Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress: Part 2 - General

[QUOTE=Desuh;40820532]Is this really important? Just because someone is of the same gender as me doesn't mean that I instantly relate to him. I have played dozens of games with characters I couldn't relate to at all and I still enjoyed them.[/QUOTE] If every male character in videogames had the character development of Twilight characters, I probably wouldn't be well vested into the medium. Movies and books used to be saturated with tropes pandering to the male gender and it lessened over the years.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820962]You just can't accept my opinion! And you are insulting me in my language! But it's a shame that you can't handle an arguement without insulting me you know. Good thing I didn't drop down to your level mate :)[/QUOTE] you should probably provide an acceptable opinion first

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820962]You just can't accept my opinion! And you are insulting me in my language! But it's a shame that you can't handle an arguement without insulting me you know. Good thing I didn't drop down to your level mate :)[/QUOTE] yeah so what

[QUOTE=thisispain;40820975]yeah so what[/QUOTE] It's funny to see people drop down to your level heheheh. Anyway I paid enough attention to you. Mistermooth read my previous posts.

you said you were leaving like 3 times wtf

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40820987]It's funny to see people drop down to your level heheheh. Anyway I paid enough attention to you. Mistermooth read my previous posts.[/QUOTE] Wait wait, the one where you compare the middle ages to modern society as if it has some sway or the one where you insist we should accept your anecdotal evidence? [editline]28th May 2013[/editline] Also Sub-Zero I'm still not convinced you watched it considering the only examples your brought up were Halo, Cod, And Gears of which she only talks about 1 of those games. Your opinion on her "rant" really is pointless if that is the case.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40820998]you said you were leaving like 3 times wtf[/QUOTE] You were entertaining Oh and Winters I never saw any noble woman saving the day or the king in any piece of literature from the middle ages. I wad reffering to the whole man being better and stronger than the woman thingy

[QUOTE=squids_eye;40820939]I think you have it the wrong way around. I doubt changing the stories of games to be less sexist will significantly influence many women to play games or become part of the industry. On the other hand if women do become a larger portion of the audience and a larger female presence develops in the industry then it might influence less sexist games.[/QUOTE] "Chicken or the egg"-issue

[QUOTE=Winters;40820961]Way more than a select few are over sexualized.[/QUOTE] the only ones that stick out of my head are women in GOW, laura croft, that one brazilian bitch from drake, and other M (which most metroid fans dont even consider canon), and women in DMC. meanwhile normal samus, the queen in dishonored, the blonde haired chick from drake, early cortana, and even SHODAN, and Elizabeth from BSI who is conservative most of the game. Im not counting Guinevere from dark souls because thats some weird jap fantasy thing.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40821027]You were entertaining Oh and Winters I never saw any noble woman saving the day or the king in any piece of literature from the middle ages. I wad reffering to the whole man being better and stronger than the woman thingy[/QUOTE] K you still implying that archetype should be applicable to modern educated society. You're still wrong.

[QUOTE=Winters;40821005]Wait wait, the one where you compare the middle ages to modern society as if it has some sway or the one where you insist we should accept your anecdotal evidence? [editline]28th May 2013[/editline] Also Sub-Zero I'm still not convinced you watched it considering the only examples your brought up were Halo, Cod, And Gears of which she only talks about 1 of those games. Your opinion on her "rant" really is pointless if that is the case.[/QUOTE] I was reffering to cod and halo as AAA titles and nothing. I was just trying to tell you that the action and science fiction games are mostly based on good multiplayer and gameplay mechanics and don't have a good story.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40821045]I was reffering to cod and halo as AAA titles and nothing. I was just trying to tell you that the action and science fiction games are mostly based on good multiplayer and gameplay mechanics and don't have a good story.[/QUOTE] Okay well she didn't talk about action games in the video. She talked about Narrative driven ones mostly with action/fighting as a plot device.

