Are video games sexist? - General

[QUOTE=Valnar;46040319]That is pretty pedantic. Is homophobia only ever a literal fear of homosexual people? [URL]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/misogyny[/URL] Regardless, relying on a single definition of a word in a dictionary is pointless because no two dictonaries are the same. Rather its the ideas being conveyed that are important. You also are practically never able to capture an idea within a couple of sentences[/QUOTE] 2 dictionaries arent gonna be the same, yet every single definition I found in a dictonary for sexism/misonogy were either exactly the same, or the same but differently worded. The oxford dictionary definition is just the more defined I would said from the others I saw, but still the same. Definitions are extremely important in this type of shit, misusing them does NOTHING but cause more problems.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46040126]Wrong, extremely detrimental view to have if you are trying to be progressive with that shit. Making up your own definitions and mislabeling, which is a huge problem right now, is fucked up and wrong and helps no one. Its just more mislabeling and causes nothing but more hate. Yes they really are, cant seem to find a dictionary that disagrees, or do words like sexist and misogyny have special treatment because you can use them to fit an argument you want? Well not sexism, thats gender and not specific to females but same rules apply. You cant change it to fit what you want.[/QUOTE] Misogyny, the hatred of women, is used to describe not just red-faced boiling angry hate... but also the belief that women are inferior to men. Saying that "A woman's place is in the home" in a soothing, Morgan Freeman tone of voice may not sound hateful... it may even sound loving and appreciative, but the underlying assumption supporting that statement is that women do not belong in the public sphere. Women should not be making decisions in politics or the courtroom, and good grief keep that woman away from a laboratory because she's incapable of making rational decisions and she's going to screw up our data. These beliefs formed social and legal structures that prevented women from getting educations, fulfilling their dreams, voting (remember that?), and even entering in to contracts or owning property because of coverture laws. If it helps to think of it this way, consider a slave owner. Some slave owners reported loving their slaves and believed they were doing the right thing because dark skinned people were savages who were genetically incapable of serious education and higher thought. By feeding, housing, and working them, these slave owners believed they were doing the right thing - not a hateful thing. But I think we can all agree that even though the slave owner may not have felt a furious, red-faced hate in his heart, this kind of belief in inherent inferiority is a very real kind of hate.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46040432]Misogyny, the hatred of women, is used to describe not just red-faced boiling angry hate... but also the belief that women are inferior to men. Saying that "A woman's place is in the home" in a soothing, Morgan Freeman tone of voice may not sound hateful... it may even sound loving and appreciative, but the underlying assumption supporting that statement is that women do not belong in the public sphere. Women should not be making decisions in politics or the courtroom, and good grief keep that woman away from a laboratory because she's incapable of making rational decisions and she's going to screw up our data. These beliefs formed social and legal structures that prevented women from getting educations, fulfilling their dreams, voting (remember that?), and even entering in to contracts or owning property because of coverture laws. If it helps to think of it this way, consider a slave owner. Some slave owners reported loving their slaves and believed they were doing the right thing because dark skinned people were savages who were genetically incapable of serious education and higher thought. By feeding, housing, and working them, these slave owners believed they were doing the right thing - not a hateful thing. But I think we can all agree that even though the slave owner may not have felt a furious, red-faced hate in his heart, this kind of belief in inherent inferiority is a very real kind of hate.[/QUOTE] Now where does that apply anywhere in video games?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46040383]2 dictionaries arent gonna be the same, yet every single definition I found in a dictonary for sexism/misonogy were either exactly the same, or the same but differently worded. The oxford dictionary definition is just the more defined I would said from the others I saw, but still the same. Definitions are extremely important in this type of shit, misusing them does NOTHING but cause more problems.[/QUOTE] But the original thing that was being responded to was you saying "show me a game where the focus is hating women". A prejudice doesn't necessarily imply a hatred.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46040432]Misogyny, the hatred of women, is used to describe not just red-faced boiling angry hate... but also the belief that women are inferior to men. Saying that "A woman's place is in the home" in a soothing, Morgan Freeman tone of voice may not sound hateful... it may even sound loving and appreciative, but the underlying assumption supporting that statement is that women do not belong in the public sphere. Women should not be making decisions in politics or the courtroom, and good grief keep that woman away from a laboratory because she's incapable of making rational decisions and she's going to screw up our data. These beliefs formed social and legal structures that prevented women from getting educations, fulfilling their dreams, voting (remember that?), and even entering in to contracts or owning property because of coverture laws. If it helps to think of it this way, consider a slave owner. Some slave owners reported loving their slaves and believed they were doing the right thing because dark skinned people were savages who were genetically incapable of serious education and higher thought. By feeding, housing, and working them, these slave owners believed they were doing the right thing - not a hateful thing. But I think we can all agree that even though the slave owner may not have felt a furious, red-faced hate in his heart, this kind of belief in inherent inferiority is a very real kind of hate.[/QUOTE] In terms of dictionaries, that would fit more under the definition of sexism up there, but let's stop splitting hairs about given definitions, as they're not always right today when words change meanings so quickly. In my opinion they pretty much describe similar things. I think misogyny is just an especially great and intentional discrimination when compared to sexism, which can occur involuntarily.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46040432]Misogyny, the hatred of women, is used to describe not just red-faced boiling angry hate... but also the belief that women are inferior to men. Saying that "A woman's place is in the home" in a soothing, Morgan Freeman tone of voice may not sound hateful... it may even sound loving and appreciative, but the underlying assumption supporting that statement is that women do not belong in the public sphere. Women should not be making decisions in politics or the courtroom, and good grief keep that woman away from a laboratory because she's incapable of making rational decisions and she's going to screw up our data. These beliefs formed social and legal structures that prevented women from getting educations, fulfilling their dreams, voting (remember that?), and even entering in to contracts or owning property because of coverture laws. If it helps to think of it this way, consider a slave owner. Some slave owners reported loving their slaves and believed they were doing the right thing because dark skinned people were savages who were genetically incapable of serious education and higher thought. By feeding, housing, and working them, these slave owners believed they were doing the right thing - not a hateful thing. But I think we can all agree that even though the slave owner may not have felt a furious, red-faced hate in his heart, this kind of belief in inherent inferiority is a very real kind of hate.[/QUOTE] Not misongy Max, actually if you think WOMEN are inferior then that is actually sexist, you are thinking a gender is inferior. Thats why misogny exists Max as a word, to describe the hatred of women and not the feeling of them being inferior due to be women. You could also argue what you are saying is also chauvinism yet in a negative light. But no, not misogyny. Your slavery argument is a whole new can of beans, what about the people who took in slaves knowing they were equal yet also know the truth that sending them off and being free in the society they were in would be 100x worse than having them safe on there property with food/shelter. Im talking about the people with did this with nothing but good hearts and didnt treat them like slaves, instead took slaves in to save them a life of shit. Legally owned as slaves for protection and a better life? You like to make the world really black and white dude, like with your example you making it seem like slavery was some construct America invented and only involved blacks. Id love to refute on why your example is so bad but its just gonna be more circles off bullshit. But Slavery is nothing like misogyny, even the things that surround slavery are so different that you cant make an example with it to something so defined like misogyny.

