I really hope we get some more story arcs in the future, and two parters. I know a lot of you will disagree with me, but IMO Season 6 was the best.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e83MZ.jpg[/IMG]
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2idde.jpg[/IMG]
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
In case you didn't know, Melody Malone is being published as an e-book!
[URL="http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/a-melody-malone-mystery-40015.htmk"]http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/a-melody-malone-mystery-40015.htm[/URL]
At the risk of looking like a douchebag, something I really would like to avoid, I've labelled my feelings of the last episode appropriately. Can't agree with the facts; they explain why it wasn't sloppy writing (in that area). Feel free to disagree with my speculation and opinions. Sorry if I sound like an idiot!
[/Opinion:] Moffat likes to make large episodes and rush them - a really good example is The Wedding Of River Song. You can criticise Let's Kill Hitler's sensationalistic title, The Wedding of River Song's slap-dash sloppy plot or The Silence plot arc, and I would agree with you. But The Angels Take Manhattan was far better than any of those, in my opinion. [/Opinion]
[Speculation:] It was a farewell episode for Amy and Rory, and I read that someone here thinks that it was good only because it was a farewell episode. I really disagree, it was a great episode and it ended with them leaving; it's all part of the episode! The themes, dialogue and all those flickering lights were foreshadowing to them leaving, and then they leave in the last two minutes is not a bad thing. That's called "a different way to how you would write it" and it involves using the dramatic tension to build up the episode which climaxes with them leaving, which is a valid part of every episode since every episode they're trying to save someone or thing while still not wanting to be left behind or die. The risks that they take in every episode finally came back, and they were left behind. [/Speculation]
[Contextual IN THE EPISODE facts:] Why were they left behind? Sure, the Doctor could use the Vortex Manipulator to visit them, or park the TARDIS and take a bus. However, the book was being written as they went along but the afterword was already there. He couldn't change that. But [I]mostly[/I], as he said before, he doesn't like endings. That's the number one reason. While he could keep running to them before they flare and fade from him, he realised that he couldn't keep running and keep them running, and it was time to let them live their lives of which the ending was literally written in stone. And finally, character development. They all realised that it was what they wanted, and the Doctor had to let them have it. She was no longer Amelia Pond: Amy was a Williams. That's why he couldn't go back; because he wouldn't. [/Contextual IN THE EPISODE facts]
[Opinion:] While Moffat writes some great episodes, he definitely writes some less-than-fantastic (to be polite) ones. Manhattan was definitely a good'un with dramatic tension, lots of previous foreshadowing, a plot that was simple enough as a concept but hard to defeat (we're stuck in an Angel time-loop, how do we get out?) and character development to make it a really enjoyable watch. [/Opinion]
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
Though I definitely, definitely wish Rory had more than "Hey Amy, look at this!"
But that's why it's so tragically sad.
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;37858586]
The Doctor can easily go and see Amy and Rory and take them on adventures and stuff, just because they have to die in New York doesn't mean they can't travel in the TARDIS and have adventures. The same with River seeing them. [/Quote]
It was explained in the episode. Character development and feelings and such. It wasn't just a "woops, sorry". It's been building up since the first episode with them, and it was mentioned in The Power Of Three. They had been wanting to leave for a while, and the Doctor finally had to say goodbye and let them live.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;37858586] Also, River being so pissed off with the Doctor wasting his regeneration energy makes me think that Moffat has retconned RTD's stupid 512 regenerations or whatever it was, and it is now back at the original 13. Which would mean that this would be the Doctor's last body, as he used a regeneration to heal the Dalek wound and to heal River's wrist.[/QUOTE]
The 512 regenerations was stated by RTD as the Doctor joking. Don't be so stingy.
[QUOTE=Aries;37863938]But that's why it's so tragically sad.[/QUOTE]
I agree with everything else you right (hence the small tick underneath your post), but I disagree that Rory's departure was sad, it was a shame from the viewer's perspective that he didn't get a "last line" but from the character's perspective, he lived to an old age with the woman he loved, so it's a very happy ending.
The only person I feel bad for at the end of this episode is Brian, and I guess a bit for Amy because she had to make a hard choice.
[QUOTE=jaykray;37864014]I agree with everything else you right (hence the small tick underneath your post), but I disagree that Rory's departure was sad, it was a shame from the viewer's perspective that he didn't get a "last line" but from the character's perspective, he lived to an old age with the woman he loved, so it's a very happy ending.
