QUOTE]
strawman is making up an easier argument to refute than the one being presented. his argument was that his somehow superior judgement and nationalism will keep him from being corrupt. my point is that people can do horrible things and be corrupt while still thinking what they are doing is justified.
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608261]They're called exams, and we already have them, what's your point.
If we don't live by your rules i.e. "you must be like I tell you", we have no chance at succeeding in our lives, so any person who defies your idiocy has no chance at having a bright future?
Also, what your "utopia" does, is that it creates robots, without individuality, because we all have to live up to the same standard.
And utopia is doomed to fail, you cannot have a utopia. People need to defy, it's in our nature.[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to dictate peoples lives fully. They are still in control of their own lives. Criminals and such will still exist. But with heavier penalties for crimes, then it will decrease, or increase. Who knows. I can't predict the future, but I can change it. They don't have to live up to the same standard, because there are many ways to become exempt from the test, so that people can breed. Chances are, if this test is put in play, most people will pass it, rendering it unneeded, so what's the problem?
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608300]strawman is making up an easier argument to refute than the one being presented. his argument was that his somehow superior judgement and nationalism will keep him from being corrupt. my point is that people can do horrible things and be corrupt while still thinking what they are doing is justified.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, and again, all I can give you is my word. I can't come up with a counter argument to it, because I don't know what will happen, nor do you.
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608357]The problem is that you don't change anything.[/QUOTE]
Don't I? Maybe you're right. But the reasoning behind it was to gain a more united workforce. Which is my main priority, to get Britain out of the Shitter.
[quote]Exactly, it is needed.
[/quote]
That was a typo. Way to dodge the argument.
[quote]It is a problem that can happen. It's a tragic one, and I wish that it would never happen. But we cannot do anything about it. Even if they fail, they can still get a job, they can still assist. And if they can work, and they do it well, then I don't see why they can't be exempt from the test.
[/quote]
According to your logic, they can't be exempt from the test because they still aren't smart enough to somehow produce smart offspring. your test is flawed, you admit it is flawed, and yet you still roll with it.
[quote]
This is true, but it primarly works as a Scare-Tactic, so that people will learn. [/quote]
Way to backpedal. You were originally saying that the test was intended to weed out unintelligent people and people who don't care, not you say it's all show and just meant to scare people, and therefore dodge my argument.
[quote]
Who do you expect me to kill? Those that fail the test, if they fail the test, and refuse to learn, then I don't need to kill them. They are killing themselves. I know Un-intellegent people don't always produce Un-Intellegent Offsprings. But when they refuse to learn even a simple thing. Then i'm not saying it will be better, but it's the only thing that we can do.
irrelevant. our views on the issue have no bearing on our counter-arguments to his.[/quote]
So when people "refuse" to learn something, the obvious answer is to tie their tubes. This makes no sense.
also to clarify my point, I meant that people can still do horrible things and be utterly corrupt and still think what they are doing is justified.
I will move to Britain if you manage to pay off the debt.
You have my word.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608335]I'm not trying to dictate peoples lives fully. They are still in control of their own lives. Criminals and such will still exist. But with heavier penalties for crimes, then it will decrease, or increase. Who knows. I can't predict the future, but I can change it. They don't have to live up to the same standard, because there are many ways to become exempt from the test, so that people can breed. Chances are, if this test is put in play, most people will pass it, rendering it unneeded, so what's the problem?
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
I understand that, and again, all I can give you is my word. I can't come up with a counter argument to it, because I don't know what will happen, nor do you.[/QUOTE]
that is exactly why your plan fails. your word means little to nothing, and to say you will pinky-swear not to be corrupt and have zero safeguards is exactly why you shouldn't be elected into power.
