[QUOTE=professional;19738894]It's fine. Just not the 100% improvement (which is ridiculous to aim for in the first place) over the M16 that US DoD was looking for.
In a recent stress/dust testing, the XM8 actually performed the best out of a test that also included the HK416, FN's SCAR-L and a M4 carbine.
The results were as follows:
XM8 - 127 stoppages
FN SCAR - 226 stoppages
HK416 - 233 stoppages
M4 Carbine - 882 stoppages.
The difference between the XM8 to the FN SCAR and HK416 is negligable however, when you consider that the STANAG magazine the SCAR and 416 utilized is somewhat unrealiable in comparison to the polymer magazines the XM8 was feeding off.
People need to get over the whole "lolol it's plastic". The Steyr AUG can be rolled over by an APC and have no structural damage to the receiver. Try the same thing with a M16 and you'll have a dented receiver.[/QUOTE]
The answer is the FN FAL now what's the question?
[QUOTE=Bean-O;19751494]New or used?[/QUOTE]
I doubt you're going to find a 2nd gen new anywhere.
[img]http://www.waffen-werle.de/grafik/08.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.waffen-werle.de/grafik/05.jpg[/img]
Oh god tacticool lugers.
Would it be possible to ever take the M4/M16/Ar15 design and make into in a bullpup? I assume it would be possible but why has no one done it?
[QUOTE=wystan;19754644]Would it be possible to ever take the M4/M16/Ar15 design and make into in a bullpup? I assume it would be possible but why has no one done it?[/QUOTE]
Because that would be entirely stupid.
They're balanced perfectly as is, and they're compact... Why would you ever make it into a bullpup?
Yes, I'm aware of the buffer tube issue, but a lot of modern AR15 like designs have overcome this.
[QUOTE=wystan;19754644]Would it be possible to ever take the M4/M16/Ar15 design and make into in a bullpup? I assume it would be possible but why has no one done it?[/QUOTE]
Has been done, Bushmaster M17. Although it was derived from the AR-18 that was derived from the AR-15
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;19754970]Has been done, Bushmaster M17. Although it was derived from the AR-18 that was derived from the AR-15[/QUOTE]
And it flopped big time.
Last time I heard them mentioned anywhere they weren't so hot in the reliability department either.
[img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/bushmaster_m17s-2.jpg[/img]
lol@magazine release placement. I can't even figure out how you'd get the magazine out of that...
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;19754315][img]http://www.waffen-werle.de/grafik/08.jpg[/img]
Oh god tacticool lugers.[/QUOTE]
who needs accuracy and efficiency when you can have a drum magazine for your pistol :downs:
[editline]08:26PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19754993]And it flopped big time.
Last time I heard them mentioned anywhere they weren't so hot in the reliability department either.
[img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/bushmaster_m17s-2.jpg[/img]
lol@magazine release placement. I can't even figure out how you'd get the magazine out of that...[/QUOTE]
That scope looks awkward on there....
[QUOTE=Glitch360;19755101]who needs accuracy and efficiency when you can have a drum magazine for your pistol :downs:
[/QUOTE]
When a luger's typical magazine only has 7 rounds, I think you'd want a snail magazine. It holds 32 rounds.
Well then you might as well use a sub-machine gun if its high capacity that's needed
[QUOTE=Glitch360;19756350]Well then you might as well use a sub-machine gun if its high capacity that's needed[/QUOTE]
You forgot about laws :downs:.
Not all states in America are like Idaho.
You can own an armed tank in Idaho ffs.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;19751494]New or used?[/QUOTE]
used.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19754890]Because that would be entirely stupid.
They're balanced perfectly as is, and they're compact... Why would you ever make it into a bullpup?
Yes, I'm aware of the buffer tube issue, but a lot of modern AR15 like designs have overcome this.[/QUOTE]
It's always good to try everthing with a design, they where able to make the AK and SVD a bullpup, so I figured why not try it, yes they are fairly compact but someone will always want smaller and easier to conceal.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;19752015]The answer is the FN FAL now what's the question?[/QUOTE]
It's not the answer. FN FALs are finicky themselves in certain conditions. I love FALs, but massed fire is the doctrine of the day and apparently 7.62 NATO is less than ideal for that role (Funny though, the Australians did great work in vietnam, armed mainly with L1A1s. Same with the Norwegians in A-stan who up until recently, were issued license produced G3 clones...)