The only person I feel bad for at the end of this episode is Brian, and I guess a bit for Amy because she had to make a hard choice.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's where it's just down to complete opinion. For me it was [I]immensely[/I] emotional. My bottom lip gave this involuntary quiver. I knew they would be leaving, I assumed dying, and then they survived! So since they didn't die I thought they could just live at home and see Brian and be happy. But all of a sudden it happened, and suddenly Amy must make this choice and the Doctor is helpless, learning from his mistake of keeping the truth from her after Rory was swallowed by the time-crack. And then she chose him, and a tear fell because it had mostly been Rory making the extremely large sacrifices and here she is honouring her wedding vows - in sickness and in health, until only death apart.
But I'm just a complete romantic, and it was a really good love story.
[QUOTE=jaykray;37863589][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e83MZ.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I just noticed, at the bottom it says "By Sarah Jane Smith"
So fucking silly. "Oh, New York is too much of a temporal mess I can never see them again"
oh wait the 1930s 40s and 50s had CARS in it why don't they just drive to another city and get picked up wow I bet none of them ever thought of that
[QUOTE=killerteacup;37864750]So fucking silly. "Oh, New York is too much of a temporal mess I can never see them again"
oh wait the 1930s 40s and 50s had CARS in it why don't they just drive to another city and get picked up wow I bet none of them ever thought of that[/QUOTE]
I see it as the doctor realising that the ponds time was finished with him. Despite outright stating that he hated endings (repeatedly...it was a big thing this episode) he forced himself to read the afterword, in which Amy told him how she and Rory lived happily ever after without him. If he hadn't read it, perhaps he could go back and see them using the method you said, but she didn't mention meeting him so he couldn't.
[QUOTE=Aries;37864075]Yeah, that's where it's just down to complete opinion. For me it was [I]immensely[/I] emotional. My bottom lip gave this involuntary quiver. I knew they would be leaving, I assumed dying, and then they survived! So since they didn't die I thought they could just live at home and see Brian and be happy. But all of a sudden it happened, and suddenly Amy must make this choice and the Doctor is helpless, learning from his mistake of keeping the truth from her after Rory was swallowed by the time-crack. And then she chose him, and a tear fell because it had mostly been Rory making the extremely large sacrifices and here she is honouring her wedding vows - in sickness and in health, until only death apart.
But I'm just a complete romantic, and it was a really good love story.[/QUOTE]
May I ask what mistake re. timecrack?
[QUOTE=killerteacup;37864750]So fucking silly. "Oh, New York is too much of a temporal mess I can never see them again"
oh wait the 1930s 40s and 50s had CARS in it why don't they just drive to another city and get picked up wow I bet none of them ever thought of that[/QUOTE]
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb4vzvUAsu1qkg04co1_500.png[/img]
Because he read that it would be his last farewell. He couldn't change it afterwards.
What happened to the time eaters from that one episode where rose tried to save her father.
Why the fuck didn't they show up when the paradox set in.
[QUOTE=killerteacup;37864750]So fucking silly. "Oh, New York is too much of a temporal mess I can never see them again"
oh wait the 1930s 40s and 50s had CARS in it why don't they just drive to another city and get picked up wow I bet none of them ever thought of that[/QUOTE]
My post on the previous page.
[QUOTE=RagerTrader;37865052]What happened to the time eaters from that one episode where rose tried to save her father.
Why the fuck didn't they show up when the paradox set in.[/QUOTE]
Universe got changed somehow, it's the same reason the time vortex looks different between series 4 and 5.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;37865045][img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb4vzvUAsu1qkg04co1_500.png[/img]
Because he read that it would be his last farewell. He couldn't change it afterwards.[/QUOTE]
But if it wasn't titled Amelia's Last Farewell, would the Doctor have flipped out and taken the various actions he did during the episode like having Rory run away on foot to escape the Angels, eventually leading them to the paradox they created and Rory being sent back in time where he suddenly can't be reached again?
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
[sp]I'm saying river masterminded everything[/sp]
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=RagerTrader;37865052]What happened to the time eaters from that one episode where rose tried to save her father.
Why the fuck didn't they show up when the paradox set in.[/QUOTE]
It's best to consider the reapers as a nice idea but non-canon.
