[QUOTE=TheShatteredIce;15905963]Well America helped divide Germany's resources and fields. Without America aid Britain would have fallen. After Britain the Germans could have focused more forces into Russia. America helped unbalance things. Now I myself being Russian am hurt to take away our pride but the matter of fact is that without America's aid, to everyone, including Russia, it would have been a helluva lot more difficult to get shit done.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean?
Hitler's immediate hopes of invading Britain were shot by the Battle Of Britain.
World War II lasted until 1990 when it really ended, in the end Germany is the big loser and Western Europe is the big winner.
Don't forget America was also the main opposing force against the Japanese in the Pacific War.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties[/url]
look at the difference between the USSR and US.
[QUOTE=QwertySecond;15905830]So, for those of you who are intelligent enough not to put TL;DR, my question is:
Why does America claim it saved us during WWII? When it was mostly the Rusians, who were, in fact, communist.[/QUOTE]
Loving the random communism non sequitur there.
[QUOTE=Derp_Alt;15905972]America basically turned the whole thing around and enabled the Russians to conquer us in the first place. There wasn't really one winner, there we're multiple winners. Hell, even we won because we got rid of that furious mad man. Only the frenchies lost as usual: They got conquered by Germany and lost all their dignity left by crying to mommeh for help.[/QUOTE]
Er, yeah, this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_resistance[/url]
Although Operation Valkyrie was a damn good shot.
[QUOTE=Dan The Man;15905969]Russia took the brunt of almost all of the German army because the Germans couldn't gain air superiority over England. The Americans helped DDay but the German's defeat was inevitable with the fall of Kursk.
Also, it is commonly said (though not with certainty) that the German attack on Russia was preemptive because Stalin was likely planning an invasion. He trusted Hitler too much and as a result when they were attacked he was unprepared.[/QUOTE]
Correct, it was pre-emptive. Hitler and Stalin reached a quiet truce before war was declared that they wouldn't attack each other. Hitler wasn't as good as his word though.
About resource division:
Hitler attempted to attack on two fronts. After invading France his Blitz on Britain didn't work as effectively as he'd hoped. The Battle of Britain effectively prevented any troop landing, as well as his army being over-stretched. America didn't enter until after the Blitz was over.
My point really is that the term "World War" sums it up. No one nation was more prominent than another in aiding, which is why I get pissed off when I hear "We saved your ass in World War Two". It belittles everything done by everyone else.
Anyway, continue with the input. It's interesting.
[QUOTE=QwertySecond;15905830]Found a quote floating around in another thread, and I'd like to hear some peoples opinions on it.
If you ever studied World War Two in your history classes, you might have heard about the Battle of Stalingrad. In this battle, the Germans and thier Axis allies attempted to conquer Russia (or at least a bit of it).
Joseph Stalin, however, was not happy, particulary when they took the city named after him. Since he was feared more than death, the Rusians threw themselves at the Germans, and kicked the living shit out of them. By the end of the "battle" 841,000 Axis soldiers were dead. (The Russians lost just over a million, so it was something of a Phyrric victory.) Hitler's Sixth Army was wiped out.
So by the time of the D-Day landings, the Germans just didn't have enough soldiers left to properly man the beaches. Another problem was (for the Germans at least) was that Hitler was going a bit batshit. It's reckoned that his spies did find out that the Allies were landing, but he never believed them and strung out his army across the entire coast. He then failed to mobilise his Panzer division.
There's shedloads more here:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Path_to_defeat[/url]
So, for those of you who are intelligent enough not to put TL;DR, my question is:
Why does America claim it saved us during WWII? When it was mostly the Rusians, who were, in fact, communist.
PS. This is not nation-hate; this is a physcological, sociological and historical question, meant to quel my curiosity.[/QUOTE]
He didn't fail to mobilize his Panzers. The 2nd SS was on its way to the beaches in full force, but Allied air superiority took a heavy toll on its men and tanks, to the point where by the time they got to the beaches, their usefulness was nil. The 12th SS was also present near Caen, and they stalled the Brits and Canadians severely... but again, the air superiority combined with naval gunfire decimated their equipment and numbers to the point where they had to fall back, or be destroyed, not to mention the fact that their commander was struck down by British naval gunfire.
There were multiple winners, there was not one country that went Rambo and just did everything on there own.. if there was a country like that I dont think we would be sitting here discussing it...
Germany did this ^
Germany won duh
sure as shit wasnt Japan
[quote=aross91;15906662]sure as shit wasnt japan[/quote]
zing!
Certainly not Japan.
oh fuck, two comments above me. oh well still they got fucked up the most lol
the japs lost cuz we nuked em, the krauts lost cuz we whooped their butts. and the brifag's helped out a bit, same with the ruskies.
[QUOTE=WW1_Veteran;15906828]the japs lost cuz we nuked em, the krauts lost cuz we whooped their butts. and the brifag's helped out a bit, same with the ruskies.[/QUOTE]
you kinda make me sick... all know that britain and russia fought teeth and claws to hold the gerries at the border. as the war progressed they pushed them backwards and when stuff started looking winnable "MR. AMERICA - THE SUPERNATION" finally decided that the odds were so great that they could swoop in with minimal effort and take the credit.
all the while my home country, Denmark, opened the borders for germany and screamed "NOT THE FACE" like a tweenage girl with no guts at all.
put less dark the victory was won by contributions from all Allied forces, hadn't britain held their ground and hadn't USA been ready to reinforce when needed there would have been an age of depression far worse than there were. thankyou america, thankyou britain, thankyou russia, thankyou all allied forces and FUCK U denmark for being a sissy once again don't we have any vikings left? /Pointles rant
[QUOTE=Cheezy;15906089]If you look at the losses you might reconsider who actually lost the war..
