[QUOTE=Zerokateo;38383986]Smaller mag capacity, older firing system that isn't efficient as some newer ones. Has a slightly higher chance of jamming compared to newer pistols ( SLIGHTLY ). Its a very nice gun but if I'm carrying a gun I want one that has a higher mag capacity and higher chance of firing. I do want a 1911 but not really as a carry gun, just sort of a plinker.
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
And most 1911's have a break in period, I don't want to break in my gun before I can properly use it.[/QUOTE]
As far as efficiency, the 1911 is by far one of the more simple designs out there. The trigger pull is by far the most natural and efficient pull available. Also, no good 1911 will require a "break-in" period. The only company I know of that currently has a documented break-in period is Kimber, and that's mostly due to crappy QC on their part. The original Kimbers back in the early 90s did not have documented break-in periods.
To provide an example, I took my stock Colt Rail Gun, and I pushed almost 1500 rounds through it in a two day session, and didn't clean it until afterwards. I used Colt mags, Wilson mags, Springfield mags, and Chip McCormick mags. I used a mix of Winchester white box FMJ and JHP, Remington UMC FMJ, Federal FMJs, Federal HST +P JHPs, and some FMJ hand loads at standard and +P pressures. Not once in the entire two day session of shooting did I experience ANY failure. This includes FTF and FTE. The gun functioned like it was supposed to, and I even intentionally limp-wristed at several different intervals.
Now, this was by far the most extensive thing I have ever done to a 1911, but I've personally used and seen many other brands perform very similar. My Springfield Operator for example, when I bought it, I went straight to shooting boxes of JHPs of various brands, and never had an issue. Out of the ten plus 1911s I have personally owned, the only one I ever had a feed issue with was my Kimber Desert Warrior, and it only experienced one FTE in the first 300 rounds.
Even saying all of this, I know that 1911s are not perfect, but they are by no means out-dated or out-performed by other handguns like Glocks, XDs, Sigs, Berettas, USPs, etc. Since we are comparing to Glocks, Glock was notorious for their ejection issue. I experienced the issue on my 30SF even. Getting pelted in the face with brass was not fun at all. Also, Glocks have just as much of a chance at having FTFs or FTEs than any other gun does.
As far as comparing mag capacities, that is apples and oranges. Glocks, XDs, etc, are designed to be double-stacked, therefore their frames are considerably thicker. 1911s, Sigs, etc, are designed to be single-stacked, therefore their frames are considerably thinner. I can understand basing your decision because you want a larger magazine capacity, but the smaller capacity of the single stack magazines do not make them inferior. It's a different design, with a different purpose.
EDIT: Just a little something to add. I know it's been mentioned before, because I have seen it, but if the 1911 really was old, outperformed, or prone to more failures than other designs, I highly doubt MARSOC would have just purchased 12,000 new Colts to be issued. Going through the history of the MEU(SOC) pistol itself, there are frames in the USMC armory with over 500,000 rounds fired through them. Strictly speaking, the design is rugged, reliable, and will last you a lifetime.
[QUOTE=Zerokateo;38383986]Smaller mag capacity, older firing system that isn't efficient as some newer ones. Has a slightly higher chance of jamming compared to newer pistols ( SLIGHTLY ). Its a very nice gun but if I'm carrying a gun I want one that has a higher mag capacity and higher chance of firing. I do want a 1911 but not really as a carry gun, just sort of a plinker.[/Quote]
1911 carry gun master race, that single stack mag makes a 1911, especially a commander sized one, an ideal carry gun. No higher chance of jamming, there just isn't. PERIOD. And as far as mag capacity, it's like this (for me at least) if you can't hit it with 6-8 rounds, then you don't deserve to hit it at all.
!!!!!!!!!IRRELEVANT PAGE KING CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6z8atxgwI&feature=g-u-u[/media]
[QUOTE=Skullivan21;38384767][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6z8atxgwI&feature=g-u-u[/media][/QUOTE]
Oh my god that thumb in the thumbnail
[QUOTE=Skullivan21;38384767]1911 carry gun master race, that single stack mag makes a 1911, especially a commander sized one, an ideal carry gun. No higher chance of jamming, there just isn't. PERIOD. And as far as mag capacity, it's like this (for me at least) if you can't hit it with 6-8 rounds, then you don't deserve to hit it at all.
