Bringing BACK The iPhone Headphone Jack - in China - General

What if you are at school, at a desk, charging your phone and u want to listen to music while charging it. There are plenty of times where I could be waiting on someone, passing the time near a wall outlet and I want to listen to my music/play my apps and let the phone charge at the same time. What if I'm on a bike with a power bank charging my phone for a very long ride and I want to listen to music the entire trip. What sane person would give up all of this for a marginally thinner and lighter phone? also forcing people to choose between charging and using headphones will encourage them to exhaust their battery and charge their phone afterwards. Charging your phone fully from 0-100% is bad for your overall battery life.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52655023]If other manufacturers go to USB-C and remove the headphone jack (some other phone manufacturers already have), it would subsequently bring on a large amount of USB-C headphones being produced. Of course you'd need adapters still whilst transitioning or if you wanted to use your existing headphones, but that's no different to any other port replacement[/QUOTE] sick I can't wait to not being able to listen to music while i charge my phone at night

I love when, for example, a girl gets in your car and demands the aux only to go "Well jokes on me, I forgot I can't use those"

[QUOTE=Lazore;52654304]Big Bluetooth is behind it. no jack and a dumb dongle makes more people buy more bluetooth headsets and buds[/QUOTE] Nope, just apple They own beats which is a major headphone brand, so they're trying to push the market to where they want

[QUOTE=Elspin;52655352]As opposed to what alternative exactly? If you were at school listening to music and needed to charge your phone, would you just blast it out of the speakers in public? I don't get where you're coming from here[/QUOTE] Rarely is the need to tune in so big that you can't just wait a while - but I get through a day with one charge, so I'm biased.

Wireless headphones are the way of the future, and removing the headphone jack just forces companies to get the quality on par with wired headphones. I bought a pair of airpods for my 6s and haven't even used any other headphones since. The sound quality is at least as good as the ones that come with the phone, and the battery life is phenomenal(the carrying case that they come with charges them as well, so you probably have at least 24hrs or more battery life in them). I have a pair of Bose quiet comfort 20's, that sound phenomenal, but the wire turns me away from using them.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52656192]Wireless headphones are the way of the future, and removing the headphone jack just forces companies to get the quality on par with wired headphones. I bought a pair of airpods for my 6s and haven't even used any other headphones since. The sound quality is at least as good as the ones that come with the phone, and the battery life is phenomenal(the carrying case that they come with charges them as well, so you probably have at least 24hrs or more battery life in them). I have a pair of Bose quiet comfort 20's, that sound phenomenal, but the wire turns me away from using them.[/QUOTE] It'll be a long time before wireless headphones and earbuds are anywhere near as simple and reliable as old fashioned cables ones. Look, most of the people I know at work can't get their head around shit like wireless keyboards, idk how they'll cope with wireless headphones. [editline]7th September 2017[/editline] Then you'll have audiophiles who do shit like plug in portable dac/amps to their bloody phone.

[QUOTE=Elstumpo;52656259]It'll be a long time before wireless headphones and earbuds are anywhere near as simple and reliable as old fashioned cables ones. Look, most of the people I know at work can't get their head around shit like wireless keyboards, idk how they'll cope with wireless headphones.[/QUOTE] Oh I'm sure it'll take ages for it to take off within the general public, but in the case of my airpods, those things are crazy reliable. I expected them to cut out every now and then, or not connect at all, but nope, they've never had issues with either.

[QUOTE=Elstumpo;52656259]It'll be a long time before wireless headphones and earbuds are anywhere near as simple and reliable as old fashioned cables ones.[/QUOTE] Which is a pretty good validation for removing the jack in the iphone considering they just massively widened the market for wireless audio...

[QUOTE=MedicWine;52656275]Which is a pretty good validation for removing the jack in the iphone considering they just massively widened the market for wireless audio...[/QUOTE] If automotive companies stop making their cars with radios with aux ports or gps then they massively widened the market for car radios and gps but that doesnt make it a fair or good idea.

[QUOTE=MedicWine;52656275]Which is a pretty good validation for removing the jack in the iphone considering they just massively widened the market for wireless audio...[/QUOTE] yeah man forcing people to pay way more just to listen to audio is pretty awesome its not like these devices are already massively expensive at all

[QUOTE=J!NX;52656391]yeah man forcing people to pay way more just to listen to audio is pretty awesome its not like these devices are already massively expensive at all[/QUOTE] Like, what is the point of having audio output be digital instead of analog?, analog is much simpler and cheaper. The only reason I can think of is that they want to lock it down somehow, which can only be done with digital.