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608426]that is exactly why your plan fails. your word means little to nothing, and to say you will pinky-swear not to be corrupt and have zero safeguards is exactly why you shouldn't be elected into power.[/QUOTE]
What do you expect me to do? I can't predict the future, you're assuming that i'm going to do something, and refuse to even consider the possibility that I'm not. You want me to prove to you that I won't, but I can't. I just can't. Because all I can do is promise you that I won't do it. Alright, Safeguards. I can't think of a safeguard. If you can think of one. Please, go ahead. Tell me.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608443]The problem is that you don't know how anything works. You just think that if you have absolute control you can shape the world into perfection. Except you can't, because that's not how it works.[/QUOTE]
I know that's not how it works. I'm all for idealistic thinking, but not when it comes to actual things. What i'm trying to do is first, get out of debt, or atleast to a reasonable place where we can run the country moderatly. With a more unified workforce, we can produce more things, and sell more things.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608471]What do you expect me to do? I can't predict the future, you're assuming that i'm going to do something, and refuse to even consider the possibility that I'm not. You want me to prove to you that I won't, but I can't. I just can't. Because all I can do is promise you that I won't do it. Alright, Safeguards. I can't think of a safeguard. If you can think of one. Please, go ahead. Tell me.[/QUOTE]
hmmm I dunno maybe not having an incredibly flawed dictatorship and instead moving to something like the three-branch government system as seen in the U.S. seems like a good idea to me. the very idea of a dictatorship is flawed. the reason I discredit the idea of you promising not to be corrupt is because words mean nothing. you may very well not become corrupt, but going into something crossing your fingers hoping the most obvious outcome won't happen is simply inane when governing a country.
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608529]Google inflation[/QUOTE]
I already understand, the more money we make, the less it's valued, etic.
And I understand how a Dictatorship is flawed, and that a Dictatorship may not work. But I believe that my ideas could work, if approached in a different sence.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608576]I already understand, the more money we make, the less it's valued, etic.
And I understand how a Dictatorship is flawed, and that a Dictatorship may not work. But I believe that my ideas could work, if approached in a different sence.[/QUOTE]
You keep on admitting your ideas are flawed, yet you refuse to reevaluate them.
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608601]So you're saying your idea is wrong[/QUOTE]
Not at all. I'm saying that a Dictatorship is flawed, yes. But I feel that if done with a Dictatorship, or something like it. It could very well work.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608618]You keep on admitting your ideas are flawed, yet you refuse to reevaluate them.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say they are flawed, I said that if approached differently, they could still work. A dictatorship is flawed, but it can work.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608624]Not at all. I'm saying that a Dictatorship is flawed, yes. But I feel that if done with a Dictatorship, or something like it. It could very well work.[/QUOTE]
I have a feeling you keep on saying your ideas are flawed just to try and make the opposing argument shut up.
you know, when a normal person thinks their beliefs are flawed, the reevaluate them.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608624]Not at all. I'm saying that a Dictatorship is flawed, yes. But I feel that if done with a Dictatorship, or something like it. It could very well work.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
I didn't say they are flawed, I said that if approached differently, they could still work. A dictatorship is flawed, but it can work.[/QUOTE]
You just said it isn't flawed and then it's flawed in the [b]same fucking sentence[/b]
Ah the crazy dictator approach, classic but I like it.
I am going to re-evaluate them. I stick with them, however, because I feel that they can work, and will work. I'm not trying to get you to shut up. And I appreciate your views. But you constantly criticize my ideas, and refuse to provide your own. A dictatorship is flawed, but it is not necessarily bad. Just because there hasn't been a successful one, doesn't mean that there can't be.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608672]You just said it isn't flawed and then it's flawed in the [b]same fucking sentence[/b][/QUOTE]
I said that Dictatorship is flawed. Not my ideas. My ideas are suited for a Dictatorship, but they are not the dictatorship themselves, if that makes any sense.
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608729]This thread is depressing.[/QUOTE]
How so? I'm stating my ideas on a better future, and I believe that they can work.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608694][b]I am going to re-evaluate them. I stick with them, however, because I feel that they can work, and will work.[/b] I'm not trying to get you to shut up. And I appreciate your views. But you constantly criticize my ideas, and [b]refuse to provide your own.[/b] A dictatorship is flawed, but it is not necessarily bad. [b]Just because there hasn't been a successful one, doesn't mean that there can't be.[/b][/QUOTE]
1. No your not. You admit time and time again your ideas are flawed, you even concede with the opposing argument on multiple occasions, and yet you stick with your same, unchanged arguments.