!!!!!!!!!IRRELEVANT PAGE KING CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6z8atxgwI&feature=g-u-u[/media][/QUOTE]
I can hit the target with just 1, its the fact that I don't want to have to reload more because of a smaller mag count, Especially with hogs. The less you have to reload with multiple targets, the better.
[QUOTE=Zerokateo;38383986]Smaller mag capacity, older firing system that isn't efficient as some newer ones. Has a slightly higher chance of jamming compared to newer pistols ( SLIGHTLY ). Its a very nice gun but if I'm carrying a gun I want one that has a higher mag capacity and higher chance of firing. I do want a 1911 but not really as a carry gun, just sort of a plinker.
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
And most 1911's have a break in period, I don't want to break in my gun before I can properly use it.[/QUOTE]
If I'm understanding you correctly, you wanted a 10mm to have for hunting / defense against hogs, correct? And you stated that it would really just be for popping one or two into them so you can have enough time to get to your ATV if shit hits the fan. So having twelve or fifteen or however many 10mm rounds they can stuff into a G20 mag isn't going to matter. If you don't stop a charging hog in one or two shots, three max, you've got a serious problem and the extra ten or whatever you've got left isn't going to matter. Something else to consider, full size Glock frames are thick. By no means are they impossible to hold for smaller framed individuals, they're just uncomfortable, and if you're going to be staking your well being on a firearm, you definitely want it to be a comfortable fit.
I've got decent sized hands and I still hate a full size Glock frame, I'd only go with a SF if I went full size Glock. Obviously this is going to vary from person to person, and I have no idea how big your hands are, I'm just pointing it out. Hunting / defending against hogs, in the caliber you want, I'd definitely say a 1911 is up your alley. Don't discount the design just because it's old and doesn't have a double stack wonder mag!
[QUOTE=Zerokateo;38385015]I can hit the target with just 1, its the fact that I don't want to have to reload more because of a smaller mag count, Especially with hogs. The less you have to reload with multiple targets, the better.[/QUOTE]
If you have more than eight hogs charging you, you have a much bigger issue than mag capacity. lol
BTW, Hogs are very timid by nature, and only charge when they have no other option. Even pinned hogs will run from a gun shot, especially one as loud as a 10mm. The main purpose of a handgun for hogs is when you come up on what you think is a dead hog, and it ends up being wounded instead. This happens a lot, and accounts for most attacks on humans. The wounded animal gets spooked by the human, and then they attack. Remember, hogs won't know you are there, and won't know you fired the gunshot until after you are up on them. The rest of the hogs will have fled from the initial shot.
We have a different, uncommon issue at our camp with hogs. The hogs at our place escaped from a local farm, and are tearing the area apart. Having been pinned their whole lives, they charge by nature because they are used to an environment where they can not run.
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;38382855]You'd be surprised. Pay the ATF your $200 MG Stamp, buy a drop in Auto or [URL="http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=501"]Burst trigger from Bushmaster[/URL] and you're ready to party. Total investment, $300 shipped. (However you DO have to have your name and other info Laser engraved into your AR-15 Lower at least 1/16 on an inch deep.)
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
Try and get something that the Manufacturer has rated for "+P/+P+" ammo.[/QUOTE] that's just a fire-control group, you still need an auto sear and an m16 bolt which will run you another 9 grand (or around $400 if you get it illegally)
Not exactly a firearm, but just bought one of these for cheap target practice and dealing with rodents.
[url]http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Crosman_1377C_PC77/198[/url]
[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;38385031]If you have more than eight hogs charging you, you have a much bigger issue than mag capacity. lol
BTW, Hogs are very timid by nature, and only charge when they have no other option. Even pinned hogs will run from a gun shot, especially one as loud as a 10mm. The main purpose of a handgun for hogs is when you come up on what you think is a dead hog, and it ends up being wounded instead. This happens a lot, and accounts for most attacks on humans. The wounded animal gets spooked by the human, and then they attack. Remember, hogs won't know you are there, and won't know you fired the gunshot until after you are up on them. The rest of the hogs will have fled from the initial shot.
