[QUOTE=Hidole555;44769933]This guy goes pretty in-depth on Thief. He might come off as a bit nitpicky to some but he makes good points.
[video=youtube;s510WoJUYwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s510WoJUYwA[/video][/QUOTE]
I don't think he's being nitpicky at all, just look at the old Thief games and this one then look at Hitman: Blood Money and Absolution. It's pretty fucking sad that with all the new tech and gaming advances games like this end up worse than the originals as far as aesthetics, combat and level design.
In Thief at the wheel turn sections, I had to find my 360 controller and plug it in and use that to turn them since this game uses mouse outputs so badly and doesn't pick up my mouse.
I had to do the same thing with AC3's lockpicking.
"MAYBE I'LL GET LUCKY TONIGHT AFTER MY SHIFT"
[QUOTE=Doritos-pope;44771381]"MAYBE I'LL GET LUCKY TONIGHT AFTER MY SHIFT"[/QUOTE]
sloop
[QUOTE=Rossy167;44770962]I don't think he's being nitpicky at all, just look at the old Thief games and this one then look at Hitman: Blood Money and Absolution. It's pretty fucking sad that with all the new tech and gaming advances games like this end up worse than the originals as far as aesthetics, combat and level design.[/QUOTE]
At least IO Interactive actually confirmed the feedback they got from Absolution and said they are going back to the sandbox levels again like in Bloodmoney, though we still have no information regarding it but they did openly said they are going to try going back to the Bloodmoney'ish type of game and they could not do that with Absolution because it was already in a late stage of development.
Edit:
[url]http://hitman.com/open-letter-to-hitman-fans/?age-verified=f0bf30c3c6[/url]
I feel like judged on its own, Absolution was a pretty decent game, it did a lot of things right. It just wasn't a Hitman game. Hitman was more of a puzzle game, where the puzzle was finding the most efficient way to assassinate the target. Absolution was more of a linear stealth game, which large segments of the game just being pure stealth. It wasn't the same.
[editline]10th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hidole555;44769933]This guy goes pretty in-depth on Thief. He might come off as a bit nitpicky to some but he makes good points.
[video=youtube;s510WoJUYwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s510WoJUYwA[/video][/QUOTE]
I'm sure this is a good video but it's nearly an hour long, so I skipped around to random parts to get a feel for his commentary. I randomly happened upon him doing the one stairwell puzzle in the brothel level which was admittedly not a great puzzle, and I swear for about 15 seconds the commentary devolved into valley girl speak and I burst out laughing.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;44771521]
[url]http://hitman.com/open-letter-to-hitman-fans/?age-verified=f0bf30c3c6[/url][/QUOTE]
Haven't seen this before. AWESOME!
I really genuinely have respect for the people behind this.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44768983]I would like to see most of the people who actually enjoy the puzzle solving and cognitive function required for the new Thief play games like Myst or Riven. They wouldn't last 10 seconds.
Seriously, there's a piece of information you need in Riven which is required to access these mysterious spinning domes located around the game world. The information in question is a string of five symbols, which are generated at random at the start of the game, and they are written down in a notebook chock full of information that may or may not be relevant. Each symbol represents a number, and you can figure out what the first 10 symbols of this hieroglyhphic number system are supposed to be with a little thing you can interact with at a pretty early stage of the game. From there you have to figure out how to get past the number 10, and do it right, since the five symbol code almost always has symbols that represent numbers higher than 10.
Fuck, we need more games that do stuff like this.[/QUOTE]
wow I still recall that the D'ni number system is actually base 20 (or you could argue it's base 5 I suppose, but a new symbol is required for 21 so I choose to call it base 20)
As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I know that the new Thief game was designed for mass appeal. It had to be, AAA game development is too expensive for it not to. That means catering to as many people as possible, and so we get "'Thief' for Preteens".
It would have been nice if the puzzles had a difficulty option (with suitable incentives beyond the challenge I guess, gamification etc) but the fact is far fewer people appreciate difficult puzzles rather than those that just get frustrated.
[QUOTE=Hidole555;44769933]This guy goes pretty in-depth on Thief. He might come off as a bit nitpicky to some but he makes good points.