[QUOTE=Winters;40821041]K you still implying that archetype should be applicable to modern educated society. You're still wrong.[/QUOTE] Ok if you feel like it Yeah but the thing is that games like Gears of war, god of war and infamous mostly focus on gameplay. The story in these games is usually boring

[QUOTE=codemaster85;40821037]the only ones that stick out of my head are women in GOW, laura croft, that one brazilian bitch from drake, and other M (which most metroid fans dont even consider canon), and women in DMC. meanwhile normal samus, the queen in dishonored, the blonde haired chick from drake, early cortana, and even SHODAN, and Elizabeth from BSI who is conservative most of the game. Im not counting Guinevere from dark souls because thats some weird jap fantasy thing.[/QUOTE] Just because you cant name many doesn't mean a lot don't exist. Nonetheless the sexualization is still not the issue. A lot of the women you listed are at least portrayed as partially strong characters. The issue (as pretty obviously stated in the video) is in fact that women are portrayed as weak because of their femininity and will be killed off simply to help develop the main male character. [editline]28th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40821057]Ok if you feel like it Yeah but the thing is that games like Gears of war, god of war and infamous mostly focus on gameplay. The story in these games is usually boring[/QUOTE] Okay well she doesn't only talk about gears and god of war.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40821057]Ok if you feel like it Yeah but the thing is that games like Gears of war, god of war and infamous mostly focus on gameplay. The story in these games is usually boring[/QUOTE] Oh my god, are you thick? It doesn't matter if the focus is on the gameplay or if the story is boring. The [U][I]story is still there, it's still shit and it still portrays women poorly.[/I][/U]

[QUOTE=Winters;40821082]Just because you cant name many doesn't mean a lot don't exist. Nonetheless the sexualization is still not the issue. A lot of the women you listed are at least portrayed as partially strong characters. The issue (as pretty obviously stated in the video) is in fact that women are portrayed as weak because of their femininity and will be killed off simply to help develop the main male character. [editline]28th May 2013[/editline] Okay well she doesn't only talk about gears and god of war.[/QUOTE] Yes and I find it stupid to be ranting about these games not having strong female characters. Most of the games she mentioned don't have a well written story. Mostly gameplay

I've been waiting for this. Now, I generally agree with several of her points but I really think she should consider what and what to not give as examples. Several times during the video she'd say something and an (apparently) relevant image from a game would be in the background. What bothers me is that she seemingly passes off some situations in certain games as misogynistic without giving a proper reason. I really like when she does that, it helps me understand the how and why she came to the conclusion. However, it irks me something extreme that in some examples, she just briefly implies that some game is guilty of a certain thing. For instance, it doesn't even feel like she ever played Max Payne 3, ICO, or Hotline Miami. In Max Payne 3, while I agree Fabiana would be damseled, It's highly different from all of the other examples that she gave. a bit of spoilers now, not too heavy [sp]Max is hired to protect the Branco family. Both times the CS attack they try to take as many from the family as possible, it's only that they make it out with Fabiana in the end. Max does not save her because he likes her, (which is made very clear), he saves her because the boss told him so. He looks after Giovanna because he wanted to be nice to Raul. Not to mention that the things that happen in MP3 genuinly have and probably will keep happening in Southern America. For me it was an eye-opener.[/sp] I can't say as much about ICO, but I, again don't think that the girl fits the normal trope that Anita tries to tell us. Again, she uses ICO as a passing example while saying something loosely relevant. No explanation. In ICO, the girl is with ICO just about all the time. Her story is built upon for each second you play the game. Also, team ICO is known for their "unique" (at least at the time), gameplay mechanics. ICO was designed from the ground up to be played as it was played, as an escort mission. IMO the gender of the escorted matters fairly little, since the escorted had a solid story behind her, and it laters turns out that the player character was kind of a sidekick in terms of story. On to Hotline Miami. I don't know where to start really, it annoyed me greatly. There is barely a distressed damsel to begin with, you pick her up from that place probably because of guilt since you kill so goddamn many. It's a game about conspiracies, mind control and killing hundreds of russians. And those were my two cents on the subject. I'd be really happy if she skipped the fleeting examples in future episodes and sticked to a few solid perpetrators.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;40821140]Yes and I find it stupid to be ranting about these games not having strong female characters. Most of the games she mentioned don't have a well written story. Mostly gameplay[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40821125]It doesn't matter if the focus is on the gameplay or if the story is boring. The [U][I]story is still there, it's still shit and it still portrays women poorly.[/I][/U][/QUOTE] again, doesn't matter? the story is still there and it still is portraying women poorly. If the story is so meaningless (which completely contradicts other peoples arguments that it's the Free Market deciding this because people want it) why can't they make it treat women well?

