[QUOTE=Haunted;31600137]I always thought the whole time spinner thing was a weak plot. Throughout the entire series they could have used it all the time. They used it to prevent a gryphons death yet none of the actual characters[/QUOTE]
ye, what about dumbledore, mad eye, fred, lupin, tonks, sirius, dobby, everyone who died.
It's fuckin retarded
"Bad things happen to wizards who mess with time harry"
i was expecting him to take out a glock and say die mothafucka and smoke his ass
Time Travel is such an overpowered ability.
[QUOTE=KlaseR;31616724]i was expecting him to take out a glock and say die mothafucka and smoke his ass[/QUOTE]
I was tempted to do that, but muthafucka is hard to say in a Brittish accent
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;31606064]Because it's a paradox, it can't happen. Because if it did, he would never get into the situation in the first place. It kinda cancels itself out.
It is mindfuck, how could he fail? Well he could trip over a rock, maybe he doesn't hit, maybe he takes a wrong turn on his way there. Anything, he just cannot succeed because otherwise it would not happen.
What's that movie which predicts people's deaths? Like it had a number and a date. It's the same principle which explores concepts like fate/destiny and time. In that movie, if I remember correctly, it works in the way that if you're on that list, as in, if the letter says 214 people will die tomorrow, then 214 people will die tomorrow, no matter what the fuck you do.
If you, in desperation, take everyone and put them in a tiny bunker, seperate them from each other in tiny rooms each and sedate them - then the roof will cave in and crush 214 of them, or the sedative you used will end up killing 214 of them.
Way I see it, in the Harry Potter universe, going back in time does not make you free to change things, in fact you become even more constricted [I](or at least you will percieve being more constricted)[/I] as you will feel like you're being pulled by destiny, or forced to do certain things.
In the book, Harry is forced to throw a rock, and he's also forced to use the Patronus spell. You could say; what if he chose not to? Well, then the dementors would have given him the Kiss, and he would never have traveled back in time, thus creating a paradox. Because of that, the Patronus spell has to be cast. It has to be cast because it has already happened. The past is already set in stone.
The reason why you would percieve being constricted in the past, but not in the present time, is because when you're in the past, you already have an idea of what will happen. (Of course, you don't know everything, Harry, for example, did not know that it was himself that cast the patronus. And similarly, nobody except Harry himself would know that Voldemort was in fact Harry himself)
At least in the Harry Potter universe, time is a single entity it seems. You don't have multiple timelines or stuff like that, everything happens in the same timeline, and what has happened before is completely set in stone.
So yes, the paradox would be responsible for his failure. Just like the paradox was responsible for Harry succeeding when he had to cast the Patronus.
[editline]8th August 2011[/editline]
"[i]And then it hit him - he understood. He hadn't seen his father - he had seen[/i] himself[i] -
Harry flung himself out from behind the bush and pulled out his wang.
'EXPECTO PATRONUM!' he yelled.
And out of the end of his wang burst, not a shapeless cloud of mist, but a blinding, dazzling, silver animal. [...]
'Did anyone see you?'
'Yes, haven't you been listening?[/i] I[i] saw me but I thought I was my dad! It's OK!'
'Harry, I can't believe it - you conjured up a Patronus that drove away all those Dementors! That's very, [/i]very [i] advanced magic ...'
'I knew I could do it this time,' said Harry, 'because I'd already done it ... Does that make sense?'[/i]
We don't get it explicitly explained, but the way I understand it, it's simply not possible to change the course of history. If it happened the first time, it will happen regardless of what you do when you go back in time. Which means, was Voldemort alive before you went back many years to kill him? If yes, then you've already failed.
The only reason why there's "rules" about not getting seen, is because it actually affects the present time - before you go back in time to do it. As explained in the book, if you went back in time and barged into your own room naked, you'd not change history, you'd simply realize who that strange fucker was 2 months back.
[editline]8th August 2011[/editline]
See my example with that movie. Nothing you do can stop the prediction from being fulfilled.
If you go out of your house to escape the fires, a plane will crash down on you; if you stay inside, you'll burn. If you do something completely different like digging yourself down and hiding in a god damned Vault, you'll be eaten by mutants.
So does that mean fate is sentient? Maybe. Or maybe it just means that the past, present and future are already set in stone. After all, do you really have a choice? Is it really a choice when you decide which course of action you will take? You could say it doesn't make any sense that that the world would change it's own actions based on what choice you make. But you only have one shot. So perhaps only 1 of them actually did happen, you just never really had a choice.
You could have stayed inside the house and the fires would have gone out. The Vault is safe, but you chose to go outside, and thus you got hit by a plane. There's no redoing that.
