[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19635865]I'm sorry you're so ignorant and naive. Do you know what self defense is? Do you realize you can't just "not put yourself into that situation" that it's an uncontrollable event? Do you want to walk away from an event like that or be carried away in a coffin? It's your choice, but I chose the former.
You're an idiot.
The best form of self defence is not getting into that shit in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Where the hell do you live? In the cities there's crime and in the country there's animals. Having a gun is like having auto insurance. It's there when you need it. Plus its fucking fun to go out and shoot stuff with your friends.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636141]So I'm an idiot for attempting to defend myself from unforeseen circumstances while you're rational for taking no precautions for the inclement parts of every day life?
What about those around you, do you care enough about them to help them?[/QUOTE]
I don't need a gun to help people. I don't need a sidearm as a 'precaution' for the inclement parts of every day life. Chances are holding a sidearm would get me killed faster.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;19616597]
I also highly recommend at least one handgun or rifle in .22LR if you don't own one already. If you don't own any firearms start with one of those in order to learn the basics.
We've got the Ruger MK 2 or 3
[media]http://bdwoodturn.com/pics/newMKIII512.jpg[/media]
Browning Buck Mark (granted, a tad expensive)
[img]https://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/buckmark-contour-urx.jpg[/img]
Beretta Neos
[media]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/beretta/ber_neos_6_bl.jpg[/media]
S&W 22A
[img]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/smith_22a_5.jpg[/img]
Walther P22
[media]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/walther_p22_3.4.jpg[/media]
And a wide variety of other models to chose from, including revolvers, single-shots, etc.[/QUOTE]
Browning Buckmarks and S&W 22A's are ultra cheap in cost when compared Ruger MK 2/3's and Walther P22.
If anything the Walther P22 is the most expensive .22 pistol out of all the ones you've mentioned and the one with the most reliability problems (firing pin breaking).
[editline]09:00PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19636287]I don't need a gun to help people. I don't need a sidearm as a 'precaution' for the inclement parts of every day life. Chances are holding a sidearm would get me killed faster.[/QUOTE]
European/German logic on display.
You are not your name.
I've shot a used Beretta .22 at a range, and I was not very impressed with the reliability compared to HEAVILY used Ruger's and other Berettas.
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19636287]I don't need a gun to help people. I don't need a sidearm as a 'precaution' for the inclement parts of every day life. Chances are holding a sidearm would get me killed faster.[/QUOTE]
Elaborate, in moderate detail, how not preparing for a situation will allow you to walk away more safely than if you had prepared for it.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636457]Elaborate, in moderate detail, how not preparing for a situation will allow you to walk away more safely than if you had prepared for it.[/QUOTE]
A firearm is a weapon, not a tool.
Preparing would be taking a survival knife with me incase i get stranded.
Not taking a firearm everywhere with me just incase there will be a robber trying to get some money.
In that situation what would be worse? You pulling your gun and having a mexican standoff? You struggling and using 'self defence'? Or just giving him what he wants, report him to the police and get on with your life.
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19636507]A firearm is a weapon, not a tool.
Preparing would be taking a survival knife with me incase i get stranded.
Not taking a firearm everywhere with me just incase there will be a robber trying to get some money.
In that situation what would be worse? You pulling your gun and having a mexican standoff? You struggling and using 'self defence'? Or just giving him what he wants, report him to the police and get on with your life.[/QUOTE]
Or getting raped XD
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19636507]A firearm is a weapon, not a tool.
Preparing would be taking a survival knife with me incase i get stranded.
Not taking a firearm everywhere with me just incase there will be a robber trying to get some money.
In that situation what would be worse? You pulling your gun and having a mexican standoff? You struggling and using 'self defence'? Or just giving him what he wants, report him to the police and get on with your life.[/QUOTE]
Living to see another day is the best thing. Having to use a gun isn't going to be pretty or fun like a video game. You use it in the event yourself, or others, are going to die if you don't use it.
Here's an example:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZKvtOy6Vw[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DjTR-Idrhk&feature=related[/media]
Once a crook invokes force to obtain what he wants, it's no longer a matter of giving him what he wants, it's a matter of staying alive. If he demands the money but doesn't use violence or force to obtain it, you give him the money and you live to see another day. If he wants to kill you, you have the choice of defending yourself or being slaughtered. Take your choice, you can't say you'll never be in those situations, because you will one day, even I have been.
