Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress: Part 2 - General

[QUOTE=thisispain;40820162]yeah but thats why we shouldnt compare reality to videogames when it comes to motivations and what characters do if my girlfriend got kidnapped by a big green lizard, taking mushrooms would not help me get her back[/QUOTE] yeah i think the shrooms were what summoned the lizard in the first place

[QUOTE=thisispain;40820218]why do you care you came into this thread well knowing what it was about, whats the point slagging everyone off and getting buttfrustrated because people find an interest in the issue[/QUOTE] He want's to express his opinion and he is god damn right. Her rant is pointless and stupid and you people are in denial

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820244]He want's to express his opinion and he is god damn right. [B]Her rant is pointless and stupid and you people are in denial[/B][/QUOTE] stop being silly with the melodrama

[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;40817781] Kane & [B]Lunch[/B]: Dead Men (2007) [/QUOTE] Is this some sort of joke? if it it's making me hungry

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820244]He want's to express his opinion and he is god damn right. Her rant is pointless and stupid and you people are in denial[/QUOTE] no we just have different interests woaAH

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820244]He want's to express his opinion and he is god damn right. Her rant is pointless and stupid and you people are in denial[/QUOTE] Oh goodness sorry a woman dared speak out against your video games. Next time why don't you put her in her place that stupid useless bitch. B)

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40820235]yeah i think the shrooms were what summoned the lizard in the first place[/QUOTE] putting on weird clothes and trying to fit into pipes sounds like very typical mushroom behavior.

Video games are a business, your demographic is where your business comes from. When the gaming demographic is severely dominated by males, the folks who have to write a story to get the player drawn in have to look at that demographic and see what makes them drawn to the game. I'm not getting a shit ton of money for this, so my effort will be less than this persons, but just as effective. Look at the top selling games for the Atari 2600. All of them are simple and easy to follow games, no real targeted demographic there and yet the market was saturated with a predominantly male crowd. Let's go ahead and shoot forward a few decades. The Nintendo Entertainment System comes out, and with it a game where you play a hairy plumber, murdering turtles to save a princess who keeps getting kidnapped by a big turtle. That makes [i]perfect[/i] sense [sp]if you trip acid[/sp] and is catering to a male audience that wants to feel like they're actually going on a crazy adventure to save the ruler of the kingdom from the biggest bad guy of them all. At the same time, you have a game where you play a person in a space suit, capable of shooting lasers and turning into a little ball. At the end of the game, you find out your character has been a female the whole time. Known fact, Metroid is one of the best selling games for Nintendo, and men play it more than women, even though the protagonist is a female. So even if there's a level field for gaming there's still a much higher percentage of men playing games than women. So, now you have a good idea on what your target demographic is going to be, and how you should go about developing your game. Shoot off from the Super nintendo and let's look at the Xbox. The top 3 selling Xbox games, are halo 1 and 2, where you play a male super soldier without a face (to make any male gamer feel like the protagonist) as you fight against insurmountable odds and blast aliens to bits and purple goo. The 3rd best selling game is Splinter Cell, where you play a modern day ninja, sneaking about the shadows to uncover a secret plot. These games are CLEARLY catering to a target demographic that is undoubtedly the largest in gaming. The problem is there aren't enough women actually playing games to have an impact on how they are presented or created. More and more women are entering the gaming workforce, but not in a way that they get to directly influence how a game is made or how the story is created. The person in charge usually gets the last say, and that person want's to make as much cash as possible. So there you go, get more of your lady friends to play more video games and just maybe, you'll see more games that take a different approach to how they are presented.

[QUOTE=entertainer89;40820189]It doesn't reinforce anything. I put it to you that your standards for a character are too high. You can't place every character on a pedestal. Some characters have to die, others need to be kidnapped. We've seen both genders suffer these fates. There have been both male and female leads. Not all characters can be strong and independent. This is true for males and females again. If you choose to look at every example of a weak female and shout " I bet men did this " !!! Then I'm afraid you should probably stop playing video games as it must be an awful experience for you. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my games. Some stories are pretty good, while others suck. I don't play the ones I don't like and that's just fine. As I've said before and will say again, if the industry offends you so, write your own games. Don't force your ideals on me. That's just plain hypocrisy. Now let's watch as you brush it off with " b.b..but muh female gender roles " etc What a ridiculous circle jerk The time and money spent fighting the " misogynist gaming industry " could have been used to make a "feminist friendly gaming dev community " So much for Being the change you want to see in the world. /rant[/QUOTE] You're a strange guy. As hard as it might seem to you, I too, enjoy videogames. Now, had you watched the video, you'd know that "one should be able to enjoy them while also being critical of them", and it's what I am doing. Just because a game happens to have a trope that reinforces sexism that doesn't mean the game is automatically terrible, it means that there's an aspect of it that should be corrected, as with all flaws in art. Whether you think it reinforces sexism or not is purely your opinion. I'm not forcing my ideas on anyone, and I don't want everyone to think like me. I am simply expressing my opinion, you getting defensive over it doesn't equal me attacking you. Maybe one day you'll grow out of your tunnel vision and understand that you aren't the center of the universe. [QUOTE=BANNED USER;40820290]large post[/QUOTE] This is pretty spot on, but the thing is that it's hard for women to get into the gaming community or the gaming industry when they are continuously alienated from it. It's a vicious circle.

