[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637611]yeah if you would listen to what i said then you'd know that i said to do what they say and let the police handle catching them. don't kill someone if they just want to steal cigarettes[/QUOTE]
God you're a horrible reader.
How are the police going to be there instantly to keep the gunman from killing you?
Please read my posts before replying.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637596]If they're pointing a gun at me, all it takes is a flinch and I'm dead whether they intend on killing me or not.
I'm sorry but I'm not taking that risk.[/QUOTE]
yeah maybe if you don't keep your hands where they can see them like you ought to
why are you so insistent that all crooks are inevitably murderers
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637611]yeah if you would listen to what i said then you'd know that i said to do what they say and let the police handle catching them. don't kill someone if they just want to steal cigarettes[/QUOTE]
As I said before, what if what they want is to gangrape your girlfriend, and then put you into a coma just because they didn't like the way you looked? And don't try strawman my argument or tell me it's a ridiculous notion. It wouldn't be the first time such an event has happened.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637654]yeah maybe if you don't keep your hands where they can see them like you ought to
why are you so insistent that all crooks are inevitably murderers[/QUOTE]
Because I won't be dealt with by force.
If you attempt to rob me or commit any crime against me using a weapon, I will shoot you.
That's my legal right. I carry 24/7/365 and have for the past 6 years, and have only had to draw my weapon once which the situation was over before the weapon was even fully unholstered.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637635]God you're a horrible reader.
How are the police going to be there instantly to keep the gunman from killing you?
Please read my posts before replying.[/QUOTE]
fuck you
you are picking and choosing what to read from my posts; you do what the robber says, give them what they want, and let the cameras and police do the rest once the gunman flees the scene
[editline]03:18AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19637702]Because I won't be dealt with by force.
If you attempt to rob me or commit any crime against me using a weapon, I will shoot you.
That's my legal right. I carry 24/7/365 and have for the past 6 years, and have only had to draw my weapon once which the situation was over before the weapon was even fully unholstered.[/QUOTE]
maybe that's because you are a neanderthal
[editline]03:21AM[/editline]
i am tired of debating this because hunting and pecking with one hand in a major pain in the ass
i tried to be civil in the beginning (read my first post about this) but i am getting impatient so basically to sum it all up i am sorry that you are a massive faggot baby that would kill someone just because you are a Big Man that has a skewed perception of the value of property over human life
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - JohnnyMo1))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637703]fuck you
you are picking and choosing what to read from my posts; you do what the robber says, give them what they want, and let the cameras and police do the rest once the gunman flees the scene
[editline]03:18AM[/editline]
maybe that's because you are a neanderthal[/QUOTE]
Make note that you are the one resorting to personal insults.
For the THIRD time now, not every criminal is just out to get something they want. Some of them do actually want to cause you physical harm. As I said, what if you are approached by a gang who's intention is to gangrape your girlfriend, and then beat you into a coma? They don't give a fuck if you hand them your wallet.
[QUOTE=professional;19637821]Make note that you are the one resorting to personal insults.
For the THIRD time now, not every criminal is just out to get something they want. Some of them do actually want to cause you physical harm. As I said, what if you are approached by a gang who's intention is to gangrape your girlfriend, and then beat you into a coma? They don't give a fuck if you hand them your wallet.[/QUOTE]
thanks jackass we were debating primarily about armed robbery in a convenient store type situation, don't use that type of situation in the same argument because they aren't comparable
if a bunch of people showed up with tire irons wanting to rape my girlfriend then of course that justifies self defense
i don't give a fuck about personal insults because i am crippled and angry :smile: sorry if you are offended i don't really mean what i say, im just frusterated both at your dumbfuck gotcha arguments and at myself
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19637892]thanks jackass we were debating primarily about armed robbery in a convenient store type situation, don't use that type of situation in the same argument because they aren't comparable
if a bunch of people showed up with tire irons wanting to rape my girlfriend then of course that justifies self defense
i don't give a fuck about personal insults because i am crippled and angry :smile: sorry if you are offended i don't really mean what i say, im just frusterated both at your dumbfuck gotcha arguments and at myself[/QUOTE]
Uh, no Jackass, the argument was originally self defense. That's a very broad spectrum. You chose to direct it towards armed robbery scenarios. And besides, as I said the first time, I've been in a situation where even after I handed over my wallet, he still wanted to cause me physical harm.
