[QUOTE=Kamigawa;15923369]As I am no historian, could someone explain what on earth Finland was doing and why Russia and Finland fought each other?[/QUOTE]
The Soviets wanted some territory north of leningrad and another area to the east. The Finns refused, and the USSR decided to take it by force. It was a disastrous war and in the end the Soviets got the territory they wanted, but it would've been barely enough to bury their dead.
Finland was not considered part of soviet influence with the molotov-ribbentrop pact. The USSR has little interest in finland, as it was a strongly anti-communist country after the finnish civil war. Finland before and during world war two was infamous for being a 'white' nation, meaning strongly conservative and violently anti-communist. The russian empire's long-time control over finland strongly exacerbated the anti-russian sentiment in soviet-finnish politics.
So, Soviet-Finnish relations were not very good at all and continued to be sour into the cold war.
Later on after Barbarossa, the finns joined the axis as a fascist ally. It was an opportunistic war about nationalism and territory expansion.
It's winning if we get what we want in a fight.
[editline]12:57AM[/editline]
BTW, Swedes helped Finland with 2,000 men or less, yohoo!
Blu did !
Didnt One of hitlers right hand men(who survived the war but commited suicide) try to sign a treaty with all countries except russia but hittler got pissed! So in a sence all of the countries lost.
[QUOTE=Conscript;15925718]
Finland was not considered part of soviet influence with the molotov-ribbentrop pact. .[/QUOTE]
It was:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-ribbentrop_pact#Final_negotiations_and_addressing_prior_hostilities[/url]
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;15928023]Didnt One of hitlers lutenits try to sign a treaty with all countries except russia but hittler got pissed! So in a sence all of the countries lost.[/QUOTE]
that's the stupidest think i've ever heard of
also - we all know the real victor of WW2, lithuania
we stormed the beaches in normandy, saved france and got rid of the japs.
[QUOTE=TrulliLulli;15960686]that's the stupidest think i've ever heard of
also - we all know the real victor of WW2, lithuania
we stormed the beaches in normandy, saved france and got rid of the japs.[/QUOTE]
Lithuania was also part of the Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=Dan The Man;15960726]Lithuania was also part of the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE]
that's just how awesome we are
OP
America is full of shit, Russia saved the day
no point of arguing cause FP is full of trolls and Americans, which is the same
In war, I think, that everybody is loser? yes?
EXCEPT GLORIOUS LEADER AND PEOPLES OF DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF KOREA!
DEATH TO THE EVIL CAPITALIST AMERICAN DOGS!
There's all this talk of there being no winner in the war. A fuck load of people died but we got space travel, radar, perfected flight, computers and medical advances from the war. Not to mention strong ties between allied countries and a massive warning of why we shouldn't let this kinda shit happen again.
[QUOTE=petieng;15961058]There's all this talk of there being no winner in the war. A fuck load of people died but we got space travel, radar, perfected flight, computers and medical advances from the war. Not to mention strong ties between allied countries and a massive warning of why we shouldn't let this kinda shit happen again.[/QUOTE]
How do you know that we wouldn't have made incredible technological advancements in peace time?
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;15961122]How do you know that we wouldn't have made incredible technological advancements in peace time?[/QUOTE]
Look at the past few years, compare them to World War 2 and the advancements we made during it, and the most competitive years in the Cold War.
Sure we have cell phones that can fit in the palm of your hand and laptops, but are those really advancements? People are too content with what they have, they don't want to improve upon the designs and create new products.
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;15961122]How do you know that we wouldn't have made incredible technological advancements in peace time?[/QUOTE]
Maybe we would have done...eventually. But the development of these technologies can be directly linked to the war. Advanced aircraft and radar due to the importance of air combat in WWII, rockets from v1 and V2 bombs, computers from enigma crackers, penicillin research for injured troops...
[QUOTE=petieng;15961264]Maybe we would have done...eventually. But the development of these technologies can be directly linked to the war. Advanced aircraft and radar due to the importance of air combat in WWII, rockets from v1 and V2 bombs, computers from enigma crackers, penicillin research for injured troops...[/QUOTE]
To be honest, the best thing to spur the advances we need for space travel (amongst numerous others) probably would occur if we got into a Cold War or, at best, a World War between China and some other nations.