[QUOTE=entertainer89;40820189]You can't place every character on a pedestal. Some characters have to die, others need to be kidnapped. We've seen both genders suffer these fates. There have been both male and female leads. Not all characters can be strong and independent. This is true for males and females again. [/QUOTE] Well, of course some characters need to be kidnapped, and of course some characters need to be strong and independent. The issue is just that >90% of the time the former are females and the latter males, and it's this massive imbalance that the video invites us to ponder.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;40820290]Video games are a business, your demographic is where your business comes from. When the gaming demographic is severely dominated by males, the folks who have to write a story to get the player drawn in have to look at that demographic and see what makes them drawn to the game. I'm not getting a shit ton of money for this, so my effort will be less than this persons, but just as effective. Look at the top selling games for the Atari 2600. All of them are simple and easy to follow games, no real targeted demographic there and yet the market was saturated with a predominantly male crowd. Let's go ahead and shoot forward a few decades. The Nintendo Entertainment System comes out, and with it a game where you play a hairy plumber, murdering turtles to save a princess who keeps getting kidnapped by a big turtle. That makes [i]perfect[/i] sense [sp]if you trip acid[/sp] and is catering to a male audience that wants to feel like they're actually going on a crazy adventure to save the ruler of the kingdom from the biggest bad guy of them all. At the same time, you have a game where you play a person in a space suit, capable of shooting lasers and turning into a little ball. At the end of the game, you find out your character has been a female the whole time. Known fact, Metroid is one of the best selling games for Nintendo, and men play it more than women, even though the protagonist is a female. So even if there's a level field for gaming there's still a much higher percentage of men playing games than women. So, now you have a good idea on what your target demographic is going to be, and how you should go about developing your game. Shoot off from the Super nintendo and let's look at the Xbox. The top 3 selling Xbox games, are halo 1 and 2, where you play a male super soldier without a face (to make any male gamer feel like the protagonist) as you fight against insurmountable odds and blast aliens to bits and purple goo. The 3rd best selling game is Splinter Cell, where you play a modern day ninja, sneaking about the shadows to uncover a secret plot. These games are CLEARLY catering to a target demographic that is undoubtedly the largest in gaming. The problem is there aren't enough women actually playing games to have an impact on how they are presented or created. More and more women are entering the gaming workforce, but not in a way that they get to directly influence how a game is made or how the story is created. The person in charge usually gets the last say, and that person want's to make as much cash as possible. So there you go, get more of your lady friends to play more video games and just maybe, you'll see more games that take a different approach to how they are presented.[/QUOTE] Hard to get lady friends to play games when they're all mostly games about men stories that they can't relate to.

[QUOTE=Winters;40820277]Oh goodness sorry a woman dared speak out against your video games. Next time why don't you put her in her place that stupid useless bitch. B)[/QUOTE] Woman? The fuck does this have to do with my opinion on her rant being stupid? Is that how you look at it? I think that it's stupid that she discusses the sexism shit in video games. Are you stupid? Why doesn't she rant about WWF(they treated women horribly in the show and it had and still has a huge fanbase) which was so fucking big in the media and how it affected people or movies that EVERYBODY watches. All these but fucking video games? I wouldn't care if it was a guy or a woman but it's just fucking stupid.

she probably doesnt care about WWF she probably has an interest in videogames im sure youre smart enough to figure this out

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820406]Why doesn't she rant about WWF(they treated women horribly in the show and it had and still has a huge fanbase) which was so fucking big in the media and how it affected people or movies that EVERYBODY watches. All these but fucking video games? I wouldn't care if it was a guy or a woman but it's just fucking stupid.[/QUOTE] because she doesn't give a shit about wrestling

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820406]Woman? The fuck does this have to do with my opinion on her rant being stupid? Is that how you look at it? I think that it's stupid that she discusses the sexism shit in video games. Are you stupid? Why doesn't she rant about WWF(they treated women horribly in the show and it had and still has a huge fanbase) which was so fucking big in the media and how it affected people or movies that EVERYBODY watches. All these but fucking video games? I wouldn't care if it was a guy or a woman but it's just fucking stupid.[/QUOTE] Because video games are huge market and media as a whole has a shitload of influence in our culture. Bigger than wrestling. And for what it's worth, just because there are people dying in Africa doesn't mean I can't rant about shit that happens in my town. But really, you're not gonna understand or care about this unless you want to.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;40820290]So there you go, get more of your lady friends to play more video games and just maybe, you'll see more games that take a different approach to how they are presented.[/QUOTE] But women already make up 46 to 52% of the gaming demographic...?

