Woman suffering from epilepsy held against her will by hospital in rural Kentucky. - General

[QUOTE=Dr. Deeps;31836430]She had a fucking seizure. All they had to do was look in her fucking medical records you imbecile. You were grasping for more straws in this post than most Republicans.[/QUOTE] So? A lot of people have a medical history of having seizures . Are you saying just because someone has a medical history of seizures that, self inflicted wounds that point to a possible attempt of suicide should be ignored? Previous medical conditions do not mask what the doctor is seeing. And that is a self inflicted knife wounds to the wrist/arm due to a "seizure". [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Binladen34;31836525]I agree that hospitals should hold people over, if they have sound reasoning to do so, however, this hospital did not. [/QUOTE] The hospital had sound enough reason. The girl could easily of been lying through her teeth. It's not that hard. And it is not uncommon at all. Do you know how many people try to scam the ER for drugs? Try to get treatment for an injury and lie about it because they were doing something illegal while their injury occurred? Nor is it uncommon for people to lie about suicidal attempts. Yes, yes I know the girl isn't actually suicidal, it is apparent now. But the hospital has a legal obligation to not discharge anyone who is suicidal without some form of treatment, and the only way for them to be able to label her as suicidal or not suicidal is a 72 hour hold. Shits justified, you girls are just so busy getting your emotions all tied up to see the cold facts. The girl has [B]self inflicting knife wounds [/B]similar to a failed suicide attempt, the story about how that happened goes out the window when it comes to deciding if she is suicidal or not because anyone can make up a story about how it happened, and a SMART person would come with a story that would make sense, IE blaming it on a medical condition that is on your record.

I worked security at a hospital before. This happens all the time, ive seen some shit.

[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;31836713]I worked security at a hospital before. This happens all the time[/QUOTE] So would you say the 72 hour hold is justified in this situation?

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836740]So would you say the 72 hour hold is justified in this situation?[/QUOTE] No not at all. While working there, I saw people (Keep in mind I'm talking about a psych ward.) be there for months at a time with no outdoor privileges

[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;31836777]No not at all. [B]While working there, I saw people (Keep in mind I'm talking about a psych ward.) be there for months at a time with no outdoor privileges[/B][/QUOTE] She's not getting held for months and months. She's getting held for a 72 observation hold because she has self inflicted wounds by a knife. The possibility of her lying that a seizure caused it just has to exist for them to give a 72 hour hold. Law's the law, and the physician had enough reasons to institute it

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836838]She's not getting held for months and months. She's getting held for a 72 observation hold because she has self inflicted wounds by a knife. The possibility of her lying that a seizure caused it just has to exist for them to give a 72 hour hold. Law's the law, and the physician had enough reasons to institute it[/QUOTE] I know, but the doctors should know she has epilepsy. Also there are some cases that this could be necessary. I also agree with you, law is the law. She should have just stayed it makes things easier for everybody.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836838]She's not getting held for months and months. She's getting held for a 72 observation hold because she has self inflicted wounds by a knife. The possibility of her lying that a seizure caused it just has to exist for them to give a 72 hour hold. Law's the law, and the physician had enough reasons to institute it[/QUOTE] that would be okay if hospitals actually knew the difference between a mistake or an event that was out of the person's control and an actual suicide attempt not to mention they get more money when they stay there longer

[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;31836881]I know, but the doctors should know she has epilepsy. Also there are some cases that this could be necessary. I also agree with you, law is the law. She should have just stayed it makes things easier of everybody.[/QUOTE] Only your personal Physician has your medical records most the time. Most ERs don't have your medical records unless you've had your personal physician fax them over, or you have had a history with the ER, then they should have a file on you.. [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=KingKombat;31836927]that would be okay if hospitals actually knew the difference between a mistake or an event that was out of the person's control and an actual suicide attempt [/QUOTE] There's no way to tell the different in retrospect. It's a better safe to be sorry situation. Everyone bitching and moaning about it, trying to break her out of the hospital is extremely counter-productive as Gprimeisback said. I will agree though, that the guard was overly violent and physical to a degree.

If he wants to take her home he should have that fucking right, regardless of what is healthier for the patient.

when they wouldn't unlock the door and he ripped the dead bolt lock door open was epic.