Not saying I'm advocating World Wars or major conflicts, just that they seem to be the perfect catalyst for creative thought, capitalism does the same, but we see where that's going...
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;15961485]To be honest, the best thing to spur the advances we need for space travel (amongst numerous others) probably would occur if we got into a Cold War or, at best, a World War between China and some other nations.
Not saying I'm advocating World Wars or major conflicts, just that they seem to be the perfect catalyst for creative thought, capitalism does the same, but we see where that's going...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the cold war did a lot for space travel. The problem was, all goals were short term. With the moon landings it didn't matter why we were going there or what the astronauts did once they were there as long as they got there before the Russians. Just a 'flag and footprints' mission rather than a long term presence.
What would really help would be an economic space race which might be fueled by the gap between the shuttle retirement and Nasa's new rockets being completed. Corporations like SpaceX are competing to get contracts to haul stuff during the gap. Once corporations take the lead with space flight rather than national space agencies, you'll get rid of all the red tape and bureaucracy holding space exploration back.
Space travel will then be done for profit, and if there's any motivation for advancement other than war, it's profit.
[Img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UYyvZht2Qm0/SAsyUiITJ_I/AAAAAAAAAMI/G9rTWvjL0nQ/s320/skull_large1.jpg[/Img]
[B]I win every war.[/B]
If we're considering who won, let me explain.
Lets say, we need 100 dollars to win the war. We only have 90, so the US comes in, and gives the allies their 10 bucks (Their army) to win the battle.
We can say America turned the tide then, amrite? This is why Americans think they won, is because they turned the tide. But what about the pre-existing 90? Of it, 60 is the USSR, and 30 is the UK and the other western European countries. So, technically speaking, the USSR was far more important than America.
And if were using dollars in this example, Russias 60 would be quickly rising to the 90+, so perhaps they would have lost more men taking Germany, the US was not the real turning factor.
Cheerz.
[editline]04:36PM[/editline]
Alas, more is here. The Soviet Union had actually sent special forces to the border of Japan after Berlin was taken, and those troops eliminated over 1 million of the Japanese army. Then, a large force of Russians had been stated on the Japanese border the day the nukes dropped, and were cooperating with the American attack, but the Japanese surrendered that day due to the bombs. So Soviet troops never Blitz'd the shit out of those hentai faggots.
The development of penicillin had very little to do with the war effort, it was developed by civilian scientists with civilian funding.
In fact, the American government refused to fund research related to pennicillin at first.
The problem with D-Day was that Italy lost battles in Greece and Germany sent around 500k soldiers to greece to help them.
[editline]04:52PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valdor;15905925]The Allies.
It's kind of obvious, I mean you don't see Germany trying to take over all of Europe anymore, at least I hope you don't.[/QUOTE]
Only by diplomacy and economy :)
Germany had a vastly superior military when compared to Great Britain, America, and Russia. Their officers, strategies, soldiers, and weapons were better than others.
The problem was that Hitler, though he was an intelligent man highly experienced with politics, was a terrible tactician, and the fact that he was paranoia and insanity-stricken didn't help either.
It's been said that had Hitler not commanded troops and had he let his officers lead the military, the Germans would've won hands-down. However, you can't entirely blame Hitler for Germany's failures in military. He knew many of his officers hated him and he knew they'd try to assassinate him, so he controlled the military more than his officers.
However, it really goes back to the Battle of Britain. Had Britain not won the battle, Hitler would've not taken his anger out on Russia, he would still have an ally besides Japan, he would've not lost troops, and probably would've not lost the war.
[url]http://tinyurl.com/the-white-death[/url] the white death......Im dissapointed russia.
You know the war would've probably have been won by the Axis if it wasn't for Adolf H.'s sudden idea to attack a country that he knew he was going to get butt-fucked by.
So basically:
[b]What happened when the Allies where winning[/b]
Germany attacked Russia, lost a regiment and alot of friggin' guys. Thus, they had not enough men to protect their ass.