But the writing in sports games is none existent, yet there is far fewer girls playing them. Which is very odd since a huge amount of women like sports. I really doubt they are expecting Madden or FIFA to insult them, so why do they avoid them? Or if they do play them why are they not as vocal about it as guys. Everyday there is at least 5-10 male friends talking about FIFA on Facebook. That isn't a fear of getting rape and sexist comments since it's Facebook and you generally know the person. It isn't the lack of female players since they watch the men on TV and at the stadiums. Is there a reason for this or am I off base and there's more girls playing sports games than I'm realising?

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;40821158]I've been waiting for this. Now, I generally agree with several of her points but I really think she should consider what and what to not give as examples. Several times during the video she'd say something and an (apparently) relevant image from a game would be in the background. What bothers me is that she seemingly passes off some situations in certain games as misogynistic without giving a proper reason. I really like when she does that, it helps me understand the how and why she came to the conclusion. However, it irks me something extreme that in some examples, she just briefly implies that some game is guilty of a certain thing. For instance, it doesn't even feel like she ever played Max Payne 3, ICO, or Hotline Miami. In Max Payne 3, while I agree Fabiana would be damseled, It's highly different from all of the other examples that she gave. a bit of spoilers now, not too heavy [sp]Max is hired to protect the Branco family. Both times the CS attack they try to take as many from the family as possible, it's only that they make it out with Fabiana in the end. Max does not save her because he likes her, (which is made very clear), he saves her because the boss told him so. He looks after Giovanna because he wanted to be nice to Raul. Not to mention that the things that happen in MP3 genuinly have and probably will keep happening in Southern America. For me it was an eye-opener.[/sp] I can't say as much about ICO, but I, again don't think that the girl fits the normal trope that Anita tries to tell us. Again, she uses ICO as a passing example while saying something loosely relevant. No explanation. In ICO, the girl is with ICO just about all the time. Her story is built upon for each second you play the game. Also, team ICO is known for their "unique" (at least at the time), gameplay mechanics. ICO was designed from the ground up to be played as it was played, as an escort mission. IMO the gender of the escorted matters fairly little, since the escorted had a solid story behind her, and it laters turns out that the player character was kind of a sidekick in terms of story. On to Hotline Miami. I don't know where to start really, it annoyed me greatly. There is barely a distressed damsel to begin with, you pick her up from that place probably because of guilt since you kill so goddamn many. It's a game about conspiracies, mind control and killing hundreds of russians. And those were my two cents on the subject. I'd be really happy if she skipped the fleeting examples in future episodes and sticked to a few solid perpetrators.[/QUOTE] None of that has to do with it still being a damsel in distress trope, she even says that using the trope doesn't make the games bad necessarily, did you watch the whole thing? It doesn't matter that Ico is a great game.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;40821177]But the writing in sports games is none existent, yet there is far fewer girls playing them. Which is very odd since a huge amount of women like sports. I really doubt they are expecting Madden or FIFA to insult them, so why do they avoid them? Or if they do play them why are they not as vocal about it as guys. Everyday there is at least 5-10 male friends talking about FIFA on Facebook. That isn't a fear of getting rape and sexist comments since it's Facebook and you generally know the person. It isn't the lack of female players since they watch the men on TV and at the stadiums. Is there a reason for this or am I off base and there's more girls playing sports games than I'm realising?[/QUOTE] no you are dumb because all the men are protrayed as huge musclehea- oh wait

[QUOTE=Shadaez;40821197]None of that has to do with it still being a damsel in distress trope, she even says that using the trope doesn't make the games bad necessarily, did you watch the whole thing? It doesn't matter that Ico is a great game.[/QUOTE] To be fair, she has stated before that ico is a "terribly sexist game", which to me doesn't imply "good". And I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't think ICO portrays women poorly, at all.