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19636507]A firearm is a weapon, not a tool.
Preparing would be taking a survival knife with me incase i get stranded.
Not taking a firearm everywhere with me just incase there will be a robber trying to get some money.
In that situation what would be worse? You pulling your gun and having a mexican standoff? You struggling and using 'self defence'? Or just giving him what he wants, report him to the police and get on with your life.[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot on so many levels it isn't funny.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;19621640]Make a pistol in .700 nitro express :smug:.[/QUOTE]
How about a pistol in .950 JDJ?
[img]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/mo30284/950jdj.jpg[/img]
[editline]09:24PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19635320]44 is a bit small for bear, maybe for defense or something...
.454casull is the bare minimum for bear hunting.[/QUOTE]
You're talking in pistol cartridges only, I hope. A .308 will do the job just fine. Hell, so will a .223, if you can get a good shot.
[QUOTE=Splode a Pinga;19636694]
You're talking in pistol cartridges only, I hope. A .308 will do the job just fine. Hell, so will a .223, if you can get a good shot.[/QUOTE]
Rofl...
Not really, you need more weight than kinetic energy for bear hunting.
30-06 usually isn't even enough.
Dropping a 400gr 45cal slug into their skull wakes them up though.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636579]Living to see another day is the best thing. Having to use a gun isn't going to be pretty or fun like a video game. You use it in the event yourself, or others, are going to die if you don't use it.
Here's an example:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZKvtOy6Vw[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DjTR-Idrhk&feature=related[/media]
Once a crook invokes force to obtain what he wants, it's no longer a matter of giving him what he wants, it's a matter of staying alive. If he demands the money but doesn't use violence or force to obtain it, you give him the money and you live to see another day. If he wants to kill you, you have the choice of defending yourself or being slaughtered. Take your choice, you can't say you'll never be in those situations, because you will one day, even I have been.[/QUOTE]
don't be so sensational
a lot of times, crooks just use guns as a psychological tool and don't intend at all to kill anybody. why would you commit murder if all you are after is liquor, cigarettes, and whatever is in the register; the first video demonstrates this clearly, the guy bolts for the door once the clerk pulls a gun on em
I'm a filthy liberal so I'm inclined to say that stolen property is not worth taking someone's life over. This guy explains it well:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE[/media]
Crooks by and large don't want to hurt you, they just want something from you. I don't want to really debate this because I can only type with 1 hand atm, and I know I probably won't convince some people on the issue, but this is just my take on it.
[QUOTE=Splode a Pinga;19636694]How about a pistol in .950 JDJ?
[/QUOTE]
How about 2-bore?
[img]http://www.ninthstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2%20Bore.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.2-bore.com/images/825_IMG_0906.jpg[/img]
[editline]09:29PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19636790]don't be so sensational
a lot of times, crooks just use guns as a psychological tool and don't intend at all to kill anybody. why would you commit murder if all you are after is liquor, cigarettes, and whatever is in the register; the first video demonstrates this clearly, the guy bolts for the door once the clerk pulls a gun on em
I'm a filthy liberal so I'm inclined to say that stolen property is not worth taking someone's life over. This guy explains it well:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE[/media][/QUOTE]
If they have a gun presented, there's no possible way to know for sure whether they're going to get jumpy and kill someone. If you would rather gamble, that's fine, but I'm not going to gamble with my life nor the lives of anyone around me. Also, I've seen most of the videos from the guy in your video. Most of those fancy little tricks would just get you killed, or get a bystander killed by the gunman's stray bullets.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636579]Living to see another day is the best thing. Having to use a gun isn't going to be pretty or fun like a video game. You use it in the event yourself, or others, are going to die if you don't use it.[/QUOTE]
That first vid was amazing. A perfect example of how concealed carry saves lives. The other two were funny too.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636798]How about 2-bore?
