The Messiahcule: or "How I learned to stop thinking and follow Jesus" - General

Oh boy, a thread about religion... Isn't this against the forum rules?

[QUOTE=Master117;30419375]Well I was following along until you told me to "shut the fuck up." My goal was to keep this as civilized as possible, but unfortunately it looks like you don't want to keep it such. Also the fatal flaw in your argument is that from at least the Judaical belief in God (at least what I was taught) is that God does not send anyone to hell or torture them for not believing in him or following his commandments. In fact, Jews do not believe in hell. The closest we have is Gehinom, essentially a purgatory. God's laws and commandments are essentially akin to "don't put your hand on the hot stove or you will get burned." God does not punish you. It's the actions you take that lead to your demise and God is only trying to warn you not to take those actions. Why is it set up this way? Why can't God just make it so we don't have to follow some of what seems to be absolutely ridiculous laws and commandments since God is apparently the ultimate power, after all? Well, as of now we do not have that answer. I never said I believed in any of what the bible says about creation. In fact, that was my whole point on why I say that God cannot be proven since there is no evidence that what the bible says God did actually happened. I am also saying that just because there is no evidence that God did not do any of that does not mean that this is enough evidence to disprove God or a god. I am claiming that based on what is currently known, there is no way of determining whether God, or even another deity exists or does not exist.[/QUOTE] We have no evidence of a god's existence. We have evidence that shows a god is not necessary. Use Occam's Razor.

[QUOTE=JumJum;30434929]Don't say that you're agnostic. The word "Agnostic" comes from the word "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Just like the word "Atheist", the "A" in "Agnostic" has a negative meaning to it. So if you say that you're agnostic, you're practically saying that you're stupid. Just throwing that out there. :geno:[/QUOTE] I'm aware of this, as I've stated [u] several [/u] times. I'm using the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" as their common connotations. Not the literal interpretation. Idiot.

Most people here are atheists because they aren't hopeless, unlike some unfortunate people around the world. What I'm saying is that some people suffer needlessly, throughout their entire lives even. And they question why they deserve that, and no one has the answer to that because it's senseless. So religion can only offer them hope that everything will be okay.. when they die. It's a sad story.. So to all atheists around here, be glad you are not one of those really unfortunate folk.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;30437319]I'm aware of this, as I've stated [u] several [/u] times. I'm using the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" as their common connotations. Not the literal interpretation. Idiot.[/QUOTE] I know that. It's called a joke.

Well, I'm going to throw my opinion out on the whole death thing. As an atheist, I obviously don't believe in an after life or such. My opinion on the matter is that we use our bodies to send information from our surroundings to our brain. The brain then uses this information to allow us to perceive. But if our body is dead, then we can no longer perceive, since the brain no longer receives input, and the brain is dead anyway. So you never really die, it's just your body dies, and you can't really do much about, "yourself." As far as this whole cross in a protein thing is concerned, I think people see what they want to see. I see faces in cars and clouds all the time, I don't go claiming ridiculous theories about them. I just laugh at the coincidence.

The way every man should die is by accepting one's fate. I mean just imagine a situation where You know you are gonna die and there ain't [b]shit[/b] you can do about it. Many of us would puke, piss our pants and some of us would ask not to prolong it. Fucking once in a lifetime shit I'm telling you.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;30410252]Wow. I now don't have to worry about the moral integrity of my pigs. Jesus is with them.[/QUOTE] Does this mean all pigs go to heaven?

[QUOTE=JumJum;30434929]Don't say that you're agnostic. The word "Agnostic" comes from the word "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Just like the word "Atheist", the "A" in "Agnostic" has a negative meaning to it. So if you say that you're agnostic, you're practically saying that you're stupid. Just throwing that out there. :geno:[/QUOTE] It doesnt mean saying that you are stupid, Its saying you dont have the knowledge whether there is a god or not. Lack of knowledge can mean stupidity, or that you dont know for sure. If i think you have a wristwatch but im not sure, i have a lack of knowledge. If im sure you have a wristwatch, I have knowledge. Therefore, if you are an atheist, you are absolutely 100% sure there is no God or anything similiar. If you have the slightest doubt, you are weak agnostic. I myself am weak agnostic which basically means I do not claim there is a god or an higher force or not, but maybe one day we can find out. In short: IDK [B]BY THE WAY[/B] People need to learn to have civilized debates. True debate is not about screaming "YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID YOU BELIEVE" to eachother. However, thats how people debate on the internet. Though the problem with debating on the internet, you dont know in what tone is the other guy speaking to you. A good debate is civilized. Do not get angry even if someone strongly disagrees with you. Ask him why does he disagree with you. he shares his view on the subject. Calmly give a reason why he might be wrong. give some facts. Also, learn to lose a debate. If you get your view proven wrong, just admit you were wrong. If you dont, it just makes you look stupid. Learn to have these civilized debates, they are much more comfortable and even educational. [B]Debates do not go anywhere if you just insult or laugh at eachother.[/B]