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;40821158]I've been waiting for this. Now, I generally agree with several of her points but I really think she should consider what and what to not give as examples. Several times during the video she'd say something and an (apparently) relevant image from a game would be in the background. What bothers me is that she seemingly passes off some situations in certain games as misogynistic without giving a proper reason. I really like when she does that, it helps me understand the how and why she came to the conclusion. However, it irks me something extreme that in some examples, she just briefly implies that some game is guilty of a certain thing. For instance, it doesn't even feel like she ever played Max Payne 3, ICO, or Hotline Miami. In Max Payne 3, while I agree Fabiana would be damseled, It's highly different from all of the other examples that she gave. a bit of spoilers now, not too heavy [sp]Max is hired to protect the Branco family. Both times the CS attack they try to take as many from the family as possible, it's only that they make it out with Fabiana in the end. Max does not save her because he likes her, (which is made very clear), he saves her because the boss told him so. He looks after Giovanna because he wanted to be nice to Raul. Not to mention that the things that happen in MP3 genuinly have and probably will keep happening in Southern America. For me it was an eye-opener.[/sp] I can't say as much about ICO, but I, again don't think that the girl fits the normal trope that Anita tries to tell us. Again, she uses ICO as a passing example while saying something loosely relevant. No explanation. In ICO, the girl is with ICO just about all the time. Her story is built upon for each second you play the game. Also, team ICO is known for their "unique" (at least at the time), gameplay mechanics. ICO was designed from the ground up to be played as it was played, as an escort mission. IMO the gender of the escorted matters fairly little, since the escorted had a solid story behind her, and it laters turns out that the player character was kind of a sidekick in terms of story. [B]On to Hotline Miami. I don't know where to start really, it annoyed me greatly. There is barely a distressed damsel to begin with, you pick her up from that place probably because of guilt since you kill so goddamn many. It's a game about conspiracies, mind control and killing hundreds of russians.[/B] And those were my two cents on the subject. I'd be really happy if she skipped the fleeting examples in future episodes and sticked to a few solid perpetrators.[/QUOTE] there wasnt even a real like motivation with the girl, your guy was just doing his job and felt pity on her being drugged and beaten. sure she gets killed by some dude, but youre more pissed off that the guy almost killed you.

Both of these episodes have actually been pretty good, she's putting the money of her original pledge to good use. It's just I wish at some point she acknowledged how early into its development the medium is. It's ironic that she used old-timey footage of a damsel in distress because games are just barely getting out of a stage that's a lot like that stage for cinema.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;40821252]Both of these episodes have actually been pretty good, she's putting the money of her original pledge to good use. It's just I wish at some point she acknowledged how early into its development the medium is. It's ironic that she used old-timey footage of a damsel in distress because games are just barely getting out of a stage that's a lot like that stage for cinema.[/QUOTE] Movies are still quite sexist and has at least 10x larger cultural impact on society, tbh I don't know why no-one adresses that.

Not a horrible video, definitely an improvement from the first on-holy shit people played Inversion? Kidding. While I disagree with some of her views/reasoning, I can appreciate that she at least has an opinion and can apparently elaborate on at least some of it.

[QUOTE=benwaddi;40821177]But the writing in sports games is none existent, yet there is far fewer girls playing them. Which is very odd since a huge amount of women like sports. I really doubt they are expecting Madden or FIFA to insult them, so why do they avoid them? Or if they do play them why are they not as vocal about it as guys. Everyday there is at least 5-10 male friends talking about FIFA on Facebook. That isn't a fear of getting rape and sexist comments since it's Facebook and you generally know the person. It isn't the lack of female players since they watch the men on TV and at the stadiums. Is there a reason for this or am I off base and there's more girls playing sports games than I'm realising?[/QUOTE] I'd like to see some numbers saying girls aren't big sports gamers. I could on the same notion as you say "I hardly know any gamers at all who play many sports based games.

Honestly the worst thing about this whole shenanigan is the commenters on both sides [editline]lel[/editline] Tangentially relevant: [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40378683/Funny%20pics/Sexual%20Dimorphism.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=codemaster85;40821249]there wasnt even a real like motivation with the girl, your guy was just doing his job and felt pity on her being drugged and beaten. sure she gets killed by some dude, but youre more [B]pissed off that the guy almost killed you[/B].[/QUOTE] I disagree, but that part is mostly open to interpretation. Hotline is so hard to do because it was so open to interpretation. I thought that the progression of their relationship that you can see led to Jacket's reaction being because of her death.

the fuck is wrong with that guys eyes?