[img]http://www.ninthstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2%20Bore.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.2-bore.com/images/825_IMG_0906.jpg[/img]
[editline]09:29PM[/editline]
If they have a gun presented, there's no possible way to know for sure whether they're going to get jumpy and kill someone. If you would rather gamble, that's fine, but I'm not going to gamble with my life nor the lives of anyone around me.[/QUOTE]
if anything getting into a shootout is more of a gamble than trying to peacefully end the situation, stores' cameras catch a lot more criminals than cashiers' bullets do
an active shooter situation, though, is another thing.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19636877]if anything getting into a shootout is more of a gamble than trying to peacefully end the situation, stores' cameras catch a lot more criminals than cashiers' bullets do
an active shooter situation, though, is another thing.[/QUOTE]
You're not listening.
There's no peaceful way to end the situation in the cases I'm referring to.
If there's a gun presented, in an offensive way, it means business. I'm sorry you do not understand this.
If you connect with the shooter with any modern and responsible self-defense round, they will drop where they stand within 1 or 2 shots.
It's a much safer way to end the situation than risking a nut case going off and killing everyone.
I'm sure those cameras are going to stop him from killing people.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636938]You're not listening.
There's no peaceful way to end the situation in the cases I'm referring to.
If there's a gun presented, in an offensive way, it means business. I'm sorry you do not understand this.
If you connect with the shooter with any modern and responsible self-defense round, they will drop where they stand within 1 or 2 shots.
It's a much safer way to end the situation than risking a nut case going off and killing everyone.
I'm sure those cameras are going to stop him from killing people.[/QUOTE]
stop being a dick
someone holding up a gas station or liquor store isn't going to just lose it and just start shooting everything that walks on two legs, any respectable store will have a camera/security system and oftentimes the police'll catch said thief within hours/blocks of the crime(scene).
if a clerk is being robbed and draws a gun they will only exacerbate the situation. what situation are you even referring to because I am pretty sure I am "listening"; you're talking about someone drawing a gun in a robbery-type situation. To say that drawing your own pistol and killing a thief instead of giving them what they want and letting the police do their job is "safer" is a really dumb argument to make. Thieves aren't sociopaths and aren't going to shoot some hambeast mom next to them for no reason.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637044]stop being a dick
someone holding up a gas station or liquor store isn't going to just lose it and just start shooting everything that walks on two legs, any respectable store will have a camera/security system and oftentimes the police'll catch said thief within hours/blocks of the crime(scene).
if a clerk is being robbed and draws a gun they will only exacerbate the situation[/QUOTE]
How can you possibly know what some armed gunman is thinking?
Are you honestly going to tell me you think it's rational to generalize all situations with your logic? (Or lack thereof)
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637071]How can you possibly know what some armed gunman is thinking?
Are you honestly going to tell me you think it's rational to generalize all situations with your logic? (Or lack thereof)[/QUOTE]
because it comes down to sociology and the reasons why people hold up convenient stores.
if you want to look at it logically, what do you think will "raise the stakes" of a robbery more: placating the thief or trying to kill the thief
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637044] Thieves aren't sociopaths and aren't going to shoot some hambeast mom next to them for no reason.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637164]because it comes down to sociology and the reasons why people hold up convenient stores.
if you want to look at it logically, what do you think will "raise the stakes" of a robbery more: placating the thief or trying to kill the thief[/QUOTE]
At what point can you tell the difference between a thief and a sociopath?
When you're dead?
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637166]At what point can you tell the difference between a thief and a sociopath?
When you're dead?[/QUOTE]
you can tell because if someone wants to go on a shooting spree they aren't going to try to rob the front counter first
you seem to be lumping an active shooter situation together with a robbery situation; in a robbery it isn't worth taking someone's life over the 50$ in the register when the police could solve the problem with security tapes, suspect descriptions, and 2 hours worth of searching
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637324]you can tell because if someone wants to go on a shooting spree they aren't going to try to rob the front counter first
you seem to be lumping an active shooter situation together with a robbery situation[/QUOTE]
Why would they use a gun in an offensive manner if they're just wanting to rob a place?
Armed robbery is MANY MANY more years in jail. Why take the risk? Because they're already a nut case willing to take someone's life if they see fit.
I'm just going to obey and follow my local and federal laws and not leave something like that to chance.
[editline]10:01PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637324]in a robbery it isn't worth taking someone's life over the 50$ in the register when the police could solve the problem with security tapes, suspect descriptions, and 2 hours worth of searching[/QUOTE]
Once a gun is involved, it isn't just a robbery, that's my entire point.