[QUOTE=Valnar;46040319] [URL]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/misogyny[/URL] Regardless, relying on a single definition of a word in a dictionary is pointless because no two dictonaries are the same. Rather its the ideas being conveyed that are important. You also are practically never able to capture an idea within a couple of sentences[/QUOTE] You do realize that definition boils down to "hatred of women," right? Think about it like this, racism also involves ingrained prejudice, in this case, against a different race or races of people. Misogyny and racism are hatred, these are simple facts. Look, until there is a game that explicitly states that I am supposed to hate another human being because they have a vagina and breasts, then I will show you a misogynist game. On the flip side, there have been sexist games. There have been games with misogyny. Just look at Custer's Revenge, which is pretty much a rape simulator. These things exist, but we shouldn't damn an entire industry because of a few awful games. I hate that mentality. I hate how people pick apart games just because they have prostitutes in them. Prostitution has been around since the early days of the bible and it still exists today. Why blast Red Dead Redemption for it? Brothels were rather common in the west. And arguing about it in GTA is like arguing about the criminal elements within. Games like that exist for people to blow off steam. Most normal people wouldn't dream of gunning down ranks of policemen and robbing a fucking bank in real life, but the games allow us to do that without reprisal. And so what if you can beat a hooker to death with a baseball bat? You can do that to anyone on the street. It's not sexism, it's equal opportunity. Besides, it's not like the game tells us it's okay to go out and do that to a real person. Most rational people have that all figured out.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46040465]Now where does that apply anywhere in video games?[/QUOTE] Id say that applies to games that are heavily story based and dont have women involved at all, or if they are involved then just as sex objects in the background/to be laughed/damsels in distress etc etc.. Just note I meant SOME games, not video games as a whole. There are plenty of games where there are women involved as fleshed out characters, or just games where neither men or women or whatever are shown being ''more involved than the other one'', aka games that usually arent heavily story based

