Looking back, the only reason this episode was actually good was BECAUSE it was a farewell episode - so you get all touched because you're seeing someone you like leave the show, and you mistake it for being a great ep
Fact - it wasn't a good ep. The scariness of the angels was handled very well, as was the farewell which had some good ideas, but the episode and the plot was hampered by too many plotholes that were never explained. Way too many to make it stand up as an episode when you look back on it. Steven Moffat is too emotionally invested in his fandom of the show for him to end up writing it well, I think. Some clever ideas mixed in with some ideas that really could be at home in a fanfic.
This [url=http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/doctor-who-series-7-matt-smith-jenna-ep11-specs.jpg]non-spoilery picture of Matt on set[/url] suddenly has a connection to The Angels Take Manhattan =(
Makes sense to feel that way; better to have a few isolated things that disappoint, than to have a whole arc disappoint; it's like with Mass Effect 3 and its poorly-written endings, the previous two games weren't as disappointing, whilst 3 did let down the "playerbase", though I don't think 3 necessarily ruined the entire franchise. No, it's EA that did that, as they always do; I honestly wonder why developers still go to EA and sign in blood. If it's for the money, and they're willing to hand everything over to that soulless necrotic giant, then I can't say I have much sympathy for them.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;37852905]wait a minute
[sp]amy was 21 at 11th hour. this season she says 10 years aged more or less, making her 30sh at the time of the teleport back to 38. she died at 87, so she lived past her birth, and almost to 7 year old eleventh hour[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]She was 33 this episode, sent back to 1938 she lived for another 54 years so I guess she died in around 1992. Although I thought you died on the day you got sent back, like the black guy in blink and the detective and rory (before paradox) in this episode[/sp].
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vfqAY.png[/IMG]
I haven't had time to watch the episode yet. Just answer me this; did Angel Bob make a return?
In actuality, not really; but the cheeky fucker was there in spirit.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;37849960][B]Spoilers ahead. Generally in this thread we openly discuss spoilers openly after airing.
[/B]
huge wall of text[/QUOTE]
agreed 100%
it reminds me of how lightsabers got cheapened in the star wars prequels because they were used so god fuck often
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blkx6axytKQ[/media]
[QUOTE=ironman17;37855903]In actuality, not really; but the cheeky fucker was there in spirit.[/QUOTE]
what the shit
jesus christ Moffat you don't even know how to foreshadow!
what is the point of you
By that I mean his trollingness was evident in when that Lone Survivor Angel was smiling, and when it warped Rory back to the 30s.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37855912]agreed 100%
it reminds me of how lightsabers got cheapened in the star wars prequels because they were used so god fuck often
[/QUOTE]
Lightsabers are made awesome in the prequels.
Holy shit that ending was sad as shit. ;_;
I just finished watching it. I can't handle the feels. My body is not ready.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_dBvckHWQ[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEEJV3Ecwps[/media]
Accurately describes how I feel right now.
Sad, but hopeful for the future.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;37854583]- Why couldn't he just go back and visit Amy and Rory in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's?[/QUOTE]
It really annoyed me that he couldn't do that.
So, thoughts on the episode?
Agree for it being great
Disagree for not liking it
It seemed like the Angels could move whenever they wanted this episode, and when they're meant to be able to move they just sit there.
Just re-watched it thinking maybe I was too harsh with my original opinion but tbh yeah, weakest episode of the season. Bit of an insult to Amy/Rory too having such a weak episode be their last.
[QUOTE=Mr. Agree;37857914]So, thoughts on the episode?
Agree for it being great
Disagree for not liking it[/QUOTE]
It was great. But there was a lot of things that annoyed me.
[QUOTE=Liquid-Fire;37857766]It really annoyed me that he couldn't do that.[/QUOTE]
Pay attention to what he says in the episode, the Doctor says at one point, just after the paradox,
"New York is too much of a temporal mess, can't come here again." Or something to that effect.
Fuck me, just watched it, damn it was sad
There are some pretty fucking gaping plot holes in this episode, Moffat needs to stop trying to be clever.
The Doctor can easily go and see Amy and Rory and take them on adventures and stuff, just because they have to die in New York doesn't mean they can't travel in the TARDIS and have adventures. The same with River seeing them.
Also, River being so pissed off with the Doctor wasting his regeneration energy makes me think that Moffat has retconned RTD's stupid 512 regenerations or whatever it was, and it is now back at the original 13. Which would mean that this would be the Doctor's last body, as he used a regeneration to heal the Dalek wound and to heal River's wrist.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;37858586]There are some pretty fucking gaping plot holes in this episode, Moffat needs to stop trying to be clever.