Oh man that episode, The feelings hit hard. [sp]Not really looking forward to the new companion but maybe she won't be like her sister/aunt/daughter/mother/clone whatever it was in asylum of the daleks[/sp]
[B]Apple's iOS6 3D Maps records the Statue of Liberty missing from it's post, presumably stalking time-travellers[/B]
[img]http://cultofmac.cultofmaccom.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ios6-maps-04.jpg[/img]
I quite like this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xZ5fR.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=jaykray;37866351]I quite like this
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xZ5fR.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That actually makes quite a bit of sense
river does like her predestination paradoxes
[editline]30th September 2012[/editline]
River's seen them when they saw the doctor die
it wouldn't be far of a stretch for her to know how he would feel if he saw them die
I love how we're trying to come up with explanations that aren't true but just might make the episode a bit better
[QUOTE=killerteacup;37866804]I love how we're trying to come up with explanations that aren't true but just might make the episode a bit better[/QUOTE]
[I]These things were explained in the episode[/I]
[QUOTE=jaykray;37863589][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e83MZ.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I wish this was in the episode some how. Holy shit. I was wondering if Amy was to meet her daughter in the 60's and raise her. Love the references to all the episodes. The Pandoras box book Amy had. Written by Sarah Jane! Isn't that a week before Doctor Who came back too?
Amazing.
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
To be honest we can say "Oh New York is a temporal mess" and "Once you read time it can't be re-written" but this is all bull. It's a bunch of rules he made up for the episode that we've never had before and will never see again. Caan said in the future one will still die, and The Doctor stopped that.
It had some great emotion but the episode was hastily written with reasons for things being pulled out of nowhere. Like above. Like the paradox Amy and Rory caused. Doctor can now heal people at will.
[editline]1st October 2012[/editline]
Actually seen comments from people on the net saying they're not going to watch now Amy and Rory left. One comment goes on to say she loves Matt Smith as much as Tom Baker but is too sad to see the team break up.
Oh new fans.
The only difference being that Caan came first and this is second. If this was first, you'd say that it makes much more sense since it's already written down in the Afterword and he read the titles so he couldn't go against it. But nope, your example of Caan came first in the show and that's your opinion and therefore everyone else is wrong and you are right and that means they're writing Doctor Who wrong!
He absorbed the time vortex by kissing Rose and put it back in the TARDIS at one point. Then he heals his entire body and makes a new face manipulating artron energy and other such things to himself. I'm fairly sure he could heal someone else. But River healed the Doctor by giving up her regenerations but now the Doctor is doing it and that is wrong as well!
You're sounding awfully a lot like Alex Day in here, mate.
"Once you read it it can't be re-written"
Waters of Mars.
End of story
[QUOTE=Aries;37868337]The only difference being that Caan came first and this is second. If this was first, you'd say that it makes much more sense since it's already written down in the Afterword and he read the titles so he couldn't go against it. But nope, your example of Caan came first in the show and [B]that's your opinion and therefore everyone else is wrong and you are right and that means they're writing Doctor Who wrong!
[/B]
He absorbed the time vortex by kissing Rose and put it back in the TARDIS at one point. Then he heals his entire body and makes a new face manipulating artron energy and other such things to himself. I'm fairly sure he could heal someone else. But River healed the Doctor by giving up her regenerations but now the Doctor is doing it and that is wrong as well!
You're sounding awfully a lot like Alex Day in here, mate.[/QUOTE]
You surely can see it's a fucking huge plot hole? There's NO reason for River not to bring them back with a vortex manipulator.
Moffat was wrong, that happens man. he's not god.
all this timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff gets pretty confusing
[QUOTE=Demonkahh;37868647]"Once you read it it can't be re-written"
Waters of Mars.
End of story[/QUOTE]
To be fair, changing the timeline didn't exactly end perfectly there.
But it happens. He changes time. The only thing that stops it is that woman decides they don't deserve to be alive and kills herself.
[QUOTE=Dan2593;37870720]But it happens. He changes time. The only thing that stops it is that woman decides they don't deserve to be alive and kills herself.[/QUOTE]
Aries point earlier covers this
I wonder how RTD would have written the episode
[QUOTE=Ithon;37870909]I wonder how RTD would have written the episode[/QUOTE]
The tardis would come to the rescue, the Doctor would get Amy and Rory out of the hotel and drop them safely in the 1960s and then cry as he walked to his tardis leaving them behind as they stand dumbfounded wondering why he left them.
Or he would have saved Rory from the last angel, dropped them off in 2012, then left saying he couldn't risk their lives anymore, then walk off sad.
Either or.
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