The Logarithmic Spiral: Nature being awesome yet again

[elitehakor v2]

Spirals are pretty cool.

[Dragon Master]

[QUOTE=Heres Jonny!;26025800]I just threw this together. Fucking trippy, man..

[img_thumb]http://anyhub.net/file/algorithmic-spiral.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]

I wanna make it into a poster for my bedroom wall :saddowns:

[Mr. Scorpio]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26025022]That's true, but how does "nature" know that's the most efficient path? How does a hawk know that flying in that path is the most efficient way to fly? How did vegetables end up growing in that manner?

More unsolved questions. :saddowns:

To me, it's at least somewhat convincing evidence of [I]some[/I] sort of intelligent design in the universe.[/QUOTE]

And to think you have a Spider Jerusalem avatar. :colbert:

Does "survival of the fittest" mean anything to you? The animals that behave and react and grow in the most efficient way will be the most prosperous. We know that it's evolution because when something can't change to be more efficient, it doesn't. For example, the Laryngeal Nerve.

[editline]13th November 2010[/editline]

[QUOTE=linksysruler;26025618]I'm not saying its random, but it's not just one species using the spiral. The amount of species who do use it are countless. Not to mention that it seems to form naturally like in the picture of the hurricane or beaches.[/QUOTE]

Methinks that it would make complete sense for it to exist in something like sand or clouds.

[not_Morph53]

[QUOTE=W32.Deadcode.A;26025159][img_thumb]http://media.musictoday.com/store/bands/1968/product_large/MUDD562.JPG[/img_thumb]

Reminded me of this[/QUOTE]

I've had nightmares of Millipedes crawling down my urethra, I dunno why.

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26025980]And to think you have a Spider Jerusalem avatar. :colbert:

Does "survival of the fittest" mean anything to you? The animals that behave and react and grow in the most efficient way will be the most prosperous. We know that it's evolution because when something can't change to be more efficient, it doesn't. For example, the Laryngeal Nerve.[/QUOTE]
I'm familiar with these concepts and I support their existence, but to me, at least, it still doesn't [I]fully[/I] explain certain patterns in life and the universe. Sure, animals grow in the most efficient way possible - but how? It's hard for me to believe that it was simply millions upon millions of years of trial and error.

At the same time, I don't buy into the belief that a god created absolutely everything or any of that bullshit, I just think that [I]something[/I] intelligent had a role to play in the coming together of the universe. You could call me a deist, I guess.

[Sillypiggy]

holy shit! Gurren lagann was right

[Fire Kracker]

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;26024495][img_thumb]http://correlatedcontents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/uzu21.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
god damnit

i wanted to post :(

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26025980]Methinks that it would make complete sense for it to exist in something like sand or clouds.[/QUOTE]
I remember hearing something about how really wicked, windy electrical storms or similar natural phenomena were supposedly the cause of some spiral-patterned crop circles

[editline]13th November 2010[/editline]

Pretty interesting stuff

[Sillypiggy]

if you look at how dna works you can see that its a spiral that goes into a spiral that goes into a spiral.
[img_thumb]http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/MGA2-02-45.jpg[/img_thumb]

[Upgrade123]

[QUOTE=OvB;26024175]Fibonacci sequence/spiral.
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21.....
Shit just got Dan Brown in here.[/QUOTE]

Isn't the Fibonacci spiral slightly different than a normal logarithmic spiral?
Or am I just talking out of my ass?

It seems to "swing out" more than the logarithmic one.
[img]http://www.buildingmind.com/Fibonacci_spiral.svg.png[/img]

Actually they do look the same. Nevermind.

[Mr. Scorpio]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26026803]I'm familiar with these concepts and I support their existence, but to me, at least, it still doesn't [I]fully[/I] explain certain patterns in life and the universe. Sure, animals grow in the most efficient way possible - but how? It's hard for me to believe that it was simply millions upon millions of years of trial and error.

At the same time, I don't buy into the belief that a god created absolutely everything or any of that bullshit, I just think that [I]something[/I] intelligent had a role to play in the coming together of the universe. You could call me a deist, I guess.[/QUOTE]

uh

it kind of was millions of years of trial and error

i dont see how that's unfeasible

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26026905]uh

it kind of was millions of years of trial and error

i dont see how that's unfeasible[/QUOTE]
Never said it was unfeasible, I just think it's unlikely that animals like hawks or moths would [I]ever [/I]come to understand that flying in a perfect spiral is the most efficient way to fly, let alone have the ability to pass this knowledge down to each generation

[Mr. Scorpio]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26026951]Never said it was unfeasible, I just think it's unlikely that animals like hawks or moths would [I]ever [/I]come to understand that flying in a perfect spiral is the most efficient way to fly, let alone have the ability to pass this knowledge down to each generation[/QUOTE]

How is that any different than birds flying in triangular formations to conceive energy?

they behave that way because the animals that were inclined to behave that way survived better. It's not like secret knowledge passed from bird to bird, it's instinct.

the brain isn't immune to evolution you know. It can evolve to think certain things and do certain things just like any other part of the body.

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26026988]the brain isn't immune to evolution you know. It can evolve to think certain things and do certain things just like any other part of the body.[/QUOTE]
Makes more sense, I could see that - but I'm still inclined to believe that there was [I]something[/I] that kicked everything off, if you will, to set things in motion that would lead to evolution and the like.

