• Why we have never detected intelligent life forms in space OR how i'm a fucking genius.
    80 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Phoenix Ashes;23588776]Ironically it's due to my low-self-esteem. [b]I feel that without any sort of date-rape implement I would not have any luck with the opposite sex at all.[/b] Yet that necessity gives me a feeling of power and dominance--I suddenly feel confident. Euphoric. that I am in control. Is this right?[/QUOTE] Somehow I think this is your alt. Same avatar and shit threads, anyway.
Not really. Infrared light, as someone else mentioned. The real reason we will never see or hear from extraterrestrial civilizations is because we have neither Faster-Than-Light travel nor communications. If they exist, they are simply too far away. The radio waves we started broadcasting around 1970 with the purpose of seeking contact hasn't reached that far at all despite traveling at speeds nearing c, considering the size of the universe.
A civilization that advanced would probably spend their time developing ways to make energy consumption more efficient than anything else. It is a very human mindset to think "NEED MORE ENERGY SO MINE MORE RESOURCES." A truly advanced civilization would be able to run spaceships and whatnot off of something the size of a AA battery. They wouldn't be so industrially inclined that they'd be out harvesting stars and whatnot.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;24363278] A truly advanced civilization would be able to run spaceships and whatnot off of something the size of a AA battery. They wouldn't be so industrially inclined that they'd be out harvesting stars and whatnot.[/QUOTE] This too is a quite human-esque mindset :smug: (because we utterly fail to achieve it ourselves so maybe the aliens did)
[QUOTE=MBGrimm;24362244]Dyson triangles are stronger[/QUOTE] fish dont sex... the female lays eggs and the male fertilises them.
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f98opUNuVXc/StWNHzWWfMI/AAAAAAAAKrk/3UGCiweq3cI/s400/dyson.jpg[/img] There's an alien right [b]there.[/b]
so i heard. thread title lol im dumb but think im smart lol darp
[QUOTE=heavy artillery;24363349]fish dont sex... the female lays eggs and the male fertilises them.[/QUOTE] wat
you can't live in suns dumbnuts
They've looked for these. A Dyson sphere wouldn't block all the radiation, it would really just shift the frequency. They've looked specifically for those, and found none.
ITT: 15 year old thinks highly of himself. masturbates furiously to space books.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;24363278]A civilization that advanced would probably spend their time developing ways to make energy consumption more efficient than anything else. It is a very human mindset to think "NEED MORE ENERGY SO MINE MORE RESOURCES." A truly advanced civilization would be able to run spaceships and whatnot off of something the size of a AA battery. They wouldn't be so industrially inclined that they'd be out harvesting stars and whatnot.[/QUOTE] sir you're forgetting the fact that any intelligent alien race we may see could possibly be in their equivalent of a medieval age or likewise.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;24362561]I don't think you realize just how much energy they'd be trapping. Unless the race's planet literally glows due to energy consumption, then I don't think they'd need a dyson sphere to solve their energy problems.[/QUOTE] Even then they probably wouldn't need it. Pretty much all energy that exists on Earth today comes from the Sun. The entire human race, all life on Earth, and all our technology is powered on sun energy. And we only receive about a 500 millionth of the sun's output. And that's at perihelion.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;24363816]Even then they probably wouldn't need it. Pretty much all energy that exists on Earth today comes from the Sun. The entire human race, all life on Earth, and all our technology is powered on sun energy. And we only receive about a 500 millionth of the sun's output. And that's at perihelion.[/QUOTE] Avatar fits.
[QUOTE=Levithan;24363606]you can't live in suns dumbnuts[/QUOTE] No douchebag, you build a sphere around the sun at a certain distance, and live on the inside of it. Or the outside of it, but that's a whole new kettle of fish unless you make the dyson sphere semi opaque to allow light to pass through, but then all the terrestrial animals on it would have to go through a transitional state where they would be flying upside down and shit cause the sun is technically below them. Then you have to deal with gravity which is another massive issue unless you lived on the outside of the sphere. I personally prefer ring worlds, they are smaller and easier depending on how you build them (straddling a star or in orbit around a star) And the materials wouldn't be an issue really, you could just strip mine a few planets or if you really want to go crazy then you could just use the kupier belt and the oort cloud, and then use Jupiter as the the fuel to start the ring spinning to generate gravity like forces as centrifugal forces. Wow I seem to have meandered off course.
