Are video games sexist? - General

[QUOTE=Binladen34;46036948]I don't know how you can say the industry caters to either gender. Of course there are targeted demographic games, but you're going to ignore the games that are purely artistic vision? Metro series, Portal series, HL series? They're story driven artistic narratives and don't have a target demographic.[/QUOTE] Or red dead redemption, where all the women (and men for that matter) are pretty ugly because that's how it was without makeup and with worse hygiene.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46036935]Did you watch the video?? She brings that up. tl;dr of the video: core gamers are still mostly male. Male protagonists, violence, and sexy women sell to this audience. Why are people surprised that that is what males are interested in buying?[/QUOTE] Your avatar fits so perfect

[QUOTE=dannass;46036939]No i didn't watch it. I just entered the thread to give my 2 cents on the title. Sorry. But i guess i was pretty on point either way.[/QUOTE] So you didn't watch the video but criticize it? Isn't that a bannable offense like not reading an article posted in SH?

Don't you think it is ironic that most people that care about this are white straight men

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46037454]i think games'd do better in the 2014st century if they tried to focus on more showy stories like journey and shit, or games with (don't groan please) simple narratives that have little to no player interaction, giving the writers a story that's way easier to tackle. like, i don't think any interactive player choicey game i've ever played has stacked up against a game with a focused narrative. for eg, even tho new vegas is my favorite game ever, i think supergiant's transistor trumps its story in every way because the story flows at a pace the developers intended, and the only real choices you have outside of how you actually kill dudes is small little collectible dealies.[/QUOTE] What is the point of playing a game if you don't actually play it? The most important aspect of a game is gameplay.

[QUOTE=dannass;46036923]Yes they are and we have come to terms with it years ago. A fantacy world where guys are buff and full of testo and beautiful girls with little to no actual useful armor is something we as a culture have created ourselves. Sex sells, just look at all the other forms of media around you.[/QUOTE] Between the retarded post and the retarded avatar I can't tell if this entire profile is being ironic or not.

Kind of idiotic and ironic how some get pissed off over something so trivial such as sexism in games. Now I say ironic, because it's sort of a hypocritical stance some people take. What I mean by this, is that some people get offended over sexism in games, yet, are sexist themselves. Cast aside this tad "issue", and it'll be like no one gave a fuck from the beginning. I wonder if this is how wars start. Anger over something so little is not logical thinking really. It's more like [I]you want other people to agree with your beliefs so you complain hoping to get noticed. Then you proceed to have a child fit about how you want to change something you think everyone else doesn't like because you don't.[/I] That's kinda in general really. Not talking about the video much when I say that because I haven't watched it yet.

About time an autorithy on the matter voiced the only reasonable side of the discussion.

Reminder that the American Enterprise Institute is a conservative think tank and agreeing with them is bad and not good.

[QUOTE=froztshock;46037254]I have to say, this video really does strike a nasty cord with me. It uses all of the worst arguments which can be made for the side of the issue that it supports, and really you should be wary of any video wherein the speaker goes out of their way to [b]explicitly compliment your demographic[/b]. I don't really agree with what's to be said here. I do think that there are some things about videogames which unfairly represent women. I think that a lot of people who argue on the internet for better representation of women in videogames utterly suck at it, and I honestly do think that it's their fault that there's now such a backlash against the concept, but are we really going to start praising a fox-news level source because it makes us feel good? These are literally people that shore up causes like climate change denial. They've only made this video because they feel like they've got an opportunity to score points now that the so many gamers have been alienated by feminists.[/QUOTE] I especially liked the part where she conflated violence, racism, and homophobia in a video titled "are video games sexist". She's straw manning everyone who would say there is a culture of sexism in video games by characterizing their arguments as "games make males racist, misogynist, homophobic". But that's not the argument people make. Even if you removed "racist" and "homophobic", which aren't relevant, the argument isn't that games make men sexist. So she's building up an argument against a statement that nobody is even making. [editline]21st September 2014[/editline] Why do we need this video? She and her group are doing it for obvious reasons—they're a far-right political activist group who sees a subculture full of people who feel disenfranchised by what they perceive as far-left feminists and want to recruit those men to their far-right cause. Why is it OK for her to highlight a few games with female protagonists, say "games are becoming more inclusive", and not OK for someone like Anita Sarkeesian to point out many games in which females are damsels in distress or sex objects, because in that case "but it's cherry picking"? And ask yourself this: why didn't she ever answer the question posed in the title of her video? Why didn't she ever answer the question, "Are video games sexist?" Why did she twist and turn her way through talking about violence, and then racism and homophobia, and then through massive straw man arguments but then never once actually answer whether video games, the media and culture around it, are sexist?