[b]The Doctor can easily go and see Amy and Rory and take them on adventures and stuff, just because they have to die in New York doesn't mean they can't travel in the TARDIS and have adventures. The same with River seeing them.[/b]
Also, River being so pissed off with the Doctor wasting his regeneration energy makes me think that Moffat has retconned RTD's stupid 512 regenerations or whatever it was, and it is now back at the original 13. Which would mean that this would be the Doctor's last body, as he used a regeneration to heal the Dalek wound and to heal River's wrist.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=lintz;37858244]Pay attention to what he says in the episode, the Doctor says at one point, just after the paradox,
"New York is too much of a temporal mess, can't come here again." Or something to that effect.[/QUOTE]
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
In fact, because none of you actually paid any attention to what the Doctor says, I took a screencap.
[img]http://puu.sh/1a72c[/img]
Then how does River send Amy her book to publish?
If she was gonna post it elsewhere in the US, surely she'd travel to see her mother.
EDIT: The TARDIS yeah, but a vortex manipulator? much more streamlined than a TARDIS. River even said so.
36.30 on iPlayer.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
Does the Doctor have a Vortex Manipulator?
No.
Can the Vortex Manipulator carry more than one person?
Not that we've seen.
[QUOTE=lintz;37858721]36.30 on iPlayer.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
Does the Doctor have a Vortex Manipulator?
No.
[B]Can the Vortex Manipulator carry more than one person?
Not that we've seen.[/B][/QUOTE]
Have you blocked Utopia/The Sound Of Drums from your memory?
If you believe River's manipulator is the same as Jack's, the same manipulator has taken 3 people before!
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;37858586]There are some pretty fucking gaping plot holes in this episode, Moffat needs to stop trying to be clever.
The Doctor can easily go and see Amy and Rory and take them on adventures and stuff, just because they have to die in New York doesn't mean they can't travel in the TARDIS and have adventures. The same with River seeing them.
Also, River being so pissed off with the Doctor wasting his regeneration energy makes me think that Moffat has retconned RTD's stupid 512 regenerations or whatever it was, and it is now back at the original 13. Which would mean that this would be the Doctor's last body, as he used a regeneration to heal the Dalek wound and to heal River's wrist.[/QUOTE]
So by that theory, why hasn't the Doctor gone to see Rose before she goes to the parallel world, or before Donna has her mind erased?
In order to have adventures through space and time, the Vortex Manipulator must A) be capable of taking more than one person and B) be a pleasant enough journey for multiple trips.
In the words of Ten: "The TARDIS is a sports car, he's got a space hopper!"
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
Okay, disregard that it cannot carry more than one person.
[QUOTE=lintz;37858721]36.30 on iPlayer.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
Does the Doctor have a Vortex Manipulator?
No.
Can the Vortex Manipulator carry more than one person?
Not that we've seen.[/QUOTE]
It did in Series 3 with the Doctor, Jack and Martha when the Master stole the TARDIS.
[QUOTE=Mr. Agree;37858760]So by that theory, why hasn't the Doctor gone to see Rose before she goes to the parallel world, or before Donna has her mind erased?[/QUOTE]
Because Rose and Donna have Doctor-Adventures in THEIR future, when Amy and Rory get angelled back, they have no more adventures. The Doctor isn't going back on his timeline.
River could manipulate Amy and Rory to the Doctor, he could then take them in the TARDIS.
As to why the Doctor hasn't visited Rose or Donna, that'd be going into his own personal timeline, which has been stated to be outlawed. Father's Day comes to mind.
Although that makes me wonder why the Doctor didn't cause a paradox when he touched his 5th incarnation.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
Anyway, if you want to bug Moffat about it, you know where his twitter is.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;37858586]Also, River being so pissed off with the Doctor wasting his regeneration energy makes me think that Moffat has retconned RTD's stupid 512 regenerations or whatever it was, and it is now back at the original 13. Which would mean that this would be the Doctor's last body, as he used a regeneration to heal the Dalek wound and to heal River's wrist.[/QUOTE]
I just think Moffat wanted 'edgy drama only Timelords understand' and we'll never see any consequences from it again.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=lintz;37858800]Anyway, if you want to bug Moffat about it, you know where his twitter is.[/QUOTE]
Deleted it because apparently "He's busy". Even though he originally got it to help hype Sherlock. The rumour is the real reason he deleted it is because fans kept pointing out plot holes he couldn't explain.
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=lintz;37858761]Okay, disregard that it cannot carry more than one person.[/QUOTE]
It can. The Doctor can modify it to do what he wants.
River had to go back in time to meet Amy to get her book published anyway. There is no reason she couldn't have taken Amy and Rory back for at least a goodbye. There is no reason they had to stay in New York till death anyway. Sure that one year was fucked but why not land the year after? It was a lazy way of getting rid of them.
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