[QUOTE=JumJum;30434929]Don't say that you're agnostic. The word "Agnostic" comes from the word "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Just like the word "Atheist", the "A" in "Agnostic" has a negative meaning to it. So if you say that you're agnostic, you're practically saying that you're stupid. Just throwing that out there. :geno:[/QUOTE] you're practically saying that you're stupid by posting this gnosticism is a statement of knowledge like theism is a statement of belief. a gnostic theist claims that he has knowledge that a theistic being exists. an agnostic atheist does not claim to have knowledge that a theistic being does not exist. get your shit straight, please

[QUOTE=Str4fe;30438778]It doesnt mean saying that you are stupid, Its saying you dont have the knowledge whether there is a god or not. [/QUOTE] Give this guy a medal. That's seriously better than I could have explained agnosticism.

If god is all powerful, and the protein was indeed supposed to be a cross, why would he half ass the job so badly and not make it straight?

[QUOTE=RedCzar;30439643]If god is all powerful, and the protein was indeed supposed to be a cross, why would he half ass the job so badly and not make it straight?[/QUOTE] because the judeo-christian god does not exist

[QUOTE=JumJum;30434929]Don't say that you're agnostic. The word "Agnostic" comes from the word "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Just like the word "Atheist", the "A" in "Agnostic" has a negative meaning to it. So if you say that you're agnostic, you're practically saying that you're stupid. Just throwing that out there. :geno:[/QUOTE] Who cares

[QUOTE=Wootman;30439980]Who cares[/QUOTE] people who aren't brain-dead morons and have independent thought [editline]1[/editline] seriously, you're suggesting that it's ridiculous to use words correctly

[QUOTE=Sanius;30439924]because the judeo-christian god does not exist[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.battleduck.com/media/images/lovecraftimages/cthulhu.jpg[/img] Cthulhu is the one true god!

[QUOTE=Sanius;30439564]you're practically saying that you're stupid by posting this gnosticism is a statement of knowledge like theism is a statement of belief. a gnostic theist claims that he has knowledge that a theistic being exists. an agnostic atheist does not claim to have knowledge that a theistic being does not exist. get your shit straight, please[/QUOTE] If you read above, I clearly said it was a joke. No need to make a big deal of it.

[QUOTE=slimd1995;30434792]Correct me if I'm wrong, but the symbol of the cross comes from Jesus being crucified. Well, there were people back then. Those people had Lamanin in them before Jesus was crucified, before the cross was ever a religious symbol. So, what? God predicted that Jesus would be crucified before he even made the first human? Well, that can only be possible if people didn't truly have free will, which makes the whole idea of God and life seem rather useless.[/QUOTE] God is commonly seen as omniscient and omnipotent, such that he could see into the future and act upon information gathered. Which is really silly, but whatever.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;30438778][B]BY THE WAY[/B] People need to learn to have civilized debates. True debate is not about screaming "YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID YOU BELIEVE" to eachother. However, thats how people debate on the internet. Though the problem with debating on the internet, you dont know in what tone is the other guy speaking to you. A good debate is civilized. Do not get angry even if someone strongly disagrees with you. Ask him why does he disagree with you. he shares his view on the subject. Calmly give a reason why he might be wrong. give some facts. Also, learn to lose a debate. If you get your view proven wrong, just admit you were wrong. If you dont, it just makes you look stupid. Learn to have these civilized debates, they are much more comfortable and even educational. [B]Debates do not go anywhere if you just insult or laugh at eachother.[/B][/QUOTE] This is why we can't have nice things. I agree, and this is why these threads will always just be shitstorms. IMO it isn't really possible to have a serious debate about religion, at least Christianity, because it's completely down to personal experience. I didn't read the bible and think "This makes so much sense! sign me up". I tried going along with it, with an open mind and I really do feel like there's somebody there. You can call me a gullible idiot, but I gave up caring what people on the internet think of me a very long time ago. Feelings shouldn't come into debates and that's all we have. The plural of anecdote isn't evidence, but the experience of one person can be the basis of their own beliefs. Debate is pointless: There's nothing you could say that would change the way I feel, and there's nothing I could say that would change the way you think. Most of the people here have already decided that religion is a stupid idea, so there's nothing much that will change their minds. Everybody has a God-shaped hole and you have to make up your own mind on what you fill yours with.

