[QUOTE=professional;19639815]Why would you even shoot a black bear? Throw a rock at it and it will run away. Black Bears aren't exactly known for their tenacity, unlike the grizzly. On the other hand, If I was going to shoot a grizzly, I'd want a big heavy round, and a fair amount of distance between me and said grizzly.[/QUOTE]
You'd need one of these.
[IMG]http://www.efour4ever.com/m2_50cal.JPG[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638355]
you would get into huge legal problems for shooting someone armed with a toy gun. it isn't worth the legal fees[/QUOTE]
You should read your local laws some time... Even california's would permit that.
Here's how it works: If you have reason to believe an individual means you mortal harm, you are justified in shooting them. Gun, knife, toy, something that looks like a gun or knife... Doesn't make a bit of difference.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;19638329]look, i know what you are saying (police can't be there in time to stop a murder etc etc) but the point i am making is that, as demonstrated in your third video (ignoring the fact that the woman shot the guy anyway), it is much better to have the situation end peacefully and use witness accounts/descriptions to find the perpetrator, as is done routinely in these types of situations (many are caught within blocks/hours)
now, for real, back to thread[/QUOTE]
LMAO, you're right, LEO's CANT be there in time. The average response time for the Albuquerque Police Department (where I live) is about 10 minutes. But NO, if someone disrespects me enough to STEAL my property im not gonna use pussy liberal tactics and say "oH nOeZ hE sTeAlDeD mY StUfF CaLL TeH pOpO!!1". Rather, the perp' will have a 357 FMJ lodged in his back for quite some time..
If I ever get a gun, it'd probably be a cheap .22 handgun. I'm not really as much of a fan of the shooting people as I am of the mechanics.
Bought a glock model 37 .45GAP today.
Fuck the .45acp.
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/250mnw7.jpg[/IMG]
It performs the same as a .45acp +p but from a 9mm frame gun.
I have the .460rowland if I want a 45acp on steroids. Why does the 45acp even exist any more... It really should be phased out for the gap and the rowland. Both of which are more versatile.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19653028]Bought a glock model 37 .45GAP today.
Fuck the .45acp.
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/250mnw7.jpg[/IMG]
It performs the same as a .45acp +p but from a 9mm frame gun.
I have the .460rowland if I want a 45acp on steroids. Why does the 45acp even exist any more... It really should be phased out for the gap and the rowland. Both of which are more versatile.[/QUOTE]
But....but I love my springfield.
:saddowns:
[QUOTE=ubertaco;19653364]But....but I love my springfield.
:saddowns:[/QUOTE]
$295 and you can update it for this century.
[url]http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19653449]$295 and you can update it for this century.
[URL]http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]
Maybe....
Dad and I want to get an AK47. Thing is they are to fucking expensive. Dad used to sell them like 100 a gun.
[QUOTE=ubertaco;19654790]Maybe....
Dad and I want to get an AK47. Thing is they are to fucking expensive. Dad used to sell them like 100 a gun.[/QUOTE]
They're only 300 bucks. How old are you?
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;19639880]You'd need one of these.
[IMG]http://www.efour4ever.com/m2_50cal.JPG[/IMG][/QUOTE]
No because those are obsolete.
[QUOTE=EurofanBMW;19654989]They're only 300 bucks. How old are you?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call those $300 guns a true AK47.
If you want a real AK, get a saiga-7.62, and convert it.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19653028]Bought a glock model 37 .45GAP today.
Fuck the .45acp.
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/250mnw7.jpg[/IMG]
It performs the same as a .45acp +p but from a 9mm frame gun.
I have the .460rowland if I want a 45acp on steroids. [b]Why does the 45acp even exist any more...[/b] It really should be phased out for the gap and the rowland. Both of which are more versatile.[/QUOTE]
This made my eye twitch.
I know we have our disagreements regarding the pros and cons of wildcat rounds.
But come on. You can't expect people to abandon the .45 ACP that easily. You should know that every time a new cartridge is created it has to compete with everything that came before it. Do you really expect everyone to chuck all their 1911s into shredders because something marginally better came along?
