[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;15912327]America's mass production of tanks ammunition and weapons caused the allies to win since the side with the most and best resources would ultimately win the war due to the losses involved in the war itself.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;15913893]America is most credited to saving the Allied powers due to the fact that once it DID enter the war, we pinched the Germans back and in return the Russians pushed from the other direction. Ultimately it was a cooperative effort, but if America never intervened then the world you know now wouldn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Without the intervention of any one country the world we know wouldn't exist. Of course, the US played a large part in the liberation of Europe, but why do some people speak as if this is the only effort that mattered in the entire war? There were five Normandy landing beaches, 2 taken by the British, 2 by the US and 1 by Canada. If any of these countries didn't intervene D-Day wouldn't have worked.
None of these countries had immediate reason to invade, in terms of defending their own country. Apart from Pearl Harbour, the war hadn't reached the American continent; Britain and the commonwealth had won the war in Africa and the Battle of Britain.
The conflict in the East between Russia and Germany completely overshadows the Western front in terms of numbers involved. Russia was doing a fine job of pushing into Germany anyway.
Arguably Russia was the most decisive allied power in the war, but without the involvement of any one country, things would have been very different.
Ah, come on. Russia was the real ass-kicker and name-taker of World War II. America, when it gets involved in any war, claims afterward that nobody else was involved and it was the deciding victor of the war. I mean, please. The British and Canadians (I'd say french, but they gave up sort of easily) were doing most of the fighting until Japan struck at the USA, who then joined the war. They collaborated with the British and Canadian troops, stormed a couple beaches, and suddenly they're what won the war?
Here.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdJRDpLHbw[/media]
That's the *real* American mentality.
You SINK ve lost but it vas just an illusion designed to trick ze greatest world powers into a zense of false security and pride, while ve wait for the right moment, and zen...
BAM. Ve strike swiftly. Why will ve win? Because Ze Soviet Union never really did disband. Ze 1939 non-agression pact between Russia and my country vas never broken, either. In-fact, ze entire war between Germany and Russia was an illusion-- so was Germany's invasion of France.
French spies have totally infiltrated ze American infrastructure disguised as various federal agents. You may have noticed some of ze politicians acting strangely in ze last few years-- and ze election of your new president, who is of African descent, yes?
When ze time is right, our French spies vill totally disable all of America's defenses while your precious new president vill detonate bombs in the pentagon and capital hill, and then ze Soviet Union invades America with ze help of Germany.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/5b096a655916ac7ec2ba6f3b37896f46.PNG[/img]
Ze greatest plan ever. Orchestrated by ze best minds of Germany.
Multiple countries won WW2, America just loves feeling superior.
What countries were not in wwII?
[QUOTE=GMan-2;15918773]Multiple countries won WW2, America just loves feeling superior.[/QUOTE]
They can't know because they aren't superior. None is.
[QUOTE=QwertySecond;15905830]Found a quote floating around in another thread, and I'd like to hear some peoples opinions on it.
If you ever studied World War Two in your history classes, you might have heard about the Battle of Stalingrad. In this battle, the Germans and thier Axis allies attempted to conquer Russia (or at least a bit of it).
Joseph Stalin, however, was not happy, particulary when they took the city named after him. Since he was feared more than death, the Rusians threw themselves at the Germans, and kicked the living shit out of them. By the end of the "battle" 841,000 Axis soldiers were dead. (The Russians lost just over a million, so it was something of a Phyrric victory.) Hitler's Sixth Army was wiped out.
So by the time of the D-Day landings, the Germans just didn't have enough soldiers left to properly man the beaches. Another problem was (for the Germans at least) was that Hitler was going a bit batshit. It's reckoned that his spies did find out that the Allies were landing, but he never believed them and strung out his army across the entire coast. He then failed to mobilise his Panzer division.
There's shedloads more here:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Path_to_defeat[/url]
So, for those of you who are intelligent enough not to put TL;DR, my question is:
Why does America claim it saved us during WWII? When it was mostly the Rusians, who were, in fact, communist.
