[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978705]In my opinion his content sometimes exits fair use and enters defamatory. It's okay if you disagree with that. Sometimes he just rails on people because he doesn't like them.[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't. First of all, it's only defamation when it's completely false and is said with the intention of hurting the person you're talking about. H3H3's stuff doesn't fall under any of that.
I'm not really that smart with all this kinda stuff but I feel crap for H3H3 and hope that they win as it's sych a shitty situation
[QUOTE=Snowmew;51978716]It's a good thing that you think it's okay if people disagree with you, since apparently the American legal system - among most others - disagrees with you. Whew, dodged a bullet there.[/QUOTE]
That's great man. The poked the bull and they got rammed. Sucks it happened to them, already expressed that but I feel they should realize their content can be seen as hate. They put on smiles but in reality they only make videos on people they despise. It's not hard to see. Yes, matt is doing something illegal. Yes, it sucks they are going through this. But it's not like they didn't fan these flames, and if you disagree; well we'll just have to go our separate ways.
Also, stop with the underhanded comments and just talk to me normally man. Mother Theresa. Lmfao.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978677]Yeah, you'll be thinking about how insane the guy you provoked was, while you're dead. How about instead of provoking the insane guy, you just not provoke anyone?
[editline]18th March 2017[/editline]
It's NOT justifiable, but he still did it; and you're dead. Sucks doesn't it? How about you just don't provoke people "for the luls"?[/QUOTE]
there are 3 readily apparent things wrong with your argument and why it doesn't work in the real world (too lazy to go any further than that)
1. "Provoking" can mean anything and is ambiguous. In some cultures staring at someone too long can be provoking.
2. Human rights exist for a reason. Killing someone because they did something you didn't like (NOT in self defense) is wrong. Without recognized basic human rights everyone would be killing everyone and we would have no structured society.
3. We live in the 21st century. The "rules of the jungle" argument you are pushing sounds ridiculous when we are communicating over a forum with people all over the world through the internet.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978728]That's great man. The poked the bull and they got rammed. Sucks it happened to them, already expressed that but I feel they should realize their content can be seen as hate. They put on smiles but in reality they only make videos on people they despise. It's not hard to see. Yes, matt is doing something illegal. Yes, it sucks they are going through this. But it's not like they didn't fan these flames, and if you disagree; well we'll just have to go our separate ways.
Also, stop with the underhanded comments and just talk to me normally man. Mother Theresa. Lmfao.[/QUOTE]
"I don't think comedians should make jokes about anybody other than themselves, just in case they accidentally 'provoke' someone who's stupid and immoral enough to try to put them in financial ruin through frivolous litigation. In fact, comedians shouldn't even make jokes about themselves, just in case they try to sue themselves!"
How can I talk normally to someone whose main argument is that it's the "rules of the jungle" and whenever they get an opportunity to reply, they just cross their arms and say it's okay for everyone else in the world to disagree with their flawed opinion, because they have some sort of self-righteous attitude that makes them right and everyone else wrong?
I'm not advocating for what matt hoss did. I'm just saying don't play the victim while showing yourself crying on camera to garner sympathy; when you are the one who put yourself on the predators radar.
I would totally be behind them otherwise. Hell, I kinda already am behind them.
Also, I'm not crossing my arms or whatever you're saying, I just see we have a fundamental disconnect on how we see h3h3's content. That's why I'm saying you CAN disagree with me, because it's something that's disagreeable upon, unlike what you're suggesting.
I'm still agreeing with you, it's wrong what matt hoss is doing.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978749]I'm not advocating for what matt hoss did. I'm just saying don't play the victim while showing yourself crying on camera to garner sympathy; when you are the one who put yourself on the predators radar.
I would totally be behind them otherwise. Hell, I kinda already am behind them.[/QUOTE]
But they ARE objectively 100% the victims. Talking about someone making a bad video is in no way shape or form "asking for it" for a 50k lawsuit.
[QUOTE=simkas;51978761]But they ARE objectively 100% the victims. Talking about someone making a bad video is in no way shape or form "asking for it" for a 50k lawsuit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah man, and it's going to get settled in court, and matt hoss will pay the court fees. I'm not saying they should lose the case at all. I'm just saying they poked the hornets nest.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978766]Yeah man, and it's going to get settled in court, and matt hoss will pay the court fees. I'm not saying they should lose the case at all. I'm just saying they poked the hornets nest.[/QUOTE]
And? That doesn't justify it and mean they shouldn't do it. You shouldn't shy away from doing anything even slightly critical of anything just in the off chance that the person you're criticizing might actually turn out to be insane and find and kill you.