Due to factors such as signal quality and reliability, wireless headphones will never truly replace wired ones. They will always be a convenience at best. It's like wifi vs. ethernet. I get the benefit (no wires), but that's basically just one relatively small benefit with a decent amount of tradeoffs (signal quality/reliability, sound quality, having to charge your headphones). Not to mention wired headphones require absolutely no setup, whereas you have to dig around in your phone's settings to get wireless headphones to even register. Now, replacing the 3.5mm jack with something like USB-C is something I wouldn't mind. You're essentially replacing an old standard with a new standard which makes sense, and most modern phones and PCs these days are starting to use USB-C. The only outlier is Apple who will probably never stop using Lightning or whatever alternative they come up with for USB-C for their iPhones, and that will only confuse and complicate things. The day people start ignoring Apple (unlikely) or they day that Apple starts using USB-C for their iPhones is the day that we can maybe talk about changing the wired standard for headphones.

As someone who has been fixing phones for the last three years I have seen the travesties that Apple has performed. And not just in terms of fucking their consumer base (Touch Disease, Error 53, Macbook GPU failures). This video helps demonstrate a little bit of the steps they've taken to eliminate the headphone jack when the truth is it could have been implemented all along, while also maintaining the same exact features. Things go way, way beyond that. Touch Disease is far and away the most glaring problem, and while it IS a problem that has been fixed (in the sense it won't happen on models past the iPhone 6+), there is still absolutely no shortage of shit Apple boards thanks to shit design and shit manufacturing and shit care in how they are refurbished. It's not uncommon for Apple to sell people refurbished iPads and the like that come back from their refurbishing centers with reworked PMICs with no underfill following a liquid damage repair. As a technician that works on these things nobody in their right mind would sell a liquid damaged device even if you did go through it and think you got the problem fixed. Liquid damage works in very unpredictable ways and there is absolutely NO way to guarantee function after it happens. But to Apple it's not that big of a deal. In terms of design, the 6S, 6S+, and even the 7's have absolute piles of shit for their display PMUs and backlight drivers. The official Apple in-house name for this is Chestnut, and it's a piece of trash. Half-backlight on the 6S+ is insanely common. The problem in question is the actual assembly process of how these components are installed and soldered to the board, at least in my own professional opinion. 9 times out of 10 a BGA chip failure originates from oxidized pads, which could be prevented with adequate manufacturing and assembly techniques. But nah, if 800 or 900 units make it out and work for at least the warranty period it's okay. And we'll charge the people who come back with those problems too. Because it's not a defect. It's not our fault if a slight jolt from accidentally dropping a phone disturbs the array. And for what it's worth the IP67 rating for liquid resistance is complete and total bullshit. Getting IP67 was pitched as the main reason for Apple choosing to exclude a headphone jack. Which is complete bullshit. The lightning port by itself serves as a region for liquid ingress. I know from experience. The whole move is to push and sell Lightning MFI certified cables and accessories. It's a brilliant business strategy but ultimately absolutely stupid from a consumer perspective. What's next, a phone that does everything but be a phone?

[QUOTE=eirexe;52656475]Like, what is the point of having audio output be digital instead of analog?, analog is much simpler and cheaper. The only reason I can think of is that they want to lock it down somehow, which can only be done with digital.[/QUOTE] [quote="The Verge"]With digital audio, Saunders added, software and device makers could help cheaper earbuds take advantage of features reserved for more expensive headphones, like noise cancelling and bass boosting.[/quote] [url]https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/17/12519936/intel-usb-type-c-headphone-jack-replacement-idf-2016[/url]

I didn't say it made sense from a technical perspective. Just that it makes Apple more money to do it this way.

Wireless anything is garbage compared to their wired alternatives IMO. And I really fail to understand how a pair of wireless earbuds can be more convenient than a regular pair, especially nowadays when the cords are generally relatively tangle free. It's just another stupid thing you have to remember to charge regularly, something which can be complete ass if you're on a long roadtrip or something. Not to mention how easy it is to drop or lose them. They also cost like twice as much. Apple's decision to remove the 3.5mm plug was really fucking stupid no matter how you twist and turn it, would've had no problem with it if they did it in favour of USB-C, but of course they had to be special little snowflakes and do it for the dumbest reason possible. Imagine if a motherboard manufacturer suddenly went "Our new models aren't going to be equipped with any USB ports, wireless peripherals are the future!!!"