[st0rmforce]

[QUOTE=Upgrade123;26026876]Isn't the Fibonacci spiral slightly different than a normal logarithmic spiral?
Or am I just talking out of my ass?

It seems to "swing out" more than the logarithmic one.
[img_thumb]http://www.buildingmind.com/Fibonacci_spiral.svg.png[/img_thumb]

Actually they do look the same. Nevermind.[/QUOTE]
They are different types of spiral.
A lot of people get them mixed up though because they look very similar. I've even seen textbooks which say that the Nautilus shell is a Fibonacci spiral.
:downs:

[benzi2k7]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26027056]Makes more sense, I could see that - but I'm still inclined to believe that there was [I]something[/I] that kicked everything off, if you will, to set things in motion that would lead to evolution and the like.[/QUOTE]That something doesn't have to be God or any other intelligent being.

[st0rmforce]

How come squids are better at mathematics than me?

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;26027118]That something doesn't have to be God or any other intelligent being.[/QUOTE]
I meant something intelligent - but not necessarily God, Allah, Cthulhu, or even a "god" in the general sense. Some kinda higher entity.

This atheism v. deism debate is kinda off-topic

[Dr. Disciple]

Why do I have this feeling in the back of my head that the logarithmic spiral is somehow connected to the creation of the universe...

[Number-41]

Euler was a fucking genius...

[swebonny]

[QUOTE=Upgrade123;26026876]Isn't the Fibonacci spiral slightly different than a normal logarithmic spiral?
Or am I just talking out of my ass?

It seems to "swing out" more than the logarithmic one.
[img_thumb]http://www.buildingmind.com/Fibonacci_spiral.svg.png[/img_thumb]

Actually they do look the same. Nevermind.[/QUOTE]

That is because the Golden spiral is one kind of logarithmic spiral. As Thepuska said, "exponential spiral" might be a better name as the radius gets bigger and bigger for every degree.
[img_thumb]http://www.codecogs.com/gif.latex?r%20=%20e^{\theta}[/img_thumb], thanks Puska. R is the radius, and for each degree theta it becomes bigger.

[st0rmforce]

[QUOTE=Swebonny;26028288]That is because the Golden spiral is one kind of logarithmic spiral. As Thepuska said, "exponential spiral" might be a better name as the radius gets bigger and bigger for every degree.
[img_thumb]http://www.codecogs.com/gif.latex?r%20=%20e^{\theta}[/img_thumb], thanks Puska. R is the radius, and for each degree theta it becomes bigger.[/QUOTE]

And the golden spiral is actually different from a Fibonacci spiral as well. They are incredibly similar, but are different.

[Dazza]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26027056]Makes more sense, I could see that - but I'm still inclined to believe that there was [I]something[/I] that kicked everything off, if you will, to set things in motion that would lead to evolution and the like.[/QUOTE]

If it makes you feel more comfortable to believe fantasy, rather than fact, go ahead.

I will rely on my science for guidance, you rely on your syllogisms for guidance.

[editline]13th November 2010[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dr. Disciple;26027871]Why do I have this feeling in the back of my head that the logarithmic spiral is somehow connected to the creation of the universe...[/QUOTE]

Because you are high

[swebonny]

Hm, want to enlighten me?

Edit:

Ah, you mean that the Fibonacci spiral approximate the Golden spiral.

[st0rmforce]

[QUOTE=Swebonny;26028385]Hm, want to enlighten me?

Edit:

Ah, you mean that the Fibonacci spiral approximate the Golden spiral.[/QUOTE]
Kind of.

The Fibonacci spiral is made by drawing squares with side-lengths increasing through the Fibonacci sequence in a spiral, then drawing arcs from corner to corner. It isn't technically a logarithmic spiral, but it is a pretty close approximation.

The Golden spiral increases by phi each quarter-turn and is a true logarithmic spiral.

It's kind of like the difference between 22/7 and pi...only less so...sort of...

I don't know. Ask a mathematician

[DrLuke]

[QUOTE=Furioso;26024252]In more layman's terms, if you draw a line through the spiral, the length of the segments between the spiral's sections get [I][B]exponentially[/B][/I]larger as you move farther from the spiral's origin. Logarithmic.
[/QUOTE]

No, the section don't grow exponentially, but logarithmically.

[Robber]

[QUOTE=OvB;26024175]Fibonacci sequence/spiral.
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21.....
Shit just got Dan Brown in here.[/QUOTE]
That's not logarithmic. That's the Fibonacci sequence. :downs:

[ThePuska]

[QUOTE=DrLuke;26029914]No, the section don't grow exponentially, but logarithmically.[/QUOTE]

The length of the segment between any two sections of the spiral as a function of angle:
[img]http://www.codecogs.com/gif.latex?d(\theta)%20=%20e^{\theta%20+%202\pi}%20-%20e^{\theta}[/img]
[img]http://www.codecogs.com/gif.latex?d(\theta)%20=%20e^{\theta}%20\times%20e^{2\pi}%20-%20e^{\theta}%20=%20(e^{2\pi}%20-%201)%20\times%20e^{\theta}[/img]

That's an exponential function. The distance grows exponentially.

[Ringo_Satu]

This shit is worth a conspiracy.
I bet the illuminati are behind this.

[Intenso]

[QUOTE=Ringo_Satu;26030747]This shit is worth a conspiracy.
I bet the illuminati are behind this.[/QUOTE]
illuminati created the universe

you heard it from facepunch