[b]What would have happened if the Germans where winning[/b]
Russia would be kicking the Allies' ass, due to Adolf H. asking for help, and this way, fucktons of tanks would've made us probably German/Russian/Communist/Other today.
America might have been in a bit of trouble if that was the case :v:
Logical thinking.
Also, fun fact:
Don't attack countries you [b][u]KNOW[/b][/u] will kick your ass.
[editline]08:14PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;15963244], he would still have an ally besides Japan[/QUOTE]
I think the Japanese wouldn't have been their allies after they got nuked. Reason being is because I think they got bat-shit scared out of their souls when they experienced one first-hand.
Japan + German Peace Keep = Nuke due to WWII, and Japan attacking America.
You know, it's funny how small countries tend to kick more ass to bigger countries.
You could fit probably two Japans in England, and another 100 in America. Jesus christ!
About 300 for Russia. lolol
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;15963244]Germany had a vastly superior military when compared to Great Britain, America, and Russia. Their officers, strategies, soldiers, and weapons were better than others.
The problem was that Hitler, though he was an intelligent man highly experienced with politics, was a terrible tactician, and the fact that he was paranoia and insanity-stricken didn't help either.
It's been said that had Hitler not commanded troops and had he let his officers lead the military, the Germans would've won hands-down. However, you can't entirely blame Hitler for Germany's failures in military. He knew many of his officers hated him and he knew they'd try to assassinate him, so he controlled the military more than his officers.
However, it really goes back to the Battle of Britain. Had Britain not won the battle, Hitler would've not taken his anger out on Russia, he would still have an ally besides Japan, he would've not lost troops, and probably would've not lost the war.[/QUOTE]
No because they ran out of supplies, men and machines. Their blitzkrieg doesn't work for extended periods of time. It's not made to be defensive or to dig in.
However, if Hitler kept Russia an ally they ocould have won. But they'd have to work for years to "fix" what happened in south europe and Africa.
[QUOTE=Black-Ice;15964489]You know the war would've probably have been won by the Axis if it wasn't for Adolf H.'s sudden idea to attack a country that he knew he was going to get butt-fucked by.
[/QUOTE]
Not that simple.
Firstly, Germany could not sustain their production without more materials such as energy, oil etc. that Russia could provide, they NEEDED Russia to continue the war effort. The plans to invade Russia started before Hitler even invaded France and it was not a stupid move at all. Russia was thriving at this time but its army was still lagging far behind technologically and tactically. Russia's invasion of Germany was inevitable in the years to come and Germany had to act there and then to stifle their impending attack. It's a no brainer that a far left dictatorship will not be friends with a far right dictatorship. Germany in my opinion could not have possibly won the war unless they repaired relations with Russia to a point at which they allied otherwise Russia were under too much pressure (with good reason) to help the allies.
Since it seems we have universally agreed that no one country won the war, and that it was the allies, who here thinks it's fucking hilarious that Finland used Russian arms against them?
The worlds best sniper, Simo Hayha, used a modified Mosin, killing hundreds and hundreds of Russians before getting half his face blown off. Did I mention that he still got 2 more confirmed kills a few minutes after his face was blown off? Yeah, the Finnish army was incredible.
World War II was won by the alliance between the United States, France, Canada, Austrailia, China, The British Empire, The Soviet Union, and tons of other countries.
The British and the Russians could not have launched a successful offensive against the Axis without the economic and military support from the United States(Lend Lease). And the United States could not have won the war without the Russians and the British. Britain provided a barrier against German Invasion and the Soviets kept the Germans busy, so we could launch D-Day. After the D-day landings, the germans pulled divisions off the Eastern Front, which allowed the Soviets to start their push west towards Berlin.
In other words... The Allies won.
Those Finish guys are badasses, especially The White Death (The Hayes guy).
Did you know he awoke from being in a coma for years the day the war ended? Perhaps Jesus or the flying spaghetti monster thought he was too pro so he had to be taken out of play :P
US of fucking A beeyotch!
[img]http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/10/captain_america.jpg[/img]
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