Wouldn't the Dyson sphere collapse on itself at the poles? I mean, unless you acquire an amount of material that will probably outweigh the entire planet, I don't think it would be strong enough to keep itself up without the centrifugal force. I may be wrong.
Yeah if you're making a sphere that has the radius out to earth it needs to be something like 4 metres thick, from something i read a while ago. And that requires way more than our solar system can supply, mind you the calculations may not have taken into account all the objects in the Oort cloud as well. And if the Nemesis hypothesis turns out to be correct then the Oort cloud holds a brown dwarf star that we could happily harvest as well. And by happily I mean in a few decades cause it's a long way there and a long way back.
[QUOTE=bravehat;24364365]Yeah if you're making a sphere that has the radius out to earth it needs to be something like 4 metres thick, from something i read a while ago. And that requires way more than our solar system can supply, mind you the calculations may not have taken into account all the objects in the Oort cloud as well. And if the Nemesis hypothesis turns out to be correct then the Oort cloud holds a brown dwarf star that we could happily harvest as well. And by happily I mean in a few decades cause it's a long way there and a long way back.[/QUOTE] I'm thinking at the very top of the sphere where there is no centrifugal force acting to pull away from the sun. It'd be constantly pulled towards the sun which I'd imagine would ultimately lead to the thing collapsing. So unless you have an INCREDIBLY amount of material I think it would just come crashing down.
It should be fine since the poles will be as far from the sun as earth is, so they would experience the same stresses earth does. Besides, they could just be strengthened.
[QUOTE=bravehat;24364448]It should be fine since the poles will be as far from the sun as earth is, so they would experience the same stresses earth does. Besides, they could just be strengthened.[/QUOTE] The top would be stationary in relativity to the sun unlike earth which is constantly spinning about holding it in place. There is no centrifugal force to hold the top of the sphere in place.
Yeah but it'll be attached to the rest of the sphere which will hold it together, the sphere might become slightly warped, but lets face it, if we are building a dyson sphere, then we will be able to create a material that can withstand the forces.
Do you really think that every advanced species lives within a dyson sphere and that every species doing this has not installed any type of transmitters/receivers onto it's surface?
[QUOTE=Zee!;24364562]The top would be stationary in relativity to the sun unlike earth which is constantly spinning about holding it in place. There is no [b]centrifugal force[/b] to hold the top of the sphere in place.[/QUOTE] You mean centripetal force. "Centrifugal" force technically does not exist, it's just what people say when they are improperly educated. The machine that creates centripetal force on humans is called a centrifuge. It was called centripetal force long before centrifuges were even created, I have no idea why people decided to butcher it and start calling it centrifugal force.
[QUOTE=xxxkiller;24362124]Infact, a quick check on wikipedia thaught me that a dyson sphere would most likely emit infared light, allowing us to detect them rather easily, as a pure infared light source emiting nothing else but infared light would be very easy to filter out and very strange.[/QUOTE] aaaanndd end thread
[QUOTE=aVoN;24364984]Do you really think that every advanced species lives within a dyson sphere and that every species doing this has not installed any type of transmitters/receivers onto it's surface?[/QUOTE] This is assuming that they communicate using radio waves, and that they have the urge to contact other races. Exploring and wanting to find other life in the galaxy is a human desire, nothing says alien civilizations have to have the same motives. They could be expanding into space purely because they need more resources and room to grow, even if they did pick up our radio transmissions, there's a chance they might not even give a shit.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;24366209]This is assuming that they communicate using radio waves, and that they have the urge to contact other races. Exploring and wanting to find other life in the galaxy is a human desire, nothing says alien civilizations have to have the same motives. They could be expanding into space purely because they need more resources and room to grow, even if they did pick up our radio transmissions, there's a chance they might not even give a shit.[/QUOTE] Yeah but at some point they will have used radio waves for communication, that means that some of those transmissions will have escaped into space, so for a short time we will be able to find these signals if they are close enough and find them, and they would be able to do the same with us. Whether they want to or not it's something that could happen.