I can completely understand when the Hospital has reason to hold someone for suicidal attempts. But, in this case someone, a legal guardian came to retrieve them and explained the situation. Whether or not she was actually suicidal doesn't matter. Different situation when someone goes in, signs of suicide attempt and no one comes to retrieve them.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836526]So? A lot of people have a medical history of having seizures . Are you saying just because someone has a medical history of seizures that, self inflicted wounds that point to a possible attempt of suicide should be ignored? Previous medical conditions do not mask what the doctor is seeing. And that is a self inflicted knife wounds to the wrist/arm due to a "seizure". [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] The hospital had sound enough reason. The girl could easily of been lying through her teeth. It's not that hard. And it is not uncommon at all. Do you know how many people try to scam the ER for drugs? Try to get treatment for an injury and lie about it because they were doing something illegal while their injury occurred? Nor is it uncommon for people to lie about suicidal attempts. Yes, yes I know the girl isn't actually suicidal, it is apparent now. But the hospital has a legal obligation to not discharge anyone who is suicidal without some form of treatment, and the only way for them to be able to label her as suicidal or not suicidal is a 72 hour hold. Shits justified, you girls are just so busy getting your emotions all tied up to see the cold facts. The girl has [B]self inflicting knife wounds [/B]similar to a failed suicide attempt, the story about how that happened goes out the window when it comes to deciding if she is suicidal or not because anyone can make up a story about how it happened, and a SMART person would come with a story that would make sense, IE blaming it on a medical condition that is on your record.[/QUOTE] Why the fuck even hold someone for being suicidal, that's their problem, not the hospital's. It's your own body and you can decide what you want to do with it. Even if she was, like the guy said, let them take care of that themselves. Fucking asshole security guards and all those people who just stood there. Makes me so angry that if i was him i beat the living shit out of everyone there who weren't helping her.

A hospital kidnaps a sherrif's wife and he has to rescue her from a man with an eyepatch, a midget, Ghetto McGangster, two seniors and the guy from Office Space. Could be a decent comedy.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]The 72 hour hold is to conduct psychological tests, and observe behavior. [/QUOTE] So first they put someone under 3 days arrest and [B]then [/B]check if there is a reason for it? And nobody can take it back, since the doctor gave the order to kidnap her and went home. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]They held her because she had knife cuts on her own arm that she inflicted because she had a "seizure". Believe it or not, but A LOT of people lie about how they actually end up having self inflicted knife wounds on the arm.[/QUOTE] Wow no shit, people who attempted suicide will lie about it. But here you can get her medical records and check that it was really a seizure, and you have her entire family vouching for her. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]If i was the physician, i would of put a 72 hour hold on her too A lot of people end up trying to kill themselves by cutting their arms/wrists, and realize that that shit is not working as fast as they thought, they go to the ER to get fixed up, and lie about how they have self inflicted knife wounds. [/QUOTE] You totally wouldn't waste people's days of life, kidnapping them to see if you were right. I'm fine with holding someone under observation if he slit his wrists, but come on. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]Patients lying in the ER is not uncommon, especially when someones suicidal. Now maybe this girls story is true, maybe she did cut herself while she had a seizure, but there is no way for the doctor to determine if she's suicidal or not without the 72 hour hold. [/QUOTE] Yeah sure, kidnap people for 3 days to check whether you were right or not and later charge them for holding them against their will. Now this wouldn't be as bad if there would always be a person who can take the arrest order back. And certainly you should be refunded for being kidnapped for 3 days if they find out that you're not suicidal. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]What's in your best interest may not be comfortable, or enjoyable.[/QUOTE] That's only true if the patient is actually suicidal. It's [B]hardly [/B]in my best interest to be kidnapped for 3 days cause I accidentally slashed myself with a knife. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]I have to agree though, that the security guard was being a prick, and overly aggressive. Should of just had the cops come, the guy said he was happily willingly to wait and talk to the cops.[/QUOTE]This is not happening. Most of these guys are programmed like most of the cops. LAW IS THE LAW HURRR, abandon logic and reason! Force the law. [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Xehanort;31839726]Why the fuck even hold someone for being suicidal, that's their problem, not the hospital's. It's your own body and you can decide what you want to do with it. [/QUOTE] While I'm all for personal freedoms and deciding yourself whether you want to use the seatbelt or not and things like that, I disagree that being suicidal is your own problem. When in a state like that, you're hardly yourself, and certainly can't take responsibility for your own actions.

[QUOTE=BigOwl;31838638]If he wants to take her home he should have that fucking right, regardless of what is healthier for the patient.[/QUOTE] wrong every action must be taken within the patients interest they are the ones that need help the most after all.