[QUOTE=simkas;51978772]And? That doesn't justify it and mean they shouldn't do it. You shouldn't shy away from doing anything even slightly critical of anything just in the off chance that the person you're criticizing might actually turn out to be insane and find and kill you.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree. But don't start crying on camera when someone does finally deal with you. Especially if all you're doing is being critical of people.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978780]Yeah, I agree. But don't start crying on camera when someone does finally deal with you. Especially if all you're doing is being critical of people.[/QUOTE]
Why not?? Why should you not be telling people what's happening when you're clearly the victim? That's like saying that people that were the victim of a crime shouldn't tell anyone about it and report it.
Jesus christ, this is some next level acrobatics.
[QUOTE=Xavith;51978793]Jesus christ, this is some next level acrobatics.[/QUOTE]
He should do parkour.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978780]Yeah, I agree. But don't start crying on camera when someone does finally deal with you. Especially if all you're doing is being critical of people.[/QUOTE]
Again you miss the point. The reasonable response would be to do nothing or maybe make a response video to fuel the drama, as many YouTube personalities do, just as the reasonable response to putting your head in a crocodile's mouth would be getting your head chomped. That, I could say, would be fine to assume, and you could rightfully say "well, they were asking for it, what did they expect?" Lots of YouTubers make these call-out videos and lots of those get responses. Totally reasonable that they should have known a response video was in order, and if h3h3 got on camera and started whining and crying over a response video, then I could totally agree with your point.
But what you're saying is that [b]filing frivolous lawsuits to financially destroy someone[/b] is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected, just like how raping someone who wears slutty clothing is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected, or killing someone who was fucking with you is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected.
How can you not see that difference? The line is very clear.
I'm not saying I agree with the lawsuit at all, but I think it is true that Ethan could be a little more responsible with what he says when he makes a video on someone. Not to avoid lawsuits or anything, but to avoid potentially ruining someone's livelihood or future employment options.
Ethan has even admitted it himself around the time he did the Leafy video that it's a content creator's responsibility to be fair to the people and things they are making videos about, since if they say one wrong thing it could be damaging to the person or their career potential. And that's not just because of trolls flocking to the person's YouTube account.
For example, let's say Ethan makes a video on some guy who has a strange hobby that isn't really harming anyone, then joked about how much of a creep that person is for a few minutes- that video would likely be on the first page of results in a google search on that person, which could damage the "creep's" reputation when looking for jobs.
However, in Bold Guy's case, Matt pretty much damaged his own reputation by making posting the videos in the first place, since they were legitimately bad and self-incriminating, so I wouldn't apply that argument here.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;51978907]Again you miss the point. The reasonable response would be to do nothing or maybe make a response video to fuel the drama, as many YouTube personalities do, just as the reasonable response to putting your head in a crocodile's mouth would be getting your head chomped. That, I could say, would be fine to assume, and you could rightfully say "well, they were asking for it, what did they expect?" Lots of YouTubers make these call-out videos and lots of those get responses. Totally reasonable that they should have known a response video was in order, and if h3h3 got on camera and started whining and crying over a response video, then I could totally agree with your point.
But what you're saying is that [b]filing frivolous lawsuits to financially destroy someone[/b] is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected, just like how raping someone who wears slutty clothing is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected, or killing someone who was fucking with you is a totally reasonable response and should have been something expected.
How can you not see that difference? The line is very clear.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I would have to agree with that comparison. It's not good what's happening to them, but it's also not out of the ordinary. Frivolous lawsuits like this happen all the time(honestly why I originally thought it was in that grey legal area), and for even less reason too. It sucks, but they are in a field where these things happen as commonplace.
The crying and the tears seem to imply they have no clue what they're getting to, which is kind of a shame because they DO make inflammatory videos and DO have a very large, very susceptible audience; that have time and time again flooded the content/comment sections/private messages of the targeted people in the h3h3 videos. They have a large influence on their audience and if they ever give the impression that someone else is "the enemy", h3h3 has that young crowd of people who will do whatever they can do shut down that person "for the luls".
It's a tricky subject and I personally feel the best solution would to be leave everyone else out of their content from now on.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979038]Yeah, I would have to agree with that comparison. It's not good what's happening to them, but it's also not out of the ordinary. Frivolous lawsuits like this happen all the time(honestly why I originally thought it was in that grey legal area), and for even less reason too. It sucks, but they are in a field where these things happen as commonplace.
