Sounds like being a farmer in an anarchist society would suck. You don't own the land, so you don't own the farm, so you don't own the crops. That makes the crops public property, doesn't it? So anyone can take, why would they want to buy any? But if that happens, why farm them in the first place? Am I missing something here?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;41292160]Sounds like being a farmer in an anarchist society would suck. You don't own the land, so you don't own the farm, so you don't own the crops. That makes the crops public property, doesn't it? So anyone can take, why would they want to buy any? But if that happens, why farm them in the first place? Am I missing something here?[/QUOTE]
I'm taking a wild guess, but I think green anarchism would let the farmers own their land as to allow them to become experts of their land. Who knows more about farming than a farmer?
State involvement can be ugly for farmers, thus the environment and thus the rest of society. All eyes on you, corn industry!
it's hilarious how people still think anarchism = violence
[QUOTE=Slacker996;41292283]it's hilarious how people still think anarchism = violence[/QUOTE]
It doesn't help that Anarchist[or people who claim to be] protesters like destroying stuff.
The whole idea of of not having a government to maintain order also gives the idea of bandits wandering the countryside stealing from landless farmers.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41292321]It doesn't help that Anarchist[or people who claim to be] protesters like destroying stuff.
The whole idea of of not having a government to maintain order also gives the idea of bandits wandering the countryside stealing from landless farmers.[/QUOTE]
exactumundo
[QUOTE=Slacker996;41292335]exactumundo[/QUOTE]
Speaking of criticisms and misconceptions of anarchy.
[video=youtube;fibDNwF8bjs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibDNwF8bjs[/video]
Interest in anarchism and faschism has to be the most juvenile pastime.
[QUOTE=Falchion;41292458]Interest in anarchism and faschism has to be the most juvenile pastime.[/QUOTE]
Did you mean Fascism, because I've never met anyone who thought that type of thing was cool (excluding one person whos great grandfather was in the SS, but they've since abandoned those ideals).
Even "Anarchism" as of late seems to be not as popular as it was, it's all about Libertarianism now.
I'm a left Libertarian, Aka, i believe in government being more or less dissolved, except Health, Police and Social security services. Unlike Anarchists, i think Humans are inherently assholes. Therefore i believe without the government, we would literally collapse into anarchy. (See what i did there?)
[editline]3rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41290419]The state isn't necessarily evil. It just works incredibly poorly and gets corrupted when it becomes too large. A decentralized system is better so that the state can better represent its citizens and address their needs.
[/QUOTE]
Pretty much what Ranger said.
The state is not inherently evil. But neither are people.
Bioshock was going to be brought up sooner or later in this thread, so i might as well be the one to do it.
Anarchism is a prominent feature in the game, as of course Rapture is the Capitalist Utopian society depicted in the game. The game serves to highlight many of the many problems Anarchism. Some of these include; The issue of little sisters; Non-regulated ADAM use; Human testing; class warfare (Depicted in levels such as Paupers Drop and Atlas's war on Ryan); and desperate poverty experienced by even talented and hardworking members of society (Grace Holloway). I am aware of the fictitious nature of the argument, but they do raise valid concerns. Breakdown of moral fiber, class warfare, exploitation of the poor and the failure of the very system it was based on. I.e "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of h is brow?"
What stops people in an anarchous society banding up and seizing land. I mean you could end up with a group of people just taking over somewhere and making it an enforced dictatorship.
[QUOTE=eurocracy;41293380]What stops people in an anarchous society banding up and seizing land. I mean you could end up with a group of people just taking over somewhere and making it an enforced dictatorship.[/QUOTE]
Workers/Communities militia
Also, IMO in anarchy we should destroy the state and make small communes (like states) and by that it would be easier to get direct democracy and also mutual aid to everyone.
Btw anyone who thinks anarchism is shit by edgy teenagers knows nothing - Kropotkin, Bakunin, Goldman, Tucker, Proudhon.
[QUOTE=kron555;41293628]Workers/Communities militia[/QUOTE]
in that case you've just formed an impromptu state
[QUOTE=kron555;41293628]Workers/Communities militia[/QUOTE]
But if the militia has all that power, isn't there a chance that it itself will seize power? At which point, you just recreated 'the state' (in a much less favorable way than it was).
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41293640]in that case you've just formed an impromptu state[/QUOTE]
Anarchism works differently in philosophy and in real life, mainly by human nature and consequences of revolution.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;41293652]But if the militia has all that power, isn't there a chance that it itself will seize power? At which point, you just recreated 'the state' (in a much less favorable way than it was).[/QUOTE]
Everyone can join/make his own militia/defense so everyone has the same amount of power and choices, it only depends on the individual what he will do. Also I don't mean like regular Police but communities defense - "Today me, Mark and Judit will check around the factory". It's more like "we need to protect our shit and someone has to do it" thinking. It's all about mutual aid and reaching a compromise.
