The Messiahcule: or "How I learned to stop thinking and follow Jesus" - General

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;30447412]The cross is a symbol of Christianity because Jesus got crucified.[/QUOTE] So how does it make no temporal sense (even though arguably there is alot which doesn't make sense in creationist theories), the jewish and the christian god are the same god. The cross was the symbol of the newfound christianity and rewriting of gods "rules". [QUOTE=johan_sm;30448313]Do I believe there is a god? No. Do I believe there are beings higher than humans? Sure. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were beings who could create stuff from their minds with no effort. The space is huge, we know shit about what is possible.[/QUOTE] Be careful, our planet might just be a family investment of intergalactic thargs and when they come checking if their creations are starting to pay off they will scan your mind and zap you in the balls for your insolence :v:

[QUOTE=ffffff-;30410984]Agnostic atheism is where it's at.[/QUOTE] Pfft. Jewish-Christian Atheism is where it's at.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30446876]The great spawn of the stars cannot be harmed by any primitive weapon conceived by the fleshy minds of mammals.[/QUOTE] We'll see about that :v: [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Rebi;30447083]I consider myself an agnostic. [b]I don't believe there is really a surefire way to determine if religion is true or not.[/b][/QUOTE] I don't know where to begin with you.. You don't know dick about religiousness for starters.

I bet everyone who voted "very religious" did it just to troll.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;30448937]We'll see about that :v: [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] I don't know where to begin with you.. You don't know dick about religiousness for starters.[/QUOTE] well technically we won't because we'll have all torn out our eyes from the horrors unleashed upon us in our dreams but that's neither here nor there

I don't believe in any organized religion. The philosophies religions try to teach are good, you know, be nice to others, don't kill, don't rape, don't steal, etc. The problem is that things turned from "be a good person" into "be [b]RIGHT[/b]." And really does it matter who's right? When you die you'll find out, but until then, [i]there is no way you will ever know, ever.[/i] There's no reason why you can't let other people just believe what they want to believe and be a part of a group they want to be a part of.

Interesting and funny.

Just to clear one thing up. To everyone saying that being Agnostic automatically makes you an atheist consider this. Me and a fellow physicist are arguing about the existence of more fundamental particles based on preset mathematical patters. You walk into the room. We turn to you for your opinion. You say you don't know as you are not a physicist. My friend says "AHA! Because you don't have the knowledge they exist, you therefore do not believe they exist. Therefore you side with me!" Do you see the flaw in logic there? The point is, people (especially the age range around facepunch High School-College) are so full of themselves that they are affraid to admit some things may be unknown to them. It's nice to think of the world in terms of absolutes. I know god exists, I don't believe he exists, etc. However, at the end of the day there is proof for neither. What does that mean? It doesn't mean we have to give validity or equal time to every outlandish argument that there is no proof for (like so many of you like to use as a defense). Instead, stop concerning yourselves with things that are unattainable. Example: There is a flying spaghetti monster. There is no evidence against him. You think agnostics give validity to this for both sides. However, instead you should not concern yourself with things that cannot be proven or disprove. I do not give validity to the spaghetti monster. Instead I think it's a stupid waste of time thinking about whether it exists. The same way it is stupid thinking about whether god exists. This will lead nowhere. If you believe in it, good. If you don't, good. But stop trying to do more than believe. Stop pretending you KNOW.

[QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449325]Just to clear one thing up. To everyone saying that being Agnostic automatically makes you an atheist consider this. Me and a fellow physicist are arguing about the existence of more fundamental particles based on preset mathematical patters. You walk into the room. We turn to you for your opinion. You say you don't know as you are not a physicist. My friend says "AHA! Because you don't have the knowledge they exist, you therefore do not believe they exist. Therefore you side with me!" Do you see the flaw in logic there? The point is, people (especially the age range around facepunch High School-College) are so full of themselves that they are affraid to admit some things may be unknown to them. It's nice to think of the world in terms of absolutes. I know god exists, I don't believe he exists, etc. However, at the end of the day there is proof for neither. What does that mean? It doesn't mean we have to give validity or equal time to every outlandish argument that there is no proof for (like so many of you like to use as a defense). Instead, stop concerning yourselves with things that are unattainable. Example: There is a flying spaghetti monster. There is no evidence against him. You think agnostics give validity to this for both sides. However, instead you should not concern yourself with things that cannot be proven or disprove. I do not give validity to the spaghetti monster. Instead I think it's a stupid waste of time thinking about whether it exists. The same way it is stupid thinking about whether god exists. This will lead nowhere. If you believe in it, good. If you don't, good. But stop trying to do more than believe. Stop pretending you KNOW.[/QUOTE] what the hell would even count as evidence against god anyway?

[QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449325]Just to clear one thing up. To everyone saying that being Agnostic automatically makes you an atheist consider this. Me and a fellow physicist are arguing about the existence of more fundamental particles based on preset mathematical patters. You walk into the room. We turn to you for your opinion. You say you don't know as you are not a physicist. My friend says "AHA! Because you don't have the knowledge they exist, you therefore do not believe they exist. Therefore you side with me!" Do you see the flaw in logic there? The point is, people (especially the age range around facepunch High School-College) are so full of themselves that they are affraid to admit some things may be unknown to them. It's nice to think of the world in terms of absolutes. I know god exists, I don't believe he exists, etc. However, at the end of the day there is proof for neither. What does that mean? It doesn't mean we have to give validity or equal time to every outlandish argument that there is no proof for (like so many of you like to use as a defense). Instead, stop concerning yourselves with things that are unattainable. Example: There is a flying spaghetti monster. There is no evidence against him. You think agnostics give validity to this for both sides. However, instead you should not concern yourself with things that cannot be proven or disprove. I do not give validity to the spaghetti monster. Instead I think it's a stupid waste of time thinking about whether it exists. The same way it is stupid thinking about whether god exists. This will lead nowhere. If you believe in it, good. If you don't, good. But stop trying to do more than believe. Stop pretending you KNOW.[/QUOTE] c'est la vie, its amazing how so many people make so much money and waste so much time on a subject so pointless at the end of the day, even though there may or may not be a god the principles of what is good and what isnt is buried deep within society, and belief that you can be a heartless asshole and not care for your fellow man because of whatever orientation you follow is simply retarded; i don't care what there might be waiting for me at the end, science or religion, i just want to live my life and try to do what i can to better society as a whole (and not in an asbergers way)

So you are basically saying that God might as well exist, but so far he has chosen not to interact with us, not directly at least. (Or maybe he just can't handle the [b]money[/b]) But yeah I agree, hell given that God is almighty, he swifts around the planet, through our souls, by the snap of his fingers, as he pleases. Or maybe he just likes the view deep in Space. Also he could be in any form (anywhere), he can observe but he cannot be observed.. if he so pleases. [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] @ BobbyDigital and all

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30449423]what the hell would even count as evidence against god anyway?[/QUOTE] Proof for how the everything began. If we knew how it all started we can rule out "creator". However, as of now knowledge of either is unattainable.

[QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449501]Proof for how the everything began. If we knew how it all started we can rule out "creator". However, as of now knowledge of either is unattainable.[/QUOTE] but what if god just created the mechanism by which the universe was created

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;30449489]So you are basically saying that God might as well exist, but so far he has chosen not to interact with us, not directly at least. (Or maybe he just can't handle the [B]money[/B]) But yeah I agree, hell given that God is almighty, he swifts around the planet, through our souls, by the snap of his fingers, as he pleases. Or maybe he just likes the view deep in Space. Also he could be in any form (anywhere), he can observe but he cannot be observed.. if he so pleases. [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] @ BobbyDigital and all[/QUOTE] If you are atheist you need to reject all theism. Not just Catholicism. There are views of god as a mindless unintelligible force, long dead, etc. [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30449542]but what if god just created the mechanism by which the universe was created[/QUOTE] Why does this matter? I don't think it's possible to know. But that doesn't mean I think it's important to focus on it. It is impossible to prove either claim. Look at it this way. Someone earlier used the claim of a bird landing outside of his window. I can't prove it happened or didn't happen, but what is important is that I shouldn't care either way. If some knowledge is unattainable why should we focus on it. It's wasting our time to fantasies and argue about it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30449423]what the hell would even count as evidence against god anyway?[/QUOTE] Nothing. But I like paradoxes. So God is almighty, yet also infallible, which means that he cannot change his mind, but if he can't change his mind how can he be almighty? Can he create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it himself? I also like the predestination paradox. God knows everything; he is omniscient. Past, present and future. So whenever he places someone on this planet, and they turn out to not be Christians or just bad people, he knew that for an infinite time beforehand, yet created them nonetheless. He placed Hitler on this planet, well knowing what he would do, and threw him in Hell afterwards, which was just plain evil not only towards Hitler himself, who didn't have a choice, but also everybody who suffered under Hitler. So much for an all-loving God.

[QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449548]If you are atheist you need to reject all theism. Not just Catholicism. There are views of god as a mindless unintelligible force, long dead, etc. [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] Why does this matter? I don't think it's possible to know. But that doesn't mean I think it's important to focus on it. It is impossible to prove either claim.[/QUOTE] im trying to illustrate that it's ridiculous to point out that it's impossible to prove god doesn't exist it's impossible to prove a negative as a physicist you should know that an unfalsifiable claim is a no no [editline]14th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Chrille;30449601]Nothing. But I like paradoxes. So God is almighty, yet also infallible, which means that he cannot change his mind, but if he can't change his mind how can he be almighty? Can he create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it himself? I also like the predestination paradox. God knows everything; he is omniscient. Past, present and future. So whenever he places someone on this planet, and they turn out to not be Christians or just bad people, he knew that for an infinite time beforehand, yet created them nonetheless. He placed Hitler on this planet, well knowing what he would do, and threw him in Hell afterwards, which was just plain evil not towards Hitler himself, who didn't have a choice, but also everybody who suffered under Hitler. So much for an all-loving God.[/QUOTE] hes god so he's not subject to paradoxes or moral dilemmas