[video=youtube;s510WoJUYwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s510WoJUYwA[/video][/QUOTE]
It would be better if half the video wasn't "It's just fukken shi'", I watched 12 minutes of it where he makes some valid, if slightly anal, points but 6 minutes of that is just him repeating "It's just shit" over and over.
[QUOTE=subenji99;44775669]wow I still recall that the D'ni number system is actually base 20 (or you could argue it's base 5 I suppose, but a new symbol is required for 21 so I choose to call it base 20)
As much as I want to agree with this sentiment, I know that the new Thief game was designed for mass appeal. It had to be, AAA game development is too expensive for it not to. That means catering to as many people as possible, and so we get "'Thief' for Preteens".
It would have been nice if the puzzles had a difficulty option (with suitable incentives beyond the challenge I guess, gamification etc) but the fact is far fewer people appreciate difficult puzzles rather than those that just get frustrated.[/QUOTE]
Well, games like this don't even have to go up to the same level of Riven or Myst in terms of puzzle "difficulty". I say difficulty like that because [I]all[/I] of the puzzles in both Riven and Myst have clues to their solution hidden in absolute plain sight, it's just a matter of connecting the dots.
In the OP's video, if the combination for the safe were revealed by solving riddles scribbled down in notes, or even if each number was something more than just an arbitrary number at the start of a journal entry (seriously what the hell was the point of that?) then I think it would have been a lot better.
Dishonored did a pretty decent job at creating a sense of difficulty with its puzzles. I recall one particular side objective where you could unlock a safe, but to unlock it you had to find the combination, and each number in the combination could be found in a series of paintings. So basically you had to walk allover the place finding these paintings, and there were other paintings in the area as well that were totally irrelevant to the combination, look at each painting, and try to find a number somewhere in each of them.
For the most part it was pretty easy, it didn't really require a lot of thinking to figure out, but it was a hell of lot better than the garbage in the OP's video.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44776096]Well, games like this don't even have to go up to the same level of Riven or Myst in terms of puzzle "difficulty". I say difficulty like that because [I]all[/I] of the puzzles in both Riven and Myst have clues to their solution hidden in absolute plain sight, it's just a matter of connecting the dots.
In the OP's video, if the combination for the safe were revealed by solving riddles scribbled down in notes, or even if each number was something more than just an arbitrary number at the start of a journal entry (seriously what the hell was the point of that?) then I think it would have been a lot better.
Dishonored did a pretty decent job at creating a sense of difficulty with its puzzles. I recall one particular side objective where you could unlock a safe, but to unlock it you had to find the combination, and each number in the combination could be found in a series of paintings. So basically you had to walk allover the place finding these paintings, and there were other paintings in the area as well that were totally irrelevant to the combination, look at each painting, and try to find a number somewhere in each of them.
For the most part it was pretty easy, it didn't really require a lot of thinking to figure out, but it was a hell of lot better than the garbage in the OP's video.[/QUOTE]
Unpopular opinion time but I felt that Dishonored was the single easiest and least satisfying stealth game I've ever played (even on the hardest difficulty,) and I feel that Thief 4 did a better job at being fun than Dishonored and I couldn't even finish Thief 4 because it was so bad.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44776473]Unpopular opinion time but I felt that Dishonored was the single easiest and least satisfying stealth game I've ever played (even on the hardest difficulty,) and I feel that Thief 4 did a better job at being fun than Dishonored and I couldn't even finish Thief 4 because it was so bad.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Dishonored was a very easy game, and it wasn't exactly necessary to be stealthy to beat it. That's part of the reason why I enjoyed it, you could do one or the other. I was just specifically referring to an instance of a mildly interesting puzzle that required more than "go find these documents and the solution is the first thing you see in each of them".
My friend built a gaming PC several months ago and she was given the choice of 3 free games with her AMD purchase. I feel bad for convincing her to get thief
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44776597]Yeah, you're absolutely right. Dishonored was a very easy game, and it wasn't exactly necessary to be stealthy to beat it. That's part of the reason why I enjoyed it, you could do one or the other. I was just specifically referring to an instance of a mildly interesting puzzle that required more than "go find these documents and the solution is the first thing you see in each of them".[/QUOTE]
I loved Dishonored and its weird world and its great art style, and it had great gameplay, but I felt like it made some very odd choices.