PS. This is not nation-hate; this is a physcological, sociological and historical question, meant to quel my curiosity.[/QUOTE]
The reason why they "failed" to mobilise his "panzer division" is because the 12th Hitler jugend waffen SS panzer division didn't want to wake up hitler to ask for permission to deploy.
And to join the discussion on how won:
Allies would have won without the help of the US. But it would've take much longer and there would be many more dead and useless fighting. Kinda like ww1.
I think the war could have been won by just the Russians. There was no hope in hell of the Germans ever beating Russia. The Germans did well at the beginning but their manpower just could not keep up with the Russians and as a result they were pushed back and back and back. Also, to the person saying that the Germans had to wait until Winter to attack Russia is completely incorrect. The invasion started in May because of favourable conditions. Hitler and his generals analysed Napolean's invasion of Russia so they would not repeat the mistake of being freezing and losing a lot of their men. When the Germans were not as successful as they had hoped with their Blitzkrieg their advancement slowed. Their supply lines became less efficient over the large distances and their armoured forces were much less useful in Russian terrain.
When Germany got to Leningrad and Stalingrad it was when things really changed. At the same time the Germans were starting to lose ground in Northern Africa to the British and the Germans had given up on invading Britain though they were still carrying out bombing raids. The siege of Leningrad is often not talked about but the Russians held out for weeks and weeks with no supply, it was incredible. It was one of the most intense battles as Leningrad was one of three strategic locations. When Stalingrad was lost the Germans got pushed back and ended up retreating. The battle of the Kursk was the last German --> Soviet offensive and they lost this though the Germans still did surprisingly well. Their loss was due to advancing Soviet tactics and technologies such as the widespread use of the T34 tank.
Once the Russian offensive had started German defeat was inevitable, the allied invasion of France did speed things up a lot as a multifront war is more stressful but it was not the deciding factor.
There we go, essay over. I DO understand that America were a large power but they simply weren't as important in the war as Russia, if you don't believe that you're delusional and need to read a history book.
[QUOTE=Strider_07;15914475]Depends on the theatre. West Europe? The Allies as a whole. Pacific? The United States (obviously). East Europe? Kind of depends, the Soviet Union lost most of it's men, but the Germans lost the war. In Africa, I can't really say anyone lost or won, truly. The British lost quite a bit, the Germans lost quite a bit, and the Italians lost quite a bit. I suppose by virtue of the fact that the Allies accomplished the objective of protecting European interests in Africa, the British won there.
If you want to get technical, Each country was important in D-Day. The American airborne took out a huge portion of Nazi infrastructure in around Normandy, and units like E Co., 405th PIR, 101st Airborne took strategic objectives like Ste. Marie du Hoc and later on pushed the Germans out of the Ardennes. The English provided the RAF and a huge portion of the D-Day landing force, as well as holding Rommel back in Africa. Were it not for Patton and the Airborne, Europe may have fallen to the Nazis. Were it not for Montgomery and the forces in Italy, the Italians might have gotten their shit together and strengthened the Nazis. The other saving grace was Hitler himself. Had Hitler let, for example, Rommell run the Afrikakorps, we would have lost. It's hard to pinpoint who's responsible for the Allied Victory.[/QUOTE]
Don't just brush off Russia D:<
I mean, they did hold the Eastern front, take the lost bits back, and start the drive from the east into Berlin virtually on their own. (Note I said from the EAST.) Not to undermine the other countries, but they really did do a hell of a job.
Plus that's where most of the German casualties were.
America didn't join in until Japan attacked them...
Even though Hitler was making what could easily be called 'Weapons of Mass Destruction', America didn't join the war until later? Why? BECAUSE GERMANY HAD NO OIL :smug:
Norway won ?
[QUOTE=I Memo;15920137]America didn't join in until Japan attacked them...