OP I am sorry but I'm the local authority on rocket science and you are wrong. A Dyson is not a solid shell, it's a set of millions, even billions, of colonies in orbit, each with, you know, solar panels, habitation, etc. The thing is that no process is 100% efficient, and those billions of stations would have to radiate waste heat. This would be done in infrared wavelenghts, giving the star a sort of reddish glow it shouldn't have. This also happens with stars that have a dust ring around them. Here are some candidate stars that turned out (As far as we know!) to be simple dust rings: [QUOTE] DATE: 1980 OBSERVER(S): WITTEBORN SITE: NASA - U OF A, MT. LEMMON INSTR. SIZE (M): 1.5 SEARCH FREQ.(MHz): 8.5 microns - 13.5 microns FREQUENCY RESOL.(Hz): 1 micron OBJECTS: 20 STARS FLUX LIMITS (W/m**2): N MAGNITUDE EXCESS < 1.7 TOTAL HOURS: 50 REFERENCE: COMMENTS: Search for IR excess due to Dyson spheres around solar type stars. Target stars were chosen because too faint for spectral type. DATE: 1984 OBSERVER(S): SLYSH SITE: SATELLITE INSTR. SIZE (M): RADIOMETER SEARCH FREQ.(MHz): 37x10**3 FREQUENCY RESOL.(Hz): 4x10**8 OBJECTS: ALL SKY 3K BB FLUX LIMITS (W/m**2): T/T =< .01 TOTAL HOURS: 6000 REFERENCE: 27 COMMENTS: Lack of fluctuations in 3K background radiation on angular scales of 10**-2 Strd. rules out optically thick Dyson spheres radiating more than 1 solar luminosity within 100 pc. DATE: 1987 OBSERVER(S): TARTER, KARDASHEV & SLYSH SITE: VLA INSTR. SIZE (M): 26 (9 ANTENNAS) SEARCH FREQ.(MHz): 1612.231 FREQUENCY RESOL.(Hz): 6105 OBJECTS: G357.3-1.3 FLUX LIMITS (W/m**2): TOTAL HOURS: 1 REFERENCE: COMMENTS: Remote observation (by VLA staff) of IRAS source near galactic center to determine if source could be nearby Dyson sphere. Source confirmed as OH/IR star. [/QUOTE]
Perhaps humans are the first/only intelligent species in this part of the universe. How awesome, yet depressing would that be? [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;24363816]Even then they probably wouldn't need it. Pretty much all energy that exists on Earth today comes from the Sun. The entire human race, all life on Earth, and all our technology is powered on sun energy. And we only receive about a 500 millionth of the sun's output. And that's at perihelion.[/QUOTE] You mean [I]originally [/I]from the Sun, right? Because most human stuff is powered by chemical combustion, not raw solar power.
Random factoid: Freeman Dyson's name is what Gordon Freeman's name is based on. :eng101: No, not the vacuum guy, the other Dyson.
[QUOTE=bravehat;24366273][b]Yeah but at some point they will have used radio waves for communication[/b], that means that some of those transmissions will have escaped into space, so for a short time we will be able to find these signals if they are close enough and find them, and they would be able to do the same with us. Whether they want to or not it's something that could happen.[/QUOTE] Says who? Our timeline of inventions is completely unique to us. We invent and discover things through accidents most of the time, actually. There is a chance that alien species could develop hovering technology before they even invent the wheel (this is touched on in H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds; the aliens skipped the wheel entirely so the bicycle fascinated them) and so on. Nothing says they could have stumbled across quantum entanglement communication (I really don't understand it, I saw some stuff about it and it is talked about in a very rudimentary fashion in Mass Effect 2) before they even figured out what radio waves are.
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