basically you shouldn't kill people over property; thieves aren't looking to get murder charges over some booze and cash and if you got a good security system and if there are witnesses (or just a good description by you) then they will do their job. if they are going to rape you then you should defend yourself. peace :smile:
btw drmortician those 3 vids you used in you initial argument are all terrible: the first guy shot him in the back, the second guy did nothing to try to defuse the situation and immediately raised the stakes, putting everyone at risk, and the third guy started to leave after getting what he wanted. they all support my argument
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638017]basically you shouldn't kill people over property; thieves aren't looking to get murder charges over some booze and cash and if you got a good security system and if there are witnesses (or just a good description by you) then they will do their job. if they are going to rape you then you should defend yourself. peace :smile:
btw drmortician those 3 vids you used in you initial argument are all terrible: the first guy shot him in the back, the second guy did nothing to try to defuse the situation and immediately raised the stakes, putting everyone at risk, and the third guy started to leave after getting what he wanted. they all support my argument[/QUOTE]
The first guy did NOT shoot him the back. Take another look, if the first shot hit the crim in the back, how the fuck did he return fire?
[QUOTE=professional;19637955]Uh, no Jackass, the argument was originally self defense. That's a very broad spectrum. You chose to direct it towards armed robbery scenarios. And besides, as I said the first time, I've been in a situation where even after I handed over my wallet, he still wanted to cause me physical harm.[/QUOTE]
if it's about self defense in a broad sense, then drmortician should not have used 3 store security cam vids to support his argument because that's looking at a specific type of situation. i would tend to agree that you should be ready for anything (see: that mass murderer at that one grocery store) but i stand by what i said about a typical robbery.
If you pull a gun on someone and they begin running away there really is no reason to shoot at them. Although some people would kill you after robbing you a vast majority would not, that being said it is much more important to be prepared to act if the need should arise rather than have the absolute intention on acting no matter what.
Someone who is comming into a store just to kill people would burst in firing, not burst in, demand money then start shooting at everyone. Obviously that is a situation in which you should act without hesitation, but if someone just comes in with a pocket knife and demands money, you should just give it to him and let the police handle it. If someone comes in with a gun but appears to really just want what you have and not your life, you should do the same thing. What happens if the person you shoot only had an air gun or a painted toy gun? You would have shot some dumb kid that could've just gone to jail and maybe even had some sense knocked into him.
[QUOTE=professional;19638043]The first guy did NOT shoot him the back. Take another look, if the first shot hit the crim in the back, how the fuck did he return fire?[/QUOTE]
it's hard to tell in the beginning because it's off screen, but the clerk continues to shoot as the man runs out the door
[editline]03:42AM[/editline]
also if you read the vid description, the thief didn't fire any shots at all
If someone busts in demanding money, armed or not, they're going to receive a gun in the face and be instructed to lay face down on the floor with their hands on their head while I call 911 and wait for police to haul their ass away.
If they are unwilling to follow orders and appear malicious in intent, they'll be stopped. That's really all there is to it, I don't see the need for all this childish name calling and bickering.
If you have a different method for dealing with it, that's fine. Don't insult my method until you've been faced with the situation.
[editline]10:47PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638075]it's hard to tell in the beginning because it's off screen, but the clerk continues to shoot as the man runs out the door
[editline]03:42AM[/editline]
also if you read the vid description, the thief didn't fire any shots at all[/QUOTE]
The bigger picture is, the man stopped a possible mass murder and was not charged with any crimes. So legally, he was in the right regardless what you can see in the video.
Perp didn't die either.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19638130]If someone busts in demanding money, armed or not, they're going to receive a gun in the face and be instructed to lay face down on the floor with their hands on their head while I call 911 and wait for police to haul their ass away.
If they are unwilling to follow orders and appear malicious in intend, they'll be stopped. That's really all there is to it, I don't see the need for all this childish name calling and bickering.
If you have a different method for dealing with it, that's fine. Don't insult my method until you've been faced with the situation.[/QUOTE]
don't you think that's a tad bit ridiculous and would put everyone at risk, contrary to letting police do their job though
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638201]don't you think that's a tad bit ridiculous and would put everyone at risk, contrary to letting police do their job though[/QUOTE]
Where are the police?
This thread has gone to shit. Seriously guys, stop bitching at each other and talk about guns, not what-if situations...
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19638130]If someone busts in demanding money, armed or not, they're going to receive a gun in the face and be instructed to lay face down on the floor with their hands on their head while I call 911 and wait for police to haul their ass away.
If they are unwilling to follow orders and appear malicious in intent, they'll be stopped. That's really all there is to it, I don't see the need for all this childish name calling and bickering.
If you have a different method for dealing with it, that's fine. Don't insult my method until you've been faced with the situation.
[editline]10:47PM[/editline]
The bigger picture is, the man stopped a possible mass murder and was not charged with any crimes. So legally, he was in the right regardless what you can see in the video.