I wouldn't remove the 3.5mm jack in favor of USB-C either, being able to spin the jack in the porn to untangle cables is too useful. optimally for me every phone would have an USB-C connection (or two??) and a 3.5mm jack. people who want to use wireless can use wireless.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;52656875]being able to spin the jack in the porn to untangle cables is too useful[/QUOTE] I don't think I've ever done this, but even so I think that's quite a random reason to keep it. I think having 2 USB-C ports is fine, that way you solve the charging and listening problem, and people can choose whether they want wired or wireless

Is it possible.to have two USB ports? One for headphone and one for charging at the same time? I wouldn't mind removing the headphone jack if a phone had 2 USB ports [editline]7th September 2017[/editline] Oh I see it's already been mentioned above. Would be good to have one at the top of the phone and one at the bottom

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52656192]Wireless headphones are the way of the future, and removing the headphone jack just forces companies to get the quality on par with wired headphones. I bought a pair of airpods for my 6s and haven't even used any other headphones since. The sound quality is at least as good as the ones that come with the phone, and the battery life is phenomenal(the carrying case that they come with charges them as well, so you probably have at least 24hrs or more battery life in them). I have a pair of Bose quiet comfort 20's, that sound phenomenal, but the wire turns me away from using them.[/QUOTE] Nah, as an electrical engineer you want to try and reduce your BOM costs whilst maximizing reliability. Economies of scale comes into play here 3.5mm jacks and all their perhipherals based upon that standard are cheap as fuck and have stood the test of time, that drives institutional inertia and market forces. Why change or remove something that has excellent value towards the end consumer and provides plenty of legacy use? Why force yet more expensive secondary hardware so the consumer can do basic tasks that didn't need extraneous hardware in the previous generation? Why go for thin as paper phones when you can just settle at the ideal thickness of 7 - 9mm? Why not K.I.S.S? Because Apple doesn't innovate, they change for arbitrary reasons which is a sleazy way to increase their profits. Apple doesn't have the end consumer in mind.

Apple do some greedy things, and with the Lightning cable replacing the headphone jack, you're right in saying they don't have the end consumer in mind [I]in this situation[/I]. However you make it sound like Apple are a hugely evil company set out to make everyone poor, when in reality they're pretty much just as greedy as any other big company. Apple hasn't innovated much recently, but it's hard to ignore that they have done in the past. Either way, whether you hate Apple or not, you haven't really explained why the 3.5mm jack should be kept, aside from for legacy reasons and price, albeit if the headphone jack was replaced with USB-C, would price still be an issue considering it wouldn't be using a proprietary port?

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52657636]Apple do some greedy things, and with the Lightning cable replacing the headphone jack, you're right in saying they don't have the end consumer in mind [I]in this situation[/I]. However you make it sound like Apple are a hugely evil company set out to make everyone poor, when in reality they're pretty much just as greedy as any other big company. Apple hasn't innovated much recently, but it's hard to ignore that they have done in the past. Either way, whether you hate Apple or not, you haven't really explained why the 3.5mm jack should be kept, aside from for legacy reasons and price, albeit if the headphone jack was replaced with USB-C, would price still be an issue considering it wouldn't be using a proprietary port?[/QUOTE] The way how an innovation works is you develop a new standard and have a set of hardware that is able to use that standard on launch with the ability for improvement and upgrade over time. The 3.5mm jack is a multipurpose port. It's capable of handling monophonic, stereo, and even single plug hands-free headsets. And the jack did not have to be seriously redesigned or re-engineered for this. The design was simply upgraded to have additional support for more conductors on the plugs while keeping the length the same. Replacing it with anything doesn't make sense. It's an already established standard that has been tried and tested for years. Trying something new is okay. But don't sacrifice functionality for it. This is purely a push for Apple to license more lightning cable accessories. In the case of a similar USB-C system it still wouldn't make any sense. There's no point in sacrificing functionality if there's already something that exists that does the same job and exists as it's own thing. It is counterintuitive from a design and engineering perspective. EDIT And on an unrelated note, the barometric vent that needed to be removed to make space for the headphone jack is not important. Obviously their other phones that had headphone jacks and the same exact speaker layout worked fine. And they too have internal barometers. Even my S5 has one.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52657636]Apple do some greedy things, and with the Lightning cable replacing the headphone jack, you're right in saying they don't have the end consumer in mind [I]in this situation[/I]. However you make it sound like Apple are a hugely evil company set out to make everyone poor, when in reality they're pretty much just as greedy as any other big company. Apple hasn't innovated much recently, but it's hard to ignore that they have done in the past. Either way, whether you hate Apple or not, you haven't really explained why the 3.5mm jack should be kept, aside from for legacy reasons and price, albeit if the headphone jack was replaced with USB-C, would price still be an issue considering it wouldn't be using a proprietary port?[/QUOTE] It would be, digital headphones are always going to be more expensive because they need a DAC in them. People can't hear digital signals, there's gotta be something in the line to convert it to an analog signal for the headphone/earbud drivers, and if the phone is outputting a digital signal through USB-C, that means the DAC has to be in the headphones. More components = more cost.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52657636]Apple do some greedy things, and with the Lightning cable replacing the headphone jack, you're right in saying they don't have the end consumer in mind [I]in this situation[/I]. However you make it sound like Apple are a hugely evil company set out to make everyone poor, when in reality they're pretty much just as greedy as any other big company. Apple hasn't innovated much recently, but it's hard to ignore that they have done in the past. Either way, whether you hate Apple or not, you haven't really explained why the 3.5mm jack should be kept, aside from for legacy reasons and price, albeit if the headphone jack was replaced with USB-C, would price still be an issue considering it wouldn't be using a proprietary port?[/QUOTE] When you transition to new standards you don't go cold turkey and kill off legacy ports/standards without giving some transition period or incentive for consumers to make the switch. That's why there's the Product Adoption Curve: [IMG]http://cdn.free-power-point-templates.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/new-product-diffusion-model-diagram-ppt.jpg[/IMG] I'm not just giving a hate boner for Apple simply to be a contrarian, on the contrary, they've made some great strides when it came to the iPod and the iPhone. Both were smash hits not only in terms of having the consumer in mind but being industry leaders. I generally dislike obfuscating what should be a simple task with extraneous hardware if the cost/benefit isn't there. i.e. I want to play an mp3 from my device and hear the sound waves. [B]Wired:[/B] Process: mp3 decoder chip/software DAC -> audio amplifier -> headphone speakers. Pros: Simpler Hardware flow, easier to build/design/buy/debug, economies of scale in both price and ubiquity. Cons: Cord quality can vary depending upon headphone manufacturer, Cord can get caught (Just tuck it underneath your shirt) [B]Wireless:[/B] Process: mp3 decoder chip/software -> Bluetooth transciever ~~~~~ Bluetooth transciever -> DAC -> audio amp -> ear pod speakers + battery/battery management. Pros: No cord and easier to move about Cons: Harder to build/design/buy/debug, could be interference issues, usually have to apply for an extra FCC license in order to commercialize, battery could fail (depending upon wireless speaker manufacture if repair is easy or not). Of course this is my opinion because I'm an engineer who likes function over form but looking from a company perspective does cutting legacy stuff split the market share or in worse case loose market share? These are the questions that Apple ought to have asked itself. Apple already had a good balance of legacy and new tech with both wired and wireless audio solutions in their 6S which is great because redundancy and more options = more market share = more money. It benefits both the consumer and Apple themselves.