[QUOTE=Chrille;30449601]Nothing. But I like paradoxes. So God is almighty, yet also infallible, which means that he cannot change his mind, but if he can't change his mind how can he be almighty? Can he create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it himself? I also like the predestination paradox. God knows everything; he is omniscient. Past, present and future. So whenever he places someone on this planet, and they turn out to not be Christians or just bad people, he knew that for an infinite time beforehand, yet created them nonetheless. He placed Hitler on this planet, well knowing what he would do, and threw him in Hell afterwards, which was just plain evil not only towards Hitler himself, who didn't have a choice, but also everybody who suffered under Hitler. So much for an all-loving God.[/QUOTE] HITLER HAD TO PURGE WORLD OF THE DIRTY JUDEN CHRISTKILLERS !!!111

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30449605]im trying to illustrate that it's ridiculous to point out that it's impossible to prove god doesn't exist it's impossible to prove a negative as a physicist you should know that an unfalsifiable claim is a no no [/QUOTE] That's why I am an agnostic. I don't think it's possible to prove a negative, I was just answering your question to demonstrate the impossibility of this. Don't worry though. Theists can't prove god exists. No one can move this stone either way. My point: why try to argue for something that is so pointless and baseless?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;30449605]hes god so he's not subject to paradoxes or moral dilemmas[/QUOTE] Which is why I wrote that nothing could be used as evidence against him. I still like the paradoxes though. [QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449657]That's why I am an agnostic. I don't think it's possible to prove a negative, I was just answering your question to demonstrate the impossibility of this. Don't worry though. Theists can't prove god exists. No one can move this stone either way. My point: why try to argue for something that is so pointless and baseless?[/QUOTE] It's not about proving anything, it's whether or not you think there is a God. I don't know if there is a creator, but I don't think so. I'm atheist.

Look. At the end of the day I believe in science. I believe in humanity. Some people who believe in gods cause trouble around the world (extremists). There is no way to make them stop believing in what they believe. Therefore, both agnostics and theists (and before you jump on me for separating the two read the above discussion) must stand united. United in MOVING ON. We must not concern ourselves with trying to prove we're right. We will always fail. We must instead turn all this motivation we have towards advancing humanity. We must minimize the harm we do to each other in the name of anything. For every page in a discussion of "can you prove god doesn't exist???LOLOLOLOL", wouldn't it be much better to have an equally thought out discussion about the origin of morality, or something that is scientific.

[QUOTE=JumJum;30434929]Don't say that you're agnostic. The word "Agnostic" comes from the word "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Just like the word "Atheist", the "A" in "Agnostic" has a negative meaning to it. So if you say that you're agnostic, you're practically saying that you're stupid. Just throwing that out there. :geno:[/QUOTE] So suddenly "Without knowledge" is "No knowledge"? Greek prefix a- implies "without". Atheist, "without god". Theism is from word "Theos", which is god. :colbert: Please stop making "jokes".

nofunallowed.jpg

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;30410466]Hahaha, I can't stop laughing and raging at the same time[/QUOTE] I'm trying to imagine how that looks.

[QUOTE=BobbyDigital;30449548]If you are atheist you need to reject all theism. Not just Catholicism. There are views of god as a mindless unintelligible force, long dead, etc.[/QUOTE] Oh I'm in the same boat as you are. We purposely include God in this discussion, as if he could exist but we just don't know, and I think it can't get any more pointless than that. After all God is just a man-made symbol of something truly good. What I'm saying is that we got [b]MUCH[/b] bigger concerns than the existence (or non existence) of God. I mean the future of humanity, all the needless violence etc etc, that's on us. God can't do much besides from hope for the best, we've come so far without God's help.. and it's been a [b]HUGE[/b] learning curve the hard way. And even now I'm including God just for the sake of argument that we humans are one sorry fucking bunch, and we are much more than that too. Mostly we are blinded by some "truth" that turns out to be false later on, and that can be dramatic for people and their soul and everyone around them, on the other hand some find peace. And THAT'S what religion is all about.

The saddest thing about this so-called "proof of god" is that some people actually believe it. A person's religion does not need to be justified in any way. I say, Believe in anything you want, just don't hurt anyone over it or force it down other people's throats.

inb4 no one pays no mind. :saddowns: as expected.

that guy preaching didnt seem extremist shutup

[QUOTE=Fippe;30449781]So suddenly "Without knowledge" is "No knowledge"? Greek prefix a- implies "without". Atheist, "without god". Theism is from word "Theos", which is god. :colbert: Please stop making "jokes".[/QUOTE] Oh god, don't take it so seriously. Lighten up a bit or ignore it.

Why are crosses even symbols of Jesus? If Jesus came back I don't think he'd like to see one, let alone millions being worn on people's necks and adorning their doors.

[QUOTE=The Epidemic;30459590]Why are crosses even symbols of Jesus? If Jesus came back I don't think he'd like to see one, let alone millions being worn on people's necks and adorning their doors.[/QUOTE] this is a good point on a similar note why would black americans want to be christians when the justification for the slavery of their ancestors was all based on the bible