The crying and the tears seem to imply they have no clue what they're getting to, which is kind of a shame because they DO make inflammatory videos and DO have a very large, very susceptible audience; that have time and time again flooded the content/comment sections/private messages of the targeted people in the h3h3 videos. They have a large influence on their audience and if they ever give the impression that someone else is "the enemy", h3h3 has that young crowd of people who will do whatever they can do shut down that person "for the luls".
It's a tricky subject and I personally feel the best solution would to be leave everyone else out of their content from now on.[/QUOTE]
I know it's asking a lot for a Canadian to not assume that all Americans are frivolous litigants but this actually doesn't happen all the time.
And yet again you say that h3h3 should stop doing what they've been doing since they started to get popular; namely, satirize other people. Fortunately, criticism and satire are not only cornerstones of a proper democratic society, but also qualifications for fair use.
You seem to have suggested that if someone went to h3h3's house and brutally raped and murdered both of them, that's somewhat their fault because they "provoked" people by satirizing them. I hope someday you recognize that satire is not some sort of no-mans-land that people shouldn't do lest they get sued (or killed) for provoking people.
Here is the "Inflammatory" video that Matt Hoss is suing them over.
[video=youtube;_tZTkGdSKyc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tZTkGdSKyc[/video]
They seem very supportive of his work.
Toothpick
I'm just saying but what you're saying is genuinely so retarded its not even funny
My god you are posting some wickedplayer494 tier stuff.
"Yeah I know they're the victims but haha they should have just known better"
[editline]18th March 2017[/editline]
It's almost as if you have no idea what "Freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press is"
H3H3 are 100% in their right to say he's creepy. That's what we call an opinion mate. it doesn't matter if you fucking agree with it or not, its an opinion. Saying "That's just how the world works" to a legitimately fraudulent lawsuit with no defense is dense.
You're dismissing entirely the fact that the lawsuit is bullshit by going "Haha, rules of the jungle"
The only reason it was career ending for Matt Hoss is because this donkey reacted in 100% the worst possible way. If this guy owned up to what they said, ignored them, or even joked about it, everyone would have loved him and he'd be getting way more subscribers and views.
I don't see where I've advocated for what he's doing, after I learned that prolonging a case like this is illegal.
Please stop remembering my first post and flashing that in your brain everytime you see me post. I've already called myself stupid for arguing that previously.
Also I don't see how I'm being retarded, but that may because I don't blow shit out of proportion, like constantly; every post.
I have a feeling this will be taken to appeals some how?
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978766]Yeah man, and it's going to get settled in court, and matt hoss will pay the court fees. I'm not saying they should lose the case at all. I'm just saying they poked the hornets nest.[/QUOTE]
They didn't poke the hornets nest, if anything they walked by and glanced at the hornets nest and then the hornets nest took them to court for ridiculous defamation claims because the hornets nest has a tiny pencil-tip cock.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979186]I don't see where I've advocated for what he's doing, after I learned that prolonging a case like this is illegal.
Please stop remembering my first post and flashing that in your brain everytime you see me post. I've already called myself stupid for arguing that previously.[/QUOTE]
Either way, you're just dismissing the stress that is involved behold it because
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978780]Yeah, I agree. But don't start crying on camera when someone does finally deal with you. Especially if all you're doing is being critical of people.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978266]I find it ironic how you can make inflammatory videos about someone saying how they're a rapist and they're making rapist fantasy videos with their creepy face and stupid parkour[/QUOTE]
"Gosh shouldn't have called him a rapist and then cried on camera"
I just rewatched the video. They didn't say the word "rapist" a single time. Not once. They never even imply it, and if they did, with their tone it wouldn't be like you said. Unless I somehow missed something, you're basically accusing them of calling him a rapist.
In fact, they weren't even TOXIC towards Bold Guy.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978621]
Still, quit with the crying on camera and playing the victim.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51978640]I know they ARE a victim,[/QUOTE]
are they the victim? or aren't they? Can you make up your mind please?
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979186]I don't see where I've advocated for what he's doing, after I learned that prolonging a case like this is illegal.
Please stop remembering my first post and flashing that in your brain everytime you see me post. I've already called myself stupid for arguing that previously.
Also I don't see how I'm being retarded, but that may because I don't blow shit out of proportion, like constantly; every post.[/QUOTE]
How are any of us blowing anything out of proportion? [b]You[/b] said that if someone was "fucking with you" and you killed them, that'd be somewhat their fault. [b]You[/b] said that h3h3 - a channel built on satirizing people - should stop satirizing people because bad things might happen. You continue to argue both of these points where everyone obviously disagrees with you and thinks you're being imbecilic.