Answer is for the US Army to stop sidestepping the issue and just get a rifle that fucking works (a piston AR is FINE) instead of these bullshit programs that aim for "100% improvement" - which is ridiculous in the first place and they only aimed for it because they didn't want to have to actually procure a rifle replacement program.
[QUOTE=professional;19758818]It's not the answer. FN FALs are finicky themselves in certain conditions. I love FALs, but massed fire is the doctrine of the day and apparently 7.62 NATO is less than ideal for that role (Funny though, the Australians did great work in vietnam, armed mainly with L1A1s. Same with the Norwegians in A-stan who up until recently, were issued license produced G3 clones...)
Answer is for the US Army to stop sidestepping the issue and just get a rifle that fucking works (a piston AR is FINE) instead of these bullshit programs that aim for "100% improvement" - which is ridiculous in the first place and they only aimed for it because they didn't want to have to actually procure a rifle replacement program.[/QUOTE]
Blah this piston AR stuff is for the koolaid drinkers once again.
DI guns work fine and are not the problem. All gas piston conversions do is complicate the weapon, increase the recoil, and add weight.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19758871]Blah this piston AR stuff is for the koolaid drinkers once again.
DI guns work fine and are not the problem. All gas piston conversions do is complicate the weapon, increase the recoil, and add weight.[/QUOTE]
it doesn't complicate it, it just fills the gas tube with a long rod
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19746209]XCRs have a bad tendency to disassemble themselves over the course of prolonged fire.
They're also not quite as accurate as the normal AR15 platform. Nor are they as reliable with shitty quality ammunition, like wolf.
Over all, nice concept and it works fine for civilians, but for serious social work it's a no-go.[/QUOTE]
The very first generation had that issue. It was resolved and updated replacement parts were offered to anyone with one.
They are just as accurate as the AR-15 and can swap to calibers that are even more accurate than 5.56. Moreover none of that bullshit direct gas impingement blowing carbon fouling back into your chamber. Nor is it some gas piston kit slapped on an already obsolete rifle design. Fuck the rifle beats out the SCAR featurewise with its non-reciprocating charging handle.
They will give you trouble with shitty ammunition for the first 300 rounds out of the firearm. That is the break in period and it is stated in the manual that you need to use high pressure quality ammunition for the first 300 rounds. After that, if it is jamming JUST ALTER THE PISTON SETTING. The rifle will shoot whatever you throw at it. Just buy military issue M193 ball or some analog thereof and you are good.
The rifle has the piston setting switch so you CAN shoot wolf ammunition. Fuck, they RECOMMEND, wolf ammunition for 6.8 SPC. You can damn near kill someone with the speed it ejects spent casings. I have to be careful who is to my right. It will chew through whatever you stick in that magazine.
So no. The rifle tears up the competition.
[QUOTE=zombiefreak;19756552]You can own an armed tank in Idaho ffs.[/QUOTE]
It's true, I know someone who owns one. Last I talked to him he was selling it though.
I may be jumping the gun (lol pun) a bit but I was wondering what a decent first gun would be, I got 2 years till I can purchase one :(
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19758871]Blah this piston AR stuff is for the koolaid drinkers once again.
DI guns work fine and are not the problem. All gas piston conversions do is complicate the weapon, increase the recoil, and add weight.[/QUOTE]
DI guns work fine for fun range toys or police/paramilitary rifles. Not combat rifles that have to face mud, dust and shit every day of the week.
And no I'm not drinking kool-aid, the point I was making is if the US DoD does ever want to procure a new piston AR to replace the M16/M4 family, they should stop jizzing off over the brand names and realize that at the end of the day, most piston ARs are piston ARs. Who gives a fuck about the HK416 if you can get a cheaper, more local alternative that costs half the price but functions almost identically.