We have a different, uncommon issue at our camp with hogs. The hogs at our place escaped from a local farm, and are tearing the area apart. Having been pinned their whole lives, they charge by nature because they are used to an environment where they can not run.[/QUOTE]
Thats almost the situation over here, These fuckers are EVIL and don't give a fuck about running away from you. The only ones that we have run are the babies, the full size ones? They hear a gunshot or see it, they'll come after you. Usually we're up in a stand and if we walk across a group its only 2 or 3. But we have walked up on about 8 before but they were babies. If I see a group of them coming towards me I'm gonna open fire and take off running, and if they decide to follow me I'll pop more rounds into them. Usually its only 1 or 2, and 8 rounds sounds wonderful but I'd rather have 15.
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=massn7;38385022]If I'm understanding you correctly, you wanted a 10mm to have for hunting / defense against hogs, correct? And you stated that it would really just be for popping one or two into them so you can have enough time to get to your ATV if shit hits the fan. So having twelve or fifteen or however many 10mm rounds they can stuff into a G20 mag isn't going to matter. If you don't stop a charging hog in one or two shots, three max, you've got a serious problem and the extra ten or whatever you've got left isn't going to matter. Something else to consider, full size Glock frames are thick. By no means are they impossible to hold for smaller framed individuals, they're just uncomfortable, and if you're going to be staking your well being on a firearm, you definitely want it to be a comfortable fit.
I've got decent sized hands and I still hate a full size Glock frame, I'd only go with a SF if I went full size Glock. Obviously this is going to vary from person to person, and I have no idea how big your hands are, I'm just pointing it out. Hunting / defending against hogs, in the caliber you want, I'd definitely say a 1911 is up your alley. Don't discount the design just because it's old and doesn't have a double stack wonder mag![/QUOTE]
Yeah I do want it for when shit its the fan or if its just 1 or 2 but as I said above it varies. And I'm fine with full size glock frames, My hands are pretty big so an SF would just feel weird for me.
edit: Hogs are considered vermin here, they are always tearing up our feeders and shit and as great as they taste ( the smaller ones ) we don't care about getting the meat as much and we just want them dead. They destroy our property and we hate them with heart and soul.
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
Also didn't mean any disrespect to the 1911 I just think that its a slightly older system that can easily be replaced for a cheaper and sometimes more reliable option.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38385169]that's just a fire-control group, you still need an auto sear and an m16 bolt which will run you another 9 grand (or around $400 if you get it illegally)[/QUOTE]
AR-15s have more meat in the lower to prevent an auto trigger group from being installed too, you'd have to mill that out to get one to fit.
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;38387220]AR-15s have more meat in the lower to prevent an auto trigger group from being installed too, you'd have to mill that out to get one to fit.[/QUOTE]
Most do but nicer ones or ones older than about 20 years will all have low walls
Shooting full auto must be really tough on the bank
What all is involved as far as tax stamps and paperwork for suppressors? Feeling the urge for a suppressed 10/22.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;38388574]What all is involved as far as tax stamps and paperwork for suppressors? Feeling the urge for a suppressed 10/22.[/QUOTE]
Not 100% sure, but I believe it's a tax stamp along the lines of an SBR... again don't quote me on it. (Unless someone says I'm right then... fuck you)
Tax stamp prices are anywhere from $100 - $300 and the paperwork isn't very extensive but it gets there. As far as suppressor prices go, all depends on what make and model.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;38388574]What all is involved as far as tax stamps and paperwork for suppressors? Feeling the urge for a suppressed 10/22.[/QUOTE]
$200 and a form 4
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zerokateo;38388818]Tax stamp prices are anywhere from $100 - $300 and the paperwork isn't very extensive but it gets there. As far as suppressor prices go, all depends on what make and model.[/QUOTE]
As far as I'm aware the only NFA tax stamp that isn't $200 is for AOWs and that's only $5
So after reading about the definitions of different NFA firearms, to my understanding, a shotgun with a short barrel and a pistol grip is an AOW, not an SBS, correct? Would this include shorty shotguns with pistol-grip pumps?