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46040432]Misogyny, the hatred of women, is used to describe not just red-faced boiling angry hate... but also the belief that women are inferior to men. Saying that "A woman's place is in the home" in a soothing, Morgan Freeman tone of voice may not sound hateful... it may even sound loving and appreciative, but the underlying assumption supporting that statement is that women do not belong in the public sphere. Women should not be making decisions in politics or the courtroom, and good grief keep that woman away from a laboratory because she's incapable of making rational decisions and she's going to screw up our data. These beliefs formed social and legal structures that prevented women from getting educations, fulfilling their dreams, voting (remember that?), and even entering in to contracts or owning property because of coverture laws. If it helps to think of it this way, consider a slave owner. Some slave owners reported loving their slaves and believed they were doing the right thing because dark skinned people were savages who were genetically incapable of serious education and higher thought. By feeding, housing, and working them, these slave owners believed they were doing the right thing - not a hateful thing. But I think we can all agree that even though the slave owner may not have felt a furious, red-faced hate in his heart, this kind of belief in inherent inferiority is a very real kind of hate.[/QUOTE] And where does that happen in videogames? I don't remember any that openly encourage female inferiority. And let's be clear, a woman in a supporting role doesn't imply inferiority.

[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;46040588]You do realize that definition boils down to "hatred of women," right? Think about it like this, racism also involves ingrained prejudice, in this case, against a different race or races of people. Misogyny and racism are hatred, these are simple facts. Look, until there is a game that explicitly states that I am supposed to hate another human being because they have a vagina and breasts, then I will show you a misogynist game. On the flip side, there have been sexist games. There have been games with misogyny. Just look at Custer's Revenge, which is pretty much a rape simulator. These things exist, but we shouldn't damn an entire industry because of a few awful games. I hate that mentality. I hate how people pick apart games just because they have prostitutes in them. Prostitution has been around since the early days of the bible and it still exists today. Why blast Red Dead Redemption for it? Brothels were rather common in the west. And arguing about it in GTA is like arguing about the criminal elements within. Games like that exist for people to blow off steam. Most normal people wouldn't dream of gunning down ranks of policemen and robbing a fucking bank in real life, but the games allow us to do that without reprisal. And so what if you can beat a hooker to death with a baseball bat? You can do that to anyone on the street. It's not sexism, it's equal opportunity. Besides, it's not like the game tells us it's okay to go out and do that to a real person. Most rational people have that all figured out.[/QUOTE] I asked this earlier, does the definition of homophobia boil down to fear of homosexual people? In some ways yes, but it also means more than that. It extends to the prejudice that gets put on homosexual people. Its not damning the industry to point out these things, as much as its damning to the industry to point out other flaws in the game. It is a critique. The main critique also isn't the existence of those ideas, rather the overuse of them. And most people aren't saying that video games will literally turn you into a sexist person. Rather video games contribute to society's views (both the good and bad parts of video games) which is why there should be things like critiques. [QUOTE=The_J_Hat;46040638]And where does that happen in videogames? I don't remember any that openly encourage female inferiority. And let's be clear, a woman in a supporting role doesn't imply inferiority.[/QUOTE] You are treating video games as one-dimensional things. It isn't a simple binary thing, everything has different aspects to itself that build into its whole. A game can have both positive and negative attributes to it.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:("[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/MXUVCJj.png[/img] Breakin' parole.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46040519]But Slavery is nothing like misogyny, even the things that surround slavery are so different that you cant make an example with it to something so defined like misogyny.[/QUOTE] I fail to see how Slavery [I]isn't[/I] like misogyny. The patriarchy breaks women into humiliating subservience in a way not unsimilar to how the same straight white men broke and humiliated blacks. Even games that get hailed for "strong female characters" still support the patriarchy and female slavery. They don't condemn male-female relationships for being inherently abusive to females. Alyx Vance in Half-Life 2 is only there to praise the player instead of rightfully attacking and belittling them. etc.