This is all just thought experimenting of course. But it's the only thing that makes sense for me in the Harry Potter universe. If time is set in stone from the get go, that explains why the time turners are not all that dangerous, only extremely confusing.
Well how do we know that he [I]didn't[/I]? After all, we never do get to hear EVERYTHING that Voldemort does. So maybe he did act "differently" [I](even though there would be no "differently", as it would always have been him taking over the role)[/I][/QUOTE]
Great reply!
I like your thought's about how the Harry Potter universe would work, but to make those applicable, you would need a complete new set of physics, apparently.
But also, what would you make of the butterfly effect in this universe? Because - if the past is set in stone, every time he goes back in time; he has to take the exact same steps; breathe at the exact same times etc. Because otherwise the butterfly effect would, effectively, change the present, right?
And honestly that seems pretty unrealistic.. That is unless destiny has such a strong grip of the universe that everything is already set, both the past and the future. Wouldnt it?
Just a few thoughts!
This was not intended to question you mate, I just find the theories you wrote interesting :)
I might also be wrong on a few things - it's pretty late right now. Not sure if I'm thinking straight or not lol!
You know, Dumbledore never actually owned the three Deathly Hallows all at once (He gave the cloak to Harry), but if he had put in a little bit of effort he could have. Having all 3 makes the owner invincible. That, combined with the necklace would have meant that he (or Harry if he hadn't dropped the stone in the forest) could have been a [B]time traveling invisible, invincible wizard with the most powerful weapon on the planet, the elder wand.[/B]
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;31603712]Well, did Tom (Actually Harry in disguise) end up in Azkaban? If not, then there's no risk of that.
Nope, he didn't, so mission accomplished before he even tried.
Again, nothing can change in the past. Everything is set in stone, there's just some things we don't know about.
For example in book 3, we think that the hippogryph dies, but it never actually dies, it was saved all along because of the time traveling. There's no changing the past, it all happened in the first place.
Similarly, if the "Harry is Voldemort" alternative ending was true, then everything would happen exactly as it did all the way up to near the end of book 3, and Tom would have been Harry in disguise all along.[/QUOTE]
But the only damn reason that that's how things turned out is because they went back and changed things.
That doesn't mean that you can't change history, it's just that you can't do anything to make yourself not go back and change history.
[editline]10th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;31643200]You know, Dumbledore never actually owned the three Deathly Hallows all at once (He gave the cloak to Harry), but if he had put in a little bit of effort he could have. Having all 3 makes the owner invincible. That, combined with the necklace would have meant that he (or Harry if he hadn't dropped the stone in the forest) could have been a [B]time traveling invisible, invincible wizard with the most powerful weapon on the planet, the elder wand.[/B][/QUOTE]
why did he just drop the stone in the forest again
isn't a badger or something going to pick it up and take over the world with undead badgers
I think JKR did that so that no one would be able to become invincible because supposedly the stone would be lost forever. Although can't harry just go to roughly that spot in the forrest and say Accio Resurrection Stone. (Or whatever the 'bring' spell was)
Wouldn't work out, Harry and Hermoine had to live through those 3 hours or whatever it was in the third book to reappear where they left off.
Meaning harry would of had to wait 30+ years to get back where they left off.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;31606064]"And then it hit him - he understood. He hadn't seen his father - he had seen himself -
Harry flung himself out from behind the bush and pulled out his [B]wang[/B].
'EXPECTO PATRONUM!' he yelled.
And out of the end of his [B]wang[/B] burst, not a shapeless cloud of mist, but a blinding, dazzling, silver animal. [...][/QUOTE]
I laughed way too hard at this
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;31643200]You know, Dumbledore never actually owned the three Deathly Hallows all at once (He gave the cloak to Harry), but if he had put in a little bit of effort he could have. Having all 3 makes the owner invincible. That, combined with the necklace would have meant that he (or Harry if he hadn't dropped the stone in the forest) could have been a [B]time traveling invisible, invincible wizard with the most powerful weapon on the planet, the elder wand.[/B][/QUOTE]
Lol'd
[QUOTE=mr apple;31644386]Wouldn't work out, Harry and Hermoine had to live through those 3 hours or whatever it was in the third book to reappear where they left off.
Meaning harry would of had to wait 30+ years to get back where they left off.[/QUOTE]
If that's the biggest problem he'd have to face I'm sure he'd be fine to just live in a different time if it meant Voldemort was no longer alive.
All of this talk about complex time theory is really interesting though. Although technically at the time of the Third Book, Voldemort had not come back to life yet, so perhaps Harry doing this would assure that Voldemort would not ever return. He would find out that it was HIM that killed his parents and had the curse rebound etc. and then realize that he would just need to kill himself to ensure that Voldemort never be re-spawn.
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