[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1501292&p=49518971&viewfull=1#post49518971"]"Why the fuck are you blaming Matt? h3h3 caused their own lawsuit by satirizing a stupid YouTube video, something that's a big no-no ESPECIALLY when they more than likely knew he was fucking crazy."[/URL]
[QUOTE=J!NX;51979204]Either way, you're just dismissing the stress that is involved behold it because
"Gosh shouldn't have called him a rapist and then cried on camera"
I just rewatched the video. They didn't say the word "rapist" a single time. Not once. They never even imply it, and if they did, with their tone it wouldn't be like you said. Unless I somehow missed something, you're basically accusing them of calling him a rapist.
In fact, they weren't even TOXIC towards Bold Guy.
are they the victim? or aren't they? Can you make up your mind please?[/QUOTE]
This discussion will never go anywhere as long as we disagree upon whether or not h3h3 videos can ruin peoples livelihoods. If you don't think their videos have a direct negative impact on those people, then the discussion ends here. I'm not having a discussion with someone who has a different perception of reality with me. Our arguments have to be based on a point by point basis and if we can't agree on one of the very first addressed points we will likely always have a disconnect on this issue.
If you so much as potentially take a single dollar away from another man without his wherewithal, I cannot support you.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979217]This discussion will never go anywhere as long as we disagree upon whether or not h3h3 videos can ruin peoples livelihoods. If you don't think their videos have a direct negative impact on those people, then the discussion ends here. I'm not having a discussion with someone who has a different perception of reality with me. Our arguments have to be based on a point by point basis and if we can't agree on one of the very first addressed points we will likely always have a disconnect on this issue.
If you so much as potentially take a single dollar away from another man without his wherewithal, I cannot support you. And judging by how you are crusading against me it wouldn't be a stretch to assume you're one of the thousands of h3h3's fans who goes onto the targeted peoples videos and start shitposting? I mean you do it a lot even here.[/QUOTE]
I'm all for suing someone if they commit a tort that has a "direct negative impact" on you. Of course! That's what defamation lawsuits are for, 100%, and I totally support that, along with the rest of the enormous range of torts available for lawsuits in the US and most other countries.
Where your argument falls through is in two places, which we've been trying to get through to you:
1.) There is [b][i]no legal remedy[/i][/b] for being satirized in the United States.
2.) Matt [b][i]failed to prove any direct (or even indirect) negative impact[/i][/b] caused by h3h3's video.
There is no discussion here. There is no disagreement. There is just your opinion, and the correct legal conclusion, which are totally separate.
Toothpick, how hard is it for you to accept that what matt is doing is wrong, but you don't feel sorry for h3h3?
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979217]This discussion will never go anywhere as long as we disagree upon whether or not h3h3 videos can ruin peoples livelihoods. If you don't think their videos have a direct negative impact on those people, then the discussion ends here. I'm not having a discussion with someone who has a different perception of reality with me. Our arguments have to be based on a point by point basis and if we can't agree on one of the very first addressed points we will likely always have a disconnect on this issue.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how that has relevance on anything at all.
All forms of critic can ruin a lively-hood. Would you blame a film critic for crying about being sued because he said mean things about a shitty movie? He has a right to do so, as you agree, but you're acting like he has to be some sort of Klingon warrior and some shit and be a tuff boi cause "Rules of the forest"
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979217]
If you so much as potentially take a single dollar away from another man without his wherewithal, I cannot support you. And judging by how you are crusading against me it wouldn't be a stretch to assume you're one of the thousands of h3h3's fans who goes onto the targeted peoples videos and start shitposting? I mean you do it a lot even here.[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough I actually did this exact thing. Except I didn't crusade, as you said. I simply said, to put it short "if Matt hoss was cool about it, he wouldn't have gotten the reaction that he got". I was being fair and reasonable to Matt Hoss, because he genuinely reacted in a way that clearly wasn't going to help him.
I'm "Crusading" against you because your posts are a crime against sanity
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51979238]Toothpick, how hard is it for you to accept that what matt is doing is wrong, but you don't feel sorry for h3h3?[/QUOTE]
This; is exactly what I'm saying. I honestly don't see what's so retarded about this.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51979247]This; is exactly what I'm saying. I honestly don't see what's so retarded about this.[/QUOTE]
you're trying to pick a fight with others and pushing your opinion hard as hell even though everyone else here disagrees with you on a fundamental level, and not presenting any real arguments other than "well this is my moral code and mine is better than yours because stuff." that's the problem. if you had some logical conclusion to back up your moral code, maybe then we could understand your position. but without it, you just seem foolish.
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