[QUOTE=Valnar;46040663]I asked this earlier, does the definition of homophobia boil down to fear of homosexual people? In some ways yes, but it also means more than that. It extends to the prejudice that gets put on homosexual people. Its not damning the industry to point out these things, as much as its damning to the industry to point out other flaws in the game. It is a critique. The main critique also isn't the existence of those ideas, rather the overuse of them. And most people aren't saying that video games will literally turn you into a sexist person. Rather video games contribute to society's views (both the good and bad parts of video games) which is why there should be things like critiques.[/QUOTE] Would that extending prejudice just be considered prejudice? Where as homophobia can continue being what its definition is? You know, kind of how it is right now. Homophobia is literally a phobia(fear) of gay people, replace Homo(gay) with Arachno(Spider) and now you have Arachnophobia, the fear of spiders. Homophobia extends no further than being a fear of homosexuals, that is literally what the world means and no matter what you want to do, it wont change. The extension of homophobia and slapping things like hate/prejudice with the word is shit people do by themselves, the world itself doesnt mean that shit, but people like to think it does, hence why you probably think the word extends further. When dealing with things like this, you know non-slang type shit, or super interchangeable words, such as Fuck, and instead deal with words that are made up to mean something literally because thats what the words literally mean, then you literally cannot change the literal definition to fit your means. A word like homophobia is not open up to more meaning, its constructed off other words to form 1 singular meaning and nothing else. Anything more is just made up by people to fit there needs, which is a huge problem when trying to be progressive. Nothings more progressive than educating people, but false education is not progressive and only causes more problems. [editline]21st September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=LurkyLurker;46040742]I fail to see how Slavery [I]isn't[/I] like misogyny. The patriarchy breaks women into humiliating subservience in a way not unsimilar to how the same straight white men broke and humiliated blacks. Even games that get hailed for "strong female characters" still support the patriarchy and female slavery. They don't condemn male-female relationships for being inherently abusive to females. Alyx Vance in Half-Life 2 is only there to praise the player instead of rightfully attacking and belittling them. etc.[/QUOTE] So slavery is now a construct of straight white men and only there to humiliate blacks? Just fuck off if you seriously think this and fuck off even harder if you are seriously trying to compare misogyny and something like slavery. Its so fucking hilarious how quickly you are to throw out thousands of years of slavery in all different forms and reasons and ideas around it, only to use fucking American slavery to try and make some point that its just white men putting down other people. Apparently Straight white men only. Go get educated on slavery before trying to make any comprising to it, because slavery was not always about the big bad CIS whiteman putting down blacks. FYI, there are a lot of forms of slavery and not all are based on something like race/prejudice/hate.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46037067] the "who cares it's just X!" "argument" is the worst kind of mindset to have[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;44540626]my favorite pc gamers are the ones that go into threads about the consoles and go "please put this on pc or i will hate you" or "hmmph... pc could do better! [console] has [number nobody cares about], while MY pc has [another number nobody cares about that is bigger than the other number]" literally who gives a fuck, it's videogames[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] RIP

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] rest in baguettes maxofs2d anyways, Christina Sommers is a cool feminist, i like how people claim she's conservative despite having a democrat political stance.

And Max just couldn't help himself. Imagine that something like this is the post you was perma'd for. Just imagine.

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;46040742]I fail to see how Slavery [I]isn't[/I] like misogyny. The patriarchy breaks women into humiliating subservience in a way not unsimilar to how the same straight white men broke and humiliated blacks. Even games that get hailed for "strong female characters" still support the patriarchy and female slavery. They don't condemn male-female relationships for being inherently abusive to females. Alyx Vance in Half-Life 2 is only there to praise the player instead of rightfully attacking and belittling them. etc.[/QUOTE] I'm at a loss for words. That is a very.. imaginative stance on the matter for sure. So in your opinion normal, healthy male-female relationships, no matter if love, friendship, work, are inherently abusive to the female part? I am genuinely interested because I have never heard something like this And what do you mean by female slavery? Being bound to a man by love or friendship or whatever else?

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Fucking no scoped.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Can't wait for the multiple gimmick accounts that he'll certainly create just for threads like this.

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;46040742]blacks. [/QUOTE] I don't even want to touch the rest of the post with a 10-foot pole, but how does one condemn slavery and racism, and then refer to a group of [b]people[/b] as "blacks". I can't understand that.

This woman is prob. one of the best people that has made a video about this topic hands down.

craptasket once again laying down the hand of justice

Craptasket is my new hero. First he banned thisispain, then Maxofs2d? It's like a triple christmas or something.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46041359]Craptasket is my new hero. First he banned thisispain, then Maxofs2d? It's like a triple christmas or something.[/QUOTE] If he bans JtRtheRiPPeR , i can die happy.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] If your ego was so high you couldn't follow a simple warning you have no place here.

[QUOTE=lapsus_;46040984] So in your opinion normal, healthy male-female relationships, no matter if love, friendship, work, are inherently abusive to the female part?[/QUOTE] Male-Female relationships are inherently unhealthy and frankly pretty disgusting due to the patriarchy's influence on the role of women in society, therefore skewing any power balance to the male in a relationship which encourages and contributes to misogyny and general female slavery. Love in a male-female relationship is almost certainly not genuine and probably a result of indoctrination and the conditioning of females instilled by the patriarchy. Not to mention love is a silly and kinda outdated concept in today's world. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Incoherent/shitposting" - NiandraLades))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] [video=youtube;sm7ddRTdDj4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm7ddRTdDj4[/video]

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] I've been fucking waiting to post this [img]http://imgur.com/32hmO0C.png[/img]

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;46039977]Misogyny and sexism isn't necessarily "rawr i hate women >:(" [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Was Warned" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] WHO IS LAUGH NOW MAXOFS2D??