I don't see why we can't have games that fulfill both ends of the spectrum. There should be able to be games that don't adhere to pandering to all audiences because a lot of times a game designer is just making a game, not a statement. Forcing them to change their game to fit the proposed "issues" just make these things end up being out of place and tacked on. Likewise, it's fine if a game is at the opposite side and is designed around it - a good example is the first No One Lives Forever - the main character has to overcome much sexism throughout the game but it's written into the story in a really good way that also fits the way women were percieved in the 60s as well, but the writing in that game is also top notch so the writers obviously knew how to do it properly. I think once we start seeing a bigger abundance of more competent writers we will start seeing games that tackle the issue well without being forced to change things just for the sake of avoiding possible sexism, while the games that have no focus on that could co-exist just fine in that situation as well because there would already be more games that deal with those issues.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;46038115][t]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JneANVtyD6U/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Having stuff like this in a game kinda tilts the demographic towards teenage boys. But your point still stands, there are a lot of games that don't cater to a certain demographic.[/QUOTE] "Oh no, a sex scene, surely this game must cater to horny teenage boys, they'll totally buy our games more if they know there's a nipple slip six hours into the game !" Also, Metro Last Light is heavily inspired by Metro 2034. It's not a direct adaptation, it's got some fairly heavy changes, and one of the things they changed is that originally, Artyom doesn't bang Anna (hell I don't even think she exists in the book), he does however fuck basically the entire brothel where in the game you can only get a lapdance. So, no, the game doesn't "tilt the demographic towards teenage boys" because of a nipple slip. It simply tries to stay close to the source material, and the source material is a fairly adult book with some mature content.

[QUOTE=Gallus;46038995]Reminder that the American Enterprise Institute is a conservative think tank and agreeing with them is bad and not good.[/QUOTE] You're an idiot. Even if they have other ideas that you may not agree with, there's no reason why you can't agree with them on another topic if they have valid points.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;46037351]because an argument has a fallacy doesnt mean its a shit argument[/QUOTE] uh yes actually that DOES mean its a shit argument.

Yes games are made by human being so they can have flaw however it's up to the player to keep what he watches inside him or just try to perform it in real life.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;46039303]You're an idiot. Even if they have other ideas that you may not agree with, there's no reason why you can't agree with them on another topic if they have valid points.[/QUOTE] No you see, if you are a lefty, you have to always disagree with someone who isn't left.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46036935]Did you watch the video?? She brings that up. tl;dr of the video: core gamers are still mostly male. Male protagonists, violence, and sexy women sell to this audience. Why are people surprised that that is what males are interested in buying?[/QUOTE] I don't think people are surprised though? They want to change video game culture because they disagree with it, that doesn't mean they're surprised by it