There was a history of suicidal tendencies. [quote]“I finally got a straight story from her mom and Grandma that she has tried to commit suicide three times before, and I was tricked by her old man and her into going to the hospital for her. I still feel that if family comes to the hospital for a family member, the hospital has to show their authority to hold them. I will issue an apology to St. Elizabeth.”[/quote] [url]http://gcvideonews.com/?p=871[/url] So yeah, they were completely within their rights to detain her. [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31836059]I have to side with the hospital. [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] The 72 hour hold is to conduct psychological tests, and observe behavior. They held her because she had knife cuts on her own arm that she inflicted because she had a "seizure". Believe it or not, but A LOT of people lie about how they actually end up having self inflicted knife wounds on the arm. If i was the physician, i would of put a 72 hour hold on her too A lot of people end up trying to kill themselves by cutting their arms/wrists, and realize that that shit is not working as fast as they thought, they go to the ER to get fixed up, and lie about how they have self inflicted knife wounds. Patients lying in the ER is not uncommon, especially when someones suicidal. Now maybe this girls story is true, maybe she did cut herself while she had a seizure, but there is no way for the doctor to determine if she's suicidal or not without the 72 hour hold. What's in your best interest may not be comfortable, or enjoyable. I have to agree though, that the security guard was being a prick, and overly aggressive. Should of just had the cops come, the guy said he was happily willingly to wait and talk to the cops.[/QUOTE] Also I hope everyone who rated this guy dumb now feels dumb themselves, considering he was completely right.

The hospital is certainly in the right on this, even if it just appeared to be a seizure. You also have to consider that a person who had a seizure recently isn't going to be up to their typical cognitive ability and that you really shouldn't listen to them. For example, I had a bad string of seizures all within half an hour and I refused to go the hospital despite not at all recovering. I certainly should have gone, but at the time I was not at all rational and the people with me should have overridden what I was saying. In that state of mind, I would certainly be willing to say just about anything to get out of going to the hospital.

[QUOTE=Pepin;31843686]The hospital is certainly in the right on this, even if it just appeared to be a seizure. You also have to consider that a person who had a seizure recently isn't going to be up to their typical cognitive ability and that you really shouldn't listen to them. For example, I had a bad string of seizures all within half an hour and I refused to go the hospital despite not at all recovering. I certainly should have gone, but at the time I was not at all rational and the people with me should have overridden what I was saying. In that state of mind, I would certainly be willing to say just about anything to get out of going to the hospital.[/QUOTE] How is the hospital in the right on this. Holding someone for 72 hours because you think they are a danger to themselves only works if it's done properly, which it wasn't. They should have had a doctor look at her and examine her injuries, not some crotchety receptionist who doesn't even work in the ER. I'm pretty sure accidentally cutting yourself while having a seizure leaves a much different wound than a deliberate self-inflicted one. The doctor not being there is a joke anyway, there's not one doctor in the entire hospital. Also, I like how she had to call her husband, not the hospital.

[QUOTE=Wilford Brimley;31844175] Holding someone for 72 hours because you think they are a danger to themselves only works if it's done properly, which it wasn't. They should have had a doctor look at her and examine her injuries, not some crotchety receptionist who doesn't even work in the ER. I'm pretty sure accidentally cutting yourself while having a seizure leaves a much different wound than a deliberate self-inflicted one. The doctor not being there is a joke anyway, there's not one doctor in the entire hospital. Also, I like how she had to call her husband, not the hospital.[/QUOTE] If you read the update her family confirms she's tried to kill herself three times before. Not only that, but this part: [quote]“I finally got a straight story from her mom and Grandma that she has tried to commit suicide three times before, and I was tricked by her old man and her into going to the hospital for her.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;31844222]If you read the update her family confirms she's tried to kill herself three times before. Not only that, but this part:[/QUOTE] Oh they were right with their assumption on this one. This deems the entire problem nonexistent.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;31844391]Oh they were right with their assumption on this one. This deems the entire problem nonexistent.[/QUOTE] Do we know if she has a medical record of showing up to the hospital with suicide attempts? Since she's tried 3 times there'd have to be some sort of history. But I seriously don't understand why people are railing the hospital on this one, just because someone does an amateur video of being denied something doesn't mean it's so black and white.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;31844391]Oh they were right with their assumption on this one. This deems the entire problem nonexistent.[/QUOTE] You made yourself out to be a huge ass with your post earlier. Congrats dumb-ass for looking at this situation one sided. Bitch had a history, there was indications that shown that she could of been suicidal to begin with. [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;31844489]Do we know if she has a medical record of showing up to the hospital with suicide attempts? Since she's tried 3 times there'd have to be some sort of history. But I seriously don't understand why people are railing the hospital on this one, just because someone does an amateur video of being denied something doesn't mean it's so black and white.[/QUOTE] It's facepunch, the user base doesn't have the capacity, or won't even attempt to see the situation from another perspective, which in this case they should of looked at it from the ER physican perspective, not some bald headed neckbeard who tries to break her out of the hospital because he was tricked into believing she was "kidnapped" without reason. A++ thread facepunch, will definitely read again, when I want to understand the userbases mono-perspective tendencies you girls and boys have.