Perp didn't die either.[/QUOTE]
instead of venting and raging about your argument (because you can't honestly say he's a potential mass murderer just because he was a thief armed with a gun; why would he, assuming he's a mass murderer, kill the woman and child if he is just wanting money? its preposterous) i will respectfully disagree
now, back to thread:
[img]http://www.gabriolargcc.com/images/Victor_Hi-Standard_.22.jpg[/img]
not mine but oh man would i love to have one
I didn't insult your method, call you names or bicker about anything. I just threw my point of view out there.
I'm fine with people being armed and personally I think the more well trained citizens with weapons the better but, I can't honestly ever see anyone being able to justify killing some kid that wanted some cigarettes and 50 dollars cash.
Making demands to them of course is fine and of course if they become belligerent and come at you, since there is already at least one weapon in the fray they deserve to be shot/shot at, but I don't believe you should shoot them if they're freaking out trying to run away and not doing what you say.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19638215]Where are the police?[/QUOTE]
look, i know what you are saying (police can't be there in time to stop a murder etc etc) but the point i am making is that, as demonstrated in your third video (ignoring the fact that the woman shot the guy anyway), it is much better to have the situation end peacefully and use witness accounts/descriptions to find the perpetrator, as is done routinely in these types of situations (many are caught within blocks/hours)
now, for real, back to thread
[QUOTE=GreaseGunner;19638060] What happens if the person you shoot only had an air gun or a painted toy gun? You would have shot some dumb kid that could've just gone to jail and maybe even had some sense knocked into him.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion that's the kids own damn fault for using a false gun. Sure it's a tragedy and all cause he's a kid and whatnot, but he took a risk when deciding to use the false gun and he will be met with the same force as if using a real gun. I'd rather kill someone who is using a fake weapon to threaten my life than be killed by someone with a real weapon. If I feel that my life is in danger, whether it truly is or is not, I will do what it takes to ensure my survival.
gunpost:
[img]http://www.robarguns.com/browning_files/bhppistol.gif[/img]
[editline]03:58AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;19638343]In my opinion that's the kids own damn fault for using a false gun. Sure it's a tragedy and all cause he's a kid and whatnot, but he took a risk when deciding to use the false gun and he will be met with the same force as if using a real gun. I'd rather kill someone who is using a fake weapon to threaten my life than be killed by someone with a real weapon. If I feel that my life is in danger, whether it truly is or is not, I will do what it takes to ensure my survival.[/QUOTE]
you would get into huge legal problems for shooting someone armed with a toy gun. it isn't worth the legal fees
If you bring ANY weapon with the intent to rob anyone, you gamble with your life, period. And quite frankly, so long as they pose a threat to you, your property or your earnings, they're fair game. You can argue "Oh well he's running away." but guess what, he's still armed, he could turn and fire on you at any moment, chances are he just shit his pants and wants to see you gone.
As long as an armed man is within firing range he's still a threat until he either disarms and surrenders or is killed, life is just shitty that way.
Cops wouldn't even shoot someone with a lethal round if they were running away armed, assuming they havn't already pointed the weapon at police or shot at them already.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638355]you would get into huge legal problems for shooting someone armed with a toy gun. it isn't worth the legal fees[/QUOTE]
Not really. Fake guns such as airsoft guns can look very realistic. If you point one at someone they have the right to shoot you if they in fact thought it was a real gun.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638355]
you would get into huge legal problems for shooting someone armed with a toy gun. it isn't worth the legal fees[/QUOTE]
In california maybe, I live in Minnesota. We've got castle laws and things like that which make us not at fault if we do get threatened with false weaponry.
Yeah, I don't even think in California you would get in trouble for that, the only way you could get into any legal trouble would be to be carrying the weapon illegally.
[QUOTE=GreaseGunner;19638703]Yeah, I don't even think in California you would get in trouble for that, the only way you could get into any legal trouble would be to be carrying the weapon illegally.[/QUOTE]
People's Republic of Kalifornia
:smug:
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19636760]Rofl...
Not really, you need more weight than kinetic energy for bear hunting.
30-06 usually isn't even enough.
Dropping a 400gr 45cal slug into their skull wakes them up though.[/QUOTE]
I assume you're talking about brown bear here? Because most black bear will go down from a properly placed shot from a .308, much less a 30-06, hell I've heard some people using .243.
[QUOTE=Crypto356;19639546]I assume you're talking about brown bear here? Because most black bear will go down from a properly placed shot from a .308, much less a 30-06, hell I've heard some people using .243.[/QUOTE]
Why would you even shoot a black bear? Throw a rock at it and it will run away. Black Bears aren't exactly known for their tenacity, unlike the grizzly. On the other hand, If I was going to shoot a grizzly, I'd want a big heavy round, and a fair amount of distance between me and said grizzly.
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