And it's not that it doesn't happen. .40 S&W is a recent success story, heck every caliber under the sun started somewhere.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19653449]$295 and you can update it for this century.
[URL]http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]
If you like it, go with it. But I would never recommend a wildcat caliber to a new shooter. Established calibers such as 9x19mm and .45 ACP are just far easier to find and far cheaper.
[QUOTE=ubertaco;19654790]Maybe....
Dad and I want to get an AK47. Thing is they are to fucking expensive. Dad used to sell them like 100 a gun.[/QUOTE]
Maybe when you could inport them from China. But even today there are plenty of affordable AK variants. Not 100$, but still quite cheap.
[QUOTE=radioactive;19655115]No because those are obsolete.[/QUOTE]
You best be trolling. They've been around for longer than most people have been alive and are still worth their weight in gold to the troops in Iraq.
That says something.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19653028]Bought a glock model 37 .45GAP today.
Fuck the .45acp.
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/250mnw7.jpg[/IMG]
It performs the same as a .45acp +p but from a 9mm frame gun.
I have the .460rowland if I want a 45acp on steroids. Why does the 45acp even exist any more... It really should be phased out for the gap and the rowland. Both of which are more versatile.[/QUOTE]
The benefits of the cartridge are marginal and are more than negated by the fact that a 1911 has a full five inch barrel instead of 4.49 inches like the Glock 37. In pistols, half an inch more on the barrel can and will do wonders for it.
Plus .45 ACP drops people. We know it drops people. It is readily available in a massive variety of loads and brands, many of which have actually seen EXTENSIVE combat which have only strengthened its reputation as a man stopper. Why would we give this up for a round that is harder to reload, puts more strain on the firearm using it, and is generally much harder to find all because the cartridge is SHORTER? I've never picked up my 1911 OR my USP compact and been like "oh wow, this handle is too deep!".
[QUOTE=GunFox;19656221]The benefits of the cartridge are marginal and are more than negated by the fact that a 1911 has a full five inch barrel instead of 4.49 inches like the Glock 37. In pistols, half an inch more on the barrel can and will do wonders for it.
Plus .45 ACP drops people. We know it drops people. It is readily available in a massive variety of loads and brands, many of which have actually seen EXTENSIVE combat which have only strengthened its reputation as a man stopper. Why would we give this up for a round that is harder to reload, puts more strain on the firearm using it, and is generally much harder to find all because the cartridge is SHORTER? I've never picked up my 1911 OR my USP compact and been like "oh wow, this handle is too deep!".[/QUOTE]
Ever picked up a glock 21?
[QUOTE=Bean-O;19655858]This made my eye twitch.
I know we have our disagreements regarding the pros and cons of wildcat rounds.
But come on. You can't expect people to abandon the .45 ACP that easily. You should know that every time a new cartridge is created it has to compete with everything that came before it. Do you really expect everyone to chuck all their 1911s into shredders because something marginally better came along?
And it's not that it doesn't happen. .40 S&W is a recent success story, heck every caliber under the sun started somewhere.
[/QUOTE]
The 45acp has been in service for more than 100 years. It's time to move on with modern advancements in propellants and casing design to make a superior round in a smaller package.
The Gap does that. No, I don't say that they should shred their guns, but they could be converted or handload their own.
The Gap isn't an entirely new round like you seem to think. It fires the same bullets to the same velocities that have accounted for all the stoppages and a track records of the .45acp. It just does it with a smaller case to be able to be used in 9mm framed guns. It's a fantastic round.
[QUOTE=EurofanBMW;19654989]They're only 300 bucks. How old are you?[/QUOTE]
lol well those are the gunshows. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19656984]The 45acp has been in service for more than 100 years. It's time to move on with modern advancements in propellants and casing design to make a superior round in a smaller package. [/QUOTE]
Why fix it if it isn't broken?