Even though Hitler was making what could easily be called 'Weapons of Mass Destruction', America didn't join the war until later? Why? BECAUSE GERMANY HAD NO OIL :smug:[/QUOTE]
Jesus. It all makes sense now.
[QUOTE=zageeth;15920581]Norway won ?[/QUOTE]
lol Norway was captured by the Axis in 1940 I'm pretty sure.
[QUOTE=Cheezy;15906089]If you look at the losses you might reconsider who actually lost the war..
[Img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png/210px-WorldWarII-DeathsByAlliance-Piechart.png[/Img][/QUOTE]
Just because one side has more kills doesn't mean they won, it's not a stupid fucking video game. Plus the allied civilian kills are the 6 million Jews anyways.
Japan won for us. If they didn't attack pearl harbour America wouldn't have stepped in when and as much as they did and we would have lost without them. So let's all thank the Japanese for helping awaken the beast.
[QUOTE=Hallucinate;15921816]Japan won for us. If they didn't attack pearl harbour America wouldn't have stepped in when and as much as they did and we would have lost without them. So let's all thank the Japanese for helping awaken the beast.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the beast that used one mighty fist to tear single handedly through France and Belgium, blowing up Berlin and leaving a bit for those struggling russkies to play with, whilst using the other to rampage through Africa killing every Italian in sight.
Russia smashed em to bits. US swarmed them on the other side.
America won against the evil Nazi Radioactive Zombies with the help of the fusion bombs, laser blasters, and photon torpedos of the British Space Alliance and the Canadian Democractic Planatery Colonies. The radioactive Nazis eventually died out because they needed the valuable Transhyperanium extract to give them the vortessence needed to win but they eventually died out anyways
Really, 35 "dumb" ratings? Did they actually bother reading the post do you reckon? Irony.
It's good to know I'm not the only one with these opinions, and it's been enlightening reading through some of these posts.
I hate it when people say that "Hurff Durff if America didn't enter the war the Allies would have lost". If you were taught WW2 in the States you were more than likely taught the more Americanized version of history.
As I am no historian, could someone explain what on earth Finland was doing and why Russia and Finland fought each other?
If Hitler actually listened to his generals and let them lead, Germany could/probably have won the war.
[editline]02:16PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kamigawa;15923369]As I am no historian, could someone explain what on earth Finland was doing and why Russia and Finland fought each other?[/QUOTE]
Finland joined the axis in 1941. Stalin wanted the land. They fought. Finnish troops were veterans accustomed to the climate and knew what they were doing. Russians were poor equiped and trained conscripts.
Look at these badasses
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Finn_ski_troops.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Kamigawa;15923369]As I am no historian, could someone explain what on earth Finland was doing and why Russia and Finland fought each other?[/QUOTE]
Finland turned Nazi. Sort of.
[QUOTE=Aman;15923406]Finland joined the axis in 1941. Stalin wanted the land. They fought. Finnish troops were veterans accustomed to the climate and knew what they were doing. Russians were poor equiped and trained conscripts.
Look at these badasses
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Finn_ski_troops.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
That is slightly inaccurate inaccurate (the year part). They fought the Finns in the winter of 1940 because the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact also agreed to "spheres of influence" for Germany and the Soviet Union. The Soviets would get the baltic states and Finland, while Germany would get eastern Europe. However, Germany didn't invade eastern Europe, they mostly allied with them. The Finns didn't actually win, they agreed to a loss of territory in exchange for autonomy.
During Operation Barbarossa in 1941, the Finns recaptured those areas but they were soon driven back. They then agreed to a settlement that gave up the same territory plus more in exchange for autonomy. Finland was technically at war with the UK, but the UK never fought them. Sweden also helped the Finns with volunteers and refugee areas.
[QUOTE=Eneneh;15906028]No one won WW2, in the psychological sense. Even though, holy fuck, we were close to loosing the war.[/QUOTE]
since when did we ever loose a war good sir
No one wins in war
the allies did: Britain and its commonwealth nations, America, France and perhaps most of all Russia
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