[QUOTE=Cl0cK;40820360]Hard to get lady friends to play games when they're all mostly games about men stories that they can't relate to.[/QUOTE] You seem to be focusing on larger AAA titles, but even then you have the entire Mass Effect universe to throw at your lady friends. But at the same time, plenty of ladies that I know who play mindlessly violent games. Killing Floor is a great example, my brothers girlfriend loves to watch me cut zeds in half with a katana or light them on fire with the flamethrower. I've also played Killing from with my best friend, his brothers, and their girlfriends respectively. I mean holy shit, my best friends girlfriend got a 4 pack of Dead Island so she, her dad, boyfriend, and a mutual friend could play together. Not going to lie, coolest co-op game ever I've played with someones dad. You shouldn't have to be catered to to enjoy games already on the market. But it wouldn't hurt to see more story focused games that don't require split skulls or wide open lady legs to get us intrigued.

I am happy that with every new thread on the subject, there are less Dumbs and more Winners. Either people are getting convinced or are not entering the threads at all.

Well then shes fucked. Video games are not going to provide well written roles for females because its fucking video games. She should just kill some bad guys and have fun instead of trying to over analize games that focus on giving you entertainment through killing shit

[QUOTE=Cl0cK;40820360]Hard to get lady friends to play games when they're all mostly games about men stories that they can't relate to.[/QUOTE] Is this really important? Just because someone is of the same gender as me doesn't mean that I instantly relate to him. I have played dozens of games with characters I couldn't relate to at all and I still enjoyed them.

this is related to part 1 but anyone else think that dinosaur planet game would have totally been another awesome Rare game that they just dont make anymore im legit bummed that they turned that shit into starfox

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40820454]But women already make up 46 to 52% of the gaming demographic...?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say most women play the kind of games she talks about in the video. I'd gamble that most women who play video games are the facebook/mobile type of gamer.

[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;40820545]I wouldn't say most women play the kind of games she talks about in the video. I'd gamble that most women who play video games are the facebook/mobile type of gamer.[/QUOTE] i wonder why

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820521]Well then shes fucked. Video games are not going to provide well written roles for females because its fucking video games. She should just kill some bad guys and have fun instead of trying to over analize games that focus on giving you entertainment through killing shit[/QUOTE] yeah m8 fuk actually wanting to improve things u enjoy :). You get that there are things called [b]STORY LINES[/b]. You see these ~strange things~ can be pretty important in narrative based art forms and tend to be worsened by shoddy writing and the use of tropes.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40820544]this is related to part 1 but anyone else think that dinosaur planet game would have totally been another awesome Rare game that they just dont make anymore im legit bummed that they turned that shit into starfox[/QUOTE] If you are interested Gunman chornicles has a planet with dinosaurs.

Tropes vs Women threads sure knows how to dredge out the manchildren on facepunch. Top read.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820574]If you are interested Gunman chornicles has a planet with dinosaurs.[/QUOTE] i am not interested

[QUOTE=Winters;40820570]yeah m8 fuk actually wanting to improve things u enjoy :). You get that there are things called [b]STORY LINES[/b]. You see these ~strange things~ can be pretty important in narrative based art forms and tend to be worsened by shoddy writing and the use of tropes.[/QUOTE] Yeah "mate" I am aware. But if you are expecting a good story from a game like gears of war then you are not really that smart :).

the very reaction to these videos is proof enough that they should exist

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;40820474]You seem to be focusing on larger AAA titles, but even then you have the entire Mass Effect universe to throw at your lady friends. But at the same time, plenty of ladies that I know who play mindlessly violent games. Killing Floor is a great example, my brothers girlfriend loves to watch me cut zeds in half with a katana or light them on fire with the flamethrower. I've also played Killing from with my best friend, his brothers, and their girlfriends respectively. I mean holy shit, my best friends girlfriend got a 4 pack of Dead Island so she, her dad, boyfriend, and a mutual friend could play together. Not going to lie, coolest co-op game ever I've played with someones dad. You shouldn't have to be catered to to enjoy games already on the market. But it wouldn't hurt to see more story focused games that don't require split skulls or wide open lady legs to get us intrigued.[/QUOTE] AAA games are exactly what needs to be improved though, girls are more attracted to smaller titles or mobile ones because they are gender neutral mostly.