My life is threatened, and they will be met with lethal force.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637391]Why would they use a gun in an offensive manner if they're just wanting to rob a place?
Armed robbery is MANY MANY more years in jail. Why take the risk? Because they're already a nut case willing to take someone's life if they see fit.
I'm just going to obey and follow my local and federal laws and not leave something like that to chance.[/QUOTE]
yeah you try going into a liquor store and telling them in a rude voice to give you all the money in the register
[editline]03:02AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637391]Why would they use a gun in an offensive manner if they're just wanting to rob a place?
Armed robbery is MANY MANY more years in jail. Why take the risk? Because they're already a nut case willing to take someone's life if they see fit.
I'm just going to obey and follow my local and federal laws and not leave something like that to chance.
[editline]10:01PM[/editline]
Once a gun is involved, it isn't just a robbery, that's my entire point.
My life is threatened, and they will be met with lethal force.[/QUOTE]
do you honestly expect someone to kill you after they rob you
it's a robbery gun or no gun, and the intent is all the same.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637419]yeah you try going into a liquor store and telling them in a rude voice to give you all the money in the register
[editline]03:02AM[/editline]
do you honestly expect someone to kill you after they rob you[/QUOTE]
I don't expect anything from what you're saying, but if they have a gun unholstered and in hand; that they mean me mortal harm.
I also don't care what you think about justifying armed robbery. It's never justified.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637164]because it comes down to sociology and the reasons why people hold up convenient stores.
if you want to look at it logically, what do you think will "raise the stakes" of a robbery more: placating the thief or trying to kill the thief[/QUOTE]
Your logic that they will almost definitely stop once they have what they want is retarded. I've personally been in a situation where even after I gave up my wallet, he still wanted to attack me. Luckily I punched him first and high tailed it out of there before the rest of his gang could rock up and put me into a coma.
BTW, I'm still having trouble understanding the logic behind "giving them what they want", what if they want to run a train on your girlfriend's pussy? Oh yeah, give them what they want, that will placate them.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637419]yeah you try going into a liquor store and telling them in a rude voice to give you all the money in the register
[editline]03:02AM[/editline]
do you honestly expect someone to kill you after they rob you
[/QUOTE]
Has happened before.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637419]
it's a robbery gun or no gun, and the intent is all the same.[/QUOTE]
No it's not.
It's saying "I will kill you if you don't do what I say."
What if I'm not going to do what they say? They'll kill me. Tough luck for them because they'll be the one in the coffin.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637475]I don't expect anything from what you're saying, but if they have a gun unholstered and in hand; that they mean me mortal harm.
I also don't care what you think about justifying armed robbery. It's never justified.[/QUOTE]
im not justifying armed robbery don't put words into my mouth
if they are aiming a gun at you that doesnt mean they intend to kill you (that is, however, what they want you to think, because otherwise how would they get your money?)
you have to look deeper into it than "gun means hurt bad! shoot man with gun before he shoot me!"
I apologize for butting in, but it wold depend on the criminal. Some crack head looking for cash for a fix would, in most cases, flee if you pulled a gun on him. It's bad for the trip :420:But that's not every criminal or every mentality or every scenario. Some might kill you, other may run. I think Mort's argument is that in the worst case scenario, he will be able to defend himself. Whether that means that he will simply pull his handgun and watch while the assailant runs away, or will pull his piece and double tap said assailant before he has a chance to react.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637567]im not justifying armed robbery don't put words into my mouth
if they are aiming a gun at you that doesnt mean they intend to kill you (that is, however, what they want you to think, because otherwise how would they get your money?)
you have to look deeper into it than "gun means hurt bad! shoot man with gun before he shoot me!"[/QUOTE]
If they're pointing a gun at me, all it takes is a flinch and I'm dead whether they intend on killing me or not.
I'm sorry but I'm not taking that risk.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637563]No it's not.
It's saying "I will kill you if you don't do what I say."
What if I'm not going to do what they say? They'll kill me. Tough luck for them because they'll be the one in the coffin.[/QUOTE]
yeah if you would listen to what i said then you'd know that i said to do what they say and let the police handle catching them. don't kill someone if they just want to steal cigarettes
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