Besides, it's already happening to a degree. US Army Rangers are now fielding (or rather, have been since late 2009) FN's CAR (formerly SCAR-L), it wouldn't be surprising to see the rest of the Army follow suit.
[editline]03:51PM[/editline]
hnngee i hit the rating button accidentally. Tool'd myself.
[QUOTE=wystan;19754644]Would it be possible to ever take the M4/M16/Ar15 design and make into in a bullpup? I assume it would be possible but why has no one done it?[/QUOTE]
I thought the Tavor was based off of that idea?
I can swear i remember hearing that Israel wanted something with the M4 functionality but in a bullpup design.
Maybe i'm wrong.
[editline]09:32AM[/editline]
Nevermind.
I couldn't find anything to support that.
So let's just assume i pulled that from my ass.
So a girl I know got 3 Ruger Mini-14 (or 30) rifles for some reasons, and after abit of reasearch I've found that all of three of them were Rugers, because one of them had a stock like this (in mini14/30, not the 10/22, it was just the closest I could find):
[img]http://www.parts4ruger1022.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/muzzelite-Ruger_10-22.jpg[/img]
How good are these stocks for tacticooliness? And how hard is it to add one on a standard Mini 14?
[QUOTE=evilweazel;18979255]Win[/img]
This is GAU-8. when mr. g flings bullets people go :byodood: and have sadness in heart and eventually die cuz 30mm boolet is var vary large.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn´t stand in front of one of these when it fires
[QUOTE=GunFox;19759585]
They will give you trouble with shitty ammunition for the first 300 rounds out of the firearm. That is the break in period and it is stated in the manual that you need to use high pressure quality ammunition for the first 300 rounds. After that, if it is jamming JUST ALTER THE PISTON SETTING. The rifle will shoot whatever you throw at it. Just buy military issue M193 ball or some analog thereof and you are good.
[/QUOTE]
That's a design flaw.
My Rock river arms AR15 ran 100% out of the box with even the shittiest ammo in existence... No break in required.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19763482]That's a design flaw.
My Rock river arms AR15 ran 100% out of the box with even the shittiest ammo in existence... No break in required.[/QUOTE]
How many times did you clean it? How many shots did you take?
The XCR was designed to be fired for an incredibly long period of time before being cleaned. The 300 round period is because typically in a combat situation you're not granted the time to baby your rifle.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;19765599]How many times did you clean it? How many shots did you take?
The XCR was designed to be fired for an incredibly long period of time before being cleaned. The 300 round period is because typically in a combat situation you're not granted the time to baby your rifle.[/QUOTE]
I lubed it up when I 1st bought it.
Haven't really cleaned the internals since, and it's had a lot of rounds down range, don't have an exact count.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19765676]I lubed it up when I 1st bought it.
Haven't really cleaned the internals since, and it's had a lot of rounds down range, don't have an exact count.[/QUOTE]
So you haven't cleaned the barrel yet either? I would assume you've at least done that.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;19765692]So you haven't cleaned the barrel yet either? I would assume you've at least done that.[/QUOTE]
Ehh not really, just shot some break free down it and let all the shit run out.
Barrel looks pretty clean to me.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19765828]Ehh not really, just shot some break free down it and let all the shit run out.
Barrel looks pretty clean to me.[/QUOTE]
That something is still not nothing.
I'm sure you probably could pump plenty of shit ammo down an XCR when you buy it. It's just recommended not to, just as any other gun manufacturer would say not to.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;19763482]That's a design flaw.
My Rock river arms AR15 ran 100% out of the box with even the shittiest ammo in existence... No break in required.[/QUOTE]
you can't judge a gun based on how long it takes to break it in; break-in periods are to be expected for a lot of guns, especially if they have higher tolerances. A gun being able to shoot Wolf factory-new doesn't make it better than a gun that can shoot Wolf after a few hundred rounds of premium ammo.
XCRs look pretty sweet, but for that price you could SBR a Sig 556 pistol. Then again, XCRs do have a left-side nonreciprocating charging handle...
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