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
I ask because now I want a Serbu Super-Shorty.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;38389220]So after reading about the definitions of different NFA firearms, to my understanding, a shotgun with a short barrel and a pistol grip is an AOW, not an SBS, correct? Would this include shorty shotguns with pistol-grip pumps?[/QUOTE]
Yes and yes. My interpretation is that construction is still $200, $5 is the transfer fee
Also suppressors are illegal in Illinois, so I can't do the 10/22 build I wanted.
There is only one NFA tax stamp in the United States and it costs $200. You will need a Form 4 to start the process. You will also need either a Trust, or hope that your local CLEO will sign-off on the Form 4. The majority of CLEOs will not sign-off on the Form 4. Reason being is it puts a liability on them. CLEOs do not have to sign-off, it's strictly their decision, and they do not need to give a reason. Personally, I would go with a Trust. A Trust makes the process slightly faster, plus you can add trustees to the trust, and legally any NFA items under the trust can still be owned if the beneficiary or trustee dies. If you go with a CLEO sign-off, in the event the owner of the NFA item dies, there is tons of red-tape involved with taking possession of the item. Most cases the ATF seizes them, and that is where they stay.
Actually, forget the NFA hassles. I think I just figured out my desired range toy shotgun.
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/411550736/MOS+500+PERS+20IN+8SHOT-P+12G[/url]
[url]http://www.atigunstocks.com/tactical-stocks/284-tactical-top-folding-stock.html[/url]
[url]http://www.atigunstocks.com/forends-and-picatinny-rails/234-shotgun-forend-pistol-grip.html[/url]
[QUOTE=cardfan212;38390348]Actually, forget the NFA hassles. I think I just figured out my desired range toy shotgun.
[url]http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/411550736/MOS+500+PERS+20IN+8SHOT-P+12G[/url]
[url]http://www.atigunstocks.com/tactical-stocks/284-tactical-top-folding-stock.html[/url]
[url]http://www.atigunstocks.com/forends-and-picatinny-rails/234-shotgun-forend-pistol-grip.html[/url][/QUOTE]
If its what you like, then sure go for it, but in my experience, the pistol grip slide action doesn't work well.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;38389220]So after reading about the definitions of different NFA firearms, to my understanding, a shotgun with a short barrel and a pistol grip is an AOW, not an SBS, correct? Would this include shorty shotguns with pistol-grip pumps?
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
I ask because now I want a Serbu Super-Shorty.[/QUOTE]
If the shotgun started life as a full length shotgun, then shortening it requires a SBS stamp ($200). If the shotgun started life as a sawn off shotgun you need a AOW stamp ($5)
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
It's a bit silly, but since when have government departments made sense?
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
Looked into it. Seems an AOW can't have a stock on it, as it's considered a "large bore handgun". Personally I'd go with the SBS stamp, costs more but it means you could cut your own shotgun down potentially saving more money than you spent and you can have a stock on it
[QUOTE=download;38391309]If the shotgun started life as a full length shotgun, then shortening it requires a SBS stamp ($200). If the shotgun started life as a sawn off shotgun you need a AOW stamp ($5)
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
It's a bit silly, but since when have government departments made sense?
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
Looked into it. Seems an AOW can't have a stock on it, as it's considered a "large bore handgun". Personally I'd go with the SBS stamp, costs more but it means you could cut your own shotgun down potentially saving more money than you spent and you can have a stock on it[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. Unless you can find a pre-made AOW shotgun like the Serbu or Stoger then your best bet is the SBS Stamp, it is more flexible (Stocks allowed, rifling allowed, etc.).
what's a good gun in 7.62 tok that's still being manufactured today?
i like shiny new things
[QUOTE=Raijin;38395002]what's a good gun in 7.62 tok that's still being manufactured today?
i like shiny new things[/QUOTE]
Zastava still makes their own clone of the Tokarev
I'd kill to have an FNP type gun in 7.62x25
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/Lj5eK.jpg[/thumb]
Steyr AR
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/2KqW3.jpg[/thumb]
Captured Kyber Pass AK
[QUOTE=/Vandy/;38395546][thumb]http://i.imgur.com/Lj5eK.jpg[/thumb]
Steyr AR[/QUOTE]
aug aesthetics + ar aesthetics = frankenrifle
definitely_do_not_want.bmp
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
the foregrip alone looks retarded.
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