[Img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png/210px-WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png[/Img][/QUOTE]
No shit, obviously the Allies had more deaths than Axis because almost all of the war was fought in France, an allied country, only in 1944 did the Allies step into Germany while Italy was almost untouched, same for Japan.
Either way, no individual country won the war, it was a group effort, Allies won, Axis lost, teamwork motherfuckers.
[QUOTE=Rhodes;15905997]lol. Finland wasn't fighting against Allies.
We was fighting only against Russia. And we won them.[/QUOTE]
UK and France declared war upon Finland and Romania. Those assholes didn't help us in the Winter War when the Soviets invaded us, but when we invaded them as a revenge, they declared war upon us! I respect the USA for not doing the same, they kept good relations with Finland but heavily pressured us not to attack Leningrad.
The ones who didn't fight.
There are waaay too many factors that need to be considered when trying to conclude as to who won World War Two. First off, its called [b]World[/b] War Two, which means that it was more than just a couple of countries, which then means that it sure as fuck wasn't one country that won World War Two.
A few factors that helped in the victory of World War Two: [b]Countries[/b], [b]Technology[/b], [b]Medicine[/b]. Like I said before, there are a lot more, but these are common, and easy to describe, and use as an example.
Japan probably helped the Allies more than the Nazi's, as although they did fuck shit up at Pearl Harbour, it got America directly into the war (although they were involved before, mainly by funding Britain millions of :10bux:), and they blew up Hiroshima and Nagasaki... although lets not get into that, lets just say that it helped stop the war.
Technology was obviously going to help, as there was the massive arms race to get the best guns, bombs, planes, boats, tanks etc. Who ever could create the most effective items could quite possibly win the war. (I remember another thread somewhere saying that Hitler had spy planes that werent used for some reason, and it was claimed that they could have won the war.) And to tie this up with the above paragraph, America had the technology to create some of the first used WMD's, and threw them at Japan, which helped stop the war. However, these Atomic Bombs had not been tested thoroughly, and the radiation and the fallout was not to be expected...
And finally, medicine had a MASSIVE breakthrough at the time, which would inebitably help soldiers on the front. The medicine inperticular I am talking about is Penicillin. First discovered by Alexander Fleming, by accident. He seen mould producing what we now call Penicillin, was killing other moulds, he successfully treated a man who was dieing of blood poisoning, but he couldn't cultivate penicillin effectively, so the man died when they ran out. It was to be Florey and Chain who re discovered Penicillin, tried to get it mass produced in Britain, but the government just couldn't becuase they were too tied up in the war and had no money. They then went to America (at this time Pearl Harbour still looked pretty) and they got many chemical companies to mass produce it. So when America properly joined the war and fought the Nazi's back to germany, penicillin was properly tested and used, and proved HIGHLY effective, saving many lives.
[b]It was the Allies that won WWII, not one country[/b] (imo)
/essay
[QUOTE=OutOfPop;15906019]Canada.
Canada did everything. Everyone else just sat there, like what the fuck...[/QUOTE]
qft
[editline]07:13PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cheezy;15906089]If you look at the losses you might reconsider who actually lost the war..
[Img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png/210px-WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png[/Img][/QUOTE]
Also, we took care not to harm civs (except that whore Japan thing), The axis didn't care who they killed
[QUOTE=PrismatexV3;15906101]What do you mean?
Hitler's immediate hopes of invading Britain were shot by the Battle Of Britain.[/QUOTE]
True, however added to the Brit's were a small number of American pilots, a small income of resources, small yet still very much needed.
Anyways if you want a full explanation just pm me, my attention span is stressed enough just by maintaining my thread :v:
[QUOTE=Rhodes;15905997]lol. Finland wasn't fighting against Allies.
We was fighting only against Russia. And we won them.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure we didn't win the winter war.
In the peace treaty we lost 9% of our pre-war territory and 20% of our industrial capacity. Including Valborg :( .
[QUOTE=psot;15907331]qft
[editline]07:13PM[/editline]
Also, we took care not to harm civs (except that whore Japan thing), The axis didn't care who they killed[/QUOTE]
We were no better a lot of the time.
We did.
[QUOTE=TheShatteredIce;15907380]True, however added to the Brit's were a small number of American pilots, a small income of resources, small yet still very much needed.
Anyways if you want a full explanation just pm me, my attention span is stressed enough just by maintaining my thread :v:[/QUOTE]
Most of it came from eastern europe and the colonies, though.
American's did have quite an effect since they supported the creation of penicillin which saved many Allies lives. Not only kill count matters.
[QUOTE=pvt.meh;15907456]American's did have quite an effect since they supported the creation of penicillin which saved many Allies lives. Not only kill count matters.[/QUOTE]
Quoting to support my essay.
ITT: covert nationalism.
Allies won, you can not say one country did more or less, because you can't equate the value of each countries' contributions, given the fact that war is never a sure thing.
[QUOTE=Dan The Man;15906037]You're misinformed. Although the Fins did incredibly well against the Russians considering overwhelming odds, they drew up a peace agreement relinquishing control of a large section of Finland. You would have lost the war with Russia but peace was instated before that could happen as Russia had to deal with a much more adept enemy (Germany)[/QUOTE]
Russkies suggested for peace and it was OK to Mannerheim (the greatest war hero ever) because he didn't want to lose anymore men of our small population.
And we wasn't going to lose the war. If we would keep fighting that way as it was going on, Finland would be the biggest country in the world.
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