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;30446051]This is why we can't have nice things. I agree, and this is why these threads will always just be shitstorms. IMO it isn't really possible to have a serious debate about religion, at least Christianity, because it's completely down to personal experience. I didn't read the bible and think "This makes so much sense! sign me up". I tried going along with it, with an open mind and I really do feel like there's somebody there. You can call me a gullible idiot, but I gave up caring what people on the internet think of me a very long time ago. Feelings shouldn't come into debates and that's all we have. The plural of anecdote isn't evidence, but the experience of one person can be the basis of their own beliefs. Debate is pointless: There's nothing you could say that would change the way I feel, and there's nothing I could say that would change the way you think. Most of the people here have already decided that religion is a stupid idea, so there's nothing much that will change their minds. Everybody has a God-shaped hole and you have to make up your own mind on what you fill yours with.[/QUOTE] I disagree completely. If you had even the slightest shred of evidence to back up your position, that would make a large difference in what I thought. For example, I wouldn't think you're quite as crazy. I also disagree with the idea I have a god shaped hole in my life. Unless I filled it with cynicism and Charlie Brooker without noticing.

According to the creationist theory, God created us before the cross became a symbol affiliated to him, the world was created around 6000 years ago, and the cross became a Christian symbol only 2000 years ago. This doesn't even make sense temporally

The cross is a symbol of Jesus who came 2000 years ago? edit: like what the shit are you trying to say?

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;30440077][img]http://www.battleduck.com/media/images/lovecraftimages/cthulhu.jpg[/img] Cthulhu is the one true god![/QUOTE] He better stay hidden because we would hunt his ass down with harpoons and shit

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;30446855]He better stay hidden because we would hunt his ass down with harpoons and shit[/QUOTE] The great spawn of the stars cannot be harmed by any primitive weapon conceived by the fleshy minds of mammals.

I consider myself an agnostic. I don't believe there is really a surefire way to determine if religion is true or not. Until we die at least, then the dead person will find out. Also, pointing out that a protein is in the shape of a cross is even more pathetic then the "guys, I found Jesus' face on my toast! He's real!"

I was about to post a long story about the stupidity of this guy in the video Instead, im going to say "lol religion".

[QUOTE=Falchion;30446425]The cross is a symbol of Jesus who came 2000 years ago? edit: like what the shit are you trying to say?[/QUOTE] The cross is a symbol of Christianity because Jesus got crucified.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30446131]I disagree completely. If you had even the slightest shred of evidence to back up your position, that would make a large difference in what I thought. For example, I wouldn't think you're quite as crazy. I also disagree with the idea I have a god shaped hole in my life. Unless I filled it with cynicism and Charlie Brooker without noticing.[/QUOTE] That was kind of my point. There is no evidence for god's existence that I can give you, so there's no point in me trying. There's no way that you can tell me what I have experienced, so there's no point in you trying. The only thing left for us to do is to shout at each-other over the internet. You'll always think that I'm a religious nutter who believes in fairies and I'll always think you're an egotistical empiricist who wants to tell me what to believe. What I meant by a god-shaped hole, is a need for something to drive your life. You probably do have one, but you may not realise. You probably didn't entirely get what I meant because you have a skewed idea of what god is to a christian.

[QUOTE=linksysruler;30436643]Use Occam's Razor.[/QUOTE] The problem is that Occam's Razor doesn't always apply. Take the wave-particle duality for example: Occam's Razor couldn't be applied before it was found out that particles (especially light) exhibit both wave and particle properties. The problem with applying it here would've been that either we would've only understood it as particles or only as waves. And that's just a simple example. The most intriguing thing is that in the beginning there was nothing and it exploded. However simplified that expression is, it gives rise to the question of what caused the initial creation of the universe, the big bang? And whatever that might be, be it an amount of energy or an infinitely small gathering of mass, why couldn't it be god just as well? [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr. Strangelove;30447123]I was about to post a long story about the stupidity of this guy in the video Instead, im going to say "lol religion".[/QUOTE] You use a mac you hypocrite Using macs is a religion

Do I believe there is a god? No. Do I believe there are beings higher than humans? Sure. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were beings who could create stuff from their minds with no effort. The space is huge, we know shit about what is possible.