2. Irrelevant. My ideas have no bearing on my counterargument to yours.
3. All odds point to a dictatorship failing massively sorry
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608752]1. No your not. You admit time and time again your ideas are flawed, you even concede with the opposing argument on multiple occasions, and yet you stick with your same, unchanged arguments.
2. Irrelevant. My ideas have no bearing on my counterargument to yours.
3. All odds point to a dictatorship failing massively sorry[/QUOTE]
1. I stick with them because I believe in them. They are flawed. But I am sticking with them and starting to change them.
2. But you so clearly believe that i'm wrong and you're right.
3. Hardly.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608769]They don't.
Trust me.[/QUOTE]
Forget the whole Birth Control, what's bad about the rest?
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608776]1. I stick with them because I believe in them. They are flawed. But I am sticking with them and starting to change them.
[b] Tell me how you have seriously reconsidered and/or changed your views.[/b]
2. But you so clearly believe that i'm wrong and you're right.
[b]No, I just believe you are wrong. The inherent truth of my beliefs does not make your argument any more or less credible.[/b]
3. Hardly.
[b]I would post my argument for why a dictatorship would fail a couple posts back but my scroll wheel is getting tired[/b]
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
Forget the whole Birth Control, what's bad about the rest?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608821][/QUOTE]
[Quote}[B]Tell me how you have seriously reconsidered and/or changed your views.[/quote]
[/B]Simple, this whole Birth Control thing. I'm debating whether to keep it. I'm going to fully update my ideas for and present them around my local area.
[quote] [B]No, I just believe you are wrong.[/quote]
[/B]
You believe that i'm wrong, because you believe dictators are always going to fail? They're not always going to fail. They can go well.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=YoMother;25608823]You know nothing of economy[/QUOTE]
I'll admit that part wasn't the best. But it's true, in a sence. We're in debt, we're loosing money, and we all are having to suffer for it.
nearly 8 pages of people taking rowtree seriously
let's go for 40 more guys
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25608901]nearly 8 pages of people taking rowtree seriously
let's go for 40 more guys[/QUOTE]
I am being serious.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;25608856]
[B]Simple, this whole Birth Control thing. I'm debating whether to keep it. I'm going to fully update my ideas for and present them around my local area.[/b]
So now without birth control, it seems your policy is just "make me dictator I can do this" and something trivial about removing benefits to people who are injured. Good to know you thought this out.
[B]
You believe that i'm wrong, because you believe dictators are always going to fail? They're not always going to fail. They can go well.[/b]
Not really. The idea that all power of a country is put into one person has inherent abuse due to that person's subjectivity and prejudices.
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
I'll admit that part wasn't the best. But it's true, in a sence. We're in debt, we're loosing money, and we all are having to suffer for it.[/QUOTE]
[editline]24th October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25608901]nearly 8 pages of people taking rowtree seriously
let's go for 40 more guys[/QUOTE]
but disproving nationalists is fun on a bun
[QUOTE=BagMinge104;25608931]
So now without birth control, it seems your policy is just "make me dictator I can do this" and something trivial about removing benefits to people who are injured. Good to know you thought this out. [/QUOTE]
Like I said, it's a work in Progress. It's not finalized yet.
[quote]
[URL="http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=25608856#post25608856"]Rowtree posted:[/URL]
[B]Simple, this whole Birth Control thing. I'm debating whether to keep it. I'm going to fully update my ideas for and present them around my local area.[/B]
So now without birth control, it seems your policy is just "make me dictator I can do this" and something trivial about removing benefits to people who are injured. Good to know you thought this out.
[B]
You believe that i'm wrong, because you believe dictators are always going to fail? They're not always going to fail. They can go well.[/B]
Not really. The idea that all power of a country is put into one person has inherent abuse due to that person's subjectivity and prejudices. [/quote]A dictatorship can cause problems. Most of the time will, but sometimes it can work.
I'll admit my ideas aren't full focused. I will focus them.
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