Like making it so that killing people gave you the bad ending. If you didn't want me to kill people, why would you make all the coolest shit lethal?
Honestly, I hate systems that punish you plotwise for killing people. If you wanna punish me fine, but don't give me the shitty ending. It's just unsatisfying.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44768983]I would like to see most of the people who actually enjoy the puzzle solving and cognitive function required for the new Thief play games like Myst or Riven. They wouldn't last 10 seconds.
Seriously, there's a piece of information you need in Riven which is required to access these mysterious spinning domes located around the game world. The information in question is a string of five symbols, which are generated at random at the start of the game, and they are written down in a notebook chock full of information that may or may not be relevant. Each symbol represents a number, and you can figure out what the first 10 symbols of this hieroglyhphic number system are supposed to be with a little thing you can interact with at a pretty early stage of the game. From there you have to figure out how to get past the number 10, and do it right, since the five symbol code almost always has symbols that represent numbers higher than 10.
Fuck, we need more games that do stuff like this.[/QUOTE]
Myst.... Not Myst. My brain still hurts and it's been a decade since I played Revelation. If they re-did Revelation, with no changes except making it 1080 and adding Oculus Rift support... that would be gorgeous
[QUOTE=darth-veger;44771521]At least IO Interactive actually confirmed the feedback they got from Absolution and said they are going back to the sandbox levels again like in Bloodmoney, though we still have no information regarding it but they did openly said they are going to try going back to the Bloodmoney'ish type of game and they could not do that with Absolution because it was already in a late stage of development.
Edit:
[url]http://hitman.com/open-letter-to-hitman-fans/?age-verified=f0bf30c3c6[/url][/QUOTE]
I wish more dev companies would do shit like this. Just reading this already has me more hyped up for the next Hitman game than any trailer or demo for absolution did
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;44778194]I loved Dishonored and its weird world and its great art style, and it had great gameplay, but I felt like it made some very odd choices.
Like making it so that killing people gave you the bad ending. If you didn't want me to kill people, why would you make all the coolest shit lethal?
Honestly, I hate systems that punish you plotwise for killing people. If you wanna punish me fine, but don't give me the shitty ending. It's just unsatisfying.[/QUOTE]
It had a wonderful artstyle and exceptional lore, but the gameplay was boring to me and the plot was unexceptional. Maybe part of the reason why I hated that game so much was that I had such high expectations only to be let down so strongly where I had virtually no expectations for Thief.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;44778194]I loved Dishonored and its weird world and its great art style, and it had great gameplay, but I felt like it made some very odd choices.
Like making it so that killing people gave you the bad ending. If you didn't want me to kill people, why would you make all the coolest shit lethal?
Honestly, I hate systems that punish you plotwise for killing people. If you wanna punish me fine, but don't give me the shitty ending. It's just unsatisfying.[/QUOTE]
But the bad ending was the best one plot-wise. It didn't feel like a punishment at all to me.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;44780326]But the bad ending was the best one plot-wise. It didn't feel like a punishment at all to me.[/QUOTE]This so much. Bad ending was great. Though I do agree that all the fun stuff are lethal.
I still can't get over how awful the good ending to Dishonored is.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;44778194]I loved Dishonored and its weird world and its great art style, and it had great gameplay, but I felt like it made some very odd choices.
Like making it so that killing people gave you the bad ending. If you didn't want me to kill people, why would you make all the coolest shit lethal?
Honestly, I hate systems that punish you plotwise for killing people. If you wanna punish me fine, but don't give me the shitty ending. It's just unsatisfying.[/QUOTE]
In my experience, trying to have a game have options for both lethal and non-lethal usually end up making you feel like a scrub for going lethal, and feel like you're missing out on the toys for going non-lethal.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44783943]In my experience, trying to have a game have options for both lethal and non-lethal usually end up making you feel like a scrub for going lethal, and feel like you're missing out on the toys for going non-lethal.[/QUOTE]
When I go non-lethal (for example in Deus EX: HR) it's because it's a completely different play-style, not because I suddenly regret killing virtual enemies.
I avoided lethal attacks in Dishonored because I didn't want to have to face more rats and weepers and I wanted to destroy peoples' lives rather than end them
then again, more rats and weepers would have made the game a different experience. Looks like I'm murdering everyone next time
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