[QUOTE=ubertaco;19657548]lol well those are the gunshows. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1CAKGPWASR&groupid=11"]WASR for $380.[/URL] Bottom of the barrel as far as Kalashnikovs go, but a Kalashnikov none the less.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;18980499]You're lucky they didn't issue you a belt-fed gun to strip and reassemble. The AR-15 platform is a snap to take apart and put back together.[/QUOTE]
the minimi's not bad at all. i get to laugh at you both though because the steyr is a dream to strip and reassemble.
as a side note, first time shooting a handgun (ruger p85) tonight. was shooting 60rds at 25m (or thereabouts; was at the range in the west edmonton mall). put most of the rounds into the centre, basically ripped the whole middle area out of the target. can't really be disappointed with that, and it was fun as shit. little sister had a go too, shot better than the gaggle of teens next to us (who, naturally, went for the imi penis enhancer in .44 mag)
That's the thing that got my attention about the Ruger P series. They're dirt cheap but on the flipside they tend to shoot very well. Especially compared to other handguns in the same price range. Particularly the .45 ACP version, Massad Ayoob claimed you'd need to smack down 1,000$+ to see that kind of accuracy out of any other .45 ACP gun.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19656984]Ever picked up a glock 21?
[/QUOTE]
That is because they shoved 13 rounds in there with a doublestacked magazine. The handle isn't too deep, the gun is too wide.
You aren't supposed to use double stacked .45 ACP mags. The round simply doesn't handle it well. Which would be why glock made the GAP version. People don't throw away their .45 ACP firearms because they obviously don't give a shit about magazine capacity in the first place.
Who the fuck ever actually needs 13 rounds of .45 ACP. You have fucked up royally if you have used more than about 6 rounds of pistol ammunition.
[QUOTE=GunFox;19659910]
Who the fuck ever actually needs 13 rounds of .45 ACP. You have fucked up royally if you have used more than about 6 rounds of pistol ammunition.[/QUOTE]
I get 9 with my 1911, and I think that's a fair round count. 6 shots is a bit limited if you ever get spooked into dumping a magazine, only 1 of those may hit.
My logic for the gap is that it's simply a more advanced and refined .45acp.
There is of course the .45 super that most people are pretty unaware of that pushes the .45acp up to spec but I don't recall being able to buy that over the counter. You'll also need to modify your gun for it with a heavier recoil spring and firing pin spring... Not sure if the 45super will work in a glock either.
It's just that the .45acp in a 230gr/850fps loading is miles behind almost everything else available today, and takes up vastly more space requiring a bigger gun.
In todays world, we have 9mm +P+ that's coming extremely close to matching .357magnum ballistics. And you can easily get a gun to handle 17+ of them with less weight and bulk.
[editline]09:26AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=massn7;19658144]Why fix it if it isn't broken?[/QUOTE]
So we should all be driving model-ts around then?
ITT: Fucking idiots who think that having a firearm with them at all times will increase their chances to live.
If you're being robbed having two guns pulled out is going to make the situation worse, why the fuck would a robber pull the trigger when it'd make his job 1000x worse?
Guns are fucking awesome, but they aint the answer to self defence. Getting robbed isn't worth the risk of dieing, or killing someone else with your firearm.
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19662405]ITT: Fucking idiots who think that having a firearm with them at all times will increase their chances to live.
If you're being robbed having two guns pulled out is going to make the situation worse, why the fuck would a robber pull the trigger when it'd make his job 1000x worse?
Guns are fucking awesome, but they aint the answer to self defence. Getting robbed isn't worth the risk of dieing, or killing someone else with your firearm.[/QUOTE]
You don't draw on someone if a gun is already in your face, unless they get very very distracted.
The ideal is to see the situation unfolding and be ready to rock and roll before they can draw on you. Not only that... Take a look at mass shootings, which CCW holders are the best defense against. If someone opens up in a mall, you have the upper hand in that he won't instantly assume you as a threat until he can see your gun. Hopefully by that point, you've already ended the situation and saved countless lives.