I actually use anarchism as a basis for my political philosophy but not a pragmatic ideology I'm going to try and promote for society (This one, at least). I'd say at heart I'm an anarchist, but any kind of functioning anarchist society really can't take form at the moment we're at in history so I can't really speak to the practical aspect of it. Just by my own personal examination of society I feel like there really isn't any other honest position for me to hold - I'm very much of the mind that the current "system" (however one can put it without sounding faux-edgy) is inherently kind of toxic.
What stops people from grouping together to form their own 'political' factions that establish authority through force in an anarchistic society?
Is an anarchistic society even sustainable in the first place?
[QUOTE=The Aussie;41293028]I'm a left Libertarian, Aka, i believe in government being more or less dissolved, except Health, Police and Social security services. Unlike Anarchists, i think Humans are inherently assholes. Therefore i believe without the government, we would literally collapse into anarchy. (See what i did there?)
[editline]3rd July 2013[/editline]
Pretty much what Ranger said.[/QUOTE]
Healthcare and social security are not libertarian ideals.
[QUOTE=RobbL;41298126]What stops people from grouping together to form their own 'political' factions that establish authority through force in an anarchistic society?
Is an anarchistic society even sustainable in the first place?[/QUOTE]
The main problem with anarchist society is it relies on people all being anarchists.
In reality you'd end up with non anarchists seizing land and forming a state.
[QUOTE=RobbL;41298126]What stops people from grouping together to form their own 'political' factions that establish authority through force in an anarchistic society?
Is an anarchistic society even sustainable in the first place?[/QUOTE]
That's another one of those areas where anarchism is fundamentally flawed.
[QUOTE=butre;41298602]That's another one of those areas where anarchism is fundamentally flawed.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOdm-vXv2rU[/url]
18:31
[QUOTE=The Aussie;41293275]Bioshock was going to be brought up sooner or later in this thread, so i might as well be the one to do it.
Anarchism is a prominent feature in the game, as of course Rapture is the Capitalist Utopian society depicted in the game. The game serves to highlight many of the many problems Anarchism. Some of these include; The issue of little sisters; Non-regulated ADAM use; Human testing; class warfare (Depicted in levels such as Paupers Drop and Atlas's war on Ryan); and desperate poverty experienced by even talented and hardworking members of society (Grace Holloway). I am aware of the fictitious nature of the argument, but they do raise valid concerns. Breakdown of moral fiber, class warfare, exploitation of the poor and the failure of the very system it was based on. I.e "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of h is brow?"[/QUOTE]
[I]Bioshock spoilers[/I]
[sp]The game was also a criticism of the state and socialism. Ryan Industries and Andrew Ryan himself were the state. He controlled most of raptures industries and was basically a dictator. Even though he had created Rapture with a stateless and free society in mind his paranoia lead to him isolating Rapture and lead to him even having a secret police that murdered people that opposed him. When he saw Fontaine starting to compete with him he went even further and seized control of his opposition with state force to the uproar of his strongest supporters. Even our perfect incorruptible Andrew Ryan couldn't resist the power of the State. Fontaine saw that Ryan had all of the power and had started the whole civil war to overthrow him manipulating the working class to do so. [/sp]
Yep! Anarcho Communism all the way.
[video=youtube;qnFF5Yj-nSg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnFF5Yj-nSg[/video]
[editline]3rd July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=eurocracy;41293380]What stops people in an anarchous society banding up and seizing land. I mean you could end up with a group of people just taking over somewhere and making it an enforced dictatorship.[/QUOTE]
the other anarchists
Alright, I need some books on anarchism to add to the OP. Any suggestions?
[editline]3rd July 2013[/editline]
Also, MUSIC!
[video=youtube;y0XfNy5XI-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0XfNy5XI-A[/video]
Anarchy doesn't work, there'll always be someone that steps up to take power
[QUOTE=KingArcher;41299596]Anarchy doesn't work, there'll always be someone that steps up to take power[/QUOTE]
Anarchist societies have existed in the past, and worked out fine. Take the anarchist territories in the Spanish revolution or The Free Territory in Ukraine during the Russian revolution for example.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;41293028]I'm a left Libertarian, Aka, i believe in government being more or less dissolved, except Health, Police and Social security services. Unlike Anarchists, i think Humans are inherently assholes. Therefore i believe without the government, we would literally collapse into anarchy. (See what i did there?)
[editline]3rd July 2013[/editline]
Pretty much what Ranger said.[/QUOTE]
If you believe in government run Healthcare and Social Security, then you aren't really a "Libertarian". You're more likely a Social Democrat or a Democratic Socialist since you need a government to make sure that land isn't privatized and to collect the funds to distribute them in Social Security and to Healthcare. Libertarians generally believe in more localized government systems and are fine with things that are basics such as infrastructure as well as the Police, Military and Courts and are for the individual properties rather than the collective properties of the left. You could go much more extreme and become a Minarchist where you believe everything except the Military, Police and Courts are privatized in individual hands before you go full An-Cap which believe that even the basics of government should be removed and privatized.
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