ummm the doctor should have no authority to hold someone in a hospital against their will unless they are a danger to other people, NOT THEMSELVES. and a legal guardian's authority should be greater than a doctor's.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;31847116]ummm the doctor should have no authority to hold someone in a hospital against their will unless they are a danger to other people, NOT THEMSELVES. and a legal guardian's authority should be greater than a doctor's.[/QUOTE] If X then Y. If you're a danger to yourself, then you are definitely a danger to the people around you. Legal guardians are not a divine authority when it comes to endangerment of the patient or the people around them. In this case, a possible suicide attempt is consider an endangerment to the patient and possibly the people around them, and the only way to know if they are dangerous to themselves/others, and to determine if she's suicidal or not is to hold her. Her having a record of suicide attempts serves as a catalyst in the decision and reason in putting her on a 72 hour hold. Cry some more dude, that's how the medical system works, and it's there to protect you from yourself and others at your worst of hours. If the 72 hour hold wasn't around, a lot of people who are dangerous to themselves and others be getting discharged a lot more often without treatment, which can lead them to killing themselves or hurting others around them, WHICH is worse then you getting some sand in your vagina over a 72 hour hold. What's better? A highly potential situation were someone is dangerous to themselves/others? Or them getting butt-hurt cause they had to wait in the hospital. I'd rather see people getting pissed in Psych wards, and ER's instead of the alternative of them doing something rash in the street or at their homes.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31847176]If X then Y. If you're a danger to yourself, then you are definitely a danger to the people around you.[/quote] no your not unless you have proof for that statement [quote]Legal guardians are not a divine authority when it comes to endangerment of the patient or the people around them.[/QUOTE] they are divine authority when it comes to the dependent.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;31847313]no your not unless you have proof for that statement they are divine authority when it comes to the dependent.[/QUOTE] There are a lot of cases were doctors will have a legal judge over-rule a guardians decision because it puts the patient at risk. IE a religious mother refusing that her son receives a blood transfusion, without it her son will surely die. So using your logic, the doctors have to sit back and watch the kid die because his mom (legal guardian) is so butt-hurt about a medical treatment. that she is willing to endanger him necessarily. There are cases were doctors will over-rule the legal guardians decision because it is unnecessarily endangering them. The same thing can be applied for someone who is suicidal, and a danger to people around them. Letting her leave the hospital is more dangerous than her staying and pouting about for 3 days.

[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;31844489]Do we know if she has a medical record of showing up to the hospital with suicide attempts? Since she's tried 3 times there'd have to be some sort of history. [/QUOTE] If they've held her because of the record of suicide attempts then I don't have anything against that because that would be justified. [QUOTE=ScoutKing;31847017]You made yourself out to be a huge ass with your post earlier. Congrats dumb-ass for looking at this situation one sided. Bitch had a history, there was indications that shown that she could of been suicidal to begin with. [/QUOTE] Nice edit. Everything I've said still holds, even if they were right. It's really retarded btw, "doesn't matter they grasp straws here, they were right in this particular one, means everything is as it should be."

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;31848074]If they've held her because of the record of suicide attempts then I don't have anything against that because that would be justified. Nice edit. Everything I've said still holds, even if they were right. It's really retarded btw, "doesn't matter they grasp straws here, they were right in this particular one, means everything is as it should be."[/QUOTE] well atleast we can agree on the fact that the hold is justified, long as you're not like the people in this thread who are being black and white about the situation saying the hospital is evil and out of line to be able to possess that kind of power then I really have nothing to contest with you.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;31847440]There are a lot of cases were doctors will have a legal judge over-rule a guardians decision because it puts the patient at risk. IE a religious mother refusing that her son receives a blood transfusion, without it her son will surely die. So using your logic, the doctors have to sit back and watch the kid die because his mom (legal guardian) is so butt-hurt about a medical treatment. that she is willing to endanger him necessarily. There are cases were doctors will over-rule the legal guardians decision because it is unnecessarily endangering them. The same thing can be applied for someone who is suicidal, and a danger to people around them. Letting her leave the hospital is more dangerous than her staying and pouting about for 3 days.[/QUOTE] if she is a danger to others then the doctor has a responsibility to keep her in. if her parents arent allowing her to get a life saving procedure because of a disease or accident she had no control over that is abusive. if it is self inflicted, and she does not wish to remain, and the guardian does not wish her to remain, then it is wrong to hold her.

i have never been more enraged [editline]20th August 2011[/editline] sure its fine keep her from hurting herself by inflicting massive physical and mental damage on not only her but her children. I like how i have a better understanding of psychology than the people working here. not to mention the self important bitch telling him to calm down when they are essentially unconstitutionally holding her against her will.