To be 100% honest, my main reason for carrying daily is because of mass shootings. For self defense, I have a pretty bitchin knife I like a lot, which scares me a lot more than a gun does. I also carry a 230lumen taclight with a strobe, which would completely remove anyone's ability to fight or shoot even in broad day light. I'm not as much of a nutcase as you'd probably think.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19662075]So we should all be driving model-ts around then?[/QUOTE]
It's not the same thing, and you know it. The .45ACP is a perfectly good round and there's no need to cast it aside because something prettier came out.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;19659628]That's the thing that got my attention about the Ruger P series. They're dirt cheap but on the flipside they tend to shoot very well. Especially compared to other handguns in the same price range. Particularly the .45 ACP version, Massad Ayoob claimed you'd need to smack down 1,000$+ to see that kind of accuracy out of any other .45 ACP gun.[/QUOTE]
yeah, it was a nice little gun. what really irritated me, though, was the mag release. thanks to my sister not wanting to leave the wave pool we'd been in the water for 4 hours solid so my thumb was absolute mush, and trying to get the thing to release was a royal pain in the arse.
as for concealed carry, if it was legal in australia you can bet your life i'd carry all the time. that said, it's unlikely i'd ever need to draw a weapon; some people seem too eager to and will start shooting if someone so much as sneezes in their direction, but in my view the best defence is the one you don't actually need to use.
also don't be knocking .45 acp, kiddies. there's a very good reason the m1911 was only recently replaced and and even better reason why so many law enforcement and military personnel still prefer it to anything else.
What kind of ammunition would one load into their concealed carry weapon? My friends dad got arrested for rocking hollow points when he brought a mugger down. But this was in New York... so I don't know.
Anyone ever listened to some of this:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erYyDOFai1I[/media]?
Is a Tokarev a reliable gun for plinking/Self defense/sexy eastern block stuff?
That and how is ammo available?
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;19667836]Anyone ever listened to some of this:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erYyDOFai1I[/media]?
Is a Tokarev a reliable gun for plinking/Self defense/sexy eastern block stuff?
That and how is ammo available?[/QUOTE]
Yes yes and yes.
Ammo is readily available and very cheap.
I wouldn't use it as a self defense pistol though, the 7.62x25 round overpenetrates like a motherfucker.
[QUOTE=Clever-Balls;19662405]ITT: Fucking idiots who think that having a firearm with them at all times will increase their chances to live.
If you're being robbed having two guns pulled out is going to make the situation worse, why the fuck would a robber pull the trigger when it'd make his job 1000x worse?
Guns are fucking awesome, but they aint the answer to self defence. Getting robbed isn't worth the risk of dieing, or killing someone else with your firearm.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, besides a panther cat is way better :razz:
[QUOTE=rossmum;19664804]
also don't be knocking .45 acp, kiddies. there's a very good reason the m1911 was only recently replaced and and even better reason why so many law enforcement and military personnel still prefer it to anything else.[/QUOTE]
I just knock .45acp because everyone thinks it's the best thing ever made, when it's been improved on time and time again, but because of people's stuborness, the improvements never get off the ground. .45SMC, .45SUPER, .460Rowland, .45gap... All improvements over the basic .45acp.
I'm just as progressive with my firearms as I am with my politics.
The .45acp works, yes it does... But so does the .45colt that came before it. And the .45 schofield.
We moved on from those rounds because better things were developed but now days people don't want to keep moving forward, they seem to want to move backwards.
A standard 1911 has a lot of kinks to it and is extremely easy to fuck up by someone who isn't used to the weapon. You have a 1 piece extractor that's able to be bent or broken by a round chambering incorrectly which requires a gun smith to re-tune the gun before it's safe to use again. Not a problem with any modern designs. It's also a very complicated gun to work on as opposed to almost all modern weapons. And most 1911s are extremely picky about what they'll eat without extensive modifactions.
I've owned almost everything now except for an H&K product. I've owned guns in more calibers than I can possibly count and I also reload on a regular basis. The .45acp is an old and tired round that needs retired for the superior designs currently available. You can run .45super in a 1911 by only changing the recoil spring and firing pin spring... Which costs about $8 and a few minutes of work, and you can still run .45acp. Just look up and make sure the gun can handle the higher pressures. People just need to start supporting these excellent rounds instead of letting them die out of their unwillingness to accept change. If anything, they're going to be more accurate and more reliable than your old tired .45acp.
Want to be on the cutting edge and have something chambered in a mass produced caliber? Go with a 9mm rated for +P+ and enjoy scoffing at your friends' 45s who can't shoot through 1/16th inch steel plates.
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