the argument is in full swing, we have liftoff

[QUOTE=Binladen34;46036948]I don't know how you can say the industry caters to either gender. Of course there are targeted demographic games, but you're going to ignore the games that are purely artistic vision? Metro series, Portal series, HL series? They're story driven artistic narratives and don't have a target demographic.[/QUOTE] No, every form of media has a target demographic. Hell, the three series you mentioned are pretty similar (sci-fi, post apocalyptic, a non heavily stylized artstyle, silent protagonists, etc) and are definitely aimed at a similar audience. Who is this audience? Well, since it seems like those were the first examples you remembered I'm tempted to say "people like you". Just because a target demographic isn't as obvious as "14 year old boys" or "45 year old housewives" it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Titles retarded, some good points, some shit ones. Video games are not sexist. The entire notion of the title being "Are video games sexist" is sensationalist and starting off with a generalizing question. A video game CAN be sexist, yet for the life of me I cannot think of any video game I have ever paid for that was sexist/racist/misogynistic, as in the entire game, a character can be those things and personally it usually ends up for the better of the story if done right. I mean those with there right definitions and not made up ones. People always say games are sexist/racist/misogynistic/etc... yet does anyone have any examples of an entire game being that? Seriously I just want to know some of the games that are those things. Show me a game where a focus is to hate on real world gender. Show me a game where a focus is to hate on real world races the entire time. Show me a game where a focus is hating women. Oh yeah, no adult games for examples, so no porn games/hentai/fetish games that have very very obvious targets. Also porn is not exclusive to games so its moot to harp on adult games.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039239]She and her group are doing it for obvious reasons—they're a far-right political activist group who sees a subculture full of people who feel disenfranchised by what they perceive as far-left feminists and want to recruit those men to their far-right cause. [/quote] ..at the risk of coming forth as an asshole, have you ever been checked for psychosis?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46039751]Show me a game where a focus is to hate on real world gender. Show me a game where a focus is to hate on real world races the entire time. Show me a game where a focus is hating women.[/QUOTE] Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

Everything can be misogynistic and sexist. Viewers eyes are the ones to judge.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:("[/QUOTE] Misogyny noun 1. hatred of women from miso- hate + gunē woman. Sexism noun 1. discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men sex + ism, on the model of racism. Am I being pedantic? Is it the language barrier? I am sure there might be better words to describe whatever your view is, but 'woman hating, oppressive and discriminating' seems far-fetched. And I truly hope it isn't your view on the matter.

I JUST WANNA PLAY VIDEO GAMES I JUST WANNA PLAY VIDEO GAMES

[QUOTE=Combine 177;46040044]Everything can be misogynistic and sexist. Viewers eyes are the ones to judge.[/QUOTE] Wrong, extremely detrimental view to have if you are trying to be progressive with that shit. Making up your own definitions and mislabeling, which is a huge problem right now, is fucked up and wrong and helps no one. Its just more mislabeling and causes nothing but more hate. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:("[/QUOTE] Yes they really are, cant seem to find a dictionary that disagrees, or do words like sexist and misogyny have special treatment because you can use them to fit an argument you want? Well not sexism, thats gender and not specific to females but same rules apply. You cant change it to fit what you want.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:("[/QUOTE] You can't just change the definition of words how you like it. No wonder there is a communication problem between you and all the other people.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46037409]i have a big problem with the armors, not just the gross boobs armor that a lot of MMOs get. in some games the artists make female armor, and male armor sometimes, look like trash by trying to make the character's femininity or masculinity more obvious for some reason, which [b]i think[/b] is entirely unnecessary [/QUOTE] Ya well, I think that complaining that an artist rendered a female character to be sexually appealing is one of the more insignificant complaints you can make. A woman in a scanty outfit is not sexism or misogyny. Tasteless? Maybe. But to pin an culturally significant problem on an armor design is. Wow.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:("[/QUOTE] yo max I bet you hate us frenchies and our constant sexual innuendos into everything chill out man

[QUOTE=lapsus_;46040046]Misogyny noun 1. hatred of women from miso- hate + gunē woman. Sexism noun 1. discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men sex + ism, on the model of racism. Am I being pedantic? Is it the language barrier? I am sure there might be better words to describe whatever your view is, but 'woman hating, oppressive and discriminating' seems far-fetched. And I truly hope it isn't your view on the matter.[/QUOTE] That is pretty pedantic. Is homophobia only ever a literal fear of homosexual people? [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46040126]Wrong, extremely detrimental view to have if you are trying to be progressive with that shit. Making up your own definitions and mislabeling, which is a huge problem right now, is fucked up and wrong and helps no one. Its just more mislabeling and causes nothing but more hate. Yes they really are, cant seem to find a dictionary that disagrees, or do words like sexist and misogyny have special treatment because you can use them to fit an argument you want? Well not sexism, thats gender and not specific to females but same rules apply. You cant change it to fit what you want.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/misogyny[/URL] [quote]Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women:[/quote] Regardless, relying on a single definition of a word in a dictionary is pointless because no two dictonaries are the same. Rather its the ideas being conveyed that are important. You also are practically never able to capture an idea within a couple of sentences