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52655108]Future computers will have USB-C too, and the "why" is more just the whole fact USB-C exists; it bundles what needed several ports before, into one port. Not that I'm necessarily defending Apple's decision, but I do like the idea of a future where I can have 1 port for any kind of peripheral[/QUOTE] Jack of all trades, master of none.

Is it the master of none? Can't really say I've looked at the downsides of USB-C, though

[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52657636]Apple do some greedy things, and with the Lightning cable replacing the headphone jack, you're right in saying they don't have the end consumer in mind [I]in this situation[/I]. However you make it sound like Apple are a hugely evil company set out to make everyone poor, when in reality they're pretty much just as greedy as any other big company. Apple hasn't innovated much recently, but it's hard to ignore that they have done in the past. Either way, whether you hate Apple or not, you haven't really explained why the 3.5mm jack should be kept, aside from for legacy reasons and price, albeit if the headphone jack was replaced with USB-C, would price still be an issue considering it wouldn't be using a proprietary port?[/QUOTE] Minijack is the connector between your device of choice and the direct copper wires to the drivers of your headphones or earbuds. It's so simple yet well functioning (if following the design speculations instead of cheapening it with corner cutting and cheap Chinesium) that many people don't appreciate the concept of it because marketing can't slap a fuckload of buzzwords to it. The fact the only big change from its inception as the 6.3mm jack is the fact it got shrunk down to the 3.5mm mini-jack design speaks volumes of its longevity. Don't replace something "just because", replace it if it is fatally flawed, and all proposed replacements to mini-jack have fatal flaws it doesn't suffer from, rendering them obsolete before they even rendered mini-jack obsolete in the first place.

lightning at this point is basically just a way to make sure you have to keep giving money directly to apple for peripherals in the same way the 3ds (charger input) and vita (memory cards and charger input) do, the memory cards are expensive but both ship with chargers that last a while with decent build quality. apple builds their plug-in accessories cheap on purpose and charge a huge amount for replacements as cheap as the one that came with your phone. It's not even introducing a standard, they just want a physical "Apple DRM plug" that they change every few years once the ecosystem becomes flooded with a wide array of third party accessories that instantly become useless mountains of electronic waste

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52656262]Oh I'm sure it'll take ages for it to take off within the general public, but in the case of my airpods, those things are crazy reliable. I expected them to cut out every now and then, or not connect at all, but nope, they've never had issues with either.[/QUOTE] I can't believe you spent 200$+